Lose weight first & then lift or do both @ the same time?

13

Replies

  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
    Since you aren't new to lifting, you will not gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Since you want to lose weight I assume you are on a calorie deficit. Without lifting, a lot of your weight loss (as much as half of it) will be muscle. To preserve the muscle you have while losing fat, you need to lift and get adequate protein. Without lifting, your body sees no reason to hold on to that muscle. So keep a calorie deficit, lift weights, and get enough protein and you'll get the toned but not bulky look you are wanting. Its as simple as that.

    :drinker: Lift on a deficit and you will still be able to lose weight, without losing a lot of muscle along with the fat. Try lifting heavy - 20 reps isn't heavy. Do the heaviest you can do in 5.
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    Tom platts.. who had the NASTIEST quads in his era swore by squatting 405x20.. alana ravens npc pro figure and bikini model swears high reps for toning and tightening. Mike nueman mr natural illinios.. swears high reps low weight when cutting.. i use these people as i know them personally. For many years... i go with what is proven to work time and time again. More reps burns more calories..

    The great ronnie coleman is famous for saying " everyone wanna be a big but no body wanna lift no heavy *kitten* weights"... this man lifted HEAVY for a bodybuilder.. high 800 squats and deadlifts..he was the biggest bodybuilder anyone had seen he won on pure size.. because he lifted heavy *kitten* weights. So wouldnt that mean lifting heavy..would make you grow..
  • Liftnlove
    Liftnlove Posts: 235
    <---I did both...lost 30 lbs last year and lifted hard 5x a week. Lift hard on a deficit, and you won't end up with the "fat, muscular" look you described.
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    <---I did both...lost 30 lbs last year and lifted hard 5x a week. Lift hard on a deficit, and you won't end up with the "fat, muscular" look you described.
    awesome job.
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    I am sorry liftnlove.. but if anyone cares to read her page.. it gives her work outs for a week.. uh oh watch out silly people.. it says she did high reps 20 reps.. oh this cant be right. Are you sure.. and looking from her pictures it worked.. nooooooo thats impossible.. no im serious.. either she did the correct research or someone qualified instructed her on this.. either way a living mfp example of my theroys
  • Jemellc
    Jemellc Posts: 308 Member
    Thanks for the topic & these post.
  • ladyraven68
    ladyraven68 Posts: 2,003 Member
    There are a load of women on here who do both -

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/884447-do-you-lift-heavy-are-you-bulky?

    These are real life, MFP examples, not fitness models (although some could be) .

    each and every one of them is an inspiration.
  • Liftnlove
    Liftnlove Posts: 235
    I am sorry liftnlove.. but if anyone cares to read her page.. it gives her work outs for a week.. uh oh watch out silly people.. it says she did high reps 20 reps.. oh this cant be right. Are you sure.. and looking from her pictures it worked.. nooooooo thats impossible.. no im serious.. either she did the correct research or someone qualified instructed her on this.. either way a living mfp example of my theroys

    BOOM!!! Preach!!!! ;p

    (That's why I don't say I "lift heavy" on here anymore, even though it damn sure FEELS heavy--but I stay in the 8-20 rep range 95% of the time, with compound and <gasp> isolation movements.. I train for aesthetics, not just strength, which is extremely unpopular on MFP. Fortunately for me, I never cared much about being popular.)
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    I am sorry liftnlove.. but if anyone cares to read her page.. it gives her work outs for a week.. uh oh watch out silly people.. it says she did high reps 20 reps.. oh this cant be right. Are you sure.. and looking from her pictures it worked.. nooooooo thats impossible.. no im serious.. either she did the correct research or someone qualified instructed her on this.. either way a living mfp example of my theroys

    BOOM!!! Preach!!!! ;p

    (That's why I don't say I "lift heavy" on here anymore, even though it damn sure FEELS heavy--but I stay in the 8-20 rep range 95% of the time, with compound and <gasp> isolation movements.. I train for aesthetics, not just strength, which is extremely unpopular on MFP. Fortunately for me, I never cared much about being popular.)
    i might be in internet love
  • ladyraven68
    ladyraven68 Posts: 2,003 Member
    I am sorry liftnlove.. but if anyone cares to read her page.. it gives her work outs for a week.. uh oh watch out silly people.. it says she did high reps 20 reps.. oh this cant be right. Are you sure.. and looking from her pictures it worked.. nooooooo thats impossible.. no im serious.. either she did the correct research or someone qualified instructed her on this.. either way a living mfp example of my theroys

    BOOM!!! Preach!!!! ;p

    (That's why I don't say I "lift heavy" on here anymore, even though it damn sure FEELS heavy--but I stay in the 8-20 rep range 95% of the time, with compound and <gasp> isolation movements.. I train for aesthetics, not just strength, which is extremely unpopular on MFP. Fortunately for me, I never cared much about being popular.)

