Body pump as weight training ?
Replies
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This thread is hilarious, I am particularly enjoying reading the haughty comments of heavy lifters who clearly have never been to a class. I've been doing pump for several years now and I can tell you that my favourite moments are when those like these cocky 'heavy lifters' come to class and think they know it all. Yet halfway through the second track, the squat track, they realise they don't. They struggle so much with endurance, their form is appalling and they have to put their weights down well before the breaks. Yet they are probably lifting a fraction of what they would lift usually. They never come back.
Giving advice on classes you don't attend makes as much sense as me giving advice on heavy lifting which I don't do.
Ultimately I would like to combine the endurance benefits of pump with the strength gains of low reps, but I have so much more fun in pump than I would ever have lifting on my own in the gym. I have substantially increased my upper body strength through pump and it is very good for teaching technique.
Of course the heavy lifters don't excel in your class. They aren't endurance athletes. The fact that they do so poorly in a body pump class sort of proves the point that it's not heavy lifting, doesn't it?
I don't think ONE person said pump was heavy lifting, not one...
They said it was strength training, and her entire post proved the validity of those refuting it. It's endurance work.
You're picking one word...'heavy'...and using it to refute the validity of his entire comment. And for the record, that adjective was directly in response to the woman who posted how the 'heavy lifters' are giving advice on bodypump.0 -
I expect a lot of the time 'heavy lifters' don't do well for their first time in 'pump is that they over-estimate their abilities because they've got nothing to base it on.
No gym membership, but I'll have to get myself to a 'pump class next time I have one and see how I do - bet heavy lifting has improved my body pump performanace. Even if it takes a little time to get back in to it, I reckon I'd be doing more than I ever have before pretty quickly (I was normally matching the heaviest weights in the classes before - but that doesn't say much about me, just the others there
). 0 -
Don't be scared of the free weights section. Come to the dark side, it's sexier over here.0
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This thread is hilarious, I am particularly enjoying reading the haughty comments of heavy lifters who clearly have never been to a class. I've been doing pump for several years now and I can tell you that my favourite moments are when those like these cocky 'heavy lifters' come to class and think they know it all. Yet halfway through the second track, the squat track, they realise they don't. They struggle so much with endurance, their form is appalling and they have to put their weights down well before the breaks. Yet they are probably lifting a fraction of what they would lift usually. They never come back.
Giving advice on classes you don't attend makes as much sense as me giving advice on heavy lifting which I don't do.
Ultimately I would like to combine the endurance benefits of pump with the strength gains of low reps, but I have so much more fun in pump than I would ever have lifting on my own in the gym. I have substantially increased my upper body strength through pump and it is very good for teaching technique.
Of course the heavy lifters don't excel in your class. They aren't endurance athletes. The fact that they do so poorly in a body pump class sort of proves the point that it's not heavy lifting, doesn't it?
I don't think ONE person said pump was heavy lifting, not one...
They said it was strength training, and her entire post proved the validity of those refuting it. It's endurance work.
You're picking one word...'heavy'...and using it to refute the validity of his entire comment. And for the record, that adjective was directly in response to the woman who posted how the 'heavy lifters' are giving advice on bodypump.
it seems to me that you are both kinda fighting the same point....Kimad maintains it is more than just cardio, you will gain strength, and endurance...thus being some kind of lifting she does not maintain that it is heavy...and correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the same thing CrisAnderson is also saying? You wont "gain muscle" but you will gain strength....someone else made that point already too.0 -
I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.
You want cardio, go for a run.
ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.
I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.
Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.
That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.
Bodypump is absolutely the latter.
so what if i am doing pyramid set???? i am doing just as many reps as in a body pump class so is that considered endurance/cardio too???
a bunch of freaking know it all that dont know **** just because they are afraid to try new stuff. 3 sets of 10-12 reps of the same exercise over and over again gets very boring; keep it fresh
I agree, it's very boring. I just would hate to see someone who is curious complete stop what is working for them at their pace because some of us more 'advanced' lifters don't "consider" it to be partial weight training. I think this class is too easy for me but to another, it may be the beginning of learning a love for lifting.
