Ketogenic Diet - How many carbs do you eat?

ellesab78

From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.

Ketoacidosis is the acidic state. Not ketosis. As for bone-density: Studies are inconclusive - there are as many that correlate ketogenic diets with loss-of-bone density (correlation is NOT causation) as there are that show no measurable affect whatsoever.

OK so ketones from ketosis are acidic and prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis. Why risk your bone density?

I have been battling obesity for more than 10yrs and have recently been told I am insulin resistant and I am only 34. I have been eating clean and mostly organic up until then for the past year and only lost 2kgs in that whole time. When told about my insulin resistance which is linked to my poly cystic ovarian syndrome, the doctor decided to treat me with diet and exercise instead of medication (shocking I know). So I've done EXTENSIVE research on the best diet which happens to be a ketogenic diet. In 2 months I have lost over 10kgs, gained lots of energy, manage to workout 7 days a week and cut my cravings to ZERO! Unlike glucose which if not used by the body for energy gets stored as fat for later use thanks to good old insulin the fat storing hormone. Ketones on the other hand if not used all up by the body will be exreated through the urine. So therefore it's very rare and hard for the body to enter ketoacidosis. In fact there are people on carb laden diets who are probably more acid than Keto people. There is also evidence that the brain actually prefers ketones since they have production sites which produce their own ketones! Please do your proper research before bagging ketogenic diets. They are also used to treat cancer patients (as the diet helps starve the glucose loving cancer cells) and has been used since the 1920s to treat epileptics. Google a surgeon by the name of Peter Attia. He has a great site that explains extensively the benefits of ketosis is which HEAPS of scientific evidence to back it up.

Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.

It depends on the individual. The clinically obese, especially as they get older, are more-prone to insulin-resistance than others. So even without a Dx of diabetes, the obese are often insulin-resistant and NEED to reduce carbohydrate.

Insulin resistance causes high levels of circulating insulin in the blood, which is clinically shown to both 1) cause cravings for carbohydrate and 2) is the hormone responsible for ingested carbohydrate to be stored as fat.

This is why so many obese people do well on a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) where others have failed them.

For those that enjoy carbohydrate, usually as the weight comes off, they can gradually increase the carbohydrate consumption and maintain weight loss. Those that go OFF the VLCKD have a tendency to gain it all back. Talk to anyone that used to be 350+ lbs and maintained weight loss - the almost all exclusively stayed low-carb.

They should eat slow digesting carbs with fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and they would lose weight.
I doubt almost all of them are low carb. If they go off the diet they will most likely gain the weight back like you said and they have to eat more carbs eventually or risk dying from acidosis. There are far better alternatives to losing weight.

ellesab78

I have been battling obesity for more than 10yrs and have recently been told I am insulin resistant and I am only 34. I have been eating clean and mostly organic up until then for the past year and only lost 2kgs in that whole time. When told about my insulin resistance which is linked to my poly cystic ovarian syndrome, the doctor decided to treat me with diet and exercise instead of medication (shocking I know). So I've done EXTENSIVE research on the best diet which happens to be a ketogenic diet. In 2 months I have lost over 10kgs, gained lots of energy, manage to workout 7 days a week and cut my cravings to ZERO! Unlike glucose which if not used by the body for energy gets stored as fat for later use thanks to good old insulin the fat storing hormone. Ketones on the other hand if not used all up by the body will be exreated through the urine. So therefore it's very rare and hard for the body to enter ketoacidosis. In fact there are people on carb laden diets who are probably more acid than Keto people. There is also evidence that the brain actually prefers ketones since they have production sites which produce their own ketones! Please do your proper research before bagging ketogenic diets. They are also used to treat cancer patients (as the diet helps starve the glucose loving cancer cells) and has been used since the 1920s to treat epileptics. Google a surgeon by the name of Peter Attia. He has a great site that explains extensively the benefits of ketosis is which HEAPS of scientific evidence to back it up.

wiljc3

I've spend the last couple months doing a lot of in-depth research about ketosis, here's where I'm at:

