The Smarter Science of Slim

ndj1979

Jonnythan: "...Women are still human, despite your attempts to say they are not..."




When did I ever say that women are not human? In my estimation, they are the much "better half" of the human race (based on what we see daily in the news--and elsewhere).

well apparently they defy the law of physics and mathematics...so they must be something other worldly

CoachReddy

how did this thread, which was posted by a reasonable person, and contained a lot of reasonable information, turn into (i presume) another **** show? can someone catch me up? lol it's a shame...

OP great info, really cool stuff, and thanks for sharing. but as you can see, when you talk to people on these boards about taking better care of themselves, well... 200+ posts happen pretty quick. :P

funny that so many people want to do the bare minimum and anything beyond that gets them all up in arms. how dare people want to give themselves optimal health instead of just... adequate.

geebusuk

The initial post also, to my mind, contained a lot of information that was NOT reasonable.
Ignoring my first questions, the 'sink theory' too is complete woo as far as I know - with no Scientific backing. I often wonder how much these are really 'eat good' rather than 'eat less calories' - which does also tend to happen if people are eating more food which is less energy dense, as they tend to feel more sated so may not have those 'snacks' they tell themselves don't matter.

It's not about "wanting to do the bare minimum" - it's about wanting to do the right things for right reasons; to really understand the best we reasonably can how our bodies are working.

Me, I don't think it's working like a Kitchen Sink, personally .

SanteMulberry

how did this thread, which was posted by a reasonable person, and contained a lot of reasonable information, turn into (i presume) another **** show? can someone catch me up? lol it's a shame...

OP great info, really cool stuff, and thanks for sharing. but as you can see, when you talk to people on these boards about taking better care of themselves, well... 200+ posts happen pretty quick. :P

funny that so many people want to do the bare minimum and anything beyond that gets them all up in arms. how dare people want to give themselves optimal health instead of just... adequate.

I agree, Coach. A number of bullies here seem to think that they have the right to go around insulting and baiting people for what they consider "unscientific" points of view. Apparently, they think they have a lockup on all the information there is to have in the field of obesity research. I personally welcome new and better information. While I do accept that calories are important, there are other factors that have an influence, and to ignore them is, in my opinion, folly.

geebusuk

I agree, Coach. A number of bullies here seem to think that they have the right to go around insulting and baiting people for what they consider "unscientific" points of view. Apparently, they think they have a lockup on all the information there is to have in the field of obesity research. I personally welcome new and better information. While I do accept that calories are important, there are other factors that have an influence, and to ignore them is, in my opinion, folly.

And that is precisely why I ask for such information.
(I'd love to see some back up for the sink theory!)

Sadly in this day and age, many do see that as 'bullying' by not 'supporting' something you expect is wrong and asking for decent evidence.

SanteMulberry

I agree, Coach. A number of bullies here seem to think that they have the right to go around insulting and baiting people for what they consider "unscientific" points of view. Apparently, they think they have a lockup on all the information there is to have in the field of obesity research. I personally welcome new and better information. While I do accept that calories are important, there are other factors that have an influence, and to ignore them is, in my opinion, folly.

And that is precisely why I ask for such information.
(I'd love to see some back up for the sink theory!)

Sadly in this day and age, many do see that as 'bullying' by not 'supporting' something you expect is wrong and asking for decent evidence.

I certainly think it is legitimate to ask for supporting information--journal articles, etc. But I don't think any and all things said in the forums(inflammatory remarks, deliberately antagonistic posts with mocking pictures, personal insults, rudeness, etc.) are appropriate--and, in fact, are against the rules of the forum. It reduces the level of discourse on serious threads. If they want to horse around and insult each other, they should start their own humor threads and leave the rest of us alone. I received a message just this morning from one of my friends (she is a regular poster here) who says she is disgusted with that kind of behavior and will not be participating any further. I'm tempted to do the same but that is what the bullies apparently want.

IrisAT

Well said!

healthymom76

bump for later

Jude_V

bump for later

dlneitzel

Interesting post..........
Additional interesting reading - "Protein Power".
Authors - Michael R. Eades, MD and Mary Dan Eades, MD

Tilran

"Eat less, exercise more and you will lose weight. Hmm.. How's that working for us? Record levels of obesity around the globe, surely this is NOT working"

I gave up after reading the logical fallacy of this premise which sets up the argument. Those who are obese are simply not eating less and exercising more, and they are not, as the statement implies, a result of people failing in an endeavour to exercise more and eat less. This statement is trying to portray diet and exercise as pointless exercises by means of a totally absurd argument. How can you take the intelligence of such an article seriously?

THIS!

/thread

geebusuk

I'd suggest that calling people 'bullies' also reduces the level of discourse and (yes I appreciate the irony) is a form of 'bullying' - as perceived by those that use the word - in it's self.

