Vegetarians Live Longer and Healthier
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I don't understand why people love to preach a way of eating as if it's the BEST and the Healthiest.
The last time I heard someone tell me they were Vegetarian or Vegan, I didn't really need them to tell me. I can see it it all over their face. They normally are iron deficient, very tired looking and they have dark circles around their eyes.
And, what's with the sudden love of 7th day Adventists?! lol.. I have a coworker who belongs to that faith and eats a lot like me. She doesn't drink alcohol either. She's a lot heavier than me too. Why? Because she eats A LOT more Rice, Beans, Grains, etc. to satisfy for her hunger. I keep telling her that if she eats a 4oz steak she'll be fuller faster, lol. She manages to take wight off, but it takes a lot more effort than it does for me, because she is very limited to what she eats. She used to eat chicken and goat and beef and lamb, but she turned vegan and the weight came back on very quickly. Carbs essentially turns to sugar, that's why. You can't possibly eat vegetables all day without turning to full-on carb-filled foods to make you full. It's not feasible. Beans can only do so much.
Don't get me wrong, I don't eat meat every single day and I don't think it's healthy to eat it every day. But, I do believe that it's necessary to incorporate animal meat into one's diet for optimal health and diet. I don't believe artery clogging is from eating fatty meat, I believe it's from an overall unhealthy diet. I have three uncles who had quadruple bypass surgeries and years before their surgery they each ate "very healthy" - less meat and more vegetables and rice and bread. Two of those uncle's smoked occasionally, one of them was a total health nut who was against all fatty foods and sugary ones too. My mom and her other brother who don't have heart problems (THANK GOD) have the occasional arthritis pain (very rare, 2x a yr, they're over 65 btw) eat more of a variety of foods, including meat (lamb & chicken & fish mostly, they each don't care for beef as much).
I myself notice a big difference in my body when I try to eat a lot less meat than vegetables. I feel a lot more lazy, fatigued, tired, irritable, depressed, frustrated at the world. Just a small 2oz or 4oz portion of meat makes me a lot more energetic and lively. It's the way God intended us to live (imo).0 -
Why do you all want to talk people out of a vegetarian diet? Do you realize how much meat would cost if more people ate it? It's expensive enough. Shush and leave well enough alone!
Really, I don't recall any meat eaters trying to talk veggies out of eating their veggies. IN FACT I bet every meat eater here also eats some veggies. However I do see veggies trying to make it so we can't eat meat. And that is the ONLY problem I have with vegans. I could care less what someone eats, you could have a diet of grasshopper $^%$ as far as I'm concerned, but don't try to make me eat how you do, and don't look down your holier than thou vegan nose at me either. There is nothing, NOTHING, morally superior about going against human history to abstain from eating meat.
I say let them talk as many people out of being meat eaters as possible. That's just more meat for us!
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I probably should have said first off that I don't have a problem if someone wants to live with a plant based diet. This is their choice and I'm fairly certain they wouldn't stay on it long if it wasn't working well for them.
I, personally, prefer to be an omnivore. It works well for me, and after 50 years of it, I've yet to have a single ill effect.0 -
Really, I don't recall any meat eaters trying to talk veggies out of eating their veggies. IN FACT I bet every meat eater here also eats some veggies. However I do see veggies trying to make it so we can't eat meat. And that is the ONLY problem I have with vegans. I could care less what someone eats, you could have a diet of grasshopper $^%$ as far as I'm concerned, but don't try to make me eat how you do, and don't look down your holier than thou vegan nose at me either. There is nothing, NOTHING, morally superior about going against human history to abstain from eating meat.
:drinker:0 -
This is funny. There are studies and stuff going around about people in Okinawa living the longest, etc. And their diet isn't all veggies. There is quite a bit of fish and meat in there too.
A lot of their pork dishes are amazing! *sighs*
Eat only until 80% full, pay attention to a macrobiotic diet. That's the model for that. There's limited meat and practically no diary. Whole grains, seasonal produce, sea vegetables.
Really? That's not how I remember it..lol. Have you been to Okinawa or Japan? They have dairy and they enjoy their meat dishes quite thoroughly. And there is a lot of it..lmao.