- I stay below 20g net carbs/day. Occasionally, I'll eat something that had more carbs than I expected (most recently it was cabbage) and go as high as 30g, but that's pretty rare because I usually put everything in MFP before I actually eat.
- My MFP settings are 5% carbs, 25% protein, 70% fat. I eat ~1800 calories/day and drink 3+ liters of water and I've lost 25 lbs in the last 6 weeks with a completely sedentary lifestyle. (My calorie deficit is not nearly large enough to cause that much loss if keto doesn't work.) Due to old injuries, my knees and ankles hurt far too much for me to exercise until I lose more weight, so I literally sit at my desk 95% of the time.
- The science is contrary to everything I've ever been taught by the American system, but it works. My weight is down. My blood pressure is down. My cholesterol is down. My energy level is up. I'm not hungry all the time like I used to be. Most importantly, I get to eat delicious foods that I love in the quantities I want.
- My gall bladder failed and was removed 7 years ago and I've had near-constant intestinal pain since. Until starting keto. Now I feel great... No pain. No days spent in the fetal position on the brink of tears. (Used to happen at least once every 2 weeks.) No sprinting to the bathroom 15 minutes after every meal. My digestive system works like a normal person's should. (Ironically, the most common cause of gall bladder failure in young people is not eating enough fat. Less than 30 grams/day puts you at risk.)

If you're still skeptical, listen to this guy: http://youtu.be/NqwvcrA7oe8

Wilhellmina

Ketogenic Diets are crazy. Why not just eat mostly fruits and vegetables with moderate amounts of fat and protein?

I learned today that fruits have tons of carbs. Avoid them like the plague

Good luck with looking good without them. heh

Odd when someone asks about keto diets there are always those people who have to tell us why they think it is not good and how stupid we are. That was not the question as far as I know?

Besides ever since I started with the keto diet I am way less bloated, the sacks under my eyes are gone, the cheeks are flatter, not looking like a hamster, my skin looks better, my hair is thicker and stopped falling out, so saying one does not look good without fruits is rubbish! There are enough veggies with the same vitamins and minerals, but way less carbs!

My0WNinspiration

50

KenScheper

Fruits have high levels of fructose, which is a simple sugar. Not good if someone is trying to lose weight. As for vegetables, there is a handful of carbs in them for one, and they are complex. These burn slower and do not spike insulin levels like simple carbs. The spiking of insulin is where the harm is for the most part, and what causes excess adipose tissue, aka, fat. As for ketosis, I just went into it today. This is something I have done many times. When you do not take in carbs, your body turns to protein and converts it to carbs, unless you workout and do cardio, then the proteins are used up to repair and build muscle tissue. So if you are exercising and using proteins, the body will turn to adipose tissue, which is actually stored carbs. When this tissue is used up, carb intake should be increased. Your body will continue to target carbs in the fat deposites vs the blood and liver.

Ketosis is not harmful if you stay in it for a LIMITED time. If you continue on it after you use up your fat reserves and do not take in carbs, your body will start to target muscle tissue. As for ketosis causing loss of bone density, that is simply not true. It is not biologically possible. And yes, ketosis and ketoacidosis are related. But ketoacidosis is a result of little or no insulin available to drive carbs out of the blood. As a result, the body goes into ketosis. But the harm is not the ketones, it is the extremely high levels of glucose in the blood. That is where the confusion between the two comes from. Controlled ketosis done through carb restriction is not harmful like ketoacidosis because there is no high levels of glucose in the blood.

I will say, it is better to incorporate exercise with the keto diet. You don't want to lose protein weight, which is muscle. If you do not exercise and put protein intake to good use, the body will convert it to carbs before it starts targeting fat. Ultimately, you should not be as concerned with weight loss on this diet as fat loss. The fact is, most people who lose weight and aren't exercising are not losing fat, they are losing muscle tissue, which is 4 times heavier than fat. That's sometimes why there is weight loss at such a high rate.

chong714

Im planning to start on a ketogenic diet! wish me luck! I will try to keep a journal of my progress to see what happens!!

ladymiseryali

I try to keep my net carbs under 30.

emmysusanne

Good luck! Just started this as well and try to keep under 50, but currently I'm still just under 70 on most days.

mo11ybloom

I try to keep mine under 20... on my best days, they stay below 10. I don't use any "fake" bread or sweets, which helps a lot... all my carbs come from veggies!

hookilau

I've eaten as many as 60g net per day and still pissed and breathed acetone.

