Afterlife: Is There Life After Death?
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"Nope. you get a dirt nap and then you're worm food. I think the concept of an afterlife is just a crutch for people who are afraid of death being an absolute end."
Actually, when I was an unbeliever, I never feared death. I figured that I didn't know anything before I was born so why would I think that there would be any problem after I ceased to exist.? But then, I had an experience, that caused me to fear God. The Bible says, "...the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Not saying that I possess any wisdom other than what I read in Scripture. But I lived my life in a very selfish, stupid and self-destructive way before God reached into the hellish pit that I was in and pulled me out. Were I Him, I can think of a lot of things that would probably have been a better use of His time and energy. But I will be forever grateful.
In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said: ""Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."0 -
Well let's see, back in the day eye witnesses would claim volcanoes were evidence of god's anger. Today we know from science why volcanoes erupt. And that's WELL after.If Islam has a picture of Jesus that is very different from eye-witness accounts in the New Testament, then, considering that the Q'uran was written approximately 600 years after the life of Jesus, which account would I be more likely to consider accurate?
Point is, eye witness testimony is subjective. Which ever one one was exposed to the most is probably the one they will believe.
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But would you believe a person who had never seen a volcano?0 -
"...Kinda hard pressed to deny that biblical scripture doesn't mention being born into sin..."
Yes, we are born in a world that is infected with the contagion of sin and we all sin (except for the One who knew no sin). BUT, we are not born with "Original Sin"---that is a theological concept conceived by men.
Let's just take one of your Scripture passages: "Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
The first thing you need to remember is that the Psalms are beautiful Hebrew poetry and thus there are poetic expressions. If you try to take it very literally, you come upon an absurdity--that the "wicked" speak lies from as soon as they are born. Don't know any newborns that speak at all, let alone speak lies.
You may or may not know that there are some basic rules of interpreting Scripture called hermeneutics. One of the first rules is that you take any passage literally, unless to do so results in an absurdity (such as the commonly cited Jesus' description of Himself as "the Door".0 -
"Would you believe a person who had never seen a volcano?"
Don't even try using logic to debate matters of faith. It is your faith. Not science, not logic, not independently verifiable. To a non-believer, no book claiming to be written by God, no interpetations claiming to be done in spirit, are more legitimate than another.... Until they have faith.
If you guys wanna argue about scripture, you totally hijacked this thread.0 -
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"...Kinda hard pressed to deny that biblical scripture doesn't mention being born into sin..."
Yes, we are born in a world that is infected with the contagion of sin and we all sin (except for the One who knew no sin). BUT, we are not born with "Original Sin"---that is a theological concept conceived by men.
I have to go with ninerbuff on this one.
There is abundant scripture about being born into sin.0 -
"...Kinda hard pressed to deny that biblical scripture doesn't mention being born into sin..."
Yes, we are born in a world that is infected with the contagion of sin and we all sin (except for the One who knew no sin). BUT, we are not born with "Original Sin"---that is a theological concept conceived by men.
I have to go with ninerbuff on this one.
There is abundant scripture about being born into sin.
But there is none that suggests that an infant who dies goes to hell.0 -
"Would you believe a person who had never seen a volcano?"
Don't even try using logic to debate matters of faith. It is your faith. Not science, not logic, not independently verifiable. To a non-believer, no book claiming to be written by God, no interpetations claiming to be done in spirit, are more legitimate than another.... Until they have faith.
If you guys wanna argue about scripture, you totally hijacked this thread.
Well, "yes" and "no" answers can be pretty boring without an exploration of why we believe what we believe. Many of us use Scripture as a basis for our beliefs.0 -
"...Kinda hard pressed to deny that biblical scripture doesn't mention being born into sin..."
Yes, we are born in a world that is infected with the contagion of sin and we all sin (except for the One who knew no sin). BUT, we are not born with "Original Sin"---that is a theological concept conceived by men.
I have to go with ninerbuff on this one.
There is abundant scripture about being born into sin.
But there is none that suggests that an infant who dies goes to hell.
Who is asserting that?0 -
"...Who is asserting that?..."
Perhaps I'm wrong, but that seemed to be Ninerbuff's original objection. He said, something to the effect of, "What about babies and young children who die?"0 -
What of children that die at birth or shortly after? Obviously if one is "born" into sin according to christian belief, then these children can't have received redemption, right?I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now..