Nowadays Okinawan cuisine is full with fatty pork dishes (and they put that nasty spam/corned beef in every single dish they have), but that's not how they used to eat 30 years ago. That is the diet that's known for the Okinawan people's longevity, the one of 30 or so years ago. Its main characteristics are low caloric intake on a long term basis and limited meat, dairy and rice, not as much fish as in mainland Japan, and plenty of soy products and local vegetables (goya, local varieties of sweet potato). In other words people were poor and ate what was available. Today, Okinawans eat very differently and obesity rates raise fast.
SPAM was introduced to the diets of many south pacific islanders just after WWII, so that's more like 70 years ago, not 30.
Oh boy, that's my bad. The traditional Okinawan diet is of course before the 50s. There was a large study 30 years ago, thus the confusion.0 -
I grew up with a family of Farmers.
I loved the baby pigs.
But I loved their mommas thigh meat better!!!
Has anyone had REAL fresh bacon!?
DROOL....
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Okay - if the canine is proof that we are designed to eat meat. Go out in the woods today - catch yourself a deer with your bare hands and gnaw on it raw. Humans are only opportunistic meat eaters. In the beginning we relied on the leftovers.
Or go out in the woods, grab some berries and gnaw on those. Yep - that is actually possible... how were we designed?
sht a deer this fall had that baby on the table within an hour........backstraps are fantastic......gnawed right thru them bad boys0 -
However, the 3rd tooth from the middle on each side is called a canine. The canine sole function is to grasp and tear meat. Therefore, it is in our basic evolutionary design to eat meat. Herbivores do not have them, because they are designed to be unable to process meat; therefore, they do not need the teeth to tear meat. As humans are omnivores, we have both canines for tearing meat and the flat molars for grinding plant matter.
Have you ever looked at a hippo's canines? They're herbivores and have huge ones!
Hippos huge canines are used as a defense mechanism. They don't have tusks or horns. I don't know about you, but if i get in a fight, i'm not going to try to threaten people with my canines.0 -
Here is what is interesting to me...I have family in Virginia that grew many things, 1 being tobacco, they have smoked and dipped their products since they worked in the fields in grade school, they cooked with lard, ate eggs and bacon EVERY day, not to mention all types of meat. My "Granny" lived to 102, her son, grand-son and great grand son looked like brothers instead of generations. All of them get around like people 20 years younger. Most of the family has lived to over 80 with all the bad habits. This tells me their are other factors that can and do have an afftect on how well you live.0
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This is funny. There are studies and stuff going around about people in Okinawa living the longest, etc. And their diet isn't all veggies. There is quite a bit of fish and meat in there too.
A lot of their pork dishes are amazing! *sighs*
Eat only until 80% full, pay attention to a macrobiotic diet. That's the model for that. There's limited meat and practically no diary. Whole grains, seasonal produce, sea vegetables.
Really? That's not how I remember it..lol. Have you been to Okinawa or Japan? They have dairy and they enjoy their meat dishes quite thoroughly. And there is a lot of it..lmao.
Nowadays Okinawan cuisine is full with fatty pork dishes (and they put that nasty spam/corned beef in every single dish they have), but that's not how they used to eat 30 years ago. That is the diet that's known for the Okinawan people's longevity, the one of 30 or so years ago. Its main characteristics are low caloric intake on a long term basis and limited meat, dairy and rice, not as much fish as in mainland Japan, and plenty of soy products and local vegetables (goya, local varieties of sweet potato). In other words people were poor and ate what was available. Today, Okinawans eat very differently and obesity rates raise fast.
SPAM was introduced to the diets of many south pacific islanders just after WWII, so that's more like 70 years ago, not 30.
Oh boy, that's my bad. The traditional Okinawan diet is of course before the 50s. There was a large study 30 years ago, thus the confusion.
And then there are the Inuit. Perhaps it is worth taking a view of the entire world, rather than selectively picking data sets that fit our own hypotheses.0 -
I'd rather live a shorter life and enjoy meat than live a longer one without it.
I could never give up my bacon. I could give up all red meat but I love my bacon. I've been known to order a veggie burger with bacon before. So I'll take a shorter life if it means I can still eat bacon!!