The total amount you can ingest and still stay in ketosis will depend on your overall metabolism and daily caloric intake. As a big guy (I'm 6'3" and a true mesomorph - I'm usually around 220 when at 11% bodyfat) I can eat over 100g a day and maintain ketosis.

A 120lb woman, however, might have issues maintaining it at 60g ... I find 10% of calories from carbohydrate usually maintains ketosis for exercising individuals already-in a ketogenic state. A little bit lower for those who cannot (for whatever reason) exercise.

Sadly, that's me :ohwell:
I currently weigh around 138# and as I've lost weight, I've had to decrease my carbs to accordingly :brokenheart:
I need to stay below 30ish g :ohwell: Though this makes me kind of sad, it's easily sustainable with all the fat I consume, exercise and well, there's that pesky blood sugar monster that likes this particular number :blushing:

jillll1

I agree with everything you said. I'm hoping to read more posts by you. Thanks for the reminders. :O)

imimimimi

question- sorry if it is too basic. we are talking about NET CARB here right? Not total carb?
I eat about three heads of broccoli and three heads of iceberg a day! how much carb would that be?

Many thx x

astartig

OP... under 100 keeps you in ketosis... most start really low and do some pump workouts to burn out all the glycogen and get into ketosis dfast.. youll feel like crap til your body adjusts.... many do a TKD (targetted ketogenic diet) when they eat more carbs surrounding workouts.... You can do this and perform better in the gym while staying in keto... also, once youve been in keto for over a month people often jump out of keto (refeed) for a day or so just to let their body even out and improve training capacity... do your research

Keto isnt crazy but you should be doing some supplementation since you cant really eat much fruit.... I wouldnt make it a lifestyle, but, its fine for quite a while.... Some people do really well switching their energy source to fat... others never adjust

its the right answer for plenty of people.. especially overweight people who just dont have the capacity to eat carbs in moderation... (too big of a psychological bond)


im talking about eating the same amount of calories as woudl be suggested by any diet.... not some stupid fad diet that says eat whatever the F you want as long as its not carbs.. thats just stupid..

From what I read and heard, Ketosis makes the body acidic and you may lose bone density since the body uses minerals from bone to alkalize it.

its the right answer for plenty of people.. especially overweight people who just dont have the capacity to eat carbs in moderation... (too big of a psychological bond)

Why not try mostly fruits and vegetables if they normally eat mostly carbs? unless they are diabetic. I suppose fats are cheaper than fruits and vegetables.

There is a difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. I suggest you do a little more reading. try googling ketogenic diet.

hookilau

question- sorry if it is too basic. we are talking about NET CARB here right? Not total carb?
I eat about three heads of broccoli and three heads of iceberg a day! how much carb would that be?

Many thx x

I can't speak for anyone else, but no, that's not NET CARB, that's gross. 30 g of carb gross per day. While I can tolerate more carbs in the form of raw veggies, I get as much as I can but do not count the leafy greens. I probably eat about 2ish cups per day, which does not equate to much, but it works for me.

nagazim

Does Myfitnesspal carbs total = net carbs or gross carbs? I have been going by MFP's carb readout and eating <30g per day.

MermaidTX

Does Myfitnesspal carbs total = net carbs or gross carbs? I have been going by MFP's carb readout and eating <30g per day.

MFP's carb total = Gross. I changed my Sugar column to Fiber so I could easily figure Net carbs.

I often see foods in the database listed as 'Net Carbs' tho (whoever entered them already accounted for sugar alcohols & fiber I suppose).

nagazim

Thank you! Good suggestion about swapping sugar for fiber. So you subtract fiber from total carbs and that is your net carbs, correct?

ken_ferry77

"Fruits have high levels of fructose, which is a simple sugar. Not good if someone is trying to lose weight. As for vegetables, there is a handful of carbs in them for one, and they are complex. These burn slower and do not spike insulin levels like simple carbs. The spiking of insulin is where the harm is for the most part, and what causes excess adipose tissue, aka, fat. As for ketosis, I just went into it today. This is something I have done many times. When you do not take in carbs, your body turns to protein and converts it to carbs, unless you workout and do cardio, then the proteins are used up to repair and build muscle tissue. So if you are exercising and using proteins, the body will turn to adipose tissue, which is actually stored carbs. When this tissue is used up, carb intake should be increased. Your body will continue to target carbs in the fat deposites vs the blood and liver.

