Broscience

upgetupgetup

As always, it's important to remember: Correlation =/= Causation

Well, exactly... it's easy enough to find holes in even the best-controlled studies, and near impossible to work out if practice x was caused result y in the messy real world (or if it was practice x + practices q + w). And given how much more complex the body is than we thought even fifteen years ago (fat is hormonal, there are different kinds, it's not inert tissue you can just suck out with a tube and expect to stay away, etc etc) makes speculating on the actual reasons for effects, without a sound grounding in research, really, idk, just wild I guess. (Not that I have a 'sound grounding' in research, at all.)

No, you can't necessarily extrapolate from one population to another, but a convincing study (even a small one) can offer a good avenue for further exploration.

But the trial and error of successful people should be respected and investigated too.

Matt_Wild

I'm not sure why the linkheads on this site wish to create this false dichotomy where if you've done it, you didn't read it. but if you've read it, it's the same as having done it. I've read it, I've done it. I can give you my best advice on how to do it, or I can post links that most people won't read and even fewer will understand.

I agree with this - it happens time and time again.

For me someone who combines both aspects is more likely to get the time from me in terms of understanding their knowledge and perhaps theories.

Yes, you can lift all you want and you may be lucky and get big (if thats your goal) but it doesn't mean your methods were what you think they were in terms of why you gained your size.

However the reverse applies - just because you've read a book/study and think you understand means you can tell everyone else they are wrong.

Sitting in the middle someone who has backgrounds to both is most likely to get more time from me.

bostonwolf

I think the Earth is round and I have heard it revolves around the Sun. Still not sure though....looking for valid references.

Watch a ship go over the horizon. Notice how it disappears from the bottom first, then the top? First question proven.

Watch the sun set. Then watch it rise the next day. Second question proven.

Try again.

Making your observations match your theory, that's broscience dude!



The earth is not round.... It's an ellipsoid.

Observation matching hypothesis is broscience?

And to anyone standing on the ground or even observing with scientific intruments, Earth is so close to spherical that in practical terms it does not matter. Technically speaking our orbit round the sun is elliptical too. If viewing it from above the plan of the elliptic, you'd have a lot of trouble telling it wasn't round without taking precise measurements.

K_Serz

You have a link for your evidence. I have a 500 pound squat for mine. The link wins.

Got it, thanks.

A lot of guys have achieved a 500-pound squat. Squatting 500 doesn't mean you're a special snowflake or that all of your opinions are true.

George Burns lived to 100, and he smoked like a chimney. The broscience equivalent would be him, at 99, saying "everyone should smoke and drink all day. You have a link to all your science about smoking and drinking, I have the fact that I lived to be 99 years old. The science wins. Got it."

Maybe everyone should smoke and drink all day? Just havent received funding yet to perform the study yet to support it. Thats all.

upgetupgetup

As someone with a scientific background, I'll admit I take a certain umbrage when I read statements such as "research can be made to say anything you want" that are made in such a way as to dismiss all research or to dismiss any evidence that contradicts the person's preexisting beliefs. When I read a statement like that, my first response is "well, then you don't know how to read or understand the literature".

I think the attitude you describe speaks more to psychology than kinesiology or sports science

Agree with everything you've said.

Mr_Excitement

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd watch Bro Science if it was a show on the Science Channel.

jonnythan

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

jayche

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd watch Bro Science if it was a show on the Science Channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXO2azb3_PE

jonnythan

I agree with this - it happens time and time again.

For me someone who combines both aspects is more likely to get the time from me in terms of understanding their knowledge and perhaps theories.

Yes, you can lift all you want and you may be lucky and get big (if thats your goal) but it doesn't mean your methods were what you think they were in terms of why you gained your size.

However the reverse applies - just because you've read a book/study and think you understand means you can tell everyone else they are wrong.

Sitting in the middle someone who has backgrounds to both is most likely to get more time from me.

