Paleo vs The China Study - What are your views?

MeeshyBW

What are your thoughts?

The China Diet reminds me of Noni Juice. Im sure you will do your research. From my perspective: A study revealed that people indigenous to a geographical area consuming this juice from fruit that grew in this area, lived longer. After everyone jumped on that bandwagon and started buying the Noni Juice for $45 a bottle people are still dying, probably at a similar rate, except now they have less money when they die.

I am neither pro Paleo or China Diet, however I do love to eat meat. The problem that I have is, with Paleo or China diet are they studying people eating meat NOT injected with chemicals, steroids, and hormones that they are pumped with today? American beef is BANNED from Europe for this very reason. It could be possible that the China Diet shows significant differences because of the lack of hormones and chemicals in their diet. So here is an idea for a follow up China Diet study.

Let the Chinese continue to eat non animal products and then inject them full of the crap we pump our meat with. Then lets see how many tumors, lesions and heart explosions they start having per capita.

I find this a very interesting statement. I think you might be right. I strongly believe that the way US meat is raised is completely unhealthy. Thankfully a lot of the beef raised int he UK is naturally grass fed as standard.

I am not really for or against any particular diet but my view is we simply MUST stop eating meat and eggs that are intensively farmed and filled with hormones.

Organic eggs should be the only eggs we eat and grass fed/no grain/hormone free meats should be the only meat options we should consider as part of a healthy lifestyle.

I wonder if there is a study on this topic? Very interesting indeed.

tomg33

The Paleo Diet "works" and I like how it pushes for unprocessed foods, however these points don't change the fact that it principally relies on faulty logic. It's classic Naturalistic Fallacy to assume because something is "natural" it is good. As mentioned in this thread, palaeolithic man's goal was to survive, not to achieve a high level of muscularity, low level of body fat, and optimal health for 80+ years. Furthermore to claim they were healthier because they didn't seem to die of "modern" diseases like cardiovascular disease and T2 diabetes is sort of ridiculous considering most of them didn't live long enough to see the age where these diseases now tend to arise.

myofibril

I just wanted to know what Denise Minger credentials were is all. It seems she has no formal training in this friend so I am dubious about taking her research on board because of this. She wouldn't be the first blogger to jump on something like this to get a name for themselves in the blogosphere.

Anyone can claim to be anything on the internet and there is a lot of readily available information and data for people to collate to make it their 'own' research without having a scientific/medical background.

Oh certainly, I agree with you that it is important to assess the quality of the information and that the conclusions drawn. Bloggers on the internet don't quite go through the same process as peer reviewed research

However, I will not allow the power to make my own decisions and assess things for myself based on my own critical reasoning to simply be given to someone else merely because they have a degree or PhD etc.

Hope you enjoy the link. Does it debunk the China Study? Of course not. It simply opens up the area for further consideration and discussion.

MeeshyBW

The Paleo Diet "works" and I like how it pushes for unprocessed foods, however these points don't change the fact that it principally relies on faulty logic. It's classic Naturalistic Fallacy to assume because something is "natural" it is good. As mentioned in this thread, palaeolithic man's goal was to survive, not to achieve a high level of muscularity, low level of body fat, and optimal health for 80+ years. Furthermore to claim they were healthier because they didn't seem to die of "modern" diseases like cardiovascular disease and T2 diabetes is sort of ridiculous considering most of them didn't live long enough to see the age where these diseases now tend to arise.

^^^ THIS!

I agree with this statement. Surely the best diet is the one when we remove heavily processed foods, sugars, hormone filled animal products from our diets and eat everything in moderation?

It just doesn't have the same marketability though does it? Not sensationalist enough and certainly not something anyone could get rich of preaching about!

Hmmmmmm.

bananapancakebella

But my view is that ANY diet that removed refined grains from your diet and sugars is bound to have positive effects on your body and well being? Is eating such large amounts of meat based protein necessary? I am not entirely convinced.

I agree in eating grass fed meats, organic eggs etc... I am just not convinced that removing legumes and all grains is entirely healthy. Wheat, absolutely.

Is that much meat necessary? I don't know. But legumes and grains certainly are not necessary. The inuits come to mind as a culture that lived almost entirely off of animal flesh.

evileen99

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

But my view is that ANY diet that removed refined grains from your diet and sugars is bound to have positive effects on your body and well being? Is eating such large amounts of meat based protein necessary? I am not entirely convinced.

I agree in eating grass fed meats, organic eggs etc... I am just not convinced that removing legumes and all grains is entirely healthy. Wheat, absolutely. I have not seen ANY research that tells me wheat is necessary. I have been wheat free for nearly a year and it has had a huge impact on my well being.

Well, myself included.............most of us Paleo folks don't eat as much meat as you think. We focus more on high quality fat intake (animal sources, coconut oil, high quality olive oil) and lots of vegetables, minimal to moderate amounts of fruit and then protein in quantities necessary for retaining or building muscle (depends on your goal).

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

evileen99

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

Source? Lancet didn't mention that as the cause.

Lecterman

Does it matter really? With anything, people are going to be able to put pros and cons on just about any way of eating. And people will come up with some way to 'debunk' anything different than what they advocate.

Like some other have said, you've got to do what works for you.

I get a kick out of people who try to say their way is the best for everyone.

Vegans do it. Paleos do it. Eat right for you type people do it. Zone diet people do it.

You've got to do what's right for YOU.

Personally, I have been a vegetarian for 12 years (pretty much all vegan) and during that time I have raced bicycles competitively, done Crossfit and Strong Lifts, and currently train MMA and Jiu Jitsu. I train, compete, and recover just as well as my friends who choose to eat differently.

