When do squats start becoming effecive?

bubbanene

dont think sunlover could handle 330

jelr

there is no need to barbell squat you can get great workout with goblet squats plus easier to keep good form

Good to know this. Can you tell, though, where I can get a 330 lb dumbbell?

Most gyms keep dumbbells atleast 100lbs-150lbs so you could hit around 300 easily with dumbbells at a well stocked gym. I don't think the OP is in need of that kind of weight yet however.

All_Out_Attack

Omg...you need to stop taking creatine. You are not using a solid lifting program and creatine is, at best, a waste of money.

Look into new rules of lifting for women, strong lifts, etc

I agree with the previous poster that you need to work on using a barbell.

In general, if you are looking for better results, you need to "push yourself to do more"

Why should she stop taking creatine? Do you understand how beneficial creatine is for lifters?
http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/3562/the-ultimate-guide-to-creatine-supplementation-part-1/

Moreover, c4 has a very low amount of creatine in it... something like 1 or 2 grams, maybe? I take 20G daily, divided.

OP: start looking at why you feel unbalanced. Wide-legged squats are fine (I do extra-wide stance box squats as an aux lift) but you need to figure out why you feel so off-balance and try to correct that. Maybe you need to strengthen the muscles around your knees? I tore the meniscus in my right knee last year and started doing a lot more hamstring work and my squat has improved greatly. That's one of the wonderful things about lifting... if something is wrong with your body, you can fix it!

Are you falling to one side, or forward? or backward? Are you wearing very flat shoes? Cross-trainer type shoes that elevate your heel can kind of push you forward. Trying going barefoot and see if that helps. If so, you can try getting a pair of Chuck Taylors or wrestling shoes. Or you might have the barbell too high, which would push you forward, too.

Hope this helps!

^ reposting more to back him up about the creatine - there is hardly any in cellucor c4, why do people think its so dangerous - I don't get it.

I know creatine is good for lifters...and baseball player, etc. There is 1g of creatine in c4 extreme. I do not know anything about how much is recommended and how much is too much. My point was that the OP does not have a good lifting routine at 3x20 and "not feeling anything", so it does not matter what supplements you take...

the advice about sourcing the problem and wearing the right shoes is very good advice.

1) I'm a girl!
2) Thank you for clarifying, and I agree with your point. There's no use taking a supp if you're not doing what it is it's supposed to enhance.

dave4d

there is no need to barbell squat you can get great workout with goblet squats plus easier to keep good form

Good to know this. Can you tell, though, where I can get a 330 lb dumbbell?

Most gyms keep dumbbells atleast 100lbs-150lbs so you could hit around 300 easily with dumbbells at a well stocked gym. I don't think the OP is in need of that kind of weight yet however.

The biggest problem with dumbbells is having enough grip strength to challenge your quads, glutes, and hamstrings in the same way you can do it with barbell back squats.

It also brings back the issue of: "What's the difference between a dumbbell squat that starts from the ground, and a dumbbell dead lift that starts from the ground?"

dondimitri

"I don't feel an ache because I take a pre workout supplement which disables the burn."

ummmm, ok.

Is it possible you don't feel a burn because you're not working out hard enough to feel one?

jelr

there is no need to barbell squat you can get great workout with goblet squats plus easier to keep good form

Good to know this. Can you tell, though, where I can get a 330 lb dumbbell?

Most gyms keep dumbbells atleast 100lbs-150lbs so you could hit around 300 easily with dumbbells at a well stocked gym. I don't think the OP is in need of that kind of weight yet however.

The biggest problem with dumbbells is having enough grip strength to challenge your quads, glutes, and hamstrings in the same way you can do it with barbell back squats.

It also brings back the issue of: "What's the difference between a dumbbell squat that starts from the ground, and a dumbbell dead lift that starts from the ground?"

Not disagreeing with your point here. I said this only because the person I was replying to seemed to suggest one cannot lift heavy with dumbbells. Whether it is dumbbells or barbell regardless a deadlift is a deadlift. I figure perhaps something like this would still help with adjusting to balance up to use of a barbell over time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24PeqytTtq4 with weight versus hugging a plate. It's alot more similar using dumbbells in this way than hugging a plate as OP stated doing goblet squats. It is not a perfect option but it is an option that perhaps the OP should try. I can see more limits on lifting heavier holding a plate as it will get difficult to just hold a heavy/bulky plate much less stacking enough plate weight in this manner (ie holding multiple plates at once without a bar). Also there are kettlebells which work well for goblet squats but I find some gyms to be lacking in the kettlebell equipment ranges.