I absolutely agree with this, and that's why I read research as well as listen to people who have been there/done that.

Somehow this thread got extremely confused. "Broscience" doesn't mean "wisdom from experienced people." It means "claims that have no evidence or are contrary to evidence."

I don't think a single person in this thread is saying that we should get all our information from Pubmed and completely ignore people with years or decades of experience. That would be stupid beyond belief.

Some of the posters in this thread are fighting a war with an imaginary enemy.

AngryDiet

I have a Masters Degree in Broscientological Studies.

DavPul

I'll also note that the OP is an employee of a supplement company.

He therefore has financial incentive in promoting products and methods that do not necessarily have any evidentiary basis whatsoever. He also has a financial incentive to be big, because it helps him sell/promote the company's product.

I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions.

Yes, the OP is a bodybuilding professional but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. He takes time out of his day to offer advice to people that are seeking it and every time I see him around the boards he is respectful, courteous, and generous with his time, which are 3 things no one is going to accuse me of. To question his integrity based on how he earns his living is patently absurd. His post wasn't about pimping his sponsor's products. He was simply stating how it's come to the point where people don't accept information unless it's linked to a study that was conducted last the day before yesterday.

This was a personal attack that was way out of line. It's really unfair because your credentials can't be questioned, since you don't have any at all.

K_Serz

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Well I guess some people do. And that is sad. So I guess Broscience is. Damn I ate Monster Thickburgers all week long and after I ate one each time I felt so horrible. At the end of the week I gained 5lbs and 1% body fat. I also lost 25 lbs on my squat. But Im still not convinced that food is bad because there hasnt been any scientific evidence yet to prove it.

I guess the same people need warning labels that say "This Coffee Is Hot" before they drink it also.

concordancia

I thought it was just a new term for old wives' tales.

I think my favorite version is when folks cite unrelated statistics and draw illogical conclusions from them. Then, when people ask or citations, they link to each of the individual statistics, as if that proved some kind of correlation which in turn proved causation. Double fallacy win!

DoneBroughtSexyBack

You can find anything you want by conducting a study. All it takes is the right test pool and you've got yourself the results you are looking for. It doesn't matter what one "study" says because 99.9% of the time you will find a "study" that claims something completely different to be true... The only constant about science, is it is always being proven wrong by itself.

Mr_Excitement

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd watch Bro Science if it was a show on the Science Channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXO2azb3_PE

"Brotege", LMAO.

It was worth watching for that word alone.

jonnythan

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us?

Well, yes, if you want to lay out a blanket statement that anything from any fast food company is bad for you, even if fits into your calorie, protein, and fat goals for the day.

Yeah, eating 3000 calories of hamburgers every day is bad for you. But that doesn't mean having one hamburger is bad for you.

Mr_Excitement

You can find anything you want by conducting a study. All it takes is the right test pool and you've got yourself the results you are looking for. It doesn't matter what one "study" says because 99.9% of the time you will find a "study" that claims something completely different to be true... The only constant about science, is it is always being proven wrong by itself.

If you're doing it right, your results can be tested and verified. The fitness industry is chock full of "studies" that are little more than marketing gimmicks, as you say, with methodology that is stacked to give the results the manufacturers want-- but it's just crap science. You can't make good science say anything you want.

K_Serz

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us?

Well, yes, if you want to lay out a blanket statement that anything from any fast food company is bad for you, even if fits into your calorie, protein, and fat goals for the day.

Yeah, eating 3000 calories of hamburgers every day is bad for you. But that doesn't mean having one hamburger is bad for you.

Is it? No way, what you are saying here is Broscience. Where are your studies to show this?

_noob_

it's common knowledge that anybody who benches over 200, squats over 300 and deadlifts 300+ is on gear and the drugs do all the work for them.