I've seen people suggest they're going to stop offering useful advice because the 'B Word' gets thrown around if they provide advice based on established fact rather than guesswork and conjecture.
"Bullies" because they're not just telling the person offering incorrect advice that they're amazing.

CoachReddy

I'd suggest that calling people 'bullies' also reduces the level of discourse and (yes I appreciate the irony) is a form of 'bullying' - as perceived by those that use the word - in it's self.

I've seen people suggest they're going to stop offering useful advice because the 'B Word' gets thrown around if they provide advice based on established fact rather than guesswork and conjecture.
"Bullies" because they're not just telling the person offering incorrect advice that they're amazing.

stop being obtuse. she's clearly referring to the offensive memes and the name calling that happen in just about every "controversial" thread on MFP, she's not talking about disagreements and posting articles to support your position.

geebusuk

I used two different paragraphs to separate the two concepts.

Too clear it up:

The first was questioning "Is it ok to be a bully if you're bullying a bully".

The second was that people often do get called bullies for such, even if she was not in this case.
Though she does include 'inflammatory remarks', which would probably include anything I'd expect someone I consider 'sane' to reply to in regards to some of the very questionable concepts in the original post!

bcattoes

Just eat food. Food that you can find in nature. Eat plenty of non-starchy vegetables, seafood, lean meat, low fat cottage cheese and low fat greek yoghurt, eggs, berries and citrus fruits natural fats, nuts, drink plenty of water. Fill your body with good QUALITY food and it will have no room for anything else.

Carbohydrates are a great source of calories, but not a great source of nutrition. Grains are not essential. There is no such thing as a bread tree.

I was thinking that to have not heard everything up to the first paragraph above you must have been getting all your nutrition information from mainstream media, as too many do. It shocks me how many people think that eating whole natural foods is new advice. I really would never have believed it before coming to the MFP forums.

Then I read the second paragraph above and stopped. It's the most utterly stupid paragraph I've read in a very long time. There is no such thing as a fish tree. There is no such thing as a brocolli tree. There is no such thing as a strawberry tree. There is no such thing as a meat tree.

SanteMulberry

I'd suggest that calling people 'bullies' also reduces the level of discourse and (yes I appreciate the irony) is a form of 'bullying' - as perceived by those that use the word - in it's self.

I've seen people suggest they're going to stop offering useful advice because the 'B Word' gets thrown around if they provide advice based on established fact rather than guesswork and conjecture.
"Bullies" because they're not just telling the person offering incorrect advice that they're amazing.

I called no one a "bully" by user name or any other form of address. If no one here fits the bill then, I guess it is not a problem, is it?

As to your second point, there would have been NO progress in the medical field at all if no one had dared to defy what "everyone knows is established fact". The information deserves to be heard, whether it agrees with certain people's opinion or not. Let's have a free and open exchange of ideas. If an idea is incorrect, it will be sifted out over time by further research. We really don't need sophomoric "hall monitors," using rude and insulting tactics, taking it upon themselves to police opinions that may conflict with their own. NO ONE, including them, knows everything there is to know about weight loss and how age, gender, metabolic issues, etc. impact it.

SanteMulberry

I used two different paragraphs to separate the two concepts.

Too clear it up:

The first was questioning "Is it ok to be a bully if you're bullying a bully".

The second was that people often do get called bullies for such, even if she was not in this case.
Though she does include 'inflammatory remarks', which would probably include anything I'd expect someone I consider 'sane' to reply to in regards to some of the very questionable concepts in the original post!

I think everyone on the forums knows what is meant by "inflammatory remarks" and it is not simple disagreement. If I post something that someone thinks is incorrect, it behooves that person to RESPECTFULLY disagree (that is, after all a forum rule). It is clearly inflammatory, BY DESIGN it seems, to imply that someone is delusional for holding that opinion.

GitaMe

I think you might also be interested in reading a website called Mark's Daily Apple and a book called the Primal Blueprint and a topic called Paleo Diet.

It is all based around the fact that processed foods are a relatively new concept to the human diet. Our earliest ancestors were not eating processed grains, bread, and items such as cereal and other high sugar high carb items are even newer (last couple hundred years).

I do eat this way most of the time (I am not perfect after all). But it turns the sink into a high rev garbage disposal to eat those things that the human body is trained and even built to eat :-)

SkimFlatWhite68

Thanks everyone for your contributions to my original post.

I am not affiliated in any way with SSoS and this was not an advertisement in any way, shape or form. I was simply sharing something I found and which has been working for me. I don't agree 100% with JB, but I quoted him because for the most part, he's got a good plan to live by.

