The conspiracy to make (and keep us) fat...
Replies
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The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.
I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.
I did not read this whole thread but she did not say that in the OP.
"The conspiracy to make (and keep us) fat.."
And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.0 -
And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.
But...why? Why do they want to make us fat?0 -
Love this!0
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And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.
But...why? Why do they want to make us fat?
They don't.0 -
The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.
I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.
I did not read this whole thread but she did not say that in the OP.
"The conspiracy to make (and keep us) fat.."
And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.
You need to talk to alot more ppl on here because there are some stellar bods and ppl I have talked to that can consume more than per serving rec intake on these foods and are absol healthy as ever and fit. I know I can eat what I want when I want and as much as I want but not now because I am so fat from not counter balancing the intake of food with exercise. STOP blaming others for lack of self control and laziness of indidviduals. YOU do not have to eat the manufactureres foods you choose to!0 -
Vegans often attribute cutting meat/dairy to any beneficial changes in their life while ignoring the fact that many also cut refined/processed carbs and sugars.It's funny because I watched forks over knives with my fiance and it really really changed our perception of everything. I've been 100% vegan and 90% raw for soon to be two years, my hypothyroidism went away proven by blood work, my acne cleared up, my hair grew faster, and I slept much better and wasn't so drained all the time after I changed my diet around. I think meat and dairy is one big conspiracy and I say this because we're not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from beans which are also very high in fiber, we are not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from greens such as spinach and broccoli, and yet we are constantly told that we need to eat dairy and meat to survive. I have been a full on vegetarian for almost 3 years and a vegan for soon to be 2 years and in the past and I have not gotten sick once, I'm 18...three years ago in high school I missed 26 days out of a 180 day school year because I was so sick and exhausted all the time. I am living proof of how we are brain washed to think everything backwards and how I changed my life around once I realized this.
If you notice, BOTH raw vegan and paleo dieters state incredibly positive changes to adopting the diets they have... and the ONLY thing in common is the elimination of refined/processed carbohydrates and often the introduction of more fresh/whole foods.
This indicates meat/dairy isn't the problem, but the refined/processed carbohydrate and lack of fresh/whole foods in people's diet.
I sure do love meat
so thank u! 0 -
The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.
I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.
I did not read this whole thread but she did not say that in the OP.
"The conspiracy to make (and keep us) fat.."
And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.
Yeah, that's nice.
However, the OP claimed that there's a conspiracy to make and keep us fat.
This is false, and silly.0 -
My grocery store has pyramids of chocolate, pies, cookies and other assorted temptations confronting you as you walk in. One has to be very strong to resist the urge to buy them. Yes, the managers of the supermarket know this. I resist now. Judging by the high rate of obesity in the USA most cannot resist the siren call of sweets and salt and the food manufacturers just rake it in.
Cigarettes have been proven to be highly addictive. In some countries they are now going to have them covered in brown paper and I think NY is going to have them put out of plain sight. So, cigarettes thus will not be a temptation for many any longer, but FATTENING FOOD, is still out there displayed so as to tempt us and continuing to make many falter in their resolve.
I think the markets should put some apples up front and have bigger vegetarian sections, but that will never happen so onwards with the bottles upon bottles of high fructose "pop" hahaha.0 -
You need to talk to alot more ppl on here because there are some stellar bods and ppl I have talked to that can consume more than per serving rec intake on these foods and are absol healthy as ever and fit. I know I can eat what I want when I want and as much as I want but not now because I am so fat from not counter balancing the intake of food with exercise. STOP blaming others for lack of self control and laziness of indidviduals. YOU do not have to eat the manufactureres foods you choose to!
Nothing here disagrees with anything I have said.
Food manufacturers spend billions of dollars figuring out how to get you to eat waaaaay more food than you would otherwise. Because that makes them more money.
There are going to be loads of people who don't respond to the bliss point. There are also going to be people who have a lot self control and never fall victim to it. There are people who can smoke a cigarette every once in a while and then not think about. It is still a good idea to remind people of how addictive nicotine is.
If you are struggling to lose weight, it can only help to understand the bliss point and supernormal stimuli and how you are up against some very powerfully motivating forces when you buy a bag of potato chips. You will have an easier time losing weight if you avoid the sorts of foods that are designed to manipulate you.
