Keto Diet
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I only use this type when cutting for a show, 2 weeks out prior to my comp date. Great way to really get shredded. usually go for 10% carbs and 60% fat 30% protein. Great diuretic effect as well.
^^ when this guy talks, i listen lol.
2 weeks is enough to make a big difference?
I"m just terrified of eating all that fat, seems counter productive, but i guess you need to provide the alternative energy source.
Personally i think its probably best as a short term solutuion like used here.
no reason to be afraid of fat. Fat doesn't make you fat, going over your calories makes you fat.
I am working with a girl now who is going to get a breast reduction, but she hs 5 weeks to lose 10lbs. The last week, on week 5 going to put her on very low carb, high rep routine to deplete her glycogen stores, and water... so her numbrs are best on the scale.
After she drinks some water and eats some carbs the weight will come right back.
so your saying that there really is not fat loss benefit from Keto, its just losing water weight? that actually fits with what trueblue says about it being good to get ready for a contest, and that its effective in two weeks time.
Eating to much protein throws you out of ketosis. Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose. Once again there is no additional fat loss benefit doing ketosis.
i guess it is what your saying lol.
hate to do this to you, but do you have sources for that?
I've just seen an awful lot of people (older men especially) lose a lot of fat on Atkins. tho its impossible to say that a normal calorie defecit wouldn't have produce the same resluts.0 -
actually your body doesn't need carbs to survive, it doesn't need any form of sugar. I feel ill when I eat a diet high in carbs of any kind, and i thrive feeling healthy when i eat low carb. Remember keto is low carb not no carb.. I guess i am sick of studies and conflicting info, i just know what works for me and what makes me feel better.0
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Keep up the good work! Keto is hard but rewarding. Some things you should know are making sure you get enough potassium, magnesium, and other nutrients the body needs. A multivitamin would be a good idea if you aren't already taking one. Also drink plenty of water and keep mindful of your ratios.
Here is the best forum I have found that explains the whole Ketosis process and what to expect:
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq
Read away and feel free to join. Very supportive people there and you'll get the answers you need. Good luck!
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Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapable of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.
Well said!0 -
quoted for beautifulness.Our nation is fat phobic and I think it is detrimental to our health.
The main problem is that our nation is nutritionally ignorant. Painfully ignorant.
People aren't obese because they're fat phobic. They're exercise phobic and cooking phobic. And they are incapable of believing just how simple nutrition can be, and incapable of believing in themselves.
Even here on MFP, where people are ostensibly taking steps toward better health, the misinformation and straight up nonsense overwhelms the good info in what feels like 10:1 ratio.
The problem isn't fat phobia or too many carbs. That's very far off from the problem.0 -
That is what I have been doing to two weeks and I feel great. I don't go crazy on the weekend because that was my problem before. Will hit the scale in April to see the results. Tks and wtg on your weight lost!!:flowerforyou:long term ketosis can cause physiological insulin resistance.
Meaning you're not consuming many carbs, so your receptors in te muscles start to work on less glucose. When you decide to eat carbs again, your muscle receptors won't be able to handle it well, causing a lot of glucose in the blood stream. Which is insulin resistance.
I done ketogenic based diets many times, I found no additional benefits from doing them. maybe it might help you feel fuller.
If you do decide to stick to this, i would recommend something more like CKD (Cylical Ketogenic Diet). You eat carbs on the weekend, unlimited amounts (but stay within your calorie goals)0 -
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Ok I'll admit it. I'm so addicted to food that I eat every single day. Multiple times a day. And water... I hardly go anywhere without my water bottle. I'm a complete junky. I might as well be shooting heroin.
I'm not addicted to food. I can quit whenever I want...0 -
so your saying that there really is not fat loss benefit from Keto, its just losing water weight? that actually fits with what trueblue says about it being good to get ready for a contest, and that its effective in two weeks time.
When you first go into ketosis there is a quick and rapid drop in water weight. This usually is over the first month or so. After that your body will equalize the water weight. This is usually referred to as P.I.S.S. (Post Induction Stall Syndrome, because when the water weight starts to equalize the scales appear to plateau). There is most definitely a fat loss benefit to keto.0 -
I'll give them a look, but coming from someone who used to be a junkie, even if there's a similar effect, your going to have a hard time convincing me it's the SAME.