Hezzietiger1

I've seen some pretty legit stuff on here get termed, "broscience". That's the main reason I stay clear of commenting. You would think after losing 70 lbs, going from 46% bodyfat to 29% and getting my health cholesterol and sugar under control that I would know a little about a 30 year old overweight woman attempting to lose weight and fat, build muscle and increase fitness. However, according to a few jerk individuals on these forums, the fact that I am now a certified pt, worked with 2 trainers, am dating a chiropractor/power lifter and have read 100's of scholarly studies on my own means absolutely nothing.

According to most people here.. u only need to lift heavy- whether u have lifting experience or not, regardless if your stability and endurance can handle it, and nothing else factors in. According to most people here- what you eat doesn't matter as long as u stay under your tdee to lose weight and keep your protein at 1 gram per lb of lean body weight. According to most people here you can't gain muscle unless you eat over your calories.

So all of this ^^^^ true in circumstances and with certain individuals but not true for everyone. So why are we so quick to discredit people with results b/c how we did it was different?? People here are so rude. But hey, I can put the knowledge I worked hard for here for them, or I can share it with friends and family, and clients who know me, my results and respect it.

Just my thoughts.

Ramberta

the science that tells us that eating fast food is horrible for our bodies.

Got a link to the study that says a flour tortilla that has some ground beef, lettuce, and processed cheese in it is "horrible for our bodies"?

i had fast food yesterday. it was so good!

I had fast food this weekend as well, but I don't lie to myself about what kind of crap I'm eating and how good or bad it is for me.

i get that, but lets be honest. unlest your amish eating off your own farm, pretty much everything we eat is crap. fruits and veggies are gown with chemicals to make them ripen faster for sale, poisons sprayed all over them to detour bugs, meat is full of hormones... there is nothing pure and natural anymore unless your growing it or raising it yourself. wether i eat a fast food burrito or a homemade burrito, chances are, im going to eventually die of cancer or in a car accident. untill then... all i can do cross my fingers and watch my calories..

^Kinda sad but very true! Haha. Of course I aim to eat "healthy" more often than "unhealthy" but it's not like we can just all have our own personal farms and generate everything we need to eat and have it be 100% organic AND affordable. Fortunately though, our systems have evolved to filter out some of that processed crap and still keep us functioning fine

K_Serz

So all of this ^^^^ true in circumstances and with certain individuals but not true for everyone. So why are we so quick to discredit people with results b/c how we did it was different?? People here are so rude.

Because it conflicts with what they believe what it takes to be successful. Because obviously theres only 1 way to succeed and thats THEIR way. I love your post. In fact I love all posts where people use their own individual personal success stories.

Earlier in this thread someone commented on trainers using Broscience and I was like ummmmm yeah. Okay, I guess you dont need to be certified to be a trainer anymore? Seems legit.

But hey, I can put the knowledge I worked hard for here for them, or I can share it with friends and family, and clients who know me, my results and respect it.
Just my thoughts.

^^Please keep doing this right there. There will always continue to be naysayers and its their way or nothing.

eric_sg61

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

K_Serz

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

I guess you didnt see the shirt he was working out in? This was paid for and sponsored by MCDONALDS. LMAO

I also dont recall Morgan Spurlock working out once during his 30 days.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117412391&page=1

Perfect post for the Broscience topic and Fast Food Hypotheses

Azdak

You can find anything you want by conducting a study. All it takes is the right test pool and you've got yourself the results you are looking for. It doesn't matter what one "study" says because 99.9% of the time you will find a "study" that claims something completely different to be true... The only constant about science, is it is always being proven wrong by itself.

If you're doing it right, your results can be tested and verified. The fitness industry is chock full of "studies" that are little more than marketing gimmicks, as you say, with methodology that is stacked to give the results the manufacturers want-- but it's just crap science. You can't make good science say anything you want.

At some point, critical thinking is not an unreasonable requirement. I am consistently surprised at how often that is discounted.