I agree... there will come a time where I will have to leave the pump class for the larger muscles. I am getting very close to being unable to lift my squat weight above my head -- so I will need the machine for squats.
Hi!
please use a barbell for squats and not a machine...you will be able to do the correct form and it will be much more beneficial to you!0 -
I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.
You want cardio, go for a run.
ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.
I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.
Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.
That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.
Bodypump is absolutely the latter.
so what if i am doing pyramid set???? i am doing just as many reps as in a body pump class so is that considered endurance/cardio too???
a bunch of freaking know it all that dont know **** just because they are afraid to try new stuff. 3 sets of 10-12 reps of the same exercise over and over again gets very boring; keep it fresh
I agree, it's very boring. I just would hate to see someone who is curious complete stop what is working for them at their pace because some of us more 'advanced' lifters don't "consider" it to be partial weight training. I think this class is too easy for me but to another, it may be the beginning of learning a love for lifting.
I agree... there will come a time where I will have to leave the pump class for the larger muscles. I am getting very close to being unable to lift my squat weight above my head -- so I will need the machine for squats.
Hi!
please use a barbell for squats and not a machine...you will be able to do the correct form and it will be much more beneficial to you!
Dont worry she will be using the squat rack...not the smith machine...0 -
Well, What kind of lifting is this...
and yes, that is me... hot I know... how`s my form
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Lean back more so that the weight of the soda cans is squarely over your heels instead of your toes.0
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body bump is mostly cardio, not strength training. Great for immediate calorie burns, heart, lunges, endurance but not great for strength. You can only retain so much muscle with light weights (hardly any at all compared to heavy). If you go from couch potato to body pump you well look better, anything would, particularly if you're over weight. I firmed up a little from doing nothing to hiking allot and maintaining the same weight. That could only bring me so far though, and I was still squishy. But if you're looking at retaining your muscles, to get a leaner firmer look, heavier weights + calorie deficit would be your best bet.The weight section of my gym is too full of bulky men, and I just don't dare to go there, so I'm sticking to the machines, even if I know it isn't as effective as free weights. So, I was wondering if Body Pump class would be better than machines or not ? I don't wanna begin this if it doesn't provide me something more.
Thanks for your answer !
As for the people arguing about heavy lifters doing body pump: It's kind of a nonsense argument. Being bad at cardio doesn't mean you're not going to be leaner?...like...at all...And I don't mean ripped up drug pumped manly woman leaner I just mean firm and wonderful. I've done the cardio light weight classes over and over again, I was the person who was irritated at the heavy weight people because they thought they were cooler but couldn't do classes for crap but I didn't get any firmer then swinging around my purse all day and they did. Though my cardio got better. Not to say the classes were bad, they were great for endurance. But if your goal is for most of the weight you get rid of to be fat, then strength training is the way to go. Not endurance/cardio training with small weights.
And I'll poke this in since nobody seems to know. You will not get larger/bulk up on a calorie deficit doing anything, this seems to be a misconception with heavy weights.
You'll see many people say they get great results from body pump, I would bet those people were losing weight to see 'results'. I didn't get any great progress until I started with weights. Real ones, that progress over 20lb dumbbells. I finally started seeing that line going down the middle of my stomach.0 -
Lean back more so that the weight of the soda cans is squarely over your heels instead of your toes.
soda cans??? are you not a bud light lime fan? man!0 -
Bud light lime? That's a real thing?0
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It's the only beer I like...'cause I like beer that tastes like Candy lolBud light lime? That's a real thing?0 -
Love me some Body Pump! Whatever it's doing for my body, I LIKE!0
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I have mixed feelings about Pump, on one hand it gets people motivated to workout on the other most people don't see much increase in their strength and go into class believing it is something it isn't.
