Still think your 1200 or less diet is a good idea?
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i apologize that you're getting frustrated - so we won't keep at it. but just consider this. If it turns out this thing you've found that keeps you happy (totally important and I get that) causes you to be nutrient-deficient - which can weaken your immune system, along with pretty much any other system in the body - is it worth it? or maybe worth working a big more to find a good balance?
you don't have to answer, and we don't have to keep after it here, but just something to consider.
I am fine to continue if you would just refrain from telling me how I will respond to certain eating plans.
I do consider nutrition. As I said, I am going as low as I comfortably can. If I saw signs of malnutrition, I would eat more. I'm frankly quite surprised at how well I'm doing at such low calories. But I am definitely responding very well to it. There are people who fast regularly to great effect. So I don't think I am an outlier.
But I may be.
how long have you been eating this way? many signs of malnourishment are insidious and don't show up for quite some time, or you don't notice them for a while. regardless, i'm not saying you ARE malnourished, I'm just saying it's something to keep an eye on, and maybe at some point down the road get a blood test to verify your vitamin levels.0 -
I dont know the whys or wherefores of eating at 1200 cals. All I know is that the post claiming to be maintaining for twenty years at that level made me shiver. The thought of eating that little for that long..... I'm not doing this to punish myself. I'm doing this to live healthier and better and good food in good quantity is part of that. There will always be more to my meals than lettuce and dry fish...or living thinner is NOT living well.0
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I'll answer the "why 1200" question.
I spent most of my life very fit. I gained weight a couple times in chunks due to surgery/pregnancy & surgery/surgery. When I finally got around to trying to lose weight, I went to weight watchers with a friend. At first I did the points system but quickly found that logging everything was tedious and I wasn't losing weight. I switched to their "core" program which basically involves eating clean focused primarily lean meats and veggies an occasional serving of whole grain, eating until satisfied and no logging. I had great success, I lost 50 pounds in 6 months (including the time I spent not losing weight while trying to count points). I occasionally logged my food just to get a guestimate of where I was calorie wise. I found it was usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 calories. I stopped trying to lose weight when I hit my initial goal and things in my life had become much more hectic. I maintained for 4 years. Then I got divorced and moved and ended up eating at restaurants or fast food most of the time which caused me to gain over the course of six months. I gained back maybe 10-15 lbs during that time and I started working out with a personal trainer to get some new ideas mixed in with what I had been doing for quite a while. He recommended I eat 1800 calories a day (TDEE -15%) to lose weight. Over the course of 3 months, I gained a few pounds. I cut down to 1500 calories and was losing some weight. It was painfully slow and I found myself starting to not log things some days and generally not caring on a daily basis. I remembered my success with weight watchers and I started to eat more of what I wanted when I wanted sticking to healthy veggies, lean meats, and some whole grains. I logged all of this. At first I overly restricted and logged really low weeks, as I got more into it, my averages started to get to much closer to 1100-1200. I was losing appropriate amounts of weight, I felt satisfied all the time. I started looking into macros, etc... and worked a lot harder on making sure I was hitting my protein and fat minimums plus healthy veggies keep me over on my vitamin percentages on a regular basis. I've only been on MFP since mid Jan (this has a better food database than most other trackers I've found) but had been losing weight consistently (except Decemer of last year 2 birthdays including mine and Christmas) for about 5 months. I had a DXA scan done at the beginning and then one done about a month ago all my numbers look good.
For me, the key is balance. I have been lifting heavy for the better part of 15 years, the last thing I want to do is lose LBM. At the same time, I know that if my weight loss is too slow, I will get to the point where I just don't log things and lose some of the accountability I have to myself right now to. I basically eat healthy foods intuitively and log them all to maintain my accountability to myself. I have never had much trouble maintaining my weight (whatever that weight is) but I have had trouble losing it. 1200 isn't set in stone, there are plenty of days that I go over by several hundred calories and conversely, there are just as many days that I go under by several hundred. It averages out for me.
I'm 29, 5'7'', 166 lbs, 24.7% body fat. I will get another DXA scan done when I get to where my goal weight should be 147-150 for 18-20% body fat. I'll start bumping my calories up as I get closer to goal until I find my maintenance calories. I have been keeping really good logs and can probably get a pretty good estimate of my TDEE using that.
awesome story, and I'm glad you've found something that motivates you - because god knows that's the hardest part right?
