BMR and TDEE Explained for Those Needing a Guide

heybales

I cannot understand why weight loss has become so complicated lately. Do we really need online calculators and formulas to figure out how many calories to eat?? For generations, we have been able to survive and maintain or lose weight without the help of the internet to tell us how many calories to eat.

Online calculators vary drastically because they are ALL estimates of other people's BMR/TDEEs. Finding a higher number on a website is not going to make your body start burning more calories so you can eat more. We should all have a fairly good idea of how many calories we eat to maintain our weight. If we want to lose 1 pound a week, then subtract 500 calories from that number and see how that works. If you are losing too quickly, or are getting too hungry and tired, then eat a little more. If you are not losing any weight, then eat a little less.

It really should not be this complicated.

It could be that simple.

Is your current eating level still making you gain weight, or are you maintaining?
If gaining, by how much weekly (lbs gained x 3500 / 7 = calories over TDEE)?

Now find some food every day that equals 500 calories and if gaining that extra amount, and stop eating it.

Simple as that. No change to behavior or activity, just eating less for what you maintained at.

Problem is people are changing many variables at once.
Eating better, which usually by itself means less.
Exercising now, which changes that side of the equation.

So ya, if you want it sustainable and ending well, you gotta get some estimates now.

Log_n_Jog

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childrenrus

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kmcosgrove115

To the poster asking about eating at TDEE for a bit or eating at TDEE less the % - that is up to you - some have argued that a true metabolic reset means eating at TDEE for 6 weeks to have it re-learn and then they do a RESET at the % lower - in either scenario, when you are coming from that super low 1200, your body eating at TDEE or TDEE less the % is going to have to adjust and learn.

A friend of mine on here who is WFPB as well decided to do a full reset for 6 weeks before cutting back 20% - everything she read indicates a full TDEE first is the way to go - but many say that bump alone to TDEE less the % will also work, esp when you are coming from that low 1200.

I think that TDEE less my 20%, that my body will adjust and learn within weeks - I will weigh in a week or so and tweak if needed at the 6 week mark but I have read alot on the boards reg TDEE less 20% and the metabolism does restart and burn in a few weeks - much is patience and time and giving the body the time it needs to recalibrate so monitoring every week seems like it is too often.

So that is a toss up - either way, you are giving the body more to turn back on - and personally as I go into week 3 at my new calorie adjustment, I have my time of the month now but I just put on a pair of jeans that have not fit in ages (at least 1 size smaller) and buckling my belt - I used to be at notch 3 - today I was at the 5th notch. So when I do weigh after the time of month passes, even if the scale has moved slightly (I believe it will move more), I KNOW clothes fit better, my stomach has collapsed, my leg muscles in the thigh and calves are now visible and defined so the shape is changing and shifting. I also feel hot alot after I eat - metabolism on and burning now after it gets food?? Maybe - never had the "hot" before...........

I will surely post next weigh in or any change in clothes again so an update is here on this thread and of course, if anyone on here re-sets and sees results, post here too as this will really help people to consider eating more to lose more!

jassyjan1

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mariehamid

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Stephiestephs

I think I will do the katch method with lightly active and -20 for a little bit and see how it goes. I measured myself in the morning before I bloat up from eating to try and get a as true as possible measurement it got me 2% closer to the Harris # but to be on safe side I will do katch. 1529 calories a day, is not much more than the bmr for Harris method which is 1505. And tdee for katch is 1966 so I might do 1600 to be under 366 cal under katch tdee but almost 100 over Harris bmr.
Wow I just made this way more complicated. No one look at my post!!!!! Sorry lol!!!

I am starting to get annoyed at fat 2 for site for giving two different bmr's!!!!!!! It took me three days to decide which activity level to choose and now this? I have to figure out which bmr to use

Well, that's the problem trying to use that site for getting current weight TDEE.

Since the purpose of that site is to give goal weight TDEE, which means an automatic deficit to current weight TDEE, you cannot use the Katch BMR though it is more accurate.