    As you say you train for asthetic purposes, and I am assuming you are doing the isolation movements because you wants the extra definition in your biceps , triceps etc.

    Taking into account the OP, and others who claim to not want the muscle definition, would you still recommend the same training plan for someone training for fat loss and just starting out, or would you recommend they just keep it simple.
  • Liftnlove
    Liftnlove Posts: 235
    I am sorry liftnlove.. but if anyone cares to read her page.. it gives her work outs for a week.. uh oh watch out silly people.. it says she did high reps 20 reps.. oh this cant be right. Are you sure.. and looking from her pictures it worked.. nooooooo thats impossible.. no im serious.. either she did the correct research or someone qualified instructed her on this.. either way a living mfp example of my theroys

    BOOM!!! Preach!!!! ;p

    (That's why I don't say I "lift heavy" on here anymore, even though it damn sure FEELS heavy--but I stay in the 8-20 rep range 95% of the time, with compound and <gasp> isolation movements.. I train for aesthetics, not just strength, which is extremely unpopular on MFP. Fortunately for me, I never cared much about being popular.)

    As you say you train for asthetic purposes, and I am assuming you are doing the isolation movements because you wants the extra definition in your biceps , triceps etc.

    Taking into account the OP, and others who claim to not want the muscle definition, would you still recommend the same training plan for someone training for fat loss and just starting out, or would you recommend they just keep it simple.

    I may have misread, but I don't think the OP said she didn't want definition. She said she wanted to be small and muscular. I have gone from a size 14 to a size 2/4, so even though my biceps may look "big" in pictures, I assure you I am not big...if you look at my unflexed pics you can tell I'm not large

    Personally, I have no problem with ANY lifting program--it is my opinion that all of them have merits. It's just a little frustrating that the dominant opinion on MFP is that if you do ANYTHING but squats, deads, and bench, you're wasting your life. It's just not true. Different programs achieve different results, Powerlifters train differently than bodybuilders, so who's wrong?... Neither of them--they have different goals, that's all.

    ...For people who don't want definition, all they have to do is maintain a slightly higher bodyfat, which is not difficult, I assure you :)
  • redheaddee
    redheaddee Posts: 2,005 Member
    Read New Rules of Lifting for Women and eat healthy.

    /thread.
  • Lostone31
    Lostone31 Posts: 57
    Didn't read through all the pages.

    Been doing stronglifts 5x5 for 7 session (MWF) and running on the days off.

    Already lost 5 lbs and losing the belly fat much faster than with cardio alone. I was not getting the results I wanted from insanity and promply switched to Stronglifts and running... Best move I could have ever made.
  • tabinmaine
    tabinmaine Posts: 965 Member
    I have friends who do Stronglifts, I have friends who split their body parts up and do isolation movements and I have friends who do nothing but Crossfit.
    I have friends who eat 8 x a day, I have friends who eat 2x a day.... some do IF, some don't......BUT

    Guess what ? THEY ALL LOOK FREAKIN FANTASTIC and honestly, they are all lean and ripped.

    The end result will be a toned, lean, stong, ripped athelete .......who cares how you got there :)

    The ONLY thing they all do the same is..... LIFT heavy things and FUEL their bodies on lots and lots of food.
  • _Lori__Lynn_
    _Lori__Lynn_ Posts: 20
    Liftlove,

    You look awesome. Your before photo reminds me of how I look now (somewhat) so you're a good example for me. And when I am in shape I am about a size 2 as well. We may be the same body frame.

    Did you supplement? I don't know how to supp or what to take.

    Thanks in advance.
  • Liftnlove
    Liftnlove Posts: 235
    Liftlove,

    You look awesome. Your before photo reminds me of how I look now (somewhat) so you're a good example for me. And when I am in shape I am about a size 2 as well. We may be the same body frame.

    Did you supplement? I don't know how to supp or what to take.