I started at MFP in November, I've read IPOARM, Eat More to Weigh Less and other methods that are promoted on MFP. I ended up using the Spreadsheet with HeyBales help to work out my calories. I've joined groups, left groups, trying to find something that resonates with me. If anyone wishes, you can read my entire journey in my blog, I am a real person, just trying to work it all out and get to my goal. I found SSoS and it "clicked". From there, I started to read up on Primal and Paleo and in general, I like this way of eating. I do believe that 1500 calories of more natural foods are going to be better for me that 1500 calories of processed foods, so that's how I try to eat.

I think It's about growth: of understanding, acceptance, knowledge and listening to others viewpoints. I know I change my opinions and methods as I read more and find out about views on general health. Change is constant. That's a good thing.

As I said in a previous post, yes, I do eat some starchy carbs, this is an 80/20 thing for me, as most "dieters" are with their food plans. I don't feel like I am restricting myself, if I really want bread, I'll have it (as I did last weekend). I find that I can have a bigger meal with bolognese sauce served on veggies, so that is what I eat and I love it. I don't miss pasta. I still eat take away food and drink wine. I may not eat McDonalds, but then again I've RARELY eaten that. I live life like a perfectly normal person. It might not be everyone's normal, but it's normal to me.

And yes, for the CICO people, of course I count my calories and stick to a deficit. I know this is important as well, and is the whole reason I started at MFP.

Getting to my weight/fat loss goal is a combination of food, exercise, a calorie deficit and living life to it's fullest.

SanteMulberry

Thanks everyone for your contributions to my original post.

I am not affiliated in any way with SSoS and this was not an advertisement in any way, shape or form. I was simply sharing something I found and which has been working for me. I don't agree 100% with JB, but I quoted him because for the most part, he's got a good plan to live by.

I started at MFP in November, I've read IPOARM, Eat More to Weigh Less and other methods that are promoted on MFP. I ended up using the Spreadsheet with HeyBales help to work out my calories. I've joined groups, left groups, trying to find something that resonates with me. If anyone wishes, you can read my entire journey in my blog, I am a real person, just trying to work it all out and get to my goal. I found SSoS and it "clicked". From there, I started to read up on Primal and Paleo and in general, I like this way of eating. I do believe that 1500 calories of more natural foods are going to be better for me that 1500 calories of processed foods, so that's how I try to eat.

I think It's about growth: of understanding, acceptance, knowledge and listening to others viewpoints. I know I change my opinions and methods as I read more and find out about views on general health. Change is constant. That's a good thing.

As I said in a previous post, yes, I do eat some starchy carbs, this is an 80/20 thing for me, as most "dieters" are with their food plans. I don't feel like I am restricting myself, if I really want bread, I'll have it (as I did last weekend). I find that I can have a bigger meal with bolognese sauce served on veggies, so that is what I eat and I love it. I don't miss pasta. I still eat take away food and drink wine. I may not eat McDonalds, but then again I've RARELY eaten that. I live life like a perfectly normal person. It might not be everyone's normal, but it's normal to me.

And yes, for the CICO people, of course I count my calories and stick to a deficit. I know this is important as well, and is the whole reason I started at MFP.

Getting to my weight/fat loss goal is a combination of food, exercise, a calorie deficit and living life to it's fullest.

Quoted For Truth. Thanks for providing the information to us. :flowerforyou:

montana_girl

To the original OP - Thank you!

Since reading your original post I have started reading the book and listening to the podcasts. Although I may not agree with everything said/quoted in the book, it has been very eye opening. Also helped to explain the weeks were I would eat over my calorie goal and have a big loss and the weeks I would be spot on my calorie goal and gain. It wasn't always about the quanity of calories, but about the quality of the calories.

I recently started eating cleaner (or to keep the backlash to a minimum, I've been eating less processed foods and more whole foods) and have dropped over 5 pounds in three weeks, which I thought would be almost impossible being this close to goal.

I love that people are courageous enough to post differing ideas in regards to weight loss. Do I agree with everything posted? Absolutely not. But if the ideas, concepts, and suggestions "click" with me, I then do my own research to find out the truth (or fiction) behind it and make changes that works for me and my lifestyle.

I'm still learning about weight loss and maintainance, and I'm glad there are people out there to help me understand that, at times, it can be less about CICO and more about quality than quanity.

Thanks again! :flowerforyou:

carrington2005

Hi from another aussie, I would also like to thank the original OP. Before I came across your post, I too believed in the basic calories in/calories out, but then I listened to a lot of the SSOS podcasts and now know that the quality of the calories is important and keeps me feeling full. I am appalled to think that shows like The biggest loser and all those affiliated with that show are perpetuating bad eating and exercise practices that are no good to anyone. So big thank you! It has been an interesting journey.

emck3

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77tes

Interesting!

jayjay12345654321

I know this is a year old, but someone dug it up so it popped up at the top of the list. This man says not to eat bread because it doesn't grow on trees. So, did I miss the low fat cottage cheese tree somewhere?