The Smarter Science of Slim
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Ok, so here are some urls to follow and I'm sorry - I'm not sure how to actually create the "link" but just cut and paste into url bar:
http://slimissimple.org/ - 12 minute video giving a snapshot of Jonathan Bailor presenting basic philosophy
http://thesmarterscienceofslim.com/ - website with links to podcasts and support forums
http://www.marmaladeandmileposts.com/archives/category/food/sane - Carrie Brown's recipes, some of them are pretty good.
I know this is not for everyone, but it's really helped me (and I have always eaten lots of vegetables) to reduce the sugar and processed stuff in my diet. Especially snacks, this is where I used to snack on crackers and easy packaged things. Now I throw a couple of baby cucumbers in my handbag with my home made protein pancake bites and I'm good to go!0 -
Love the podcasts. Haven't read the book, but looking forward to the new book. He has taken a TON of research and made it easy to understand and use. Not for everyone, but as someone who has always gained the weight back when I ate like other people, it makes sense for me.
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bump!0
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I've been making SANE changes over the last couple of weeks and so far I'm in love with it! Over the last 5-10 years I have destroyed my metabolism through bulimia, binging, yo-yo dieting restricting calories you name it. I do enjoy exercise and participate in 3-4 workouts a week comprised of jogging and resistance so that I wont be changing.
Back to food. Firstly i should say I haven't stuck to the program 100% because I'm sick of telling myself what I should eat based on a formula rather than what I feel like. So admittedly I don't know if I'm eating 10 servings of this or 4 servings of that. What I do is what JB suggests which is eat veggies first, protein second and fat last each time I eat or just try to average it out over the day. There was a bag of red rock deli chips and a couple of tim tams the other night from a hotel mini bar. Also I enjoy the vodka so I've still had a couple on the weekends. However, for the first time in a very long time I'm not hungry and I'm not guilty which is huge for me. I also didn't gain weight overnight from the minibar binge which normally I would. I don't miss bread or pasta at all, although if I start to I will probably just eat some and move on. I'm eating more than I have in a while in terms of volume and calories (up to about 1400 on average) and I've lost 2 kilos (I still eat salt so cynics don't bother with the water weight argument).
So overall, regardless of the initial signs of weight loss I'm loving The Smarter Science of Slim because I'm actually full and happy and not gaining weight!
*Also with some of the claims JB makes in the book that seem a bit daft are explained on the podcast and he's not as extremist as hey may appear in the book.0 -
Thanks emck3 good point about the book vs podcasts. I really like the podcasts because JB does talk about things a lot more casually and explains a lot. It's never about 100% and JB says that as well. But if you can eat well MOST of the time, the rest of it works itself out.
I also agree with finding what is right for you. Personally, I need some carbs with my breakfast and 5/7 days have 30g quinoa or oats in the morning. Works for me. But the basics of SSoS are fantastic, and eating veggies, protein and fat is working really well and I feel great.0 -
But the basics of SSoS are fantastic, and eating veggies, protein and fat is working really well and I feel great.
I have read the book now and I think it's a great plan which could help a lot of people (especially if they hate calorie counting - which is probably a lot of people in reality!)
I have been doing something quite similar to what he suggests it appears (although I came to it from a different route and I have starchy carbs after a strenuous workout) and it is working really well. The main thing is my cravings have almost disappeared which is simply amazing to me as I've always had a "sweet tooth". Weirdly I am also satisfied with a much smaller amount of sweet things if I do have them.
Restriction has taught me the art of moderation
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Am I the only one reading this post purely as an advertisement pushing product?0
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Am I the only one reading this post purely as an advertisement pushing product?
Yep.
A truthful post would read:
'Hi, I was happy just counting calories and exercising more. But I have read a book and I get to restrict all kinds of food for no good scientific reason. Now, instead of being happy and losing weight at a moderate rate, I get to be miserable. Who else wants to come be miserable with me?'0 -
<snip>
Nobody believes such sorcery!
