Clean vs. Junk - does it really matter?
Replies
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K. Thanks.
I agree with this 100%. So.. if this is what everyone is saying and I misunderstood, then I apologize.
You mentioned that you read the first 3 pages. You cannot have read them very well as the very first response explains it.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
I am now an aspiring body builder (well working on body composition) but by no means do I consider myself one but I have lost a few pounds by conquering my food addictions by controlling food and not allowing it to control me.... I do not consider any food off limits and because of this I no longer have craving because if it fits my caloric intake and macro's it is fair game on my meal plan.....0 -
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
^ Hmm lost a lot of weight eating a sensible diet where nothing is off limits. *shrug* Some people just HAVE to believe that eating "clean" is the only way it will work for them and spread the nonsense to anyone else that will listen.
Hmmm. I'm not sure that I said that eating clean was the only way.
Good because that would be incorrect.0 -
You can enjoy the food that you eat that is junk but you will suffer from hunger*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme
I agree but I never see IIFYMers preaching anything but moderation.
It usually goes like this:
Person asks how to lose weight
Clean eater tells them they have to eat clean, whole, unprocessed, sugarless, blah, blah, foods.
IIFYMer says thats not true. You can lose weight by creating a calories deficit and still enjoying those foods.
Clean eater gets defensive and says "so you can eat nothing but junk food and still lose weight?"
IIFYMer: "I never said that but technically that is correct."
Clean eater: "You are extreme!"
LOL
There are plenty of things in research and they talk about weight gain.
in a isocaloric comparison between multiple diets with the same macros it wont affect weight gain or weight loss in difference
They talk about the physical effects
the psychological effects are that you are still hungry. and your stomach is growling
ex. can you eat 1 donut and be satisfied?
what about 1 bagel?
probably 2 donuts = one bagel as far as filling.
but the donut has the same amount if any a little more calories.
so 2 donuts = one bagel Satiety wise
2 donutes = 2.5 bagels calorie wise.
People are misinterpretign what IIFYM really is.
it should technically be IIFYMAM
If it fits your macros and micronutrients, which it was supposed to properly be.
now we can take vitamins all day but obtaining micronutrients from whole food is much better.(there are studies in regards to this)
on top of that potassium supplements are horrid as far as what you pay for what you get.
Moderation is the key, but dieting on "clean" food is much easier than dieting on "junk" food alone on a psychological perspective.0 -
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
^ Hmm lost a lot of weight eating a sensible diet where nothing is off limits. *shrug* Some people just HAVE to believe that eating "clean" is the only way it will work for them and spread the nonsense to anyone else that will listen.
Hmmm. I'm not sure that I said that eating clean was the only way.
Good because that would be incorrect.
Thanks for keeping me in line?0 -
however if you switch to eating clean you will get toner.
Good because my printer is out of toner at the moment. I thought I was going to have to call someone.0 -
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
Completely agree with this. IIFYM has a real PR problem (as does Paleo for that matter).0 -
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
Also why the potato diet is so effective0 -
You can enjoy the food that you eat that is junk but you will suffer from hunger*HUGE EYE ROLL* @ the special snowflake comments. Yes... I am a special snowflake that tries to eat clean and loses weight?
My point wasn't discourage anyone from doing anything. Do whatever you want really. I just get tired of people singleing out "clean eaters" like they are trying to convert everyone to clean eating.... all the while theres this HUGE explination as to why clean eaters stop being such food snobs and eat some junk. It's kinda hypocritical.
It's hard to take advice from strong body builder men because I don't need to consume near the calories that they do. What doesn't fit into your macros?
look I am not trying to say eat junk food only or clean food only
1 lb of fat makes up 3500 calories.
your body burns an X amount of calories everyday and if you eat under that you will be in a deficit.
the calories your body burns is based off of total daily energy expenditure.
ex. 500 calorie deficit every day x 7, it will take a week to lose 1 lb of fat
if you can only consume 1250 calories a day you can use any type of food to fill those calories.
now non-processed foods are much more filling than food that is processed.
but if you want to eat something like half a candy bar that you been craving it isnt bad just to get that craving.
sometimes people crave junk food so much but they wont eat it. eventually they will give in and binge like mad.
google satiety index
the higher the number the more filling it is and many people will agree.
I dont know about everyone else but a IIFYMer should be preaching moderation. not being extreme
I agree but I never see IIFYMers preaching anything but moderation.
It usually goes like this:
Person asks how to lose weight
Clean eater tells them they have to eat clean, whole, unprocessed, sugarless, blah, blah, foods.
IIFYMer says thats not true. You can lose weight by creating a calories deficit and still enjoying those foods.
Clean eater gets defensive and says "so you can eat nothing but junk food and still lose weight?"
IIFYMer: "I never said that but technically that is correct."
Clean eater: "You are extreme!"