I think, though, that this isn't the type of situation that causes people to create anti-1200 threads. You've done your homework, you've gone through the effort, the work, you keep track of your vitals, vitamins, etc. I think what makes taso and my brain explode now and again are the people that select 1200 completely arbitrarily because it's the lowest number MFP allows and because they think it will help them lose 2 pounds a week.
At the end of the day we just want people to make good, informed decisions, and it looks like you have. Congrats on your success! Keep it up!0 -
how long have you been eating this way? many signs of malnourishment are insidious and don't show up for quite some time, or you don't notice them for a while. regardless, i'm not saying you ARE malnourished, I'm just saying it's something to keep an eye on, and maybe at some point down the road get a blood test to verify your vitamin levels.
It's been a bout 7 weeks. And I'm halfway to my goal. So I'm looking at doing only another couple of months or so. So, your suggestion actually sounds a little weird to me. I think the human body is designed to weather periods of deprivation like this. I don't agree that I need give this any more attention than I am.0 -
I'll answer the "why 1200" question.
I spent most of my life very fit. I gained weight a couple times in chunks due to surgery/pregnancy & surgery/surgery. When I finally got around to trying to lose weight, I went to weight watchers with a friend. At first I did the points system but quickly found that logging everything was tedious and I wasn't losing weight. I switched to their "core" program which basically involves eating clean focused primarily lean meats and veggies an occasional serving of whole grain, eating until satisfied and no logging. I had great success, I lost 50 pounds in 6 months (including the time I spent not losing weight while trying to count points). I occasionally logged my food just to get a guestimate of where I was calorie wise. I found it was usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 calories. I stopped trying to lose weight when I hit my initial goal and things in my life had become much more hectic. I maintained for 4 years. Then I got divorced and moved and ended up eating at restaurants or fast food most of the time which caused me to gain over the course of six months. I gained back maybe 10-15 lbs during that time and I started working out with a personal trainer to get some new ideas mixed in with what I had been doing for quite a while. He recommended I eat 1800 calories a day (TDEE -15%) to lose weight. Over the course of 3 months, I gained a few pounds. I cut down to 1500 calories and was losing some weight. It was painfully slow and I found myself starting to not log things some days and generally not caring on a daily basis. I remembered my success with weight watchers and I started to eat more of what I wanted when I wanted sticking to healthy veggies, lean meats, and some whole grains. I logged all of this. At first I overly restricted and logged really low weeks, as I got more into it, my averages started to get to much closer to 1100-1200. I was losing appropriate amounts of weight, I felt satisfied all the time. I started looking into macros, etc... and worked a lot harder on making sure I was hitting my protein and fat minimums plus healthy veggies keep me over on my vitamin percentages on a regular basis. I've only been on MFP since mid Jan (this has a better food database than most other trackers I've found) but had been losing weight consistently (except Decemer of last year 2 birthdays including mine and Christmas) for about 5 months. I had a DXA scan done at the beginning and then one done about a month ago all my numbers look good.
For me, the key is balance. I have been lifting heavy for the better part of 15 years, the last thing I want to do is lose LBM. At the same time, I know that if my weight loss is too slow, I will get to the point where I just don't log things and lose some of the accountability I have to myself right now to. I basically eat healthy foods intuitively and log them all to maintain my accountability to myself. I have never had much trouble maintaining my weight (whatever that weight is) but I have had trouble losing it. 1200 isn't set in stone, there are plenty of days that I go over by several hundred calories and conversely, there are just as many days that I go under by several hundred. It averages out for me.
I'm 29, 5'7'', 166 lbs, 24.7% body fat. I will get another DXA scan done when I get to where my goal weight should be 147-150 for 18-20% body fat. I'll start bumping my calories up as I get closer to goal until I find my maintenance calories. I have been keeping really good logs and can probably get a pretty good estimate of my TDEE using that.
awesome story, and I'm glad you've found something that motivates you - because god knows that's the hardest part right?
I think, though, that this isn't the type of situation that causes people to create anti-1200 threads. You've done your homework, you've gone through the effort, the work, you keep track of your vitals, vitamins, etc. I think what makes taso and my brain explode now and again are the people that select 1200 completely arbitrarily because it's the lowest number MFP allows and because they think it will help them lose 2 pounds a week.