I went to Pump 2-3x a week for about, I don't know, maybe 6 - 9 months. There I was at the end mark only about 5 kg heavier (at the most) than when I started on each exercise. I then started working with a trainer who wasn't having me do a lot traditional weight training; a lot of functional stuff with intervals and some traditional weight lifting. I saw a tremendous increase in strength in a shorter amount of time. Fast forward to today, after a month and a half of compound lifts with the barbell I was a little stronger each week, not even comparable to Pump.
That is my story and it mirrors what I saw in class. In that time most people were still using the same weights they always used, not many people increased their weight.
I agree with the others that Pump is not a strength training class it is an endurance class. For those that asked for links, here ya go: http://www.shape.com/fitness/workouts/pump-fiction
"After eight weeks, subjects didn't show significant strength gain or body fat loss. The only measurable benefit was a gain in muscle endurance."
Even BodyPump's creators concur that it is an endurance class: "BodyPUMP promoters defend the use of light weights. "The reason for the light weight is that the program is designed to improve muscular endurance," Browning says. (Muscular endurance, experts agree, is important for activities lasting several hours, such as biking, hiking and skiing.) Browning says the Web site's increased-strength claim applies only to beginning exercisers, but this disclaimer doesn't appear on the site. "
BUT you don't need to do a gazillion reps to increase your endurance - "However, research shows that doing the traditional eight to 12 repetitions develops plenty of muscular endurance, while also building strength, bone and enough muscle mass to boost metabolism. "When you gain [muscular] strength you automatically gain [muscular] endurance, but apparently the opposite isn't true," says Wayne Westcott, Ph.D., fitness research director at Boston's South Shore YMCA.
Doing dozens of repetitions is not only unnecessary, Westcott says, but may increase risk of overuse injury"
And you are kidding yourself if you believe you are burning 400+ calories in class. http://muscleevo.net/body-pump/
"A study published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research looked at the calorie-burning effects of a 50-minute Body Pump workout.
Subjects burned, on average, 265 calories during the workout. The men burned a little more calories (315) compared to the women (214)."
Last, according to this study you aren't even getting an aerobic workout during the class duration: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2000/05000/Physiologic_and_Metabolic_Responses_to_a_Body_Pump.5.aspx
"Responses were below that necessary to elicit an aerobic-training effect and were lower than responses previously reported with circuit weight training."
Really, what is the point of bicep curling 10 kilos for 5 minutes? Being able to squat a light weight for a long time? I just don't see a lot of functional benefit. On the other hand training in the weight room will give you the strength needed to move heavy stuff when you need to do so without needing to ask for help.0 -
I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.
You want cardio, go for a run.
ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.
Agree completely. I've notice increased definition and a lot of strength/endurance since I started body pump.
I would encourage OP to take a class. If you put enough weight on, it is VERY challenging and you will see results.0 -
It's the only beer I like...'cause I like beer that tastes like Candy lolBud light lime? That's a real thing?
so it's like the beer equivalent of smirnoff ice?0 -
It's the only beer I like...'cause I like beer that tastes like Candy lolBud light lime? That's a real thing?
so it's like the beer equivalent of smirnoff ice?
I don't drink hard liquor that often, but BBL is tasty, give it a try? and well, it makes you lift heavy so really.. it's a win win0 -
The weight section of my gym is too full of bulky men, and I just don't dare to go there, so I'm sticking to the machines, even if I know it isn't as effective as free weights. So, I was wondering if Body Pump class would be better than machines or not ? I don't wanna begin this if it doesn't provide me something more.
Thanks for your answer !
My advice is to stick with the machines but lift heavy enough that 8-12 reps is difficult. Consider doing a little dumbbell work, maybe check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Womens-Health-Big-Book-Exercises/dp/1605295493 As you get more comfortable move onto compound lifts with a barbell with New Rules of Lifting (http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Women-Goddess/dp/1583333398) or Strong Lifts (http://stronglifts.com/). This is my version of dipping in your toe, then easing yourself in. Or just dive right into the compound lifts, you will see better results and they will come faster.0 -
Wow thank you for all your answers !