Indeed so, I'm sorry I mentioned it, I expect to be dunked in a river in a chair within the week.
Without wishing to add to the perceived 'advertorial' I will say the podcast is worth a listen as it is entertaining and contains solid advice.
Yes, some of the seasoned fitness nuts may 'know it all' but for your average Joe/June it's worth a listen.0 -
<snip>
Nobody believes such sorcery!
Indeed so, I'm sorry I mentioned it, I expect to be dunked in a river in a chair within the week.
Without wishing to add to the perceived 'advertorial' I will say the podcast is worth a listen as it is entertaining and contains solid advice.
Yes, some of the seasoned fitness nuts may 'know it all' but for your average Joe/June it's worth a listen.
Seasoned fitness nuts generally know not to cut out an entire food group for no real reason. There is no need to cut out wheat, rice etc. This is just another fad diet using the word science to try to make it seem legit. :noway:0 -
to read later0
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Am I the only one reading this post purely as an advertisement pushing product?
Yep.
A truthful post would read:
'Hi, I was happy just counting calories and exercising more. But I have read a book and I get to restrict all kinds of food for no good scientific reason. Now, instead of being happy and losing weight at a moderate rate, I get to be miserable. Who else wants to come be miserable with me?'
Yeah, no.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21926468
Some people, even without medical conditions, do benefit from temporary restriction to re regulate normal food and hunger cues before slowly re introducing certain foods to see how they feel or react to them.
No one is saying eliminate these things permanently.
Good lord.0 -
This is terrible. It amounts to "eat fewer calories and exercise more" but does so by demonizing certain types of foods and flatly denying actual known science.0
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This is terrible. It amounts to "eat fewer calories and exercise more" but does so by demonizing certain types of foods and flatly denying actual known science.
Nah. I've read the book and the essential points seem to be if you focus on nutrient dense, whole foods with high levels of satiety you are less likely to over eat (and therefore retain a calorie deficit although that is not explicitly stated.) He doesn't demonise foods so much as saying certain foods make it easier for some people to remain full and satisfied and to put them first.
He also recommends much less volume of exercise but at a greater intensity.
I don't think there is any "magic" to it but I have no doubt that as an approach it will help people by having a readily accessible template to make conscious choices from.0 -
This is terrible. It amounts to "eat fewer calories and exercise more" but does so by demonizing certain types of foods and flatly denying actual known science.
Nah. I've read the book and the essential points seem to be if you focus on nutrient dense, whole foods with high levels of satiety you are less likely to over eat (and therefore retain a calorie deficit although that is not explicitly stated.) He doesn't demonise foods so much as saying certain foods make it easier for some people to remain full and satisfied and to put them first.
He also recommends much less volume of exercise but at a greater intensity.
I don't think there is any "magic" to it but I have no doubt that as an approach it will help people by having a readily accessible template to make conscious choices from.
"Nutrient dense" food would be food that has many calories per gram, such as cheese or cookies. Perhaps you meant micronutrient dense?
Look at all the "I can't eat 1200 calories a day, it's too much food!" threads. What do they all have in common? These people have abandoned everything besides "healthy" food like veggies and lean meats.
The natural effect of limiting yourself to "whole" foods is generally that you eat fewer calories. That's why you lose weight doing this. Same thing with Atkins: it's hard to eat too many calories while eating no carbs, and that's why it works for most people.
However, you get the exact same effect eating the same number of calories of other food.
You even point this out yourself: it's not that the foods are healthier and make you lose weight, it's that they fill you up more so you just naturally eat fewer calories.
It all comes back to calories. It always does. If you're losing weight, you're eating a calorie deficit. There's no magic to getting there: if you want to eat some Pop-Tarts, go ahead as long as it fits in your calories. There's no magic substance in Pop-Tarts that makes you get fat any more than there's a magic substance in broccoli that makes you thin.
