Cleanse - why you are lucky they don't work

beckymlong

[/quote] quote:
No, a cleanse is planning out everything you eat and eating only the foods that are most beneficial.
[/quote]

If this is a cleanse I will be cleansing next week as I have plannedand prepared shopping list fit the entire week introducing lentils, legumes, beans and juices adding extra fruit and veg. And no crap. I plan to continue this kinds of low gi diet that suits my nutrient requirements. I really believe the problem is down to what people perceive a cleanse to be.

DRJ311

I disagree with gravity. Also numbers. It's just a theory, I mean have you ever counted to a trillion?

^^^ this

Gravity is but a myth invented by people who are too lazy to try to fly. We have all been brainwashed at birth to believe that we can't fly because of gravity, but if we work hard enough to get over this brainwashing, we can, in fact, fly.

Gravity is basically force at a distance, pfft!!! that breaks some laws of physics. And no scientist has yet been able to find any graviton particles.

Also, there's no such thing as light. Light is merely the absence of dark. Lights do not emit light, they suck dark. They appear brighter the closer you get to the light, because that's where they are sucking the most dark. If you don't believe me, then take a dead battery out of a torch and open it up. It's full of dark powder. That's all the dark that the torch has sucked. The battery dies because it's sucked too much dark. The sun may appear to be giving light, but it's actually an extremely efficient dark sucker. Space is mostly full of dark, but the area around stars appears to be brighter, because stars are such efficient dark suckers.

[/pseudoscience]

LMFAO

Sarauk2sf

What did we learn today?

Cleanses don't work, UNLESS you change the definition to "healthy diet". Then they're good for you.


FASCINATING!

A fruit and vegetable cleanse with no extra protein or fat will work but you may lose some muscle mass. And that's the opposite of what most healthy people should want.

So, back to a cleanse = a healthy diet.

No, a cleanse is planning out everything you eat and eating only the foods that are most beneficial.

That is not most people's idea of a cleanse to be honest. Also, since when does healthy diet =/= foods that are most beneficial to you?

Also, mental health is important and very beneficial.

etoiles_argentees

I'm sure they have liver pate sandwiches at several places in California!
I understand it, and I think that the right cleanse really is not going to cause the liver to release any more intermediate metabolites than normal. In fact I think the opposite. A cleanse will increase the liver function from inorganic arsenic to the end metabolites, thus reducing the intermediate metabolites. But it's just a theory.

Fois gras? I can't seem to get it.

Fois gras was banned.
California's Foie Gras Ban Goes Into Effect 7/1/2012
http://abcnews.go.com/US/californias-foie-gras-ban-effect/story?id=16687059
Why would you want to eat diseased liver? I've never tried it but I'm guessing I would prefer braunschweiger and liverwurst.

Because it's yummy. And it isn't diseased, ducks normally achieve loaded livers in migration phases. And before we enter into a debate about gavage - I'm not for it, I get fois gras sans gavage (from Orleans or Spain) I brought my own, for my mother, but the stupid ban means I can't this type either. Meh, not the end of the world. Liverwurst is something totally different - it's like telling me to get a brownie when I can't find cheesecake in France.

What is the right cleanse - please feel free to reference it and I will look into it openly. Are you telling us that a cleanse up regulates multiple enzyme (and non enzyme) pathways? Do we have a candidate treatment for hepatic insufficiency that medical research has been ignoring?

The right cleanse would be one with all the vitamins and minerals especially sulfur and supplements to help the Cytochrome P450 enzymes and the conjugation pathway work at optimum levels. It's fairly complicated and I don't have it all written out. Maybe I'll write a book.

This is a start:
Methylation:Methionine, Co-factors (Magnesium, Folic Acid, B-12, Methyl Donors), Lipotropic nutrients (choline, methionine, betaine, folic acid, vitamin B12)

Excellent. Maybe you should write a book. That right there sounds like a steak with broccoli. Or fois gras. Certainly not the current set of recommended cleanses. Thanks for outlining those.

Not sure that what you are stating even makes it to a hypothesis - given that As (III) is both a end state metabolite and intermediate metabolite are the ratios different. In the arsenic poisoning events the treatment of choice has not been cleanses. I wonder why.

I thought As(III) was just intermediate metabolite that the liver releases when it can't complete the phase II detoxification, not an end state metabolite?

Prescribing a cleanse for arsenic poisoning would be like prescribing a heart health diet for a heart attack. It's a preventative diet, not a treatment.

Apparently not, urothelial cells also metabolize As (III) and I'd suggest that instead of "release" you consider competition of clearance rates and enzymatic reaction rates.