LOL
There are plenty of things in research and they talk about weight gain.
in a isocaloric comparison between multiple diets with the same macros it wont affect weight gain or weight loss in difference
They talk about the physical effects
the psychological effects are that you are still hungry. and your stomach is growling
ex. can you eat 1 donut and be satisfied?
what about 1 bagel?
probably 2 donuts = one bagel as far as filling.
but the donut has the same amount if any a little more calories.
so 2 donuts = one bagel Satiety wise
2 donutes = 2.5 bagels calorie wise.
People are misinterpretign what IIFYM really is.
it should technically be IIFYMAM
If it fits your macros and micronutrients, which it was supposed to properly be.
now we can take vitamins all day but obtaining micronutrients from whole food is much better.(there are studies in regards to this)
on top of that potassium supplements are horrid as far as what you pay for what you get.
Moderation is the key, but dieting on "clean" food is much easier than dieting on "junk" food alone on a psychological perspective.
People can adapt to very small amounts of food and not "feel" hungry regardless of what they are eating. There is also the psychological aspect of eating or depriving certain foods and mental health issues associated with classifying foods and as "clean" or "dirty". Orthorexia.
http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/All-or-Nothing Dieting & Eating Disorder Risk
In 1997, a general physician named Steven Bratman coined the term orthorexia nervosa [21], which he defines as, “an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy food.” It reminds me of the counterproductive dietary perfectionism I’ve seen among many athletes, trainers, and coaches. One of the fundamental pitfalls of dichotomizing foods as good or bad, or clean or dirty, is that it can form a destructive relationship with food. This isn’t just an empty claim; it’s been seen in research. Smith and colleagues found that flexible dieting was associated with the absence of overeating, lower bodyweight, and the absence of depression and anxiety [22]. They also found that a strict all-or-nothing approach to dieting was associated with overeating and increased bodyweight. Similarly, Stewart and colleagues found that rigid dieting was associated with symptoms of an eating disorder, mood disturbances, and anxiety [23]. Flexible dieting was not highly correlated with these qualities. Although these are observational study designs with self-reported data, anyone who spends enough time among fitness buffs knows that these findings are not off the mark.
Most people fail diets because they try to be too restrictive and cravings get the better of them. Educating people that an overly restrictive diet is not necessary may help them to be successful.0 -
People are misinterpretign what IIFYM really is.
it should technically be IIFYMAM
If it fits your macros and micronutrients, which it was supposed to properly be.
now we can take vitamins all day but obtaining micronutrients from whole food is much better.(there are studies in regards to this)
on top of that potassium supplements are horrid as far as what you pay for what you get.
Moderation is the key, but dieting on "clean" food is much easier than dieting on "junk" food alone on a psychological perspective.
Not really arguing with you on most of this, but I'm one of those people that track potassium after a bout with dieter's edema.
In many cases, I find one of the easiest ways to get my potassium is from processed foods.
For example, there is far more potassium in 8 oz of orange juice than in a single orange. There is far more potassium in a can of tomato paste than in a single tomato. And there is a certain brand of canned soups that I eat frequently that could easily give me 1000+ g of potassium in a single meal (I eat the whole can which is two servings, and never more than 300 calories).
Orange juice, canned tomatoes, and canned soup would be considered 'dirty' by a clean-eaters standard, but I couldn't make that potassium goal by consuming whole foods alone.0 -
Does micro-nutrition matter to you?
/thread.0 -
http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
By satiety index, are you referring to the glycemic index?0 -
Can't clean be junk? For example, I could make a cake with butter I turned myself, flour I ground myself...totally clean and unprocessed, but it's still unhealthy.0
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My situation is not related to orthexia. I am talking about what is more filling and they do have talks about satiety will vary from food to food.People can adapt to very small amounts of food and not "feel" hungry regardless of what they are eating. There is also the psychological aspect of eating or depriving certain foods and mental health issues associated with classifying foods and as "clean" or "dirty". Orthorexia.
I dont know anyone that can adapt to eating super small amounts of food even on heavy appetite suppressants. I am talking about the stuff that is illegal0 -
Can't clean be junk? For example, I could make a cake with butter I turned myself, flour I ground myself...totally clean and unprocessed, but it's still unhealthy.
I would say absolutely (though I wouldn't go to that much trouble) but then others would say it couldn't be clean because you had to use sugar.0 -
Can't clean be junk? For example, I could make a cake with butter I turned myself, flour I ground myself...totally clean and unprocessed, but it's still unhealthy.
Please, send it to me. Save yourself.0 -
nohttp://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
By satiety index, are you referring to the glycemic index?
it was a study about the satisfaction of food with 13 subjects i believe.
it talks about what food is more filling
you can google it and read up on it0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
^ Hmm lost a lot of weight eating a sensible diet where nothing is off limits. *shrug* Some people just HAVE to believe that eating "clean" is the only way it will work for them and spread the nonsense to anyone else that will listen.
Hmmm. I'm not sure that I said that eating clean was the only way.
Good because that would be incorrect.
Thanks for keeping me in line?
Glad you realize the comment about bodybuilders with very little to lose was out of line and incorrect and