At the end of the day we just want people to make good, informed decisions, and it looks like you have. Congrats on your success! Keep it up!
For me, that is definitely the hardest part!
The thing that irks me about these posts is the general assumption of ignorance and refusal to believe that anyone could have done their "due diligence." No exceptions.
I definitely think that a lot of people don't make informed decisions, it is clear when you look around that, that is the case. But, I don't think that is the rule so much as it is the case for many people. [At least that is what I like to believe
]
And thanks! I feel great and I'm pretty excited to be doing something that is working so well for me!0 -
He isn't bothering me. I like him I don't want to ignore him. I use, "ignore button" for people who bother me.
Leave him alone. The fighting doesn't get anyone anywhere and it clogs the thread. Please grow up and put him on ignore. I hope he does the same. I don't put up with childishness on here any longer. Anything negative and they go on ignore. If they are negative and immature once, I find they do it in every thread.So the latest from Expert Taso before that thread locked was "why the hostility?" He thinks he was merely advocating for people to pick their own calorie amts rather than go by "dogma." Yet all he said in his OP was the title: "Still think your 1200 or less diet is a good idea?"
Doesn't that sound a tad hostile to the idea that 1200 could be right for ANYBODY?
Exactly and his response to any one calling him on it is as smug as the post in the first place......
Reported this one too. Hopefully that will be strike 2 for you.
Not exactly sure why you seem to have a personal beef (no pun intended) with me.
Oh no...I hope you don't call my Mom too.....this whole negative thread should be reported.
Another helpful reply from you. You're on a roll here, adding all sorts of value along the way.
Soooooo...why didn't you just press "ignore" rather than "post reply"?0 -
Look at how chronic undereating turned out for these people...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/419136-what-am-i-doing-wrong
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/419393-need-serious-help-please
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/420759-gaining-weight-on-a-low-carb-diet-please-help
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/421412-so-fed-up-there-has-to-be-an-easier-way
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/446248-why-am-i-gaining-weight
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447513-disillusioned
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/448803-not-loosing-weight-or-inches
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/454374-gaining-with-scrict-diet-and-workouts
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/455392-no-results-at-all-despair
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/457566-why-cant-i-loose-weight-or-inches
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/457037-feeling-disheartened
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/467001-why-1200-c-a-day-and-still-no-weight-loss
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/480698-assistance-please-this-is-getting-ridiculous
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/480186-tiredness
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/487729-the-scale-wont-move
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/493331-i-need-some-straight-up-advice-on-this-dieting
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/503342-mfp-lied-help
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/509836-i-can-t-seem-to-lose-any-weight
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/517635-what-is-wrong-with-me
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/526497-1000cal-day-diet-daily-work-out-not-losing
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/552142-giving-up
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/557832-why-am-i-not-loosing-weight-help-im-doing-everything-i
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/585081-help-working-out-and-eating-1200-calories-no-change
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/589043-sick-of-trying-with-no-results
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/665625-could-someone-look-at-my-logs
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/668039-why-haven-t-i-lost-weight-in-2-weeks
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/680195-helppppp
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/705854-hair-loss
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/713154-900-calories-a-day
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/713967-not-seeing-any-progress
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/721909-1200-every-day-and-no-change-demotivated-completely
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/739340-1200cal-daily-for-3-weeks-and-havent-lost-a-single-pound
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/854231-calorie-problem
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/854236-stuck-fat
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/867360-i-m-scared
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/873449-need-advice
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/890176-not-losing-with-1200-calorie-plan
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/892991-4-weeks-dieting-and-haven-t-lost-1-pound
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/901715-anybody-busting-their-butts-and-seeing-no-results
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/905033-why-am-i-not-losing
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/905493-daily-600-net-calories-no-weight-lost-what-s-wrong
These are just a few threads I've put in my little "chronic undereaters" scrapbook. It's gotten to the point where I can spot them by thread title alone.
ETA: To make this post a little more useful, have a look at the thread below, to better understand how your calorie target should be set for the best long term success:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets
This is the one (and ones similar to this) that stick in my mind.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/572503-why-you-should-eat-more-a-lion-s-tale0 -
how long have you been eating this way? many signs of malnourishment are insidious and don't show up for quite some time, or you don't notice them for a while. regardless, i'm not saying you ARE malnourished, I'm just saying it's something to keep an eye on, and maybe at some point down the road get a blood test to verify your vitamin levels.