Ketosis is not harmful if you stay in it for a LIMITED time. If you continue on it after you use up your fat reserves and do not take in carbs, your body will start to target muscle tissue. As for ketosis causing loss of bone density, that is simply not true. It is not biologically possible. And yes, ketosis and ketoacidosis are related. But ketoacidosis is a result of little or no insulin available to drive carbs out of the blood. As a result, the body goes into ketosis. But the harm is not the ketones, it is the extremely high levels of glucose in the blood. That is where the confusion between the two comes from. Controlled ketosis done through carb restriction is not harmful like ketoacidosis because there is no high levels of glucose in the blood.

I will say, it is better to incorporate exercise with the keto diet. You don't want to lose protein weight, which is muscle. If you do not exercise and put protein intake to good use, the body will convert it to carbs before it starts targeting fat. Ultimately, you should not be as concerned with weight loss on this diet as fat loss. The fact is, most people who lose weight and aren't exercising are not losing fat, they are losing muscle tissue, which is 4 times heavier than fat. That's sometimes why there is weight loss at such a high rate"






Forgive me because I logged in and just copied and pasted with quotation marks . I mostly agree with this quote and I have been doing nutritional and physical training research for the past seven years. Now my research comes from self study, yes I actually take the time to read the boring scientific studies created at multiple universities(both sides of the arguement).

The differences I have with the post is when the word "Limited" was used. Ketosis is not harmful for long periods of times, which the defense is actually kind of stated in the next line. The poster goes on to state it is harmful because the state will use up all of your fat reserves and I agree losing all of your body fat can cause serious damage. The reason why it would not be harmful is because you are supposed to be on a high fat diet. If you fat intake is enough to sustain the proper nutrients needed for your organ functionality, then you don't have to worry about your body losing all of it's fat.

I agree that you need exercise, if you don't use it you will lose it. Like being laid up in the hospital in a bed, you will have muscle deteriation even if you are eating enough protein. The amount of protein intake is highly debatable, at some point your body turns the excess amount of protein into sugar. Your body can only process so much protein just like your liver can only process 50 grams of carbs in one day, the rest just goes to body fat after that(with exception of endurance exercise where it restores glyocen reserves). I have read that anywhere from 25 grams per meal(about 75 to100 a day) to a 3:1 body weight ratio is the right amount of protein. I personally have deduced that the 75 to a 1:1 body weight ratio is the ideal protein intake depending on your level of exercise for the necessary muscle repair. Read up on the protein synthesis process for details on how the body actually repairs/grows your muscles.

Ultimately I have found the number one problem in most diets and that is "SUGAR". Yes, you are going to get trace amounts from vegetables or low sugar berries( berries are more of a treat) but our body was never meant to use sugar as a macro nutrient. Basically are body was meant to run off of fat. Most people haven't read enough research on what sugar actually does to the body besides insulin sensitivity damage. Sugar invokes a process in our cells called "glycation", I am not sure if I have the right tense there. Glycation basically cause you cell to age, Yes people sugar makes our body age quicker. I will give a few references below for good nutritional information.

Mark Sisson- very educated in the nutrition and physical fitness, people he does his research( actual research).

Nora Gedgaudas- She writes a book that is highly technical(might be a hard read for people) Primal body, primal mind is the name of it(google it just to make sure, stuffed in my close somewhere ).

Brad Pilon- He writes a nice piece on protien synthesis. I agree with a lot of his physical fitness ideals, just not much on the nutrtional side.

That is just a few, if you don't want to do the actual research yourself they are pretty good and summing them up without any bias.

MermaidTX

Thank you! Good suggestion about swapping sugar for fiber. So you subtract fiber from total carbs and that is your net carbs, correct?

That's how I track it. My diary is open if you want to check it out.

Edit to add -- In the US labels include fiber in the carbs. In the UK (and maybe elsewhere) it's already subtracted.