I do think perhaps there is a possible form issue and OP should seek out a different trainer to assist her in the use of a barbell if that's her goal if her current trainer at the gym doesn't want to work with her on it.

nz_deevaa

What shoes are you wearing while squatting?

If you are squatting in 'running' style shoes with cushioning in the heal, it can cause instability when squatting.

Try squatting with the bar either shoe-less or in shoes with no 'give' in the heal.

Squats will start becoming effective when you start doing them effectively.

aelunyu

There's something to be said about the nature of the squat. When done correctly, it is a huge compound movement. The bottom portion is all glutes/hams, then lower back, then the hips will fire, and eventually the quads. I believe there is no greater full body movement to perform than the lowbar squat.

Why the back squat is good, is because it helps to develop stabilizers in the hips, erectors, and core for a more complete compound movement that is good for the kinetic chain. If you're holding 10kg weights, you are basically bottlenecking your legs' ability to work by restricting the amount of weight they have to bear. The back squat ensures that the stress will be on mid to lower body, and you will have an effective squat.

Keys to a good squat have always been the same....regardless of stance. The knees will track towards the toes, the chest will flare, shoulders will pinch, and there will be a fair amount of hip drive. Heels must stay glued to the floor, and the glutes will act in accordance with the hips to "straighten out" the torso.

An effective squat is a very hard thing to learn...but I'm sure with some practice, you will achieve it!

bdamaster60

I do squats 4 times a week. I do them wide legged and butt to floor, and hold a 10kg plate as my balance is bad with a barbell. I do 3 x 20. Do you think this is enough to have an effect on glutes? I also do dead lifts and leg presses for lower body strength training. I don't feel an ache because I take a pre workout supplement which disables the burn. Should I push myself to do more?

What pre-workout are you taking??

Just what I was wondering.

I take Cellulor C4. I have to do it wide legged because I have a mild case knock knees and I have bad balance. The only pain/discomfort I feel after workouts is in my shoulders/upper arms. I increased my leg press yesterday from 79kg to 141kg and still feel nothing ;-/
When I hold the plate, it feels like it's not making the squat any harder...I squat with it, lift it above my head and repeat..I was doing this mainly to keep my heart rate elevated while lifting - i realise I'm working my arms and shoulders more with this move. I really can't use a barbell, I tried again yesterday and ended up just falling over with it unloaded! Is there a way I can heavily weight my squats without a barbel?

Omg...you need to stop taking creatine. You are not using a solid lifting program and creatine is, at best, a waste of money.

Look into new rules of lifting for women, strong lifts, etc

I agree with the previous poster that you need to work on using a barbell.

In general, if you are looking for better results, you need to "push yourself to do more"

creatine is the most research product on the market out of all the fitness supplements. It is not necesary but is definately not a waste of money.

To the previous poster. Try front squats, it sounds like you have troubl keeping balance while back squatting due to a possible imbalance in the hips or thoracic kyphosis. The corrective nature of the front squat will over time will re-align any hyper lordosis and any imbalances in the scapular region.

bdamaster60

"I don't feel an ache because I take a pre workout supplement which disables the burn."

ummmm, ok.

Is it possible you don't feel a burn because you're not working out hard enough to feel one?

beta alanine found in most pre-workout supps has been shown to slow down the release of lactic acid. google it.

neandermagnon

Are you working to failure? You could consider upping the weight and lowering the number of reps (3 sets of 6-10 reps for example). Even doing this one or two day a week could help. It's not neccessarily about volume but intensity is important

^^^^ this

Mock_Turtle

If you insist on not using the barbell, then look up "goblet squats". You use a dumbell for these rather than plates, which will make it easy to incrementally add the weight. They hit a bit differently than a barbell squat but trust me, if you find a weight that the 8th rep is a struggle, 3 sets of these will give you a great workout.

