Keto Diet
Replies
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If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
lolwut?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Sugar-Found-More-Addictive-Than-Cocaine-61862.shtml
Uhm. This barely classifies as a "study" ... and also, directly from it: " some researchers point out that these conclusions could not be applied directly to humans..."
smh...
:noway:
You are correct, in that this is a study involving rats. But it deserves looking deeper into for humans. However one can not deny the affect has a strong chance of being simaler. When I consume things that spike my insulin I feel hungary more often. That was my N=1 experiment a while back. Studies that show how insulin blocks leptin also prove why this happens.0 -
"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
If you are grossly obese as I was then you would maybe understand. Its not about getting to a number so much as getting rid of the 'obese' moniker. I agree with you that once you get to a maintenance phase keto isn't something to do perpetually. Its merely a tool to get the whole process started.0 -
That's not a study, it's an article. And I didn't see any mention of carbs being comparable to crack. And since I've never known anyone to lose a job, house, car, go to jail, get divorced, or take up prostitution over carbs, I'm going with an educated guess that the two "addictions" are not the same.
I would've (and should've) left my ex husband for carbs... HAHAHAHA. I would've been happier sooner. You know, cause carbs are like drugs and stuff..0 -
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
That's not a study, it's an article. And I didn't see any mention of carbs being comparable to crack. And since I've never known anyone to lose a job, house, car, go to jail, get divorced, or take up prostitution over carbs, I'm going with an educated guess that the two "addictions" are not the same.
I believe this is due to sugar being dirt cheap and everywhere.0 -
Ok I'll admit it. I'm so addicted to food that I eat every single day. Multiple times a day. And water... I hardly go anywhere without my water bottle. I'm a complete junky. I might as well be shooting heroin.
Damn shame there are people who are more interested in sarcasm and derailing a topic than constructive discussion.
Constructive discussion? We might as well be talking about what gives unicorns the ability to fly.
BRB, I need to go snort some sugar.0 -
You are correct, in that this is a study involving rats. But it deserves looking deeper into for humans. However one can not deny the affect has a strong chance of being simaler. When I consume things that spike my insulin I feel hungary more often. That was my N=1 experiment a while back. Studies that show how insulin blocks leptin also prove why this happens.
In your N=1 study, did you keep calories constant? Did you ensure adequate protein and fat intake?0 -
"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
If you are grossly obese as I was then you would maybe understand. Its not about getting to a number so much as getting rid of the 'obese' moniker. I agree with you that once you get to a maintenance phase keto isn't something to do perpetually. Its merely a tool to get the whole process started.
The other side of that is that when one is grossly obese, they have the advantage of being able to increase muscle mass, for a short period of time, while eating at a deficit.
You're right, I've never been at that weight. However, I still look at a keto diet for that situation as not necessary.0 -
You are correct, in that this is a study involving rats. But it deserves looking deeper into for humans. However one can not deny the affect has a strong chance of being simaler. When I consume things that spike my insulin I feel hungary more often. That was my N=1 experiment a while back. Studies that show how insulin blocks leptin also prove why this happens.
In your N=1 study, did you keep calories constant? Did you ensure adequate protein and fat intake?
I agree with Taso here. If you are eating balanced meals that include proteins, carbs, and fats, then insulin spikes shouldn't be a concern. While maintaining a calorie deficit.0 -
I only use this type when cutting for a show, 2 weeks out prior to my comp date. Great way to really get shredded. usually go for 10% carbs and 60% fat 30% protein. Great diuretic effect as well.
^^ when this guy talks, i listen lol.
2 weeks is enough to make a big difference?
I"m just terrified of eating all that fat, seems counter productive, but i guess you need to provide the alternative energy source.
Personally i think its probably best as a short term solutuion like used here.0 -
You are correct, in that this is a study involving rats. But it deserves looking deeper into for humans. However one can not deny the affect has a strong chance of being simaler. When I consume things that spike my insulin I feel hungary more often. That was my N=1 experiment a while back. Studies that show how insulin blocks leptin also prove why this happens.
In your N=1 study, did you keep calories constant? Did you ensure adequate protein and fat intake?
In my study I replaced high glycemic foods with low glycemic foods. Kept protein around 1/2 gram per lb of body weight and fat around %50 of my calories. After trying this for a month I found I could consistantly consume around the same number of calories every day without trying to. When I consumed foods that spiked my insulin I found I had to force myself to stop eating in order to keep to a specific calorie ammount.
For the gluconeogenesis thought line. It occurs when your protein intake is too high and fat intake too low. Aim for nutritional ketosis. Your body will not try to break protien into glucose if you have adiquate healthy fat consumption. Now adays I aim for around 90-100 grams of fat per day.
Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.0 -
That's not a study, it's an article. And I didn't see any mention of carbs being comparable to crack. And since I've never known anyone to lose a job, house, car, go to jail, get divorced, or take up prostitution over carbs, I'm going with an educated guess that the two "addictions" are not the same.
I would've (and should've) left my ex husband for carbs... HAHAHAHA. I would've been happier sooner. You know, cause carbs are like drugs and stuff..
lmao, the bread made me do it0 -
You are correct, in that this is a study involving rats. But it deserves looking deeper into for humans. However one can not deny the affect has a strong chance of being simaler. When I consume things that spike my insulin I feel hungary more often. That was my N=1 experiment a while back. Studies that show how insulin blocks leptin also prove why this happens.
In your N=1 study, did you keep calories constant? Did you ensure adequate protein and fat intake?
In my study I replaced high glycemic foods with low glycemic foods. Kept protein around 1/2 gram per lb of body weight and fat around %50 of my calories. After trying this for a month I found I could consistantly consume around the same number of calories every day without trying to. When I consumed foods that spiked my insulin I found I had to force myself to stop eating in order to keep to a specific calorie ammount.
For the gluconeogenesis though line. It occurs when your protein intake is too high and fat intake too low. Aim for nutritional ketosis. Your body will not try to break protien into glucose if you have adiquate healthy fat consumption. Now adays I aim for around 90-100 grams of fat per day.
By my math, that's not low carb at all. I eat about the same amount of carbs, more protein, and a bit less fat.
Anyway, glad you found something that works for you. Sorry it has to be so restrictive.0 -
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
That's not a study, it's an article. And I didn't see any mention of carbs being comparable to crack. And since I've never known anyone to lose a job, house, car, go to jail, get divorced, or take up prostitution over carbs, I'm going with an educated guess that the two "addictions" are not the same.
i posted 2 studies above...
I'll give them a look, but coming from someone who used to be a junkie, even if there's a similar effect, your going to have a hard time convincing me it's the SAME.0 -
i did p90x and the diet wants you to do 30% of your total calorie intake as carbs.
it was hard at first but i eventually found it satisfying.
I did experence rapid fat loss, but it seemed to tapper down towards the end of the month, only did that diet for a month.
I'm guessing you guys go way lower then 30%?
You experienced rapid water depletion and glycogen loss...
hard to say for sure what it was but why do you say 'rapid water depletion'?0 -
Tried this a long time ago. Lost tons of weight, but unfortunately had lots of digestive problems and rather unpleasant bowel movements (which are usually very rare for me). Tried eating lots of green vegetables but still had problems.
i have the opposite problem. on keto i have absolutely no digestive problems. when i eat carbs (especially starchy carbs) i have acid reflux.
my husband is the same way.0 -
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
Ok, I like sources, so I went to the source of that article, which just listed the author's bio. This is the first sentence:
"Jason Lincoln Jeffers is a spiritual counselor, life & wellness coach, philosopher, entrepreneur, intuitive astrologer, and authority on comparative religion, Jungian psychology, the chakra system, kundalini, alternative nutrition, holistic healing, the pain-body, personal manifestation, and the law of attraction."0 -
"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
it isn't really an issue as long as a person on keto is eating enough protein.0 -
Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapable of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.0 -
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
Ok, I like sources, so I went to the source of that article, which just listed the author's bio. This is the first sentence:
"Jason Lincoln Jeffers is a spiritual counselor, life & wellness coach, philosopher, entrepreneur, intuitive astrologer, and authority on comparative religion, Jungian psychology, the chakra system, kundalini, alternative nutrition, holistic healing, the pain-body, personal manifestation, and the law of attraction."
Seems legit....
0 -
Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapably of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.
I can't say that I totaly disagree with this. But I feel there is something to be said about how people's nutritional profile and health are greatly offput by the avoidence of fat, and overconsumption of carbs. I dont think carbs are bad, I just think the average person consumes too many and the in the wrong form.0 -
Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapable of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.
Very well said. As a former fat *kitten* I have learned WAY more in the past six months about diet and nutrition than I had ever known. And I consider myself a fairly educated and intelligent person. One of the biggest nutritional failures for the American people is the FDA's food pyramid and the stress on how bad fats are for you. You should have seen people's face when I was doing keto and described it as a high fat/low carb diet.0 -
"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
it isn't really an issue as long as a person on keto is eating enough protein.
Eating to much protein throws you out of ketosis. Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose. Once again there is no additional fat loss benefit doing ketosis.