Firstly, to all those who told me to go in the "men" section : 1) there is no personal trainer in my gym to teach me the good moves. 2) I have no friend interested in weights. 3) The men look at me like a piece of meat everytime I walk there. So ... No I won't go there, at least before I know what to do there !
That's why I'll certainly try body pump, to learn the moves and see how I can deal with them. I'll do this once a week and do machines the other day. Oh and on the machines I do "middle reps" (10x3) so I think it isn't that bad .. ????0 -
1. 90% of people learned how to lift free weights without a personal trainer of knowledgeable friend. And that was before we had YouTube to show us proper form.
2. The guys in the gym are working out and have zero plans of attacking you. In fact, they will spot you and help with your form if you ask.
3. Body pump will teach you how to do body pump. Just like lifting doesn't make me better at body pump, body pump doesn't make you a better lifter. They are different things.
4. If you don't want to lift that's fine.0 -
I do Body Pump 2x a week (M & W) & on the other day (F) I do the machines. Maybe not the same as the "free weights" but I can feel it in my arms & legs. You get out of it what you put into it. For those who've never tried it - try putting 30+ lbs. on your shoulders & do 6 minutes of squats or lunges - not 5 or 10.....how about 100 - 150? May not be the "standard" strength training work out but it will benefit you.0
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No, just no.
Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.
Agreed.
It's basically cardio, but very effective cardio.0 -
I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.
You want cardio, go for a run.
ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.
I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.
You don't get the comparision? Lifting a bar with weights on it for biceps, is the same as sitting at the machine moving it for biceps.. it's a different tactic but works the same muscle. I did the weight circuit for close to a year, then have been at body pump for 3 months.. the results I have seen in the last 3 months of body pump are FAR GREATER than anything I ever saw on the weight machines.
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Your training routine was obviously not right if you saw minimal results compared to a body pump class.
Unless you were pushing light weights during training, in which case you don't really have an argument.0 -
Bump.0
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No, just no.
Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.
This is not true. I have managed good muscle definition doing Chalean Extreme. There was also a thread on here not long ago by a lady that looked very ripped and she had used very low weights, 3lbs.....I didn't see one person tell her she had done it wrong!!
Lifting heavy is great but it's not the be all and end all that so many people on this site will tell you.0 -
Who ever said there would be no gains? You get strength gains in your legs running miles on end as well...but that doesn't qualify it as 'strength training'.
You will build muscle with high reps. And it isn't "doing squat for you" (your words) in terms of strength training, if you are working to fatigue. Your post on what builds muscle implied that you won't build muscle with high reps. Low, medium, high all will build muscle using different mechanisms and with differing levels of increase. Medium may be "the best" but it doesn't mean that bodypump "isn't going to do squat" because it is high reps.
High reps are not hypertrophy, they do not build muscle.
High reps are only for endurance purposes.0 -
No, just no.
Pump is lifting light with lots of repetition. Good for fat burn but it almost becomes a cardio work out. You will see very little muscle definition and it will be very slow so if you actually want to work on building muscle then you need to lift heavy with low reps which pump does not do.
This is not true. I have managed good muscle definition doing Chalean Extreme. There was also a thread on here not long ago by a lady that looked very ripped and she had used very low weights, 3lbs.....I didn't see one person tell her she had done it wrong!!
Lifting heavy is great but it's not the be all and end all that so many people on this site will tell you.
The definition of "ripped" is often thrown around.
I do not doubt that this person held/holds very low body fat, which can be achieved from any exercise so long as the diet is in check.
Muscle mass? Now that may be debatable.
So whilst you're under the assumption that the lady is "ripped" due to low weights, I will educate you by informing you that shes possibly "ripped" due to her diet.0 -
lol, I am surprised crisanderson2 maintained his composure throughout this whole thread.