Bacon's not meat, anyway. It's a condiment
I thought bacon was meat candy?0 -
My problem with most of these types of articles is this -
Meet Bob. Bob runs everyday for 5 miles. Bob enjoys playing basketball with his great grandchildren. Bob golfs at least 2 times a week. Bob is more than twice as active as most 20 year olds. Bob is 137 years old today. And Bob eats 1 twinkie every day. Bob's heart attack rate is 1/100th that of an average 400 lbs couch potato.
Who knew twinkies were the fountain of youth!0 -
Ok, I read through the first two pages completely and I made sure to visit all the studies that were presented. The first link to the Atlantic only pointed to one research paper which did not come to the conclusion that Vegetarians lived longer. The main source of that claim was a book which since it is a for-profit book without knowing the sources I don't believe the claims to be true. As someone who has done some data manipulation it is very easy to make the results look how you want them to end up. It is a documented observation called "Confirmation Bias" [1] and sometimes called "Researcher Bias."
I read through the other research papers and they all seem to point to one general conclusion that you could draw. A healthy diet with plenty of vegetables is ideal for living a longer life. But you can not draw the conclusion that meat is the cause of the life span decrease. To ideally test this you should have newborn identical twins raised in the same environment and have their diets be the only difference, one balanced vegetarian and one balanced with meat.
But you can't really do that so we take these studies and the populations that we accumulate for them do lean certain ways. What about the vegetarian that eats processed foods that are marketed as "healthy" compared to the person who eats a balanced diet of organic foods that include meat?
However this is just my opinion from the research that was presented, I am not a professional in any of the fields related to this, just a developer that likes to look at data sets and see what I can draw from them.
[1] General Overview, links to the studies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
[edit] Fixed some spelling mistakes.0 -
How many of you kill your own food?
I do. For about 60% of our meat.0 -
I'll throw some fuel on the fire...
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I have been a vegetarian for most of my life (turned vegan recently). I have regular blood work done and I am not deficient in ANYTHING! My blood pressure is great, blood sugar also. I also look a hell of a lot younger than my friends who are the same age as me (32). I have never been very ill and have never had the flu.
Coincidence?
I've eaten meat for over 60 years and have perfect blood work and blood sugar too. Have no idea if I look younger than my peers. Also I seldom get sick, can't even remember when I last had a cold or flu. My only health problems, other than being overweight, are bad joints and I credit that to overuse when younger. Coincidence?
I'm 50, I've eaten a lot of crap, along with both meat and veg, for most of my life. Heck I managed to get over 400lbs on it. and you know what? My blood work is great, blood sugar, too. I am frequently told that I look younger than my age. I do get mild colds but I haven't had the flu in years.
take what you want from this, but I just get that diet isn't the full story on health issues.0 -
Hi Pangui,I found this article to be encouraging, affirming and inspirational. I am so glad I adopted a plant-based diet. Hopefully, I too, can avoid the lifestyle diseases (coronary artery disease, type II diabetes, stroke, most cancers, alzheimers, and obesity) caused by the Standard American Diet.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/the-lovely-hill-where-people-live-longer-and-happier/272798/
"The death rate from cancer for Adventist men is 60 percent lower than that of the average California male; for Adventist women, it is 75 percent lower. According to Loma Linda University, ground zero in the Adventist Health Studies, "Death from coronary heart disease among Adventist men was 66 percent [lower compared to their California peers]; for Adventist women, it was 98 percent [lower]. Stroke death rates for Adventist men were 72 percent [lower], compared to their non-Adventist counterparts. For Adventist women, death from stroke was 82 percent [lower]."
Thanks for the article. Personally, I am very nearly vegetarian, having returned to a plant-based diet after about 25 years of meat eating. I am not strict but most of my meals during the week are vegetarian.
I think its great and more people should adopt a well-balanced vegetarian diet.