_noob_

I would like to drop my body fat % from 10 to 6 and maintain as much of my lean body mass as possible. How is this best acheived? Please site peer reviewed articles as sources...

jonnythan

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

I guess you didnt see the shirt he was working out in? This was paid for and sponsored by MCDONALDS. LMAO

I also dont recall Morgan Spurlock working out once during his 30 days.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117412391&page=1

Perfect post for the Broscience topic and Fast Food Hypotheses

So let me ask you something: say someone is losing weight while lifting and doing cardio. Do you think that his health, strength, or composition would be worse if he did substituted in a fast food meal once a day for whatever you consider a "clean" meal, provided the macros are all identical?

Loftearmen

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

I guess you didnt see the shirt he was working out in? This was paid for and sponsored by MCDONALDS. LMAO

I also dont recall Morgan Spurlock working out once during his 30 days.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117412391&page=1

Perfect post for the Broscience topic and Fast Food Hypotheses

So let me ask you something: say someone is losing weight while lifting and doing cardio. Do you think that his health, strength, or composition would be worse if he did substituted in a fast food meal once a day for whatever you consider a "clean" meal, provided the macros are all identical?

This thread began as a thread about broscience and wound up being about you being too proud to admit that eating fast food isn't ideal lol.... amazing

jonnythan

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

I guess you didnt see the shirt he was working out in? This was paid for and sponsored by MCDONALDS. LMAO

I also dont recall Morgan Spurlock working out once during his 30 days.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117412391&page=1

Perfect post for the Broscience topic and Fast Food Hypotheses

So let me ask you something: say someone is losing weight while lifting and doing cardio. Do you think that his health, strength, or composition would be worse if he did substituted in a fast food meal once a day for whatever you consider a "clean" meal, provided the macros are all identical?

This thread began as a thread about broscience and wound up being about you being too proud to admit that eating fast food isn't ideal lol.... amazing

It's actually on topic, because a common form of broscience is to avoid certain foods for nebulous or spurious reasons. For instance, "fast food is automatically bad for you" is indeed broscience.

K_Serz

You asked for links regarding the health consequences of fast food.

That's not what I asked for. Go back and reread.

Thats is kind of ridiculous. Does anyone here really need links to studies which validate that fast food is bad for us? Do we need a Morgan Spurlock documentary before some people believe eating fast food all day every day might be bad for us?

Eating fast food all day wasn't bad for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxpb7TJ7cQ
Down Size Me, released in 2005, is a documentary film produced by James Troost, and written by and starring Chazz Weaver. The film, which won a Newport Beach Film Festival Award, documents Chazz’s 30 day McDonald’s only diet, a project he undertook to debunk popular notions about fast food such as “it will make you fat”.

The film illustrates how Chazz Weaver lost 8 pounds of body fat, improved his cholesterol, and maintained his six pack abs while only eating McDonald’s for 30 days straight.

I guess you didnt see the shirt he was working out in? This was paid for and sponsored by MCDONALDS. LMAO

I also dont recall Morgan Spurlock working out once during his 30 days.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=117412391&page=1

Perfect post for the Broscience topic and Fast Food Hypotheses

So let me ask you something: say someone is losing weight while lifting and doing cardio. Do you think that his health, strength, or composition would be worse if he did substituted in a fast food meal once a day for whatever you consider a "clean" meal, provided the macros are all identical?

To answer you honestly ..... NOPE

Just because a piece of meat has 21g of protein, 8 grams of fat etc. Is just a part of the equation. Health wise, do you want your body to consume all the steroids and pharmaceutical drugs that the Cow was shot up with? Unfortunately myfitnesspal doesnt track that. You can ignore the fact that the beef consumed may have been injected with these hormones. And whether you think the cow is "organic" or not would you take the chance? Europe hasnt. Which is why American Beef treated with hormones is banned there.

Just because you look great on the outside, doesnt mean the inside looks so good. I was stationed with a 1stSgt Recon Marine who could out PT just about anyone on these forums. He wound up having 3 heart attacks. Goooooo Broscience!