When people compare sugar to crack or heroin, I always want to say "Do me a favor...TRY heroin. Just for a goof. Just to have a basis of comparison."0 -
Suggestions? Don't do it. The body needs carbs to survive and is your main source of energy. /healthcareI'm a week into the Keto Diet and have lost 4 lbs so far. Cutting Carbs Sucks but I have made it through one week so I think I can do it now. Any suggestions and experiences with Keto Diet?
This is completely incorrect. Yes, the body needs carbs, but not nearly as many as eat. When humans were evolving we didn't have high carb diets and relied mainly on meat and fats. The only carbs we would have had a steady source of was leafy greens (e.g. spinach) and fruits. It wasn't until the neolithic era when we started to cultivate grains that we had a steady source of high carb foods.0 -
I only use this type when cutting for a show, 2 weeks out prior to my comp date. Great way to really get shredded. usually go for 10% carbs and 60% fat 30% protein. Great diuretic effect as well.
^^ when this guy talks, i listen lol.
2 weeks is enough to make a big difference?
I"m just terrified of eating all that fat, seems counter productive, but i guess you need to provide the alternative energy source.
Personally i think its probably best as a short term solutuion like used here.
no reason to be afraid of fat. Fat doesn't make you fat, going over your calories makes you fat.
I am working with a girl now who is going to get a breast reduction, but she hs 5 weeks to lose 10lbs. The last week, on week 5 going to put her on very low carb, high rep routine to deplete her glycogen stores, and water... so her numbrs are best on the scale.
After she drinks some water and eats some carbs the weight will come right back.
so your saying that there really is not fat loss benefit from Keto, its just losing water weight? that actually fits with what trueblue says about it being good to get ready for a contest, and that its effective in two weeks time.
Eating to much protein throws you out of ketosis. Half of the protein you eat gets converted to glucose. Once again there is no additional fat loss benefit doing ketosis.
i guess it is what your saying lol.
hate to do this to you, but do you have sources for that?
I've just seen an awful lot of people (older men especially) lose a lot of fat on Atkins. tho its impossible to say that a normal calorie defecit wouldn't have produce the same resluts.
Email Acg67, i know he has many of them.
I lost a lot of fat too, and most of the time i didn't do ketosis that much either. I would do it rom time to time because i thought I would lost fat faster. I didn't i stopped, then i thought "maybe i did it wrong" and try again, and nope, same result.
Think of it like this, you lose weight at 1,500 calories(1lbs loss a week). One guy is doing a ketogenic diet, another guy is doing a high carb diet, and another guy is doing pure protein.
Lets take out protein for fun.
pretend these diets are 100% carbs, protein or fat.
They will all be in a 500 calorie deficit. which is one lbs loss. I know you might think, "the guy on the high fat diet(ketosis) will lose more fat because he's burning more fat for fuel he's making ketones." yes that's true, BUT HES ALSO CONSUMING MORE FAT IN HIS DIET.
So in the end, it makes no difference. It always boils down to calories, it always will. Energy(calories can't be created or destroyed, only transformed). There is no magic way to destroy more calories than you eat, you have to use them one way or another, and the limit this is based on is your TDEE.
ETA: Didn't mention TEF(Thermogenic Effects Of Food), each macro nutrient requires a certain amount of calories to digest. It takes energy to digest food. It really doesn't have much of an impact, but in the example above, the guy eating more protein would lose more fat because protein requires the most amount of energy to digest.
I disagree, I have posted this before, but this says otherwise.