Having said that, I don't think there is a direct correlation between vegetarianism and better health. I have witnessed some people with eating disorders masking their condition as vegetarianism or veganism.
kind regards,
Ben
Hi Ben,
You make a very good point and one that I would like to emphasize. This isn't about being "vegetarian" or "vegan". It's about eating healthier. I spent 14 years as a vegetarian/pescatarian and I was morbidly obese and my health was declining. Cheeses, fake cheeses, pre-packaged meals, fake meat products and artifical subsitutes does not constitute a healthy diet. What I am learning is that the closer we eat our food to its natural state, particularly plant foods, the better our bodies can utilize those nutrients. Foods like fruits, vegetables, starches, whole grains, nuts, seeds are delicious, satisfying and health promoting. While longevity may be a nice plus, the true benefit is feeling better every moment that we do have (quality versus quantity). I definitely feel at least 15 years younger than I did before I started eating better and the benefits were realized long before the weight came off. I love having lots of energy that I never had before.0 -
How many of you kill your own food?
I do. For about 60% of our meat.
I have watched someone kill my food in front of me and I will kill and butcher my own food if given a chance.
Not because I want to. I don't, I'm a big animal lover and I have been a vegetarian and would be a vegetarian again if I thought I could be one and maintain a healthy weight. I'd still do my own killing though, every day if need be, because it would make me more mindful of my eating and less likely to eat for enjoyment and not for necessity.
I'm also willing to bet I'd eat more eggs and less beef if the choice was kill Bessie today or go into the hen house and steal some eggs from the chickens. And that's saying something, since I'm very sick of eggs.
But it wouldn't make me a vegetarian again. If it's the animal vs my health and happiness, sorry, the animal is going to lose.0 -
I'm kind of fascinated that most cancers are considered a 'lifestyle" disease. I'm pretty certain our oncologist will be interested to hear it.
Yes. It is unfortunate that most medical professionals aren't taught much about nutrition in medical school. There are even quite a few heart surgeons who don't realize that coronary artery disease can be reversed by diet. Doctors may be experts in what they do on a day to day basis, but that doesn't make them nutritional experts. Fortunately, there are many doctors who are aware of the role food plays in disease prevention and control. Some are working to change the rules so that doctors may learn about nutrition in medical school.0 -
I'm kind of fascinated that most cancers are considered a 'lifestyle" disease. I'm pretty certain our oncologist will be interested to hear it.
Yes. It is unfortunate that most medical professionals aren't taught much about nutrition in medical school. There are even quite a few heart surgeons who don't realize that coronary artery disease can be reversed by diet. Doctors may be experts in what they do on a day to day basis, but that doesn't make them nutritional experts. Fortunately, there are many doctors who are aware of the role food plays in disease prevention and control. Some are working to change the rules so that doctors may learn about nutrition in medical school.
Nice way to dismiss what I said.
Certainly nutrition does impact disease, but to suggest that most cancers are 'lifestyle' diseases is at best simplistic, at worst, misleading.
And, just for the record, the oncologists I deal with also happen to be leading researchers in their fields at different major centers in the US, and they do actually support a holistic approach to healing, along with the formal accredited medical side.
Simply put, since I am a layman and not a researcher or even a college grad, there is a standing belief that there are many factors which will cause a person to get cancer (any cancer), some are known, most are not.0 -
I'm kind of fascinated that most cancers are considered a 'lifestyle" disease. I'm pretty certain our oncologist will be interested to hear it.
Yes. It is unfortunate that most medical professionals aren't taught much about nutrition in medical school. There are even quite a few heart surgeons who don't realize that coronary artery disease can be reversed by diet. Doctors may be experts in what they do on a day to day basis, but that doesn't make them nutritional experts. Fortunately, there are many doctors who are aware of the role food plays in disease prevention and control. Some are working to change the rules so that doctors may learn about nutrition in medical school.
Nice way to dismiss what I said.
Certainly nutrition does impact disease, but to suggest that most cancers are 'lifestyle' diseases is at best simplistic, at worst, misleading.
And, just for the record, the oncologists I deal with also happen to be leading researchers in their fields at different major centers in the US, and they do actually support a holistic approach to healing, along with the formal accredited medical side.
Simply put, since I am a layman and not a researcher or even a college grad, there is a standing belief that there are many factors which will cause a person to get cancer (any cancer), some are known, most are not.