That is all.0 -
Vegans often attribute cutting meat/dairy to any beneficial changes in their life while ignoring the fact that many also cut refined/processed carbs and sugars.It's funny because I watched forks over knives with my fiance and it really really changed our perception of everything. I've been 100% vegan and 90% raw for soon to be two years, my hypothyroidism went away proven by blood work, my acne cleared up, my hair grew faster, and I slept much better and wasn't so drained all the time after I changed my diet around. I think meat and dairy is one big conspiracy and I say this because we're not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from beans which are also very high in fiber, we are not told about the high amounts of proteins we can get from greens such as spinach and broccoli, and yet we are constantly told that we need to eat dairy and meat to survive. I have been a full on vegetarian for almost 3 years and a vegan for soon to be 2 years and in the past and I have not gotten sick once, I'm 18...three years ago in high school I missed 26 days out of a 180 day school year because I was so sick and exhausted all the time. I am living proof of how we are brain washed to think everything backwards and how I changed my life around once I realized this.
If you notice, BOTH raw vegan and paleo dieters state incredibly positive changes to adopting the diets they have... and the ONLY thing in common is the elimination of refined/processed carbohydrates and often the introduction of more fresh/whole foods.
This indicates meat/dairy isn't the problem, but the refined/processed carbohydrate and lack of fresh/whole foods in people's diet.
NON-Vegans (especially heavy meat-eaters and dairy consumers) often get insecure and defensive whenever a vegetarian or vegan suggests that much of the food they eat is basically hormone-laden, steroid and antibiotic filled garbage. :bigsmile: 0 -
Yeah, that's nice.
However, the OP claimed that there's a conspiracy to make and keep us fat.
This is false, and silly.
I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.0 -
Yeah, that's nice.
However, the OP claimed that there's a conspiracy to make and keep us fat.
This is false, and silly.
I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She implies there's a concerted effort to make us fat. The companies are not trying to make us fat. Full stop. The headline is wrong.0 -
You need to talk to alot more ppl on here because there are some stellar bods and ppl I have talked to that can consume more than per serving rec intake on these foods and are absol healthy as ever and fit. I know I can eat what I want when I want and as much as I want but not now because I am so fat from not counter balancing the intake of food with exercise. STOP blaming others for lack of self control and laziness of indidviduals. YOU do not have to eat the manufactureres foods you choose to!
Nothing here disagrees with anything I have said.
Food manufacturers spend billions of dollars figuring out how to get you to eat waaaaay more food than you would otherwise. Because that makes them more money.
There are going to be loads of people who don't respond to the bliss point. There are also going to be people who have a lot self control and never fall victim to it. There are people who can smoke a cigarette every once in a while and then not think about. It is still a good idea to remind people of how addictive nicotine is.
If you are struggling to lose weight, it can only help to understand the bliss point and supernormal stimuli and how you are up against some very powerfully motivating forces when you buy a bag of potato chips. You will have an easier time losing weight if you avoid the sorts of foods that are designed to manipulate you.
That is all.
.................If you are struggling to lose weight, it can only help to understand the bliss point and supernormal stimuli and how you are up against some very powerfully motivating forces when you buy a bag of potato chips. You will have an easier time losing weight if you avoid the sorts of foods that are designed to manipulate you.
Wouldnt it better serve an unknowing individual to instead teach them that the above mentioned has nothing to do with them if they had self control and were to abide by the clear labels on the packaging? Here let me shed a little more light on it.....everyone knows drugs are bad but you never hear arguments like this over them. They are abundant in my world and very very much a craving and satiating exp for me. BUt when I took responsibility for my own life I stopped using them. Do I want to use..hell yes....will I? I dont know...depends if I lose self control. If a dealer comes over and wants to give free rides in order to TRY and HOOK me again there is always the possibility I may get weak and do it. So yes avoiding these situations is key but not realistic. Self control is the only way to truly do this.0 -
Yeah, that's nice.
However, the OP claimed that there's a conspiracy to make and keep us fat.
This is false, and silly.
I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She implies there's a concerted effort to make us fat. The companies are not trying to make us fat. Full stop. The headline is wrong.