However I would've given up several posts ago because; when a bunch of ignorant , uninformative and knowledge lacking people get together, its usually a sign for the educated to move along. You have been outnumbered.
lmfao
60%+ of your 1RM and do proper programming and overloading.. that is all
many do 80%+ 1RM but its not necessary for beginners and not sound advice for people of all ages and/or physical conditions0 -
I have mixed feelings about Pump, on one hand it gets people motivated to workout on the other most people don't see much increase in their strength and go into class believing it is something it isn't.
I went to Pump 2-3x a week for about, I don't know, maybe 6 - 9 months. There I was at the end mark only about 5 kg heavier (at the most) than when I started on each exercise. I then started working with a trainer who wasn't having me do a lot traditional weight training; a lot of functional stuff with intervals and some traditional weight lifting. I saw a tremendous increase in strength in a shorter amount of time. Fast forward to today, after a month and a half of compound lifts with the barbell I was a little stronger each week, not even comparable to Pump.
That is my story and it mirrors what I saw in class. In that time most people were still using the same weights they always used, not many people increased their weight.
I agree with the others that Pump is not a strength training class it is an endurance class. For those that asked for links, here ya go: http://www.shape.com/fitness/workouts/pump-fiction
"After eight weeks, subjects didn't show significant strength gain or body fat loss. The only measurable benefit was a gain in muscle endurance."
Even BodyPump's creators concur that it is an endurance class: "BodyPUMP promoters defend the use of light weights. "The reason for the light weight is that the program is designed to improve muscular endurance," Browning says. (Muscular endurance, experts agree, is important for activities lasting several hours, such as biking, hiking and skiing.) Browning says the Web site's increased-strength claim applies only to beginning exercisers, but this disclaimer doesn't appear on the site. "
BUT you don't need to do a gazillion reps to increase your endurance - "However, research shows that doing the traditional eight to 12 repetitions develops plenty of muscular endurance, while also building strength, bone and enough muscle mass to boost metabolism. "When you gain [muscular] strength you automatically gain [muscular] endurance, but apparently the opposite isn't true," says Wayne Westcott, Ph.D., fitness research director at Boston's South Shore YMCA.
Doing dozens of repetitions is not only unnecessary, Westcott says, but may increase risk of overuse injury"
And you are kidding yourself if you believe you are burning 400+ calories in class. http://muscleevo.net/body-pump/
"A study published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research looked at the calorie-burning effects of a 50-minute Body Pump workout.
Subjects burned, on average, 265 calories during the workout. The men burned a little more calories (315) compared to the women (214)."
Last, according to this study you aren't even getting an aerobic workout during the class duration: http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2000/05000/Physiologic_and_Metabolic_Responses_to_a_Body_Pump.5.aspx
"Responses were below that necessary to elicit an aerobic-training effect and were lower than responses previously reported with circuit weight training."
Really, what is the point of bicep curling 10 kilos for 5 minutes? Being able to squat a light weight for a long time? I just don't see a lot of functional benefit. On the other hand training in the weight room will give you the strength needed to move heavy stuff when you need to do so without needing to ask for help.
♥
Really...I was posting from my phone all afternoon yesterday...there's no way I could have got that point across so clearly. 0 -
I did body pump regularly for a year and loved it. One day a few months in I thought I had a bruise on my shoulder....nope it was just my shoulders getting "cut" as my instructor said!! I got more tone/definition from body pump than by lifting on my own (because it is easier for me to stick with classes).
The key is to go often, and keep upping your weights. You'll see these women who stick with 5 pound weights for squats/legs, and that's not going to cut it if you want to get toned. I was using 20-30 pounds a side for squats (and when you squat for 5 minutes, that's ends up being a LOT) and 10-15 per side for arms/chest. Every couple of weeks/months you will want to up your weight - a good instructor can help you do this safely.0
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