Oh! I finally see what you are referring to. In my original post, I did refer to "most" cancers as being lifestyle diseases. I guess what I really meant was that the most common varieties of cancer (breast, prostate, colon, endometrial) are largely affected by diet far more than by genetics. Decades of research is now fairly conclusive that what we eat affects the development and growth rate of cancer. Clearly, cancer is far more complicated than that and eating a plant-based diet offers no guarantees, but the research is compelling enough to suggest in many instances that proper nutrition can be equally as effective as conventional treatment. Statistically, ones odds of developing these more common varieties diminishes significantly on a plant-based diet.0 -
Clearly, cancer is far more complicated than that and eating a plant-based diet offers no guarantees, but the research is compelling enough to suggest in many instances that proper nutrition can be equally as effective as conventional treatment.
Posting that kind of claim in a 'Vegetarians Live Longer and Healthier' thread is INCREDIBLY misleading. That has a LOT more to do with eating a balanced diet than if you'll eat a burger or not.0 -
I'll throw some fuel on the fire...
I'll see your Nigella Lawson and raise you 70 year old vegan Annette Larkins.....
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Do we really need another one of these threads? They never end well...
Or eat it already
If one has recently visited a UK BK they already have.0 -
I'm kind of fascinated that most cancers are considered a 'lifestyle" disease. I'm pretty certain our oncologist will be interested to hear it.
Yes. It is unfortunate that most medical professionals aren't taught much about nutrition in medical school. There are even quite a few heart surgeons who don't realize that coronary artery disease can be reversed by diet. Doctors may be experts in what they do on a day to day basis, but that doesn't make them nutritional experts. Fortunately, there are many doctors who are aware of the role food plays in disease prevention and control. Some are working to change the rules so that doctors may learn about nutrition in medical school.
Nice way to dismiss what I said.
Certainly nutrition does impact disease, but to suggest that most cancers are 'lifestyle' diseases is at best simplistic, at worst, misleading.
And, just for the record, the oncologists I deal with also happen to be leading researchers in their fields at different major centers in the US, and they do actually support a holistic approach to healing, along with the formal accredited medical side.
Simply put, since I am a layman and not a researcher or even a college grad, there is a standing belief that there are many factors which will cause a person to get cancer (any cancer), some are known, most are not.
Oh! I finally see what you are referring to. In my original post, I did refer to "most" cancers as being lifestyle diseases. I guess what I really meant was that the most common varieties of cancer (breast, prostate, colon, endometrial) are largely affected by diet far more than by genetics. Decades of research is now fairly conclusive that what we eat affects the development and growth rate of cancer. Clearly, cancer is far more complicated than that and eating a plant-based diet offers no guarantees, but the research is compelling enough to suggest in many instances that proper nutrition can be equally as effective as conventional treatment. Statistically, ones odds of developing these more common varieties diminishes significantly on a plant-based diet.
no. No. And no. There is no such proof. There are theories. It is not 100% fact. It also sounds like somebody watched a documentary.0 -
no. No. And no. There is no such proof. There are theories. It is not 100% fact. It also sounds like somebody watched a documentary.
A theory is when someone has developed a hypothesis, which has been tested many, many times, and is unable to be disproved. Therefore, it becomes a theory. Such as Newton's Theory of Relativity.
Sorry, pet peeve. People saying "It's only a theory" raises my scientific hackles.0 -
An intellectual argument here is impossible. If you refuse to look at the collective scientific evidence, and focus on one article out of a magazine, then there is nothing left to discuss.0
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life without bacon is not a life lived.0
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I found this article to be encouraging, affirming and inspirational. I am so glad I adopted a plant-based diet. Hopefully, I too, can avoid the lifestyle diseases (coronary artery disease, type II diabetes, stroke, most cancers, alzheimers, and obesity) caused by the Standard American Diet.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/02/the-lovely-hill-where-people-live-longer-and-happier/272798/
"The death rate from cancer for Adventist men is 60 percent lower than that of the average California male; for Adventist women, it is 75 percent lower. According to Loma Linda University, ground zero in the Adventist Health Studies, "Death from coronary heart disease among Adventist men was 66 percent [lower compared to their California peers]; for Adventist women, it was 98 percent [lower]. Stroke death rates for Adventist men were 72 percent [lower], compared to their non-Adventist counterparts. For Adventist women, death from stroke was 82 percent [lower]."
Just because it's on the internet deoes not mean it's true.. most vegetarians do not get enough protein in their diets0
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