Clean vs. Junk - does it really matter?

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  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    As well as making a judgment based on how people look to determine how valid their contribution was to the topic.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    Who cares what they look like? IIFYM-ers love to preach. Even more than I do. :tongue:

    (I also want it known, that when I use the term IIFYM-er, I use it in the way the GOP uses the word "liberal", in that I'm not referring to the likes of sarauk2sf, mmapags etc, who actually DO eat mostly whole foods. I'm talking about extremists who have bastardized the phrase)
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    Who cares what they look like? IIFYM-ers love to preach. Even more than I do. :tongue:

    (I also want it known, that when I use the term IIFYM-er, I use it in the way the GOP uses the word "liberal", in that I'm not referring to the likes of sarauk2sf, mmapags etc, who actually DO eat mostly whole foods. I'm talking about extremists who have bastardized the phrase)

    So you use the term in an intentionally provocative way that excludes most people who actually advocate the practice.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    Who cares what they look like? IIFYM-ers love to preach. Even more than I do. :tongue:

    (I also want it known, that when I use the term IIFYM-er, I use it in the way the GOP uses the word "liberal", in that I'm not referring to the likes of sarauk2sf, mmapags etc, who actually DO eat mostly whole foods. I'm talking about extremists who have bastardized the phrase)

    But the issue was...most of who commented did not fall into your definition of IIFYM - the extreme 'eat all the poptarts' kind. Yet, the comment was made disparagingly about us (I assume I was in that group as I commented on one of the 3 pages the poster actually semi-read).
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    Who cares what they look like? IIFYM-ers love to preach. Even more than I do. :tongue:

    (I also want it known, that when I use the term IIFYM-er, I use it in the way the GOP uses the word "liberal", in that I'm not referring to the likes of sarauk2sf, mmapags etc, who actually DO eat mostly whole foods. I'm talking about extremists who have bastardized the phrase)

    So you use the term in an intentionally provocative way that excludes most people who actually advocate the practice.

    bro i'm talking about you when I use it.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    Your error was mischaracterizing those who disagree with you. Lean male doesn't mean bodybuilder, bulking, or never been fat.

    What do you mean?

    You sarcastically said this is a thread where bodybuilders tell everyone else how to eat. You misunderstood pretty much everyone in the thread as well as what they were saying.

    Who cares what they look like? IIFYM-ers love to preach. Even more than I do. :tongue:

    (I also want it known, that when I use the term IIFYM-er, I use it in the way the GOP uses the word "liberal", in that I'm not referring to the likes of sarauk2sf, mmapags etc, who actually DO eat mostly whole foods. I'm talking about extremists who have bastardized the phrase)

    But the issue was...most of who commented did not fall into your definition of IIFYM - the extreme 'eat all the poptarts' kind. Yet, the comment was made disparagingly about us (I assume I was in that group as I commented on one of the 3 pages the poster actually semi-read).

    that's fair.
  • breeshabebe
    breeshabebe Posts: 580
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    But no-one is saying to eat junk all the time and no-one is saying you have to eat junk at all. All people are saying it that you do not have to 'eat clean' all the time.

    You made a disparaging comment about people - you later admitted that you had only read the first three pages, and it was obvious that you had not read them very well.

    Just as you find it annoying that people jump down your throat for 'eating clean' (which is not something they should do - if it works for you, then it is the best 'diet' for you), others, that do incorporate some 'unclean' food in their diet find it annoying to have disparaging comments made about them. It works both ways.

    It wasn't meant to be "disparaging".... my personality is dry/ sarcastic... so if it came off that way, then I apologize. I'm cool as a cucumber here... no throat jumping.
    I've read the thread, and still do not take back my comments. Disagreeing with what what said=/= not reading.
    I'm not hating on people that are in better shape than me... but I also won't agree that we have the same goals. "whaattt your not trying to be rippped???" I didn't say that... but my goal isn't just to lose weight, but to be healthier overall and I don't believe that eating junk is the way to get to where I want to be. I understand that everyone here isn't advocating icecream for breakfast...But the topic title is clean vs. junk... as though its either/ or.
  • MassiveDelta
    MassiveDelta Posts: 3,311 Member
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    Does any of this really matter? The zombies are coming!
  • Mdin1029
    Mdin1029 Posts: 456 Member
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    I don't know if you would look the same but what you mentioned about energy, skin, etc are more important to me. Take care of your body if you want increased energy and decreased chances of illness. Or eat crap and feel like crap.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    But no-one is saying to eat junk all the time and no-one is saying you have to eat junk at all. All people are saying it that you do not have to 'eat clean' all the time.

    You made a disparaging comment about people - you later admitted that you had only read the first three pages, and it was obvious that you had not read them very well.

    Just as you find it annoying that people jump down your throat for 'eating clean' (which is not something they should do - if it works for you, then it is the best 'diet' for you), others, that do incorporate some 'unclean' food in their diet find it annoying to have disparaging comments made about them. It works both ways.

    It wasn't meant to be "disparaging".... my personality is dry/ sarcastic... so if it came off that way, then I apologize. I'm cool as a cucumber here... no throat jumping.
    I've read the thread, and still do not take back my comments. Disagreeing with what what said=/= not reading.
    I'm not hating on people that are in better shape than me... but I also won't agree that we have the same goals. "whaattt your not trying to be rippped???" I didn't say that... but my goal isn't just to lose weight, but to be healthier overall and I don't believe that eating junk is the way to get to where I want to be. I understand that everyone here isn't advocating icecream for breakfast...But the topic title is clean vs. junk... as though its either/ or.

