Clean vs. Junk - does it really matter?
Replies
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2647706/
i found his "study"
Its a hypothesis based off an observation
all of that is linked to straight up people with inactivity and not a balanced diet
its like saying OD on aspirin can cause you to bleed to death
therefore aspirin will kill you It is a dumb correlation.
http://ajprenal.physiology.org/content/293/4/F1256.full
in regards to renal problems
They did the test on animals that ALREADY HAD CKD. you cannot compare that to a normal person
When you start talking about research, please read the studies before you spew out garbage
I jump twice in the morning when i wake up. I have lost 50 lbs over the past year.
therefore jumping twice makes me lose weight,. forget the fact i was on a hypocaloric diet0 -
This is a good article to read about IIFYM- If It Fits Your Macros. Meaning, it doesn't make a difference if you are eating processed or "clean" foods, as long as you are hitting your macronutrients (carbs, fats, proteins) daily. The article explains this very well.
http://www.doyoueven.com/2013/01/iifympart1/
^^^ This is how I live and I've been the same weight (110 pounds) for 9+ years and keep getting better fitness-wise.
I don't believe in cutting anything out entirely, more of "moderation moderation moderation".
The only time I change this is for a couple of weeks heading into a vacation because certain foods/beverage tend to bloat me.0 -
I say it matters. Simple carbs are going to turn into fat before lean protein or complex carbs. HFCS is an evil that keeps you thinking you are hungry. I know there some who advocate and swear by eating processed garbage, but I found that for MYSELF, if I eat that stuff it only hurts me. I would rather eat lean meat and veggies and see progress, than eat pizza, cheese sticks, and drink soda and be bloated, tired, and fatter that I was that morning.
However, I really wish someone would do that project. Identical twins going at that diet and exercise program for 1 year. It would be interesting.
Some of the leanest people on this site advocate IIFYM. I honestly have never seen anyone on this site advocate an entire diet of junk food. EVER! So I can only assume that it is IIFYM'ers that you refer to with your above statement. You obviously have no real understanding of how IIFYM works. In order to achieve, IIFYM the majority of your diet has to be clean. The concept allows for some indulgence which makes it easier to maintain. Can you honestly say that your diet is 100% clean? Or do you allow yourself the occassional treat? Or do you just break down and binge and then hop back up on the 'clean' horse again the next day?
this is what I think. I think the holier than thou are actually making little mistakes here and there and just not fessing up. i also think the "dirty" eaters eat cleaner than they take the time to mention because their "dirty" parts are what keeps them going. so all in all I think really everyone's eating pretty much almost the same but it's just a matter of how you set your mind to it. SOme people seem to prefer to give off the image of perfection and strive for that and don't even let themselves look at the slip ups while others eat mostly good and look forward to those little treats they already know will be there. Two sides of the same coin.
This is what I was getting at, but rather than opening her mind up to the possibility that one is not all that far from the other, she will defend herself to a hilt, in spite of the fact that she doesn't argue the subject (that's about all she's done).0 -
I say it matters. Simple carbs are going to turn into fat before lean protein or complex carbs. HFCS is an evil that keeps you thinking you are hungry. I know there some who advocate and swear by eating processed garbage, but I found that for MYSELF, if I eat that stuff it only hurts me. I would rather eat lean meat and veggies and see progress, than eat pizza, cheese sticks, and drink soda and be bloated, tired, and fatter that I was that morning.
However, I really wish someone would do that project. Identical twins going at that diet and exercise program for 1 year. It would be interesting.
Some of the leanest people on this site advocate IIFYM. I honestly have never seen anyone on this site advocate an entire diet of junk food. EVER! So I can only assume that it is IIFYM'ers that you refer to with your above statement. You obviously have no real understanding of how IIFYM works. In order to achieve, IIFYM the majority of your diet has to be clean. The concept allows for some indulgence which makes it easier to maintain. Can you honestly say that your diet is 100% clean? Or do you allow yourself the occassional treat? Or do you just break down and binge and then hop back up on the 'clean' horse again the next day?
this is what I think. I think the holier than thou are actually making little mistakes here and there and just not fessing up. i also think the "dirty" eaters eat cleaner than they take the time to mention because their "dirty" parts are what keeps them going. so all in all I think really everyone's eating pretty much almost the same but it's just a matter of how you set your mind to it. SOme people seem to prefer to give off the image of perfection and strive for that and don't even let themselves look at the slip ups while others eat mostly good and look forward to those little treats they already know will be there. Two sides of the same coin.