Why?

Because how will you know what your BF% will be at goal weight? It would be great to retain all your LBM, but if you did that, your Katch BMR stays the same.
So current weight and goal weight BMR based on Katch with same LBM would be exactly the same. So you would be eating at current weight TDEE if Katch was used.

So they use least accurate Harris BMR, which I've seen inflation of the BMR by 200-400 in many cases, which makes the TDEE off by 400-600.
So even if you take a deficit of 20% off that inflated TDEE, you are actually not getting any deficit from better estimated TDEE.

Use scooby's site, or any other number of sites.

Or this spreadsheet to give best estimate of BF%, BMR, TDEE calculator besides 5 levels to choose from, and track your progress.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/813720-spreadsheet-bmr-tdee-deficit-macro-calcs-hrm-zones

And if you like the idea of eating at goal weight, it includes a Eating for Future You method there.

Thanks heybales, I have taken a look at that spreadsheet but I am working on an iPad here and I don't know/ think I can access it on an iPad?? But you think scooby's is more accurate?

sabolfitwife

Thank you so much for putting it in words we can understand! I am going to take measurements and calculate my numbers tomorrow morning!! I've been feeling very lethargic lately and I've upped my workout sessions the last two weeks so im wondering if im not eating enough in relation to how much im burning.

heybales

Well, that's the problem trying to use that site for getting current weight TDEE.

Since the purpose of that site is to give goal weight TDEE, which means an automatic deficit to current weight TDEE, you cannot use the Katch BMR though it is more accurate.

Why?

Because how will you know what your BF% will be at goal weight? It would be great to retain all your LBM, but if you did that, your Katch BMR stays the same.
So current weight and goal weight BMR based on Katch with same LBM would be exactly the same. So you would be eating at current weight TDEE if Katch was used.

So they use least accurate Harris BMR, which I've seen inflation of the BMR by 200-400 in many cases, which makes the TDEE off by 400-600.
So even if you take a deficit of 20% off that inflated TDEE, you are actually not getting any deficit from better estimated TDEE.

Use scooby's site, or any other number of sites.

Or this spreadsheet to give best estimate of BF%, BMR, TDEE calculator besides 5 levels to choose from, and track your progress.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/813720-spreadsheet-bmr-tdee-deficit-macro-calcs-hrm-zones

And if you like the idea of eating at goal weight, it includes a Eating for Future You method there.

Thanks heybales, I have taken a look at that spreadsheet but I am working on an iPad here and I don't know/ think I can access it on an iPad?? But you think scooby's is more accurate?

Yes you can using the My Drive app.
https://support.google.com/drive/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2761244

If you go to Scooby's Most Accurate with a bodyfat % and use the Katch BMR method, same thing.
Spreadsheet gives tab for tracking the bodyfat% measurements, and basis a deficit on time and type of workout.
And the TDEE Activity Calculator can be easier than guessing at 2 or 3 levels of a wide range of calories.

Here is way to get BF% to take to Scooby.
http://www.gymgoal.com/dtools.html

dixiewhiskey

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Stephiestephs

Well, that's the problem trying to use that site for getting current weight TDEE.

Since the purpose of that site is to give goal weight TDEE, which means an automatic deficit to current weight TDEE, you cannot use the Katch BMR though it is more accurate.

Why?

Because how will you know what your BF% will be at goal weight? It would be great to retain all your LBM, but if you did that, your Katch BMR stays the same.
So current weight and goal weight BMR based on Katch with same LBM would be exactly the same. So you would be eating at current weight TDEE if Katch was used.

So they use least accurate Harris BMR, which I've seen inflation of the BMR by 200-400 in many cases, which makes the TDEE off by 400-600.
So even if you take a deficit of 20% off that inflated TDEE, you are actually not getting any deficit from better estimated TDEE.

Use scooby's site, or any other number of sites.