The real tragedy is when people keep themselves from eating foods they genuinely enjoy for as long as they can because someone convinced them they need to, until they can't hold out anymore and then binge on it. Then everything falls apart.0 -
bump for later reading0
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"Nutrient dense" food would be food that has many calories per gram, such as cheese or cookies. Perhaps you meant micronutrient dense?
Look at all the "I can't eat 1200 calories a day, it's too much food!" threads. What do they all have in common? These people have abandoned everything besides "healthy" food like veggies and lean meats.
The natural effect of limiting yourself to "whole" foods is generally that you eat fewer calories. That's why you lose weight doing this. Same thing with Atkins: it's hard to eat too many calories while eating no carbs, and that's why it works for most people.
However, you get the exact same effect eating the same number of calories of other food.
You even point this out yourself: it's not that the foods are healthier and make you lose weight, it's that they fill you up more so you just naturally eat fewer calories.
It all comes back to calories. It always does. If you're losing weight, you're eating a calorie deficit. There's no magic to getting there: if you want to eat some Pop-Tarts, go ahead as long as it fits in your calories. There's no magic substance in Pop-Tarts that makes you get fat any more than there's a magic substance in broccoli that makes you thin.
The real tragedy is when people keep themselves from eating foods they genuinely enjoy for as long as they can because someone convinced them they need to, until they can't hold out anymore and then binge on it. Then everything falls apart.
Yes, in the final analysis it does come down to calories and being in a negative calorie balance if you want to lose fat. I don't think anyone actually disagrees with that (well, I certainly don't.)
However, how easy it is for people to consistently remain in that negative calorie balance does vary due a number of reasons from person to person due to lots of different factors, sometime physiological, sometimes psychological, sometimes both. As alluded to in one of my previous posts for example sometimes high circulating glucose levels makes it harder for certain people to resist the temptation of high calorie density foods. I therefore don't think it's a coincidence that many "diets" have an induction phase which focuses on refined carbs before they are reintroduced back to get over problems such as that or other such difficulties.
Not everyone finds tracking calories easy or handle sugary foods as well as others. Some people prefer the simplicity of having a set of concrete guidelines they can work from. Any plan that makes it easier for an individual to achieve their goals without obsessing and is relatively safe is a valuable one in my opinion.0 -
Yes, in the final analysis it does come down to calories and being in a negative calorie balance if you want to lose fat. I don't think anyone actually disagrees with that (well, I certainly don't.)
"I was floundering around with counting calories"
"the concept of calories in vs calories out ... is NOT working."
"Bailor says that calories matter, but not in the mainstream (number of calories) way that we have been told."Not everyone finds tracking calories easy or handle sugary foods as well as others. Some people prefer the simplicity of having a set of concrete guidelines they can work from. Any plan that makes it easier for an individual to achieve their goals without obsessing and is relatively safe is a valuable one in my opinion.
That's fine if people need this sort of rigid structure. Most don't, because they can't handle excluding their favorite foods for the rest of their lives.. and most importantly, this sort of diet gives people zero help in understanding how to actually fit those favorite foods into the rest of their lives. "Eat veggies, not pizza!" is great for a little while, but it does not teach people how to actually eat the pizza in a healthy way when they finally do give in.
Anyway, the OP is all about "calories really don't matter; eat nothing but good whole healthy foods and you'll lose weight." This amounts to "eat fewer calories" but then specifically rejects eating fewer calories as the causitive mechanism. It offers no insight on how to enjoy "unhealthy" foods in a healthy way. It offers no insight on body composition, how to stop losing weight and instead maintain or gain weight, etc.
The problem with the OP is that it specifically rejects what's actually going on, instead substituting a "diet plan" that makes use of but obscures what's actually going on. In doing so, it eliminates or obfuscates many insights and modifications that are plainly obvious when you know what's really happening in terms of calories, body fat, and lean mass.0 -
Anyway, the OP is all about "calories really don't matter; eat nothing but good whole healthy foods and you'll lose weight." This amounts to "eat fewer calories" but then specifically rejects eating fewer calories as the causitive mechanism. It offers no insight on how to enjoy "unhealthy" foods in a healthy way. It offers no insight on body composition, how to stop losing weight and instead maintain or gain weight, etc.