What are you suggesting? I am not lying about my diet. I assume some do. I am also not holier than thou. I gave my answer to the post, and all of a sudden I am holier than thou, closet binging and what not? If I eat something I shouldn't I do acknowledge my mistake and do my best not to go back. However, cheating on my established diet has proved destructive to my over all effort. I stay on track because I know myself. If go off and "slip" as you say, I will fall back for the whole week. I eat what I like, and if my dietary choices bother you then you have problems. I don't let anyone elses diet keep me up at night. Neither should you or anyone else. Live and let live for crying out loud.
No one said you can't eat the way that you want. What was said is that you have made some very big presumptions about others diets that are wholly inaccurate.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.0
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Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
I'm certainly not huge, or a bodybuilder. I'm 157 lbs at about 14.5% body fat.
And you know what? I didn't start that way. I started at 210 pounds 40% body fat.
If you don't want the kinds of results people like me and others have gotten - that is, you don't want to be lean, toned, and strong - then by all means ignore our suggestions.
You seem to be convinced that you're a special snowflake, and the things that have worked wonders for people like myself, Sara, Taso, and others are not applicable to you.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
^ Hmm lost a lot of weight eating a sensible diet where nothing is off limits. *shrug* Some people just HAVE to believe that eating "clean" is the only way it will work for them and spread the nonsense to anyone else that will listen.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
I'm not a body builder... though I do strength train. My ticker shows my loss and I still have another 40 lbs to lose. Nobody was telling anyone to do anything. As a matter of fact, what was suggested was that for the most part, we all eat virtually the same. Clean eaters do not eat 100% clean and IIFYM'ers do not eat 100% junk.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
Yea cause it doesnt make sense right?
energy cannnot be created or destroyed only transferred.
I am not just a bodybuilding enthusiast but I am a nursing student.
Regardless if you want to defy the new research that has been published onthe national institute of health library. This is the new information about macronutrients, micronutrients and usage of calories by the body.
In anyway are we not advocating to avoid good foods but it is possible to incorporate both sides into a normal diet.
What do you mean we dont have much to lose? you think I started off like this?
50 lbs in 137 days/19 weeks.
I was fat like most people so I dont know what you are talking about
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq243/delgadido/ultimateprogress-1.jpg0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
Oh good...another response by a special snowflake that doesn't actually read the posts she likes to criticize.0 -
What do you mean we dont have much to lose? you think I started off like this?
50 lbs in 137 days/19 weeks.
I was fat like most people so I dont know what you are talking about
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq243/delgadido/ultimateprogress-1.jpg
Wow! Great job!0 -
I would also like to add on top of being a nursing student I am a nutrition enthusiast who looks at articles that are properly published and scholarly journals of nutrition.
I dont follow some bull**** thing I heard from some guy at the gym nor do i follow some bathroom writing by some random website that could have been created by a 10 year old
During my whole entire weight loss, I have defied every rule that there has been in regards to weight loss, nutrition, and muscle gain0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
Please actually read what people are saying.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
My calorie goal is 1675. My girlfriend's is 1100. I can't imagine you consume less than that.
Here's the facts, for you and for me and for anyone else: Eat TDEE - 25%. Eat 1 gram per lb of lean body mass in protein. Eat 0.3*your body weight as grams of fat. Get the rest as carbs.
That applies to everyone, assuming your goals are to lose weight and maintain muscle mass. The entire point of this whole thread is that it doesn't matter how you hit those goals.
I don't think you've even read the thread.0 -
You can lose weight if you eat only junk staying within your calories, however if you switch to eating clean you will get toner. It really depends on what your goals are. I eat a chocolate bar everyday and I have abs, I do fine with it so long as the rest of my day is practically ''clean''0
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however if you switch to eating clean you will get toner.
No.0 -
No, not unless you have some kind of metabolic disorder / syndrome.
Having said that I'm sure I read somewhere that about 1/3rd of Americans are either diabetic or prediabetic so refined carbs in particular may not be the greatest choice for a large number of people on this website...0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
No one, anywhere is telling you to consume the same calories as anyone else.0 -
I don't understand why people get so evangelical about eating processed food?