Or this spreadsheet to give best estimate of BF%, BMR, TDEE calculator besides 5 levels to choose from, and track your progress.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/813720-spreadsheet-bmr-tdee-deficit-macro-calcs-hrm-zones

And if you like the idea of eating at goal weight, it includes a Eating for Future You method there.

Thanks heybales, I have taken a look at that spreadsheet but I am working on an iPad here and I don't know/ think I can access it on an iPad?? But you think scooby's is more accurate?

Yes you can using the My Drive app.
https://support.google.com/drive/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2761244

If you go to Scooby's Most Accurate with a bodyfat % and use the Katch BMR method, same thing.
Spreadsheet gives tab for tracking the bodyfat% measurements, and basis a deficit on time and type of workout.
And the TDEE Activity Calculator can be easier than guessing at 2 or 3 levels of a wide range of calories.

Here is way to get BF% to take to Scooby.
http://www.gymgoal.com/dtools.html

Thank you, I used the average bf% that it gave me. Was that the right idea? Then with katch I got 1603 cals/ day. Then I compared what mifflin and Harris came up with and what was interesting as the cals went up with each other method the weight loss also went up. You would think less cals in more weight lost. Harris gives you the most cals/ day and projects more of a weight loss?

heybales

Thank you, I used the average bf% that it gave me. Was that the right idea? Then with katch I got 1603 cals/ day. Then I compared what mifflin and Harris came up with and what was interesting as the cals went up with each other method the weight loss also went up. You would think less cals in more weight lost. Harris gives you the most cals/ day and projects more of a weight loss?

You use the avg, which may float around a bit until the accuracy of the 2 calcs hones in.

Which will have higher weight loss potential just looking at numbers?
20% of 1800 - 360
20% of 2000 - 400
20% of 2200 - 440

So of course the bigger number show better weight loss potential. Does it mean you'll get it?

Now, if 1800 TDEE is correct in reality, and 2200 is inflated, now which is more of a loss?
Eating 1760 from inflated 2200 TDEE, but in reality only 40 less than real TDEE?

Stephiestephs

Thank you, I used the average bf% that it gave me. Was that the right idea? Then with katch I got 1603 cals/ day. Then I compared what mifflin and Harris came up with and what was interesting as the cals went up with each other method the weight loss also went up. You would think less cals in more weight lost. Harris gives you the most cals/ day and projects more of a weight loss?

You use the avg, which may float around a bit until the accuracy of the 2 calcs hones in.

Which will have higher weight loss potential just looking at numbers?
20% of 1800 - 360
20% of 2000 - 400
20% of 2200 - 440

So of course the bigger number show better weight loss potential. Does it mean you'll get it?

Now, if 1800 TDEE is correct in reality, and 2200 is inflated, now which is more of a loss?
Eating 1760 from inflated 2200 TDEE, but in reality only 40 less than real TDEE?

Lmao!! For someone who has always hated math I can't believe how much I have been dealing with it over the last week!!
So, you are right, if i use an inflated number i will not have much of a deficit.
Anyway, scooby says to use mifflin numbers if you are just starting out, katch if you are already lean and muscular. So 1600-1700 for my numbers is katch - mifflin number so I guess that is what I will shoot for? Instead of eating my cals I will eat 1600 if I don't excersize that day and 1700 if I do even though I calculated for light activity.

Vailara

I wonder if that is true (about Mifflin being better for less lean people)? I've been using Katch as it's supposedly the most accurate. Mifflin would give me a higher figure, but not drastically higher.

Weighinginwithmy02

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rockymtnlove

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indygal76

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gigglebabe101

Thanks for this!!

imchicbad

After posting and learning about BMR and TDEE from some great people on this forum, I finally got the full understanding of BMR and TDEE. I just emailed a friend at work all that I learned as we changed our lifestyle and eating at the same time - I thought a copy of my email may help those in the forum seeking a "dummies guide" to BMR and TDEE..............hope it helps!