[the researchers in a 1956 study] put obese subjects on one of four different diets. The diets all had the same calorie count—1,000 calories per day—but the composition of those calories varied: 1,000 calories of a mixed or balanced diet, 1,000 calories with 90% from carbohydrate, 1,000 calories with 90% from protein, or 1,000 calories with 90% from fat. If it were true that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, then patients should have lost roughly the same amount of weight on all four diets. Did they? No. Indeed, on the high-carbohydrate diet the patients actually gained a little weight, overall—on just 1,000 calories per day. They lost some weight on 1,000 calories per day of a balanced diet, and even more on 1,000 calories per day with 90% from protein. But overwhelmingly, patients lost the most weight on 1,000 calories per day when 90% of those calories came from fat.0 -
A friend of mine lost almost 200 pounds eating pretty much only protein for about eighteen months. Now he has gained most of it back and he has allergies that he didn't have before, one being an allergy to oranges. I wonder if other people have experienced this?0
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link me the full study.
There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.
Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.
Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf0 -
A friend of mine lost almost 200 pounds eating pretty much only protein for about eighteen months. Now he has gained most of it back and he has allergies that he didn't have before, one being an allergy to oranges. I wonder if other people have experienced this?
This is the problem with most diets. You lose a bunch of weight but don't change your lifestyle and it all comes right back.
I personally haven't noticed any side effects from keto except for hair loss and lost 60-70 pounds on it. Turns out the hair loss was mainly due to a lack of iron in my diet. I added iron supplements and the hair loss stopped.0 -
link me the full study.
There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.
Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.
Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf
Wait, they gave them 10,000mg of salt a day, and then found what you think is statistical weight loss after 7-9 days?!0 -
link me the full study.
There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.
Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.
Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf
Wait, they gave them 10,000mg of salt a day, and then found what you think is statistical weight loss after 7-9 days?!
That was done as a control to make sure varying ammounts of salt was not the reason...
This was just the first set of tests... you should read the whole thing.0 -
i don't have an research to back me up really, but it seems to me that protein is the least efficiently absorbed macro, provides the least amount of energy, and probably takes the most energy to turn into fat.
based on that I would have assumed the high protein diet group would have lost the most.0 -
i don't have an research to back me up really, but it seems to me that protein is the least efficiently absorbed macro, provides the least amount of energy, and probably takes the most energy to turn into fat.
based on that I would have assumed the high protein diet group would have lost the most.
That does make alot of sense in theory, but glucogenisis turns protein to glucose when not enough fuel is around. this spikes insulin, blocks leptin, and stimulates lipoprotein lipase
This is why the study shows that the most ammount of fat loss, and the least ammount of lean mass lost, was on the high fat diet.0 -
link me the full study.
There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.
Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.
Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf
Wait, they gave them 10,000mg of salt a day, and then found what you think is statistical weight loss after 7-9 days?!
That was done as a control to make sure varying ammounts of salt was not the reason...
This was just the first set of tests... you should read the whole thing.
Actually it was for both diet series 1 and 2, and they said that diet series 3 was an extension of diet series 2 to show that the same results could be obtained using "normal portions". They do not specifically mention how many mg of salt were given, so it's difficult to say.0 -
link me the full study.
There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.
Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.
Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf
Wait, they gave them 10,000mg of salt a day, and then found what you think is statistical weight loss after 7-9 days?!
That was done as a control to make sure varying ammounts of salt was not the reason...
This was just the first set of tests... you should read the whole thing.
Actually it was for both diet series 1 and 2, and they said that diet series 3 was an extension of diet series 2 to show that the same results could be obtained using "normal portions". They do not specifically mention how many mg of salt were given, so it's difficult to say.
That is a good point, but I would still think because of how they tested for body fat % that it should be irelivant. Even though it is not explisitly tested for in this study, I dont think it would impact the results. I have never been too concerned with sodium intake, but let me read a few other things over with that in mind to see how it might cause an error in calculation.0 -
Strung out on pixie sticks man! *twitch* *twitch*0
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So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:
ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=64909600 -
So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:
ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
Check the references here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction
And before you scoff at wikipedia before even looking, dont. Read it, follow the references, then discuss.0 -
lol In that case isn't anything anyone is addicted to like cocaine? I'm addicted to exercise. I should probably stop. Should people addicted to food completely stop eating? Should people addicted to vitamin pills stop eating things with vitamins? Some people are addicted to fat. Gluck limiting that and trying to absorb nutrients...