"I don't eat clean" is hardly a badge of honour.
I don't understand why people get so evangelical about eating clean food?
"I eat clean" is hardly a badge of honour.
I agree! 0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
I am a 45 year old woman who has a desk job and does no cardio. Is my advice valid?
You may not have been trying to discourage, but your comment was pretty disparaging to be honest.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
My calorie goal is 1675. My girlfriend's is 1100. I can't imagine you consume less than that.
Here's the facts, for you and for me and for anyone else: Eat TDEE - 25%. Eat 1 gram per lb of lean body mass in protein. Eat 0.3*your body weight as grams of fat. Get the rest as carbs.
That applies to everyone, assuming your goals are to lose weight and maintain muscle mass. The entire point of this whole thread is that it doesn't matter how you hit those goals.
I don't think you've even read the thread.
Thats my point though. "Junk" is pricer calories wise... so it does make a difference. Your girlfriend can eat a whole meal at McDonalds and then thats all of her calories for the day. Would that be a legit lifestyle?
Maybe I'm not on the same page here... I read the first 3 pages... maybe yall have come to some conclusion that I didn't see.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
My calorie goal is 1675. My girlfriend's is 1100. I can't imagine you consume less than that.
Here's the facts, for you and for me and for anyone else: Eat TDEE - 25%. Eat 1 gram per lb of lean body mass in protein. Eat 0.3*your body weight as grams of fat. Get the rest as carbs.
That applies to everyone, assuming your goals are to lose weight and maintain muscle mass. The entire point of this whole thread is that it doesn't matter how you hit those goals.
I don't think you've even read the thread.
Thats my point though. "Junk" is pricer calories wise... so it does make a difference. Your girlfriend can eat a whole meal at McDonalds and then thats all of her calories for the day. Would that be a legit lifestyle?
Maybe I'm not on the same page here... I read the first 3 pages... maybe yall have come to some conclusion that I didn't see.
But not every meal at McDonald's is going to be 1100 calories. McDonald's is one of the handful of fast food places that tries to offer healthier alternatives to their mainstay product offerings.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme
I agree with this 100%. So.. if this is what everyone is saying and I misunderstood, then I apologize.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme
I agree but I never see IIFYMers preaching anything but moderation.
It usually goes like this:
Person asks how to lose weight
Clean eater tells them they have to eat clean, whole, unprocessed, sugarless, blah, blah, foods.
IIFYMer says thats not true. You can lose weight by creating a calories deficit and still enjoying those foods.
Clean eater gets defensive and says "so you can eat nothing but junk food and still lose weight?"
IIFYMer: "I never said that but technically that is correct."
Clean eater: "You are extreme!"
LOL0 -
My two cents: junk food makes you hungry for more junk food. Also, it doesn't fill you up as much for the same amount of calories. That's just basic and obvious I guess, but you asked!0
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I agree with this 100%. So.. if this is what everyone is saying and I misunderstood, then I apologize.
You mentioned that you read the first 3 pages. You cannot have read them very well as the very first response explains it.0 -
*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme
I agree but I never see IIFYMers preaching anything but moderation.
It usually goes like this:
Person asks how to lose weight
Clean eater tells them they have to eat clean, whole, unprocessed, sugarless, blah, blah, foods.
IIFYMer says thats not true. You can lose weight by creating a calories deficit and still enjoying those foods.
Clean eater gets defensive and says "so you can eat nothing but junk food and still lose weight?"
IIFYMer: "I never said that but technically that is correct."
Clean eater: "You are extreme!"
LOL
LOL see and this conversation goes the exact opposite for me.
Person asks how to lose weight
IIFYMer tells them that they eat icecream/fast food to lose weight.
Clean eater says thats not true. You can lose weight by eating better quality foods and by creating a deficit.
IIFYMer gets defensive and says "you don't have to eat rabbit food to lose weight. I eat tacobell everday and look at my muscles. "
Clean Eater: "I never said that but it would make you feel better."
IIFYMer "You are extreme!"0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
^ Hmm lost a lot of weight eating a sensible diet where nothing is off limits. *shrug* Some people just HAVE to believe that eating "clean" is the only way it will work for them and spread the nonsense to anyone else that will listen.
Hmmm. I'm not sure that I said that eating clean was the only way.0
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