Paleo vs The China Study - What are your views?

geebusuk

They both seem to be trying to justify an arbitrary viewpoint by questionable means.

For the China study, there's some excellent in-depth analysis of it here from someone that does seem to know what they're talking about and actually supports this sort of life style (as opposed to being a butcher, or something )
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Delicate

Why not just find out what changed in the general diets that made people starting getting bigger and fatter?

Why was virtuely noone overweight during wars? cause they were on rations

Why were people thin prior sugar being available everywhere? cause sugar was expensive, so if you were fat or overweight you were seen to have money

Maybe peoples children and childrens childrens genes changed because of such limitations on diets, and find out what made them fat in the first place incase of constantly doing it to present times.

Lugemes make my gassy, so its in everyones best interests i avoid them.

MercenaryNoetic26

Bump

EPICUREASIAN

"Science is facts; just as houses are made of stones, so is science made of facts; but a pile of stones is not a house and a collection of facts is not necessarily science." -- Henri Poincaré

geebusuk

They both seem to be trying to justify an arbitrary viewpoint by questionable means.

For the China study, there's some excellent in-depth analysis of it here from someone that does seem to know what they're talking about and actually supports this sort of life style (as opposed to being a butcher, or something )
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

Seems that link has already been discussed - skimmed a bit too much, it seems.

Her about page lists a lot of useful background:
http://rawfoodsos.com/about/

Her later response to his response provides 129 citations (though many the same, of course) to back up her analysis.

Kanuenue

One thing that both diets agree on- chemical additives and processed added sugars act negatively in the body, whole foods are better for overall nutrition and health. That's not so revolutionary, but still good advice.

Other than that, humans have been successful with a wide range of dietary choices. It is one of the reasons we are so successful as a species. There is little evidence to support that this promoted dietary time frame (paleolithic) in human history is accurate let alone ideal for human health. The China study was also questioned for it's conclusions when there is a very large variance in demographic results.

Most humans will be successful in weight maintenance if they eat whole food that they enjoy, and not too much of any one thing/macro. Easy.

geebusuk

Most humans will be successful in weight maintenance if they eat whole food that they enjoy, and not too much of any one thing/macro. Easy.

Also if they follow the same eating 'processed' food and follows 'IFIFYM' .
With exercise, they should be healthier than most people out there.

savithny

I think that all the focus on "the perfect diet" is skipping the most important part of the equation: the perfect activity level.

Forget lining obesity statistics up with corn syrup or sugar subsidies or wheat consumption. Line it up with the introduction of TV, with the introduction of cable TV, with the birth of the internet. With NCLB and the resulting cancellation of recess and gym class. With offshoring manufacturing jobs and replacing them with call centers.

As a species, we used to be a whole lot more active than we used to be. Don't look at "exercise" as a formal thing. Just look at how much people were moving rather than sitting. The average American puts less than 5,000 steps a day on a pedometer. That's officially "sedentary." An Amish housewife is 3 times as as active, reflecting the level of activity that was probably quite typical for the last several hundred, or even several thousand, years.

The average American claims that they get 30 minutes of moderate exercise several times a week, yet somehow on any given day, only 5% of Americans report getting any vigorous exercise at all. When you put accelerometers on average americans who claim they get plenty of moderate exercise, you find that while 50% claim to get 150 minutes a week? Only 3.5 percent are actually getting even that minimal amount of exercise.

StevenjHaley

However, I have also done my research into those against such a diet, based around the China Study that promotes a diet free from animal products based on significant scientific and medical research by some of the top minds in the nutrition field including T. Colin Campbell and Caldwell Esselstyn. (Watch the documentary Forks over Knives)

I'll have a read up on this tomorrow as its bed time but "the China Study that promotes a diet free from animal products" whether that works or not is one thing but whether it's Chinese or not is another. I live in China and the Chinese seem to eat everything that moves!

bostonwolf

I was a vegetarian, near vegan for almost 20 years. When I was in my twenties it worked just fine. by 40 I couldn't help but see that I had no energy, I was putting on tons of weight, I was utterly fatigued all the time. As I was beginning to experiment with adding in a little meat, my husband red the China Study and became fascinated. I started to read it but so many basic flaws in the causation that was being presumed which was actually just correlation. Believe me, i wanted to believe it b/c i validated what I'd been spouting since I'd been 17. I also was in love with Kris Carr's book Crazy Sexy Diet (more kudos to the vegan side) Of course, over the next few years the China Study research was widely debunked. Anyone switched from the SAD to China Study eating would certainly get healthier though. Then I had the pleasure of hearing both Gary Taubes and Mark Sisson speak. This stuff was against my grain, but they made fundamental sense. I had to read more. (I've come to not love Sisson as much). Then I read It Starts With Food (more Paleo) by the Hartwigs (this is perhaps the most entertaining and and went from now mostly vegetarian to doing their 30 day all whole foods, high quality Paleo. I never felt better in my life. I was sold! I have since come to understand that there isn't one true diet, but rather, there's what helps each person thrive best, and is sustainable at this particular moment in our lives. Once I found this brilliant article my Natasha Campbell-McBride, I got it. I could clearly see how it all fits together. And this is what has resonated in my own body, which is the only way we can really know what is true for us

http://www.doctor-natasha.com/feeding-versus-cleansing.php

I agree with you completely-- I watched a talked Gary Taubes gave on why people get fat and he really gave some interesting food for thought on fat accumulation being more complicated than thermodynamics.

Agree, and I'm always amazed at how few people understand the difference between causation and correlation. Even research scientists who should know better.

I do a version of the Primal diet (I add in beans) and that has worked wonders for me in terms of having steady energy through the day and losing body fat. I don't feel deprived and have tons of energy for working out.

Conclusion: It works for me. Everyone should try to figure out what works for them and then act accordingly. None of the diets talked about on this thread are going to cause you any harm, and just about all of them are healthier than the Standard American Diet.

sallydurkin

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