It's been a bout 7 weeks. And I'm halfway to my goal. So I'm looking at doing only another couple of months or so. So, your suggestion actually sounds a little weird to me. I think the human body is designed to weather periods of deprivation like this. I don't agree that I need give this any more attention than I am.
that's your choice. what's your plan once you reach your goal?0 -
obviously many of us have not been educated or practiced in caloric needs when we first come onto a site like this...1200 for me was a starting place... my plan all along was that it may need altering as I go....So that's why ... just a place to start.
so then why not give a some thought to advice from people who have quite a bit of experience in this area?
What experience? Are you a registered dietician0 -
that's your choice. what's your plan once you reach your goal?
I am going to have to figure out how to do that when I get to it. I intend to start out trying a rapid cycle IF schedule. If I eat the bulk of my calories inside of a small window of time each day, I am hoping to avoid the problems I had in the past with calorie counting.
I just love what I am doing now so much that I want maintenance to resemble it as much as possible.0 -
I think this approach was fantastic and just what some people will need. Kudos taso!!I'm not an expert. I'm a moderately smart person who is trying to present a very simple concept to people who, for whatever reason, are very resistant to optimize their health and fitness.
Have you considered for any length of time maybe trying to be a little bit clearer about what you are trying to say in the future?
It is a very simple concept and could easily have been stated clearly and simply instead of a rhetorical title followed by links.
The latter is pretty open to interpretation.
You've got 150 posts here. I've got nearly 8500.
Believe me. I have tried a variety of different approaches. This was but one approach. It won't be my last.
I've helped lots of people on this site find their way and I continue to do so. It almost makes it worth it in the face of being called a judgmental *kitten*, etc.
Okay. So you have many posts and have helped many users.
Do you agree that this approach was vague and unclear? You called it astonishing that people misunderstood you. It isn't astonishing. You were unclear.0 -
obviously many of us have not been educated or practiced in caloric needs when we first come onto a site like this...1200 for me was a starting place... my plan all along was that it may need altering as I go....So that's why ... just a place to start.
so then why not give a some thought to advice from people who have quite a bit of experience in this area?
What experience? Are you a registered dietician
Again with the played out implication that one needs credentials to understand very basic concepts.
You posted on the internet. Are you a computer scientist?0 -
For those who mentioned CaliforniaGirl2012. She defends people's rights to eat at a calorie deficit that is appropriate for them. Because she is older and very short, she DID have to eat at a lower calorie level to lose her weight.
The reason you no longer see her on here, is that some people were tired of her sharing her success story on here and admitting that she ate at 1200, and constantly reported her for spamming and for advocating unhealthy diet practices. She eventually 'struck out' and is permanently banned from posting on the open forums.
Too bad. Since she was the main reason that I stuck it out on here after the first couple of weeks. I kept having people say that I was wrong to eat at 1200, but I knew that I couldn't lose weight eating at the levels they said I should be. So finding Bobbi's story showed me that for some people, we do need to eat at a lower level, and that it can be done in a safe and healthy manner. She has inspired so many people on here, and she is now maxed out on her FL with a waiting list that has hundreds more.
Unfortunately, the loudest and most opinionated posters on here, seem to set the environment, and gang up on those who disagree with them, to get them banned.
I had no idea, sigh. I'm sorry to hear it, because I liked her posts too.
Nowhere am I saying its ok for someone who shouldn't eat at 1200, to do so. Only saying that it is appropriate for some people, mainly those who are older and petite, or extremely sedentary due to health issues. It is not appropriate for myself, so I don't.0 -
I am going to have to figure out how to do that when I get to it. I intend to start out trying a rapid cycle IF schedule. If I eat the bulk of my calories inside of a small window of time each day, I am hoping to avoid the problems I had in the past with calorie counting.
I just love what I am doing now so much that I want maintenance to resemble it as much as possible.