What I chose works for me.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

Source? Lancet didn't mention that as the cause.

You are perfectly capable of looking up the sources for yourself. I no longer do the research for others. If you want to know, read and research for yourself.

Acg67

Both are tied for the large # of zealots that follow the respective diets

NualaTW

Does it matter really? With anything, people are going to be able to put pros and cons on just about any way of eating. And people will come up with some way to 'debunk' anything different than what they advocate.

Like some other have said, you've got to do what works for you.

I get a kick out of people who try to say their way is the best for everyone.

Vegans do it. Paleos do it. Eat right for you type people do it. Zone diet people do it.

You've got to do what's right for YOU.

Personally, I have been a vegetarian for 12 years (pretty much all vegan) and during that time I have raced bicycles competitively, done Crossfit and Strong Lifts, and currently train MMA and Jiu Jitsu. I train, compete, and recover just as well as my friends who choose to eat differently.

What I chose works for me.

^^^This...different ways work for different people. Not everyone is the same, tolerates the same types of foods, or loses weight in the same way.

mmapags

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

Source? Lancet didn't mention that as the cause.

You are perfectly capable of looking up the sources for yourself. I no longer do the research for others. If you want to know, read and research for yourself.

So, instead you just post info that could be totally made up for all anyone knows? Seems legit.

OP, The China Study has been pretty thoroughly debunked and that should not be hard to research. That is what Dave tried to tell you but you dismissed it. If you want to eat as you state, just do it. There is no need to follow one diet or another. Make the choices you think are best and just do it.

Bakkasan

Do what works for YOU.

'

This is the only 100% accurate advice.

colorslide

No matter what I read or hear, I take everything with a grain of salt, so to speak. I find it's best to do your own research and come to conclusions yourself and not rely on all of these so called "studies" to make your decisions. They're mostly pushed by people who want their own personal biases and agendas out there. And anyone, vegetarian, vegan, paleo, whatever, who claims they have the "end all be all" diet, I would be a little wary. I haven't looked into The China Study yet, but I've been personally dabbling with paleo for a few weeks now to see how it would make me feel. So far I've only removed grains (however I've had beer a few times), but I feel great. My blood pressure has also dropped pretty significantly, though I haven't had any other blood work done yet. Some other inflammatory issues have since subsided. There could be other factors at play, but I would say experiment on yourself and go from there.

I watched this yesterday. It's Robb Wolf, the author of The Paleo Solution, talking about the paleo diet. He used to be a research biochemist. It's long, but I found it pretty interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PpuIKTg6QE

Calliope610

But my view is that ANY diet that removed refined grains from your diet and sugars is bound to have positive effects on your body and well being? Is eating such large amounts of meat based protein necessary? I am not entirely convinced.

I agree in eating grass fed meats, organic eggs etc... I am just not convinced that removing legumes and all grains is entirely healthy. Wheat, absolutely. I have not seen ANY research that tells me wheat is necessary. I have been wheat free for nearly a year and it has had a huge impact on my well being.

When I see statements like that, I have to wonder if going wheat free was the one and only change to your diet and lifestyle in the past year? If not, how can you state with certainty that any impact on your health and well being is due to a wheat free diet?

pandafoo

A few days ago, Robb Wolf who authored "Paleo Solution" posted an article about skeptics who don't take Paleo seriously because of the lack of evidence-based medicine, and what his response is: http://robbwolf.com/2013/03/15/evidence-based-medicine-fraud-double-standards-ignorance/

It is a very worthwhile read, as are the comments to the article.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

Source? Lancet didn't mention that as the cause.

You are perfectly capable of looking up the sources for yourself. I no longer do the research for others. If you want to know, read and research for yourself.

So, instead you just post info that could be totally made up for all anyone knows? Seems legit.

OP, The China Study has been pretty thoroughly debunked and that should not be hard to research. That is what Dave tried to tell you but you dismissed it. If you want to eat as you state, just do it. There is no need to follow one diet or another. Make the choices you think are best and just do it.

I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I state what I have read and researched myself. Do the work yourself. I am done trying to prove anything on this website to a bunch of close-minded people that really don't want to learn, but merely argue with others.

I am done, done, done.

mmapags

I read an article the other day by (I think, I really can't recall) an evolutionary biologist talking about the Paleo diet. This person said that we don't need to eat like Paleo man because we're NOT Paleo man. For example, we evolved the ability to digest the lactose in cows' milk ~10,000 years ago, so now it IS a natural part of our diet. And the ability to digest lactose probably led to increased survival of populations that could now incorporate a new, high calorie food source into their diets.

Also, an article published in Lancet showed that atherosclerosis was common in mummies of several cultures, sort of negating the idea that it's a disease caused by our crappy modern diets.

Atherosclerosis was found in mummies due to the high grain intake they consumed.

Source? Lancet didn't mention that as the cause.

You are perfectly capable of looking up the sources for yourself. I no longer do the research for others. If you want to know, read and research for yourself.

So, instead you just post info that could be totally made up for all anyone knows? Seems legit.

OP, The China Study has been pretty thoroughly debunked and that should not be hard to research. That is what Dave tried to tell you but you dismissed it. If you want to eat as you state, just do it. There is no need to follow one diet or another. Make the choices you think are best and just do it.

I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks. I state what I have read and researched myself. Do the work yourself. I am done trying to prove anything on this website to a bunch of close-minded people that really don't want to learn, but merely argue with others.

I am done, done, done.

Bye!