No. You inferred that there is a concerted effort to make us fat. Since that idea isn't in the OP itself, that probably isn't what she was trying to say.0 -
Many of us have heard of the "Bliss factor". I believe it. In fact, I eat foods that are delicious and make me feel great due to high sugar and fat content. However, I take responsibility for the things I eat, and don't go hog wild and blame it on the industry. It's hard to fight it when there are high calorie foods everywhere that you just want to keep eating. But in the end, it's up to the person whether or not they'll do what the industries want.
^ This.
You can look at this two ways, IMO.
1. It's a conspiracy and "food corporations" are in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and hospitals to get us sick and wring money from us.
or
2. We, as consumers, demand cheap, tasty, fattening food and the market is willing to provide it for us.
I think option #2 is much more likely.
you'd be wrong...#1 is the right answer. I know, because I work for a pharmaceuticals company. Nothing they love than sick people living longer....and the younger they get sick, so very much the better.
they want us to all live a long time with at least one chronic malady that requires pharmaceutical treatment to control. 'tis the way of capitalism.
It has *nothing* to do with capitalism. It's the regulations imposed by the progressives that gave us the mega-corporations where smaller businesses are unable to compete in an open market. These mega-corporations are chosen by government to be "the anointed ones" and protected through the regulatory process (check the board of the FDA, for starters). It is the use of force that created the current U.S. food & drug market, not freedom or capitalism.
Quite true, Wendy. The coercive Nanny State is a product of "neo-liberalism" which is anything but new and certainly not liberal in the original meaning of the word, as favoring the common man. I give you the original meaning of the term "liberal": "Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property."
Our current brand of "neo-liberalism" is ill-disguised fascism. Here is Mussolini's favorite definition of fascism: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."0 -
Yeah, that's nice.
However, the OP claimed that there's a conspiracy to make and keep us fat.
This is false, and silly.
I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She implies there's a concerted effort to make us fat. The companies are not trying to make us fat. Full stop. The headline is wrong.
No. You inferred that there is a concerted effort to make us fat. Since that idea isn't in the OP itself, that probably isn't what she was trying to say.
It's literally what she did say. She literally said that there's a conspiracy to make us fat.
Your argument is ridiculous and invalid.0 -
Wouldnt it better serve an unknowing individual to instead teach them that the above mentioned has nothing to do with them if they had self control and were to abide by the clear labels on the packaging? Here let me shed a little more light on it.....everyone knows drugs are bad but you never hear arguments like this over them. They are abundant in my world and very very much a craving and satiating exp for me. BUt when I took responsibility for my own life I stopped using them. Do I want to use..hell yes....will I? I dont know...depends if I lose self control. If a dealer comes over and wants to give free rides in order to TRY and HOOK me again there is always the possibility I may get weak and do it. So yes avoiding these situations is key but not realistic. Self control is the only way to truly do this.
I know addicts. They avoid situations where drugs are present and consider that a key factor in their continued sobriety. They also take full responsibility when they use. You can, and should, do both. We can, and should, talk about all aspects of the obesity epidemic.0 -
Just another opportunity to not take personal responsibility for what YOU shove into YOUR piehole. Nobody is forcing you to eat these foods. It's a choice.0
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It's literally what she did say. She literally said that there's a conspiracy to make us fat.
Your argument is ridiculous and invalid.
This is just an infinite loop at this point.
I have to break out of it.0 -
It's a mix of the two. Yes, they want to to make the food as delicious as possible and have people buy more and more, and keep coming back to buy more. However we are responsible for our eating habits.
It's a double edged sword. People will argue both sides of the issue. You can't blame it all on the corporations, and yet it's okay to indulge occasionally too. We get fat for eating too much food that is bad for us. Overly strict, self imposed "willpower" can backfire and causes binges with some people.
My advice is to occasionally indulge, but don't go crazy.0 -
The OP is wrong. There's no conspiracy to make us fat. There's a concerted effort on the part of companies to create foods people want to buy. They don't really care whether or not we get fat eating it.
I think this is equivocating. The conspiracy described by the OP is between food companies and evolution. So I don't think it is fair to assume she is talking about the 'secret plan' type of conspiracy. I think she is clearly talking the 'confluence of factors' type of conspiracy. Which is a valid usage of that word.
She is saying their goal is to make us fat, which is ridiculous. Their goal is to sell us food.
I did not read this whole thread but she did not say that in the OP.