Ok, now second, BMR and TDEE:

So in wanting to lose weight, people get confused and frustrated early on when doing a diet or making a lifestyle shift like being plant strong. Initially, esp on this way of eating, we all had big drops - much of that is due to inflammation from the bad food we were ingesting or water weight.

The mind set you have to force yourself into and reiterate is that realistically, weight should come off slow as your body re-learns how to get nutrients and burn off fat again. Your body does not care that you want to drop "x" amount of weight in so many months - it's only job is survival.

So, like many, I thought with my online tracking system thru MyFitnessPal.com, that I should listen to it's "recommendations" (and many docs say this too), to restrict not only portion size but amount of calorie intake to 1200 a day. The problem is that many of us require 1500 or more a day to simply live, to keep our heart beating, to make the brain work - at minimum we need 1500 or more given to us if we were lying in a coma in the hospital.

Given that fact, what we are told with 1200 cal / day is simply false and very detrimental to our body. Some call it "starvation mode" but a more accurate description would be "nutrient deficient." The body looks at that 1200 calories and says, ok, I need (in my case to get specific) 1529 a day to keep you living and breathing and you are giving me 1200, a 300 deficit.

So, in order to keep you living and breathing, again, body NOT caring about weight loss, the body will slow or stop some other systems (metabolism being the 1st it stops) and hang on to those 1200 calories b/c all it knows is that you are under-feeding it and so it must "hoard" that 1200, store it as fat and keep you alive. You essentially are stopping the metabolic process to a halt when you under eat.

If you can get your head around that concept, then it becomes easy to see, much like a cell phone needing to be charged to turn on and work, your body, your metabolism, NEEDS at minimum that 1529 (in my case) and MORE to really work efficiently, keep me alive AND burn and lose weight. That 1529 # is called "BMR" - basal metabolic rate.

To figure out what your individual BMR is, there are many online calculators - trust me I think I found them all. And although no two will be identical, as I ran my #'s, the results were fairly close to 1529. I read a very informative post on MFP reg this topic and the site they recommend is this:

http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/

And specifically, to get your most accurate BMR, they ask first, that you run the Military Body Fat Calculator:

http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/mbf/

That will require your:

sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
neck measurement (in inches)
waist measurement (in inches)
hip measurement (in inches)

When you submit this info, the system will generate your true body fat %. Jot that % down on a piece of paper, then go to their BMR calculator link at:

http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/

And plug in:

age
sex
height (in inches)
weight (in pounds)
GOAL weight (in pounds)
and that body fat % you just wrote

Now, a caveat - for GOAL weight, they ask that you enter in your current weight again - the reason being that when you enter your true GOAL weight, the system will show you a BMR to eat at so that when you reach that GOAL, you are used to and continue to eat at that calorie / day. It will work and it is accurate however, the weight loss will be slow and many of us are not patient enough to do it that way.

When you enter your current weight as GOAL, it will generate what they call TDEE - total daily energy expenditure. THAT # is important as it tells you, taking into account your personal information, not only the minimum BMR to stay alive, but the amount of calories per day you need to MAINTAIN at the weight you are at RIGHT NOW.

The best way to lose weight a bit faster then the above with true GOAL weight AND still doing it at a healthy pace, is to take that TDEE # from the chart that will generate and less out a % which will give you an accurate amount to eat per day to lose weight.

On the chart will be multiple lines describing activity levels - as much as I work at a desk job, I have used a pedometer for the large corporation I work in along with kids and shuffling all day and can log in 5-7K in steps per day. So appearances say pick "desk job" but much again has been discussed on the activity level and the one common thread and mistake people make at this critical calculation is underestimating their activity level.

If you say you work out 1 hour a day maybe 2-3 times a week at most and consider that "little exercise," what do you do with the other 23 hours in your day? You work, walk, run kids here and there, chores around the house, etc.

So the mantra being said is unless you literally lay in bed all day every day, if you have little exercise but go to work and do other things that keep you moving in some way (even showering burns calories), everyone at the minimum should be selecting "light" activity or higher. So pick a truly accurate level and consider all the things you do all day.