Ok, agreed. Then as a preventative diet why not eat broccoli extract (or the other components of this cleanse) continuously? How does a three day or 10 day cleanse work better, as a preventative treatment, than a continuous diet. Taking your example, as preventative diet for a heart attack, no one would prescribe a diet of healthy eating for only 3-10 days.

As to the As (III), it is one of the most basic metabolites of arsenic found in urine. Since it is the first step of methylation, occuring in the liver. I'm guessing it is leaving the liver. But here is a reference:
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol84/mono84-6.pdf

But are the patients' livers that healthy?

Yes, they are that healthy. Or compared to what?
What bio marker would you like to state improves with a cleanse that you want us to measure?

How do you know if they are healthy?
The amount of glutathione-S-transferase would be important. So would levels of B-12 and Folic acid for methylation.

I don't know that they are healthy, the point being, we don't know that they aren't either.

Ligands? (Giving my age away - that what we called GST in my day)
Are you suggesting an increase in GST would be a sign of beneficial effects - Please consider this:
http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=390507

Peplum also means, in French, a large production film, a type of multicolored vast production of people, from the American/Italian films that had people wearing peplum. I intended its use in that sense -I also hesitated to use "populo" it seemed less to touch on the productive/marketing sense of cleanses. But feel free to challenge my vocabulary, English isn't my first language; however, with respect to cleanses, I invite you to stop the argumentum ad hominem - address the subject, don't try to challenge my vocabulary or whether I'm making up things.

You've gotten dressed down, sans peplum, twice.

Peplum in English only means a part of clothing so it doesn't really fit . You have been making things up in most of your posts. I like to state when you are since most of them are assumptions Also you have disregarded some of mine where I was addressing the subject, not that it matters.

It sometimes happens, I use French/Spanish/English/German with some interchangeability.

As to making things up, each time you've stated so I've given a reference. I've also stated where things are unknown and presented where uncertainty exists but making things up? No.

For peplum - here is the definition: see French (2) - http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-definition/péplum
Here is the Wikipedia definition of the French word. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Péplum

Wouldn't you consider language a fluid thing and some words have multiple meanings and a certain play across languages/cultures?

Some of the connections in your posts seem to be made up. Saying that a person is lucky a cleanse doesn't work is a guess and that arsenic would behave differently in a person on a cleanse is a guess.

The fluidity of languages would be much more pronounced in Europe, not so much in the U.S. Maybe in some areas with multilingual people.

Yes, it is a guess, I readily admit it. Everything pretty much is, but I can reference every one of those steps from medical research. Saying that a current cleanses (lemonade or whatever) as has been done here helps with heavy metal toxin processing is pie-in-the-sky, thumb-in-your-eye falsehood. There is no evidence of this. Will a specific cleanse provide a benefit in the future? Most likely - but will it be better than just including certain foods or supplements into your diet? Not convinced.

On the whole, I appreciate our interaction - you've brought the level of discussion up.

As to the fluidity of language it is going on around us constantly. The cross-lingual stuff is certainly very present, more so, in Europe, where I live mostly, but 80-90% of my family and childhood friends from the US and Mexico are trilingual or more. We are right in your back yard.

I like this



QUOTE:

As to the As (III), it is one of the most basic metabolites of arsenic found in urine. Since it is the first step of methylation, occuring in the liver. I'm guessing it is leaving the liver. But here is a reference:
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol84/mono84-6.pdf

But are the patients' livers that healthy?

Yes, they are that healthy. Or compared to what?
What bio marker would you like to state improves with a cleanse that you want us to measure?

How do you know if they are healthy?
The amount of glutathione-S-transferase would be important. So would levels of B-12 and Folic acid for methylation.

Niecytwentyfive

All cleanses are not made equally. A heavy metal cleanse may be necessary in some cases.

Capt_Apollo

All cleanses are not made equally. A heavy metal cleanse may be necessary in some cases.

EvgeniZyntx

All cleanses are not made equally. A heavy metal cleanse may be necessary in some cases.

Thanks for bumping this old thread with that factoid.

If indeed there is a need to remove heavy metals it is after poisoning and it isn't via a cleanse but via the use of a chelating treatment like DMSA. However, it is used for specific heavy metal poisoning not, as misleading claims suggest, that it can treat a variety of random ailments.

Certainly not for weight loss.

ironanimal

All cleanses are not made equally. A heavy metal cleanse may be necessary in some cases.

I'll get us started.

http://youtu.be/0Xfvk028Kv0