Um... it is in the post title... plus throughout the op.0 -
Just another opportunity to not take personal responsibility for what YOU shove into YOUR piehole. Nobody is forcing you to eat these foods. It's a choice.
You are a genius *hands you a slice of turkey bacon* :drinker:0 -
Wouldnt it better serve an unknowing individual to instead teach them that the above mentioned has nothing to do with them if they had self control and were to abide by the clear labels on the packaging? Here let me shed a little more light on it.....everyone knows drugs are bad but you never hear arguments like this over them. They are abundant in my world and very very much a craving and satiating exp for me. BUt when I took responsibility for my own life I stopped using them. Do I want to use..hell yes....will I? I dont know...depends if I lose self control. If a dealer comes over and wants to give free rides in order to TRY and HOOK me again there is always the possibility I may get weak and do it. So yes avoiding these situations is key but not realistic. Self control is the only way to truly do this.
I know addicts. They avoid situations where drugs are present and consider that a key factor in their continued sobriety. They also take full responsibility when they use. You can, and should, do both. We can, and should, talk about all aspects of the obesity epidemic.
I take just as much full responsibility for using as I do for staying sober...it is never a part time action lol One side makes me feel like a complete loser the other a strong aware individual. Yes avoiding is key but like I said b4 not realistic. How about this? Go to a country or deserted island where there is no over abundance of any of products that are telling you to buy them and eat them every which way you turn. Or stay here and have self control. The result is the same...weight loss lol0 -
And I already explained the meaning of this.
The way we evolved to survive and the way food manufacturers design food in order to maximize sales conspire to make (and keep us) fat.. That is true.
But...why? Why do they want to make us fat?
Fatter people buy more food.0 -
I can't believe that people don't think that these food companies want to make us fat! Of course they do!
Fat people need more calories. Fat people eat more food. Fat people buy more food. Fatter people = higher profits.
The food industry is unique in that there are limits on its product's consumption, and that limit is the average person's stomach. You make their stomach bigger, you can move more product and make more money.
It's in their best interest for everyone to have a very large stomach. This is why they make more money selling larger sizes for only pennies more (supersize for only 10 cents!), the more we eat the more we need to eat and the more we will buy.0 -
I love how conversations like this always turn into an issue of mutual exclusivity. I didn't see the original post say anything about not being personally responsible for ones own weight or health. Just because the original poster believes that companies add **** to their food to make it more enticing, doesn't necessitate that she believes that is the sole reason why people are overweight. It can't be that the original poster understands that corporations are out to make money, thus making their product as appealing as possible, no matter what the consequence, AND believes in personal responsibility, and that people do in fact have the ability to make choices about their own health and bodies? Why is this an either/or proposition? I don't think the original poster phrased it in a way that suggested mutual exclusivity (even if that was her intention), so why are so many people here responding as if she did? All of you pro McDonald's, I eat ice cream every day, blah blah blah people, good for you, you can suffer whatever consequence may or may not come from that later, but what, exactly, does that have to do with acknowledging the fact that companies use additives in their food with the specific purpose of making their food more addictive? ...the two ideas aren't in opposition.0
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I love how conversations like this always turn into an issue of mutual exclusivity. I didn't see the original post say anything about not being personally responsible for ones own weight or health. Just because the original poster believes that companies add **** to their food to make it more enticing, doesn't necessitate that she believes that is the sole reason why people are overweight. It can't be that the original poster understands that corporations are out to make money, thus making their product as appealing as possible, no matter what the consequence, AND believes in personal responsibility, and that people do in fact have the ability to make choices about their own health and bodies? Why is this an either/or proposition? I don't think the original poster phrased it in a way that suggested mutual exclusivity (even if that was her intention), so why are so many people here responding as if she did? All of you pro McDonald's, I eat ice cream every day, blah blah blah people, good for you, you can suffer whatever consequence may or may not come from that later, but what, exactly, does that have to do with acknowledging the fact that companies use additives in their food with the specific purpose of making their food more addictive? ...the two ideas aren't in opposition.