    Thanks in advance.

    Thanks hon...no, I don't take any "workout-related" type supplements. Me gots no moneys... :sad:

    I just take very basic supps...Multivitamin, Fish Oil, Vitamin D, B-Complex, Calcium, and Glucosamine/Chondroitin for mah old-lady joints. The only supp I experimented with was BCAAs, but I couldn't stand the taste...send me your address and I'll mail you a jar that's 99% full... :bigsmile: Creatine has some great research-backed results, but I've never taken it, though I'd happily take it if someone gave me some.

    Diet-wise, I just made sure I got plenty of cals and protein (I aimed for 2000 cals and 150 gms a day, even when I was actively losing weight), and didn't worry too much about anything else. I don't eat that clean, and I don't want to. I love food. :)
  • DebbieLyn63
    DebbieLyn63 Posts: 2,654 Member
    People have different definitions of the word 'bulky'. To me, bulky is having large muscles, with a layer of fat covering them, giving an appearance of being very large when fully clothed. Someone who has large, well-defined muscles, at a lower BF% are not bulky.

    Certain women can indeed build muscle mass more quickly than average. It depends on their body type and hormone levels. Women who carry their extra weight in their midsection and upper body, tend to have a higher testosterone level than women who carry their extra weight in their hips and thighs. It is just the way we are built, genetically.
    I am very short-waisted, and have always had a thick waist, and long lean legs and no butt. Mens jeans always fit better than girls jean. I also am naturally more muscular and build muscle size and strength very quickly, compared to the average female.
    I have been told so many times on these forums that this is not possible and I am just wrong.

    At the risk of fueling the flames, I came across some old pics that can explain what I mean.

    This first pic was on my first day at work as a baggage handler. I was 5'7" at the time and around 140. In addition to having horrible posture, you can see how short waisted I am, how I carry my weight in my belly, and how small thru the arms and shoulders I am. At this point my waist was around 28" and hips were around 35". And you could iron shirts on my flat butt! lol

    a4322a6a-a0c9-47c9-918a-b8eddf770853_zps7b3518e7.jpg

    This next picture is a few years later, when I had been body building for about 3-4 months and had gone from 155 down to 150. Not sure exactly what weight I was, but it was between those 2 weights. My waist and hips were still around the same size, but my upper body was considerable larger, and my legs were more built. I was leg-pressing 360, benching 125, and walking lunges with 130-150 on a bar. I was squatting fairly heavy as well, but didn't really like them, so I don't remember how much I squatted.

    Until I found this picture a few weeks ago, I didn't realize how huge I looked. Seriously, I looked like a linebacker. Because I responded so quickly to lifting heavy, the body builders I was training with wanted me to compete, but I didn't want to go thru the cutting it would take to get my BF% that low, and frankly the thought of standing painted in a bikini in front of judges to be critiqued on my body was NOT something I found the least bit appealing. I was never secure in my body enough to even have regular photos taken of me in a one piece, so no way could I do that.

    So here it is, please be gentle!
    d4fb00d3-d07a-4513-863e-37b1b1983ea0_zps860f7162.jpg

    No matter what I looked like, I really did love weightlifting. I loved being strong and not jiggly, and I consider that time to be the best shape and health I have ever been in.
    But I certainly understand why some women who are built like I am, are afraid to lift heavy and end up looking big, as much of society deems a different body type as being 'ideal'.

    I personally prefer the lean muscular look for myself and for what I am typically attracted to in men as well. I would LOVE to have the lean, defined muscles that some of the women on here have. And now that I know how to 'cut' properly, if I were physically able to be lifting heavy, I would most likely still be sweating with the boys in the gym. Tho probably would still never be confident enough to ever wear a bikini in public.

    Now, with disabling injuries and arthritis, (and 49 yo), those days are gone, but I can still continue getting this extra weight off and exercise as much as I can to keep my muscles as healthy as possible, and pray my skin continues to shrink up as I lose.

    Edit to shrink pics.
  • Deipneus
    Deipneus Posts: 1,854 Member
    So should I focus on full fledge fat loss and then lift? Or try to do both at the same time, which didn't really make me happy before.
    I lost weight and then started lifting. It thought it made sense at the time but... if I had it to over again, I'd start lifting right away.
  • Mia_RagazzaTosta
    Mia_RagazzaTosta Posts: 4,885 Member
    bump
  • lunarescape
    lunarescape Posts: 51 Member
    I'm 5'2' and 105~ pounds and 19 years old. I lift heavy (or at least try to.) However, I look very small and petite. You'd never think I lift.