This is why I posted earlier that the proper ratio is 65% fat, 35% protein, and 5% carbs for proper ketosis.0 -
"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
it isn't really an issue as long as a person on keto is eating enough protein.
Eating to much protein throws you out of ketosis. Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose. Once again there is no additional fat loss benefit doing ketosis.
I agree, too much protien is bad for this reason. But I completely disagree with the statement "Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose" My blood sugar monitor tells me when I consume low glycemic and upwards of 150-200 grams of protein, my fasting glucose is around 100-110. When I lower my protein intake to about 100 grams it is around 70. Also consuming more fat along with the protein helps change this number to be closer to 700 -
People are misunderstanding you.If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8697046Serotonin-releasing brain neurons are unique in that the amount of neurotransmitter they release is normally controlled by food intake: Carbohydrate consumption--acting via insulin secretion and the "plasma tryptophan ratio"--increases serotonin release
Serotonin is 5-HT. cocaine use
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12973400It has been known for a long time that the 5-HT transporter is one of the primary targets of cocaine within the brain and that cocaine causes an increase in the 5-HT activity in many brain regions
You guys should really know what you're talking about before bashing someone.
i understand what your trying to convey here, but just because they both effect serotonin, doesn't mean cocaine=carbs. Maybe you were just trying to explain what the other guy was saying in a less absurd way?
Either way, I'm with taso on the, you shouldn't do something if it makes you miserable just to lose weight. If your happy with what your doing than rock on.0 -
Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapable of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.
The problem is lack of activity i believe. Compare todays kids to when we where kids? We would go outside and play, todays kids play xbox 360 all day. Their mom brings them high calorie foods with low activity level, just pop things i the microwave. Lets drink soda too, it tastes good. For dinner, lets order chinese mom doesn't want to cook, it's so convenient.
People are just lazy now. I am one of them don't get me wrong, but... it's a big problem today that everything is so convenient.
Not only that, but we have huge corporations that try VERY hard to make the cheapest product they can. This requires adding all kind of preservatives and artificial flavors to make the food more enticing and palatable.0 -
i didn't say to increase your protein to throw yourself out of ketosis. i said that you don't have to worry about the breakdown of muscle in gluconeogensis as long as you are consuming enough protein, which 35% of your calories coming from protein already does.0
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"You all do understand gluconeogenesis and that your body won't get all it's energy from fat stores? There will be a break down of proteins at some point to create glucose. That's not a good outcome for muscle maintenance."
(I am a rere and forgot to quote the original)
This is a good point, but I think for most people (at least for myself) keto was used to get rid of the initial weight. I wasn't worried about maintaining muscle until I was getting close to my target weight and I started going to the gym. If you need to close more than 25 pounds keto is a great way to do it.
In my opinion, I don't see the advantages of sacrificing LBM for the sake of reaching a number on a scale faster.
it isn't really an issue as long as a person on keto is eating enough protein.
Eating to much protein throws you out of ketosis. Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose. Once again there is no additional fat loss benefit doing ketosis.
This is why I posted earlier that the proper ratio is 65% fat, 35% protein, and 5% carbs for proper ketosis.
Yes then people started to talk about... losing LBM during ketosis, someone said increase your protein, that defeats the entire point.
You are right, they should increase fat consumption instead.0 -
People are misunderstanding you.If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8697046Serotonin-releasing brain neurons are unique in that the amount of neurotransmitter they release is normally controlled by food intake: Carbohydrate consumption--acting via insulin secretion and the "plasma tryptophan ratio"--increases serotonin release
Serotonin is 5-HT. cocaine use
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12973400It has been known for a long time that the 5-HT transporter is one of the primary targets of cocaine within the brain and that cocaine causes an increase in the 5-HT activity in many brain regions
You guys should really know what you're talking about before bashing someone.
i understand what your trying to convey here, but just because they both effect serotonin, doesn't mean cocaine=carbs. Maybe you were just trying to explain what the other guy was saying in a less absurd way?
Either way, I'm with taso on the, you shouldn't do something if it makes you miserable just to lose weight. If your happy with what your doing than rock on.
Without thinking thoroughly i can see myself saying, "carbs and cocaine have a similar effect." Thinking it thoroughly, I would say, "they effect the same part of the brain, just cocaine is more intense." Anything that makes us happy/feel good will ative the same part of the brain, that's my point. Of course some things are more intense than others.
I agree, this makes more sense than the way I put it.0 -
Suggestions? Don't do it. The body needs carbs to survive and is your main source of energy. /healthcareI'm a week into the Keto Diet and have lost 4 lbs so far. Cutting Carbs Sucks but I have made it through one week so I think I can do it now. Any suggestions and experiences with Keto Diet?0 -
ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=64909600
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