I don't think it really matters that she did not.
She shared what worked for her and invited other people to look into it further for themselves and then decide ie listen to the podcasts or read the book. I haven't listened to the podcasts at all but I have read the book and it does talk about including other food items once you get comfortable with the overall structure of eating as set out.
Personally, I think she did enough.
I would much rather people be successful than "right".0 -
Thanks for sharing!0
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bump0
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Anyway, the OP is all about "calories really don't matter; eat nothing but good whole healthy foods and you'll lose weight." This amounts to "eat fewer calories" but then specifically rejects eating fewer calories as the causitive mechanism. It offers no insight on how to enjoy "unhealthy" foods in a healthy way. It offers no insight on body composition, how to stop losing weight and instead maintain or gain weight, etc.
I don't think it really matters that she did not.
She shared what worked for her and invited other people to look into it further for themselves and then decide ie listen to the podcasts or read the book. I haven't listened to the podcasts at all but I have read the book and it does talk about including other food items once you get comfortable with the overall structure of eating as set out.
Personally, I think she did enough.
I would much rather people be successful than "right".
I believe that understanding why something works is the key to flexibility, and flexibility is the key to long term success. The vast majority of people who set out to lose weight and get in shape will not benefit from a diet that specifically excludes extremely common and enjoyable foods. These people are much better served by being taught how to enjoy those foods in the context of a health diet, rather than simply being told not to eat them.0 -
I believe that understanding why something works is the key to flexibility, and flexibility is the key to long term success. The vast majority of people who set out to lose weight and get in shape will not benefit from a diet that specifically excludes extremely common and enjoyable foods. These people are much better served by being taught how to enjoy those foods in the context of a health diet, rather than simply being told not to eat them.
On an intellectual level, I agree with you.
On a practical level I don't think it matters at all. If it works for someone over the long term it works. End of debate. If it doesn't then they should try something else.
Knowing does not necessarily mean applying. Calorie counting and yes, even flexible dieting routinely fails to deliver long term success for some people. Dieting, even so called "lifestyle change" dieting has horrific failure rates. As many success stories as there are on this forum there are people saying they have regained or "it's just not working".
We need more elegant solutions, not less, more viewpoints and discourse not just "eat less move more" as a public policy statement.0 -
Just eat food. Food that you can find in nature. Eat plenty of non-starchy vegetables, seafood, lean meat, low fat cottage cheese and low fat greek yoghurt, eggs, berries and citrus fruits natural fats, nuts, drink plenty of water. Fill your body with good QUALITY food and it will have no room for anything else
idk where you find low fat cottage cheese and greek yoghurt in nature o.0
We don't find milk-bearing animals in nature?? Then where did they come from--are they sophisticated robots do you think?0 -
Just eat food. Food that you can find in nature. Eat plenty of non-starchy vegetables, seafood, lean meat, low fat cottage cheese and low fat greek yoghurt, eggs, berries and citrus fruits natural fats, nuts, drink plenty of water. Fill your body with good QUALITY food and it will have no room for anything else
idk where you find low fat cottage cheese and greek yoghurt in nature o.0
We don't find milk-bearing animals in nature?? Then where did they come from--are they sophisticated robots do you think?
Cows don't produce fat-free greek yogurt any more than wheat stalks produce Wonder bread.0 -
It's nice that you've found something that works for you, but this is far too restrictive for most people. Are you really never going to eat bread, pasta, cake, ice cream, cheese, rice, pizza, alcohol etc (the list is massive) ever again?
I really don't understand what is so hard about eating in moderation, having treats now and again. This would make is so hard to ever go to a friends house for dinner without dictating to them what you can and can't eat.