    I do Stronglifts 5x5. Basically, it is comprised of two workouts, A and B.
    Workout A:
    Squat- 5 sets, 5 reps
    Bench - 5x5
    Bent over rows - 5x5

    Workout B:
    Squat - 5x5
    Overhead press - 5x5
    Deadlift 1x5

    I do these alternating days of the week. Ex: Workout A Monday, Workout B Wednesday, Workout C Friday.

    You only have to lift 3 days a week. I try to workout a minimum of 5 days a week. On my non-lifting days, I usually jog or do yoga, or something else light. I also suggest interval training.

    If you want to lose fat, you need to eat at a deficit. Use this calculator to help you figure out how many calories you need to eat:
    http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

    edit: Oh, and you can lift and lose fat. Your lifts may not be the same as if you were eating more, however. Or at least from my experience.
  • CoderGal
    CoderGal Posts: 6,800 Member
    I think my body type is an Endomorph. Grow muscle easily, but hold onto fat easily. . I guess. Unless I am an ectomoroph, but a bad eater.
    Just wanted to point out that the Endomorph thing was a theory developed in the 1940s, it was never proven to be a real thing. It is only popular now in womens magazines...that are usually filled with lies and I would take with a grain of salt.
  • CoderGal
    CoderGal Posts: 6,800 Member
    I have friends who do Stronglifts, I have friends who split their body parts up and do isolation movements and I have friends who do nothing but Crossfit.
    I have friends who eat 8 x a day, I have friends who eat 2x a day.... some do IF, some don't......BUT

    Guess what ? THEY ALL LOOK FREAKIN FANTASTIC and honestly, they are all lean and ripped.

    The end result will be a toned, lean, stong, ripped athelete .......who cares how you got there :)

    The ONLY thing they all do the same is..... LIFT heavy things and FUEL their bodies on lots and lots of food.
    this
  • chymerra
    chymerra Posts: 212
    do both. this is the format of p90x - it concentrates mostly on lifting and building lean muscle mass but also alternates with cardio every other day.


    I fear this is a dumb question, but since I don't know the answer and have been pondering it for a long time I have to ask.

    I need to lose weight, but I also need to tone up. I prefer a muscular look (not manly) but muscular.

    Is it possible to do both at the same time?

    I have read that it is not possible to lose fat and build muscles at the same time. However, since muscles burn fat, I find this odd, unless I misunderstood what I read.

    Years ago, I was the weight I am now (overweight) and worked with a pt lifting heavy. I lost inches, but no scale weight. I then became a very toned (big person). I still was heavy, not the size I wanted to be, but looked incredibly toned. I wasn't pleased. I wanted to be little and then toned. It wasn't pretty and guys were looking at my arms and asking, "You workout?" One guy even did the "swell up" thing with his arms. How embarrassing! Ick! I guess it was a fat, muscular look. You know that type we see in a lot of guys? I felt like I looked like that. I mention this bc I grow muscle extremely easily.

    So should I focus on full fledge fat loss and then lift? Or try to do both at the same time, which didn't really make me happy before.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Bulk is so relative.

    I encourage you all to read these articles. It's almost impossible to ACTUALLY bulk... what you are confusing for bulk is either building muscle and not loosing fat (which leads to great flex- but relaxed it just translates to "big"- it's a thing- not right/wrong- it just is.) or you lose body fat % and then you LOOK muscular- but you are beyond far from bulky. Also a thing- not right or wrong- just a thing.

    It's incredibly difficult to truly bulk a woman up through pure lifting alone- it can't be done accidentally. It takes years of training and diet/nutritional monitoring to get bigger- and then after that it takes drugs.

    please read this!!

    http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-training-females-the-definition

    http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-women-part-deux
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member

    Okay, I get it. You are being a smart alec and giving me opposite advice and making fun of me based on other posts I have made in other threads on reducing sugar and cleansing. That is pretty cruel. Your posse does that too. What is sad is I almost believed you. I am really needing help and rather you gave me advice that will hurt my efforts.I don't care if this gets me deleted or not but "YOU'RE AN A**HOLE!" And I hope karma bites you.