^^^^^^yep0 -
It's true that food is a business and the business goal is to profit, but also, we don't have to be so ignorant about it. People have been told their WHOLE life to eat their vegetables. So I don't think it's Big Business's job to make us healthy, it's our job to be informed then not buy the bad products. I blame HOLLYWOOD for most of our social demise because were do you see the ads that make you drool? Usually TV. And why are we watching TV? Hollywood fantasies. Hollywood misrepresents people, places and concepts and then we sit through that and sit through hours of advertising along with it. Set aside the TV and I bet half of hte fat battle in this country would be won.
When I was a kid, cable TV was something you paid for so you could watch movies with no advertising. Now you STILL pay, the ads are not only back but there are ticklers, popups, and channel pimping going on throughout your program. And, a kid can now feed on sugar while atching Nickelodeon 24 x 7 instead of PLAYING OUTSIDE like we used to do.
People have gotten lazy and quite frankly, more ignorant (the nicest word I could find). And there would be a BIG BUSINESS catering to health but quite frankly, there is not a customer base for that. If that is what we demand, believe me, the businesses will rush to meet that need. I too avoid meats as much as I can. I abhor factory farming for what it does to the animals...and what crap we are eating when you consider the anibiotics, the feed thru fly control, and the bad chemistry an animal has surging through its veins from pure frustration and boredom of being tightly confined in tehir own manure. That's not waht animals were put on this earth for.0 -
You know, I have a conspiracy theory about organic foods. Slap a label on anything that says "organic" and certain folks will gladly shell out as much money as you ask - no questions asked. Organic foodies are totes brainwashed.
QFT
Also, when the FDA changed the rules on what can be labelled as "organic," the "anointed" Kraft Foods was leading the lobby charge. They recognized a great marketing campaign when they saw it and used the force of government to get in the game.
I thought there were no conspiracies? or did that only apply to processed foods? conspiracies a-plenty when it comes to organic food!
lol
No conspiracies? Visit Washington DC sometime or view C-SPAN. I'm just saying that you are looking at the wrong place for the root cause.
ETA:The widest conspiracy yet (imo) is the demonization and subsequent prohibition of the cannabis plant.
where am I looking if not the gov't and its ties with big food corps like monsanto? please enlighten me.
Ok, you didn't carefully read what I wrote. The U.S. government is to blame for the mess we are in regarding food and health. The corporations exist because of government. They thrive because of the regulatory/bureaucratic process. Monsanto specifically is protected in legislation, especially quite recently, to the detriment of U.S. farmers and consumers.
Basically, I view the FDA/USDA/DEA as being run similiarly to cartels. I say the government deserves the brunt of the blame because they have the power to use force. Private companies do not have such power. They simply try to earn a profit no matter the market conditions.
so... we agree about all this.
you said I'm looking for conspiracy in the wrong places... but we agree... I'm really confused.0 -
Many of us have heard of the "Bliss factor". I believe it. In fact, I eat foods that are delicious and make me feel great due to high sugar and fat content. However, I take responsibility for the things I eat, and don't go hog wild and blame it on the industry. It's hard to fight it when there are high calorie foods everywhere that you just want to keep eating. But in the end, it's up to the person whether or not they'll do what the industries want.
^ This.
You can look at this two ways, IMO.
1. It's a conspiracy and "food corporations" are in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and hospitals to get us sick and wring money from us.
or
2. We, as consumers, demand cheap, tasty, fattening food and the market is willing to provide it for us.
I think option #2 is much more likely.
you'd be wrong...#1 is the right answer. I know, because I work for a pharmaceuticals company. Nothing they love than sick people living longer....and the younger they get sick, so very much the better.
they want us to all live a long time with at least one chronic malady that requires pharmaceutical treatment to control. 'tis the way of capitalism.
It has *nothing* to do with capitalism. It's the regulations imposed by the progressives that gave us the mega-corporations where smaller businesses are unable to compete in an open market. These mega-corporations are chosen by government to be "the anointed ones" and protected through the regulatory process (check the board of the FDA, for starters). It is the use of force that created the current U.S. food & drug market, not freedom or capitalism.
Quite true, Wendy. The coercive Nanny State is a product of "neo-liberalism" which is anything but new and certainly not liberal in the original meaning of the word, as favoring the common man. I give you the original meaning of the term "liberal": "Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas such as free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property."
Our current brand of "neo-liberalism" is ill-disguised fascism. Here is Mussolini's favorite definition of fascism: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
you realize of course that liberalism and fascism are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, yes?0
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