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I read it as a question requesting scriptural proof rather than an outright assertion
But only ninerbuff can answer and tell us his intent 0 -
Absolutely!! And where you spend it is the biggest choice of your life.
Yes, we all have choices and no one can make it for you.. But in my view you only have the choice between heaven and hell. Jesus or Satan... Make the right choice..0 -
@ninerbuff: here is a preliminary answer with some scripture references (I still want to do further investigation, especially within my denomination to find out if they agree with the following assertions)
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed on the name of God's one and only Son.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of The Lord and from the majesty of his power
Infants are incapable of not believing or of disobeying the gospel
Matthew 18:14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost
2 Peter 3:9 Not willing that any should perish
God is loving and merciful, with a compassionate heart0 -
"Would you believe a person who had never seen a volcano?"
Don't even try using logic to debate matters of faith. It is your faith. Not science, not logic, not independently verifiable. To a non-believer, no book claiming to be written by God, no interpetations claiming to be done in spirit, are more legitimate than another.... Until they have faith.
If you guys wanna argue about scripture, you totally hijacked this thread.
Well, "yes" and "no" answers can be pretty boring without an exploration of why we believe what we believe. Many of us use Scripture as a basis for our beliefs.
To be quite frank, it's rather boring *with* the explanation, too. And I take offense to how you comment on other's religions or beliefs as if you are the expert....while citing "pride" as a sin in others.
I'm off to celebrate the holy day that today is, leaving ya with one quote to think on:
"Ain't nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."0 -
As a pk, I used to be adamant that there is a life after death. Then, I developed my own life view and now I'm not so sure. If someone finds out for sure (with concrete proof), please let me know.
Just out of curiosity, what would you consider concrete proof? There have been many accounts of people technically dying and then being resuscitated who claim to have seen heaven, hell, dead family members, bright light, God, etc.; but society writes it off as a delusion that is not to be trusted. So if the word of someone who has experienced it is not concrete proof, what is?
I doubt God will let anyone bring back a heavenly donut (the taste is to die for and it has no calories).:laugh:
I'm with you. Great answer, I might ad..0 -
"Would you believe a person who had never seen a volcano?"
Don't even try using logic to debate matters of faith. It is your faith. Not science, not logic, not independently verifiable. To a non-believer, no book claiming to be written by God, no interpetations claiming to be done in spirit, are more legitimate than another.... Until they have faith.
If you guys wanna argue about scripture, you totally hijacked this thread.
Well, "yes" and "no" answers can be pretty boring without an exploration of why we believe what we believe. Many of us use Scripture as a basis for our beliefs.
To be quite frank, it's rather boring *with* the explanation, too. And I take offense to how you comment on other's religions or beliefs as if you are the expert....while citing "pride" as a sin in others.
I'm off to celebrate the holy day that today is, leaving ya with one quote to think on:
"Ain't nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."
Not an "expert"--just know what I believe. It has been my observation that pride is typically a problem with those who are easily offended. Have a nice evening.0 -
Well.. the concept of KARMA says " this is a cycle" .... Soul leaves the body and then enters a new body based upon the good and bad deeds done during the past life ...
So, if you ask your Soul has a life after death.... YES and if its that your BODY, then definitely NO
My understanding of it 0 -
Well.. the concept of KARMA says " this is a cycle" .... Soul leaves the body and then enters a new body based upon the good and bad deeds done during the past life ...
So, if you ask your Soul has a life after death.... YES and if its that your BODY, then definitely NO
My understanding of it
Samsara at it's finest.0 -
Yep. I'm a prideful evil heathen, offended by xenophobia, racism, sexism, and homophobia. You nailed it!
Cue up the death metal!0 -
Yep. I'm a prideful evil heathen, offended by xenophobia, racism, sexism, and homophobia. You nailed it!
Cue up the death metal!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJkMrl4AG8w
You're welcome.0 -
Children have been told that they cannot read the Bible in public school
Really? When? I'm not even being a smart *kitten*. Even as an Agnostic, that pisses me off.
Now, are you saying they can't read it aloud (aka, preach) in school? If so, I'm fine with that. But if they aren't even allowed to possess and read it to themselves, that's just horse****.