    I was just trying to help out. Since you bulk up easy I was trying to leverage that talent to your advantage. I should better step away now because I sense my feelings are going to get hurt. Gosh this was the rudest thing I've ever read on here. :cry:

    Leave poor Taso alone. He is a delicate flower and gets hurt easily. Poor guy, people are so mean!
  • DebbieLyn63
    DebbieLyn63 Posts: 2,654 Member
    I think my body type is an Endomorph. Grow muscle easily, but hold onto fat easily. . I guess. Unless I am an ectomoroph, but a bad eater.
    Just wanted to point out that the Endomorph thing was a theory developed in the 1940s, it was never proven to be a real thing. It is only popular now in womens magazines...that are usually filled with lies and I would take with a grain of salt.

    There are quite a few articles on the Livestrong site about this body type, and how to eat and exercise for it. Not sure if it is any more reliable, but at least it isn't a 'women's' magazine.
  • Vini9
    Vini9 Posts: 343 Member
    hummmmm
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member

    Okay, I get it. You are being a smart alec and giving me opposite advice and making fun of me based on other posts I have made in other threads on reducing sugar and cleansing. That is pretty cruel. Your posse does that too. What is sad is I almost believed you. I am really needing help and rather you gave me advice that will hurt my efforts.I don't care if this gets me deleted or not but "YOU'RE AN A**HOLE!" And I hope karma bites you.

    I was just trying to help out. Since you bulk up easy I was trying to leverage that talent to your advantage. I should better step away now because I sense my feelings are going to get hurt. Gosh this was the rudest thing I've ever read on here. :cry:

    Leave poor Taso alone. He is a delicate flower and gets hurt easily. Poor guy, people are so mean!

    Thanks hun :flowerforyou:
    I slept on it and I've decided that I'm not going to let these internet bullies get to me.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    5 sets of 15-20.. builds endurance and hard muscles... now diet is key if you have a **** diet you might as welll not even bother.. i wont tell you to cut out carbs but tell you to eat the right carbs at the right time. Whole wheat anything whole grain.. brown rice. Thing of this nature.. we want carbs before we lift for energy protien after for muscle recovery. Meats should only consist of fish chicken turkey and lean beef.. there are others like deer meat and those things but not evwryone can get those.. you should be eaiting 5-6 small meals a day spread out around your workout and dailu life they should be 2 1/2 -3 hours apart. This stimulates your metabolism which.burns calories.... but these are small healthy meals or snacks. Not 6 whoppers a day

    Not yet through all four pages yet, but tentatively in to learn more about the small meals throughout the day = stimulated metabolism thing.
  • Jacwhite22
    Jacwhite22 Posts: 7,010 Member
    I have never in read so much horrible and misguided information in my life.. what the hello kitty are you all talking about.. wow...purely wow. Ma'am seek professional advice from a certified trainer or nutritionist. Def not these fools

    Well then can you help me? What should I do?

    P.S. The last man who posted made up opposite information intentionally. He does it to me in every thread. He enjoys taking up 5 minutes of his life which he will never get back again and spending on me just to try to annoy me. But it's his life, he must not value it much.
    i understand his posts where ridiculous.. and yes.. i will gladly give you advice that is going to work.. first things first..never lift heavy if you want to tone and burn fat.. heavy lifting builds mass.. how do i know.. look at my pictures.. you need high reps high sets to build hard tone muscles.. and you need to build muscle.. the more muscle we have the more calories we burn.. now cardio.. intense alternating cardio.. running or walking or eliptical alone wont cut it.. interval training where you will burn the most calories. Going back and forth between speeds every one to two minutes.. example.. treadmill.. jogg for one min sprint for 30 seconds..back and forth. This for 15 mins will burn more calories than running alone for 30 mins..give me a min ill brb


    I just want to make sure I understand? You are calling other people out on "ridiculous misinformation" and yet you post "never lift heavy if you want to tone and burn fat.. heavy lifting builds mass.. how do i know.. look at my pictures.. you need high reps high sets to build hard tone muscles" You can't be serious right? Eating at a surplus while lifting weights will gain muscle......Eating at a deficit.....no matter what rep scheme/weight will not.

    I am all for the HIIT so I won't argue that....but the first part of your statement holds no truth. I would be glad to debate it with you just please be prepared to bring peer reviewed unbiased studies that support your opinion........



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