    You just do not get it...you have now insinuated that my only goal is to lose weight..../smh
  • breeshabebe
    breeshabebe Posts: 580
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    But no-one is saying to eat junk all the time and no-one is saying you have to eat junk at all. All people are saying it that you do not have to 'eat clean' all the time.

    You made a disparaging comment about people - you later admitted that you had only read the first three pages, and it was obvious that you had not read them very well.

    Just as you find it annoying that people jump down your throat for 'eating clean' (which is not something they should do - if it works for you, then it is the best 'diet' for you), others, that do incorporate some 'unclean' food in their diet find it annoying to have disparaging comments made about them. It works both ways.

    It wasn't meant to be "disparaging".... my personality is dry/ sarcastic... so if it came off that way, then I apologize. I'm cool as a cucumber here... no throat jumping.
    I've read the thread, and still do not take back my comments. Disagreeing with what what said=/= not reading.
    I'm not hating on people that are in better shape than me... but I also won't agree that we have the same goals. "whaattt your not trying to be rippped???" I didn't say that... but my goal isn't just to lose weight, but to be healthier overall and I don't believe that eating junk is the way to get to where I want to be. I understand that everyone here isn't advocating icecream for breakfast...But the topic title is clean vs. junk... as though its either/ or.

    You just do not get it...you have now insinuated that my only goal is to lose weight..../smh

    Well, I kind of can't win. I disagree with the IIFYM. I do believe that eating clean is overall better for me... that's not to trump what you are doing. Do what you wanna do.
  • shosho420
    shosho420 Posts: 220 Member
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    I have been on alot of other calorie counting websites and this is the only one I have seen rep unhealthy eating. Even to go as far as to spam pictures of highly unhealthy foods. Other forums are not like this, someone asks about slim fast bars or juice fasting and they get a dose of reality, not a bunch of people telling them its a "good idea" like they do on here. No other calorie forum I have ever seen thinks its alright to eat as much junk as the people on this site.
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    I don't know if you would look the same but what you mentioned about energy, skin, etc are more important to me. Take care of your body if you want increased energy and decreased chances of illness. Or eat crap and feel like crap.

    QFT :drinker:
  • bobf279
    bobf279 Posts: 342 Member
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    I just eat less of what I have been eating for years and exercise daily. Aim for 5 a day and enjoy.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Well, I kind of can't win.

    Not when you continue making assumptions like that
    I disagree with the IIFYM.

    Because you do not understand it.
    I do believe that eating clean is overall better for me... that's not to trump what you are doing.

    As I said - if it works for you, it is the best 'diet' *for you.
  • BIW2012
    BIW2012 Posts: 97 Member
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    Great topic! I actually started writing out the same thread yesterday, but I couldn't word it right so I deleted it.

    I think there are a lot of benefits to eating clean, not just weight loss. I also think that clean, healthy foods keep your blood sugars more levelled out than processed junk.

    Not sure who would weigh more or less, but I love your comparison!
  • breeshabebe
    breeshabebe Posts: 580
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    Well, I kind of can't win.

    Not when you continue making assumptions like that
    I disagree with the IIFYM.

    Because you do not understand it.
    I do believe that eating clean is overall better for me... that's not to trump what you are doing.

    As I said - if it works for you, it is the best 'diet' *for you.

    I understand IIFYM. I disagree with it. Again... disagreeing=/=not understanding/not reading.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    In order to make this a more fair comparison you would want to make sure each person is getting identical macronutrients for their needs and sufficient micronutrients.

    In the example you've listed the person eating exclusively junk, would have a horrible macro profile and may possible be micronutrient deficient.

    The person eating the whole foods diet probably wouldn't have those issues and as such they'd likely end up healthier and with a better body composition.

    But that being said, this doesn't mean calories aren't calories nor does it negate the first paragraph you wrote.

    The people advocating junk food shouldn't (and hopefully aren't) suggesting a diet exclusively of junk food. There exists a middle ground where macros are set properly, micronutrients are plentiful, and "some" junk food is included into the otherwise already healthy and sufficient diet. In a situation like this I'd expect minimal to zero differences in body composition vs a completely whole foods diet.

    Some food for thought, although just a snapshot:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17536194
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

    Re-quoting here as pertinent
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Well, I kind of can't win.

    Not when you continue making assumptions like that
    I disagree with the IIFYM.

    Because you do not understand it.
    I do believe that eating clean is overall better for me... that's not to trump what you are doing.

    As I said - if it works for you, it is the best 'diet' *for you.

    I understand IIFYM. I disagree with it. Again... disagreeing=/=not understanding/not reading.

    You disagree with it as a concept or you disagree with it for you?
  • CoachReddy
    CoachReddy Posts: 3,949 Member
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    In order to make this a more fair comparison you would want to make sure each person is getting identical macronutrients for their needs and sufficient micronutrients.

    In the example you've listed the person eating exclusively junk, would have a horrible macro profile and may possible be micronutrient deficient.

    The person eating the whole foods diet probably wouldn't have those issues and as such they'd likely end up healthier and with a better body composition.

    But that being said, this doesn't mean calories aren't calories nor does it negate the first paragraph you wrote.

    The people advocating junk food shouldn't (and hopefully aren't) suggesting a diet exclusively of junk food. There exists a middle ground where macros are set properly, micronutrients are plentiful, and "some" junk food is included into the otherwise already healthy and sufficient diet. In a situation like this I'd expect minimal to zero differences in body composition vs a completely whole foods diet.

    Some food for thought, although just a snapshot:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17536194
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

    Re-quoting here as pertinent

    However, Sara, some DO advocate diets consisting primarily of "junk foods", and because you/magerum/etc align yourselves with them, it leads many to believe that you don't disagree with that.

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