Don't you worry that when you reach goal you'll then pile it back on? I had a look at your diary and this last week you averaged 1,098 and the week before 993. That's very low. I honestly hope VLCD works out better for you than it did for me. I lost near 60lb in 4 months ...and put it all back on again before the year was out. Best of luck!0 -
Can we spend the remaining 20 pages on this thread talking about chocolate bars and ice cream?
I had 890 calories for lunch today. And I had a Twix peanut butter candy bar just now. I'll be putting on my linebacker uniform in the morning.0 -
I apologize if you've already answered this because I haven't read the thread in its entirety. But I am curious what you think the minimum safe number of calories is for a person to eat?
There was a super morbidly obese man who fasted for a year under doctor supervision without encountering any medical problems.
The answer to your question is, I do not know.
That's fair. So would you say that you would never feel comfortable telling someone that their calorie intake is too little?
I'll step in and answer this one--Yes, I would feel comfortable telling someone their intake was too low. Key words are "morbidly obese" and "under doctor supervision." If those conditions aren't met then I'd feel comfortable (barring complete bed rest or someone 75+ years of age).
I guess my question is under what circumstances do you feel it's ok to tell someone they're eating too few calories.
I chose to ask the person I did because her diary is open and she has some very low days logged (700 cals, as she said earlier in the thread). I was just curious. I don't have a dog in the 1200 cals fight. Some might call me one of the "eat more" crowd because I often tell people who are struggling at 1200 to try upping their intake, but I don't think 1200 is always inappropriate. I do think it's strange not to want to eat as much as possible while still making good progress, but I understand that everyone has a different way of thinking about that.
So for you, if a person is not morbidly obese, not under the care of a physician, and eating under 1200, at what point do you tell them to eat more? If 1200 isn't the cut off I guess I'm wondering what is.
If they are within 20 pounds of goal I would say a deficit over 20% of their TDEE is too much--if that happens to be at 1200 I'd probably leave them be.0 -
Can we spend the remaining 20 pages on this thread talking about chocolate bars and ice cream?
I had 890 calories for lunch today. And I had a Twix peanut butter candy bar just now. I'll be putting on my linebacker uniform in the morning.
I had 600 for breakfast! 2 bran muffins with coconut, chocolate chips, and cinnamon chips were included in that. YUM!0 -
Can we spend the remaining 20 pages on this thread talking about chocolate bars and ice cream?
I had 890 calories for lunch today. And I had a Twix peanut butter candy bar just now. I'll be putting on my linebacker uniform in the morning.
I had 600 for breakfast! 2 bran muffins with coconut, chocolate chips, and cinnamon chips were included in that. YUM!
I've eaten very light today. Just a shake in the morning and a black cherry chobani about a half hour ago.
But now I'm going to smash some spaghetti meatsauce, a Greek salad, beer, and probably some ice cream for dessert. All in all a light day. But I've been pretty sedentary this weekend.
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This is one thing I've often wondered about - is this primarily due to reduced muscle mass and reduced activity? Because from most of what I read here, that's pretty much what "metabolism" is.So the latest from Expert Taso before that thread locked was "why the hostility?" He thinks he was merely advocating for people to pick their own calorie amts rather than go by "dogma." Yet all he said in his OP was the title: "Still think your 1200 or less diet is a good idea?"
Doesn't that sound a tad hostile to the idea that 1200 could be right for ANYBODY?
can I ask you: why did you choose 1200 cal?
It works for me, and gives me enough good food to eat, plus snacks. I am 61, not terribly overweight, not very active, and female. This is the amt. I need to eat in order to lose weight. I HAVE eaten more-- that's why I have a weight issue! So, is this OK with you?
I'm also 61, and 1200 net calories worked great to get my excess weight off. I reached my goal a year ago and started maintenance, but I hopped off the wagon during the holidays and need to get back on before I grow out of my new clothes. I didn't keep my large clothing. Maybe older women don't need as many calories? Everyone is different.
this is true - older folks in general don't need as many calories as we young'ns.0 -
Can we spend the remaining 20 pages on this thread talking about chocolate bars and ice cream?
I had 890 calories for lunch today. And I had a Twix peanut butter candy bar just now. I'll be putting on my linebacker uniform in the morning.
I had 600 for breakfast! 2 bran muffins with coconut, chocolate chips, and cinnamon chips were included in that. YUM!
Did you make those yourself ? If so, got a recipe, lol ?0
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