Like others have said, find something that after 6-8 reps you are strugglin'. F that 20 reps stuff.

aelunyu

I front squat fine. The bar situates above center of gravity which is what is most important in squatting. Front squats generally force heavier glute contractions, though lowbar induces much heavier overall recruitment of muscle in the lower back. The hardest thing for front squatting is to get elbows in the right place. To teach the squat, back squat is a much more appropriate place to start. And we have to admit that it is paramount to kinetic chain conditioning.

bubbanene

chuch taylors work great for me

bubbanene

many years ago (late 70s) when kettlebells had their first boom, we had a coach that used them while facing(very close) a wall to teach good form for the squat now that i am older they seem to do the job on their own

jimmie65

Not disagreeing with your point here. I said this only because the person I was replying to seemed to suggest one cannot lift heavy with dumbbells. Whether it is dumbbells or barbell regardless a deadlift is a deadlift. I figure perhaps something like this would still help with adjusting to balance up to use of a barbell over time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24PeqytTtq4 with weight versus hugging a plate. It's alot more similar using dumbbells in this way than hugging a plate as OP stated doing goblet squats. It is not a perfect option but it is an option that perhaps the OP should try. I can see more limits on lifting heavier holding a plate as it will get difficult to just hold a heavy/bulky plate much less stacking enough plate weight in this manner (ie holding multiple plates at once without a bar). Also there are kettlebells which work well for goblet squats but I find some gyms to be lacking in the kettlebell equipment ranges.

I do think perhaps there is a possible form issue and OP should seek out a different trainer to assist her in the use of a barbell if that's her goal if her current trainer at the gym doesn't want to work with her on it.

You can't squat as heavy with dumbbells. My remark was in response to a comment about goblet squats - holding 1 dumbbell with both hands and squatting. Dumbbells just don't come heavy enough.
As for using 2 dumbbells, holding 2 dumbbells that heavy by your side changes the movement; the limiting factor becomes your grip.

Goblet and dumbbell squats have their place. But they are not adequate replacements for a heavy barbell squat.

ArroganceInStep

Thanks for the advice :-) I do feel it after 3 sets of 20, just not as much as my shoulders do! I think I'm just not lifting heavy enough with the squats, as I do feel it with my dead lifts. The 141 kgs does feel like hard work, I was puffing and sweating like crazy, but it just doesn't hurt..although now from what I've read, pain isn't always an indicator of a good workout.

I also do want to keep trying with the barbell squats, but the trainer who is generally around at the time is an *kitten*. I might seek out another friendly face and get them to help me balance and check out my form. Perseverance!

This clarifies things a bit. You're holding a plate, that's basically a front squat. Generally speaking, your upper body will give out before your lower body when you're front squatting (they're still a great exercise though).

Maybe try these? http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBHackSquat.html

When working your back squat, you don't NEED a trainer. It helps, but if you don't like the person don't. Take your phone or something and take a video of yourself doing the movement, then either post it online for review or compare it with other squat videos. Obviously stay VERY light while you're doing this.

Another suggestion I'll make is increasing the number of sets you do and working to make each set more explosive. Lets say you're leg pressing 3 sets of 20 right now and each set takes about a minute and a half to complete (~4.5 seconds per rep). If you're not feeling sore after (there's a difference betwen soreness and pain mind you, sore is just a feeling like you really worked hard, you can feel the muscles you hit, and you don't think you could do much more of that type of lift; pain is pain), try 6 sets of 20, or 10 sets of 12. Also try to shorten the amount of time it takes to complete your sets, instead of averaging 4.5 seconds a rep, try to average 3.5 seconds a rep. You don't do this by speeding through the negative, but by exploding through the concentric portion of the lift (the press part). If you start running out of time for your workout because of the added sets, limit your rest time between sets to 30 seconds to a minute.

KarenJanine

If you're feeling the squats in your shoulders more than your legs/glutes then I would suggest working on your form as you may be rounding your shoulders and lifting the weight with you upper body rather than pushing down into your heels and squeezing up through your legs/glutes while keeping your shoulders back and back straight.

As others have said I would recommend using more weight and lower reps and maybe try working on your balance with the barbell alone with no added weight. Try varying your stance to see if it helps your balance, everyone is different.

da_bears10089

I don't know if anyone suggested this at all, but something that could help is not using runners for your barbell squats. Best is barefoot, but i wouldn't do that at the gym. So anything that has a flat sole or those vibram fivefingers. The curves in your shoes can make a huge difference when it comes to balance while squatting or lifting in general.

Bbells89

bump