So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:
ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.
Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.
Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
Check the references here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction
And before you scoff at wikipedia before even looking, dont. Read it, follow the references, then discuss.0 -
Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.0
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Most people use it as a SHORT TERM diet to help jump start their weight loss. But the fact remains, for *most* people (me included) such a low carb diet is not sustainable for very long. One of my friends has been doing keto since November. Problem is, she eats well for a few days, then binges and has to re-set all over again. Kind of defeats the purpose. And as many have said, the minute you reintroduce carbs back into your diet, you will regain most (all) of the weight.
So, sure, it'll work if you want to eat that way for the rest of your life. Personally, I enjoy my carbs and there are much more balanced ways of losing weight that acheive the same end result. I think it's better to find a "diet" that isn't really a diet, and represents a more realistic way of how you're going to eat for the rest of your life (for the most part) not just until you hit goal weight. It may take longer to lose the weight, but it's more likely that you'll keep the weight off long term if you choose to "diet" this way.
Everything in moderation, and exercise. It's really not that hard, and doesn't have to be so strictly restrictive.0 -
Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.
There is a very big difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. Ketoacidosis is not the goal of a ketogenic diet. Keto diets were used for many years to treat diabetes and epilepsy. If done properly there is little to no ill effects of keto diets and some studies have shown that, at least short term bouts of, ketosis is not only normal but may have some benefit. The fact that you are confusing ketoacidosis with Atkins tells me you might work in healthcare, but aren't a doctor or have any medical training.0 -
Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.
There is a very big difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. Ketoacidosis is not the goal of a ketogenic diet. Keto diets were used for many years to treat diabetes and epilepsy. If done properly there is little to no ill effects of keto diets and some studies have shown that, at least short term bouts of, ketosis is not only normal but may have some benefit. The fact that you are confusing ketoacidosis with Atkins tells me you might work in healthcare, but aren't a doctor or have any medical training.
I agree. Ketones are regulated with in a specific range in healthy people.
This is a problem for people. Ketosis is one thing but the reason for ketoacidosis is cause by a lack of proper fat in the diet, not by a lack of carbs. It is 100% sustainable if done correctly, and 100% unsustanable if not.0 -
Most people use it as a SHORT TERM diet to help jump start their weight loss. But the fact remains, for *most* people (me included) such a low carb diet is not sustainable for very long. One of my friends has been doing keto since November. Problem is, she eats well for a few days, then binges and has to re-set all over again. Kind of defeats the purpose. And as many have said, the minute you reintroduce carbs back into your diet, you will regain most (all) of the weight.
Very true, but the same argument could be made about any diet plan out there. I have been out of ketosis for about a month now and have not gained any weight back. In fact I have lost a little bit more. Why? Because I got up off my butt and started exercising. Yes, that is why I got fat in the first place, but its near impossible to lose weight on a plan that would have taken me a year to get to the target weight.
Keto (and any other diet plan out there) is only as good as the person using it. I feel bad for your friend, and I mean no offense when I say this, but if she binges on a diet that allows you to eat all the bacon, steak, and cheese you could want then she has self control issues and is likely to have the same problem with any kind of diet structure.So, sure, it'll work if you want to eat that way for the rest of your life. Personally, I enjoy my carbs and there are much more balanced ways of losing weight that acheive the same end result. I think it's better to find a "diet" that isn't really a diet, and represents a more realistic way of how you're going to eat for the rest of your life (for the most part) not just until you hit goal weight. It may take longer to lose the weight, but it's more likely that you'll keep the weight off long term if you choose to "diet" this way.
Everything in moderation, and exercise. It's really not that hard, and doesn't have to be so strictly restrictive.
Ok, hypothetical question. You need to lose 50-100 pounds. Would you be willing to give up carbs for six to eight months to lose the weight? While some people have done keto diets for life (there was a thread on the keto subreddit the other day and someone said they had been doing it for 12 years), the majority of people who are successful with keto use it for the bulk of the weight loss, and then switch to either a paleo diet or a more traditional FDA-food-pyramid-style diet and either incorporate exercise or count calories.0
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