Also while there may not be a bread tree, wheat is found in nature as is rice. This is just another spin on palo. I glad it's working for you but I'd rather eat all foods I enjoy in moderation and not have to worry about socialising with friends.
You probably have never experienced sugar/grain addiction and the metabolic aberrations it causes. I, and others here, have. Just as alcoholics know that the way to continued sobriety is through abstinence, so the formerly morbidly obese (who wear their addiction for everyone to see) understand that they must abstain from the substances to which they were addicted. It is the rare recovering alcoholic who can return to "moderate" drinking. It is the rare "carb-o-holic" who can return to eating grain and sugar in "moderation" either. Our bodies just don't work that way. Our "sink drains" are apparently much easier to clog (perhaps a bend in the drain pipe??). 0 -
When cornered he admits that calories ultimately rule but eating the right foods can help the process and address metabolic issues.
I think this is spot on.
Obviously calories do matter but in a real world scenario certain foods or dieting structures make it easier for people to stay consistently in deficit, others make it harder. Unless you're a masochist then choosing the way that makes adherence easier is your best bet.
The "right" combination is due to a myriad of factors both physiological and psychological in my view but what seems clear to me is that it is quite a personal thing.
While this type of dieting may sound "restrictive" to one person it may not seem restrictive at all to another - how can you feel restricted if you are not craving something and have little desire to eat it?
It may seem astonishing but some people end up in a situation where they can take or leave pasta, bread, booze etc. They hold little sway. It is not a case of "never eating something again" - but rather having the flexibility to not be overly bothered in having it (or not as he case may be.)
^^^^THIS TOTALLY^^^^^ I am never bothered by not eating the foods that formerly made me fat and sick. I rarely, if ever, miss them now.0 -
Just eat food. Food that you can find in nature. Eat plenty of non-starchy vegetables, seafood, lean meat, low fat cottage cheese and low fat greek yoghurt, eggs, berries and citrus fruits natural fats, nuts, drink plenty of water. Fill your body with good QUALITY food and it will have no room for anything else
idk where you find low fat cottage cheese and greek yoghurt in nature o.0
We don't find milk-bearing animals in nature?? Then where did they come from--are they sophisticated robots do you think?
Cows don't produce fat-free greek yogurt any more than wheat stalks produce Wonder bread.
True, but humans have been making dairy products for a VERY long time. I personally eat only raw milk full-fat cheese and a tiny bit of organic yogurt when I eat dairy. I prefer it to be closer to its natural state.
Modern wheats bear little resemblance to the wheat our ancestors ate. It has been genetically manipulated to be very high in gluten. The human gut doesn't deal well with large amounts of gluten---to say nothing of the addictive quality of the gliadin component of it. The phytic acid in grain is also a major problem. Primitive societies have been better at dealing with that through sprouting, etc.0 -
I believe that understanding why something works is the key to flexibility, and flexibility is the key to long term success. The vast majority of people who set out to lose weight and get in shape will not benefit from a diet that specifically excludes extremely common and enjoyable foods. These people are much better served by being taught how to enjoy those foods in the context of a health diet, rather than simply being told not to eat them.
On an intellectual level, I agree with you.
On a practical level I don't think it matters at all. If it works for someone over the long term it works. End of debate. If it doesn't then they should try something else.
Knowing does not necessarily mean applying. Calorie counting and yes, even flexible dieting routinely fails to deliver long term success for some people. Dieting, even so called "lifestyle change" dieting has horrific failure rates. As many success stories as there are on this forum there are people saying they have regained or "it's just not working".
We need more elegant solutions, not less, more viewpoints and discourse not just "eat less move more" as a public policy statement.
Agree. The "eat less, move more philosophy" is a bit reductionist. The "how" is just as important as the "what".0 -
I don't know about the idea that grains have nothing essential to your health. Whole wheat, for example, certainly isn't void of nutrition. We benefit from the fiber, vitamins, and minerals. If one doesn't have a food sensitivity that negates the benefit, I don't understand why it shouldn't be part of a healthy diet.0
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