I started a Bible club in school which was reluctantly approved. At the time I had documents from the Board of Ed supporting it. The administrators didn't like it even though similar clubs were started by students.
I was asked questions by a student in art class. At the other end of the table, some other students were talking about their nightlife fun. I was being asked about Christianity. Calm conversation - the other person was curious about what I had to say. The teacher told me that "you're not supposed to talk about God in school". Untrue.
Same school, I took a Mythology class. God was discussed, wow! So now it was okay, because this teacher was telling everyone that all religions are myths. This is a religious point of view, and I was allowed to express mine (I was the only one who did). But I was not allowed to do so in Art class.
There are some people in schools that respect students rights to express themselves, and there are some teachers or administrators, that if they do not like your view, they will try to silence you. Btw, I am not talking about disruption. I am talking about times where students are allowed to talk about what they want - but certain viewpoints or religions are singled out.0 -
I'd guess no, sadly. I think the whole concept of life after death is a little too supernatural to be reality. Then again, I think the whole concept of us being here in the first place is a little too supernatural to be reality. Yet, here we are.0
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LOL.... no.... and most of the traditional myths of afterlife sound like horrible fates.0
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I started a Bible club in school which was reluctantly approved. At the time I had documents from the Board of Ed supporting it. The administrators didn't like it even though similar clubs were started by students.
I was asked questions by a student in art class. At the other end of the table, some other students were talking about their nightlife fun. I was being asked about Christianity. Calm conversation - the other person was curious about what I had to say. The teacher told me that "you're not supposed to talk about God in school". Untrue.
Same school, I took a Mythology class. God was discussed, wow! So now it was okay, because this teacher was telling everyone that all religions are myths. This is a religious point of view, and I was allowed to express mine (I was the only one who did). But I was not allowed to do so in Art class.
There are some people in schools that respect students rights to express themselves, and there are some teachers or administrators, that if they do not like your view, they will try to silence you. Btw, I am not talking about disruption. I am talking about times where students are allowed to talk about what they want - but certain viewpoints or religions are singled out.
To me, this is taking the separation of church and state thing a touch too far. If this rule were applied 'globally', members of various faiths wouldn't be able to discuss their beliefs on a bus, because the transit company receives public funding.0 -
yes, yes there is0
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I started a Bible club in school which was reluctantly approved. At the time I had documents from the Board of Ed supporting it. The administrators didn't like it even though similar clubs were started by students.
I was asked questions by a student in art class. At the other end of the table, some other students were talking about their nightlife fun. I was being asked about Christianity. Calm conversation - the other person was curious about what I had to say. The teacher told me that "you're not supposed to talk about God in school". Untrue.
Same school, I took a Mythology class. God was discussed, wow! So now it was okay, because this teacher was telling everyone that all religions are myths. This is a religious point of view, and I was allowed to express mine (I was the only one who did). But I was not allowed to do so in Art class.
There are some people in schools that respect students rights to express themselves, and there are some teachers or administrators, that if they do not like your view, they will try to silence you. Btw, I am not talking about disruption. I am talking about times where students are allowed to talk about what they want - but certain viewpoints or religions are singled out.
To me, this is taking the separation of church and state thing a touch too far. If this rule were applied 'globally', members of various faiths wouldn't be able to discuss their beliefs on a bus, because the transit company receives public funding.
It seemed to me that the Art teacher was threatened by my conversation (doesn't like God or what I was saying I guess- it wasn't even a confrontational part of religion like hell, but something more neutral). The mythology teacher, basically preached against the truth of any religion, but accepted my giving feedback on what I believed - even though it differed with his viewpoint(tolerant). It depends on the attitude of the school official present. and of course I am talking about non-debate-like, friendly conversations. I mean...debate is covered in freedom of speech for *students* (not teachers), but they that never came up. Just conversations during NON instructional time.0 -
To me, this is taking the separation of church and state thing a touch too far. If this rule were applied 'globally', members of various faiths wouldn't be able to discuss their beliefs on a bus, because the transit company receives public funding.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Judicial interpretation of this amendment in recent years has resulted in some rulings that I believe were never intended by Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers.0 -
Can't believe this is still here.0
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Can't believe this is still here.
Really? :laugh:0 -
This discussion has been closed.
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