So, let's do real life example:

my BMR is 1529 (I now know I must eat AT LEAST that per day minimum)

I work at desk job but again, I walk easily 5-7K steps a day with work and kids, so I look at the "light" activity line

my TDEE right now at my current weight is 2116 - that is the "light" activity line # for my measurements, stats, body fat %, etc for my weight RIGHT NOW (which will change) - if I ate 2116 every day my body would stay at the same weight - this is what you would eat to not change your weight

but like many, I want to lose - I love the plant strong health benefits for sure, but I do want to lose

what you do then is take your particular TDEE # (2116) from the chart and less out a %

the general rule of thumb is, if you want to lose:

5-10 pounds, less out 10%
10-20 pounds, less out 15%
20 or more pounds, less out 20%

anything higher in % is really for people who have undergone gastric surgeries and going higher could potentially put your body back in that "nutrient deficient" mode so 20% is about what most use as a healthy guide

now, 2116 x 20% would give me 423 - I deduct that 423 from 2116 and get:

1693

that 1693 is now my calories per day to eat that will not only maintain my BMR (which I know is 1529) but will also allow me to eat UNDER the 2116 TDEE for my weight right now - that concept is what they call "eat more to weigh less" and it goes contrary to what we all learned as far as losing weight - I am still learning to accept this as fact and EAT more.

So, now that has me eating 20% under 2116 to lose (1693) but ABOVE my BMR so that my body learns I am not starving it, that it should not "hoard" the calories and keep the fat and eventually the body will release the fat.

Many people looking to lose weight fall into this trap where they have eaten so little for so long that the body has to re-learn and reset the metabolism - in fact, some believe a true "reset" would be to eat at the TDEE # (2116) for 6 weeks or so and only THEN drop off a %.

Either way, knowing this exact # will surely get you to where you want to be - it's just that your body trying to survive may take a few weeks to understand you are not going to deprive it any more and it CAN let go of the fat as it understands it will always be fed and nourished to the point it is not panicked and storing it all.............make sense?

Where I am personally is going into 6 weeks plant strong (YAY!) and almost 2 weeks at my re-adjusted 1680 per day calorie - I did the 1200 and many days below that for those first few weeks so my body must re-learn.

I may have 4 weeks yet for my body to truly learn and let go of the fat and to burn all the time. It is hard b/c you want it NOW but gaining weight took a while and so will losing it. In fact, some have a slight gain while the metabolism is resetting so be warned, do not panic, it means the body is changing the way you need it to change to burn fat.

The body just needs the time to re-learn so, for me, I will wait the 6 weeks if needed, keep eating whole food plant based, ignoring the scale as much as I can and wait - it WILL drop off - it is logic, the body must and will change and let go eventually.

Last note on TDEE, as you lose weight, maybe every 5-10 lbs, return to the site that gives you the calculations and reassess your TDEE as the more you lose, the more that # will change and this way you are always eating right AT where you should and following the eating you need so you are never too far under and thwarting your body back into being nutrient deficient and stalled.

I have also noticed although I lost 13 lbs in about 5 weeks, the weight loss now is slower but I swear my shape is changing - dresses and pants fit that were too snug before, I see definition in my thigh and calf muscles that were not there - this is probably why if you can get away from the scale numbers, many take and rely only on measurements of their body and even if the scale is stalled or moves slowly, you are losing inches which means the body is starting to turn on and change and burn and create a much leaner version of you...........

Dan is the man, Im glad you got his help. If you really need more information heres the link


>>>>>IMPORTANT!!! To get your numbers right please visit---> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912914-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013 <---read the instructions. I lay everything out to help you have a true fat burning diet.<<<<<<<

preshusgem

Bumpity bump bump. :happy:

mmurph102

Bump for later

kosuski

*bump* need to measure when I get home--Thanks for the info!

leenie96

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Louttie

bump for later

tmpayton

tks!

heybales

Lmao!! For someone who has always hated math I can't believe how much I have been dealing with it over the last week!!
So, you are right, if i use an inflated number i will not have much of a deficit.
Anyway, scooby says to use mifflin numbers if you are just starting out, katch if you are already lean and muscular. So 1600-1700 for my numbers is katch - mifflin number so I guess that is what I will shoot for? Instead of eating my cals I will eat 1600 if I don't excersize that day and 1700 if I do even though I calculated for light activity.

Ah, fun with numbers.

Katch should be used if possible. It actually underestimates a tad when carrying more ratio of fat to non-fat than avg healthy level. But that's OK at start. Those are close enough then doesn't matter as much.

You would actually eat the same amount every day. Your level of weekly exercise is being avg out to daily basis if you are honest with level. So rest days eating more makes up for workout days being less than desired.
If you only do 3 hrs of exercise a week and otherwise sedentary desk job, then Lightly Active is it.
If that's not honest activity level, you won't benefit from this trying not to stress your body with under-eating for level of activity.

piyuK

bump for later..

kmcosgrove115

Dan SO helped me understand all this to type it out in plain English! I am almost at week 3, still nervous, feeling like I am maintaining but, a big BUT, I just got into my size smaller jeans AND went from notch 3 to notch 5 on my belt - if the scale has moved slightly or stayed, something is surely shifting b/c clothes fit better, shape is changing - it's my TOTM so waiting to weigh for a bit.

The other thing many probably do not affiliate with weight is turning on metabolism AND immune system - I am an asthmatic and last year (2012) had 7 (yes SEVEN) lung infections and antibiotics - was even out on STD for a bit I was so sick. Switched to plant based around 2/8 (last infection was mid Jan 2013) - no illness but late last week (around 3/21) my neck felt swollen on right side, it hurt, my throat hurt on right side and right ear hurt.............

It was a swollen lymph node - I know, sounds dumb, but I had never had ANY immune system to know what a swollen node felt like and why - I had no stuffy nose or pounding head or asthma - just this sore spot on my neck - it was system (that immune system that was shut off for years) working to fight a cold or illness - had a little cough and tickle but functional - I have NEVER been sick so mildly and like this - this is an absolute first.

I really believe eating the last 2 months plant based gave me back the immune system and that this is a sign the metabolism is sure to follow, esp with getting in my smaller jeans and the belt notch - I am now out of belt holes.............pumping in fruit, veggies, grains, legumes - all whole food, no meat, no dairy and no oil - with B12 supp of course, I am battling a cold the way most do - you have no idea how SICK I always got and how unbelievably different this is - cannot wait for my PCP to run BW in June!

Just an affirmation of good health all the way thru and I now I know why my skin is so soft like a baby's bottom - it is the LAST outward factor you see once truly detoxified - I cannot stop touching myself! LOL!

Stephiestephs

Lmao!! For someone who has always hated math I can't believe how much I have been dealing with it over the last week!!
So, you are right, if i use an inflated number i will not have much of a deficit.
Anyway, scooby says to use mifflin numbers if you are just starting out, katch if you are already lean and muscular. So 1600-1700 for my numbers is katch - mifflin number so I guess that is what I will shoot for? Instead of eating my cals I will eat 1600 if I don't excersize that day and 1700 if I do even though I calculated for light activity.

Ah, fun with numbers.

Katch should be used if possible. It actually underestimates a tad when carrying more ratio of fat to non-fat than avg healthy level. But that's OK at start. Those are close enough then doesn't matter as much.

You would actually eat the same amount every day. Your level of weekly exercise is being avg out to daily basis if you are honest with level. So rest days eating more makes up for workout days being less than desired.
If you only do 3 hrs of exercise a week and otherwise sedentary desk job, then Lightly Active is it.
If that's not honest activity level, you won't benefit from this trying not to stress your body with under-eating for level of activity.

Activity level, I work out 4-5 times a week alternating incline walking with some hiit workouts. But never more than 30 min a day.

initforlife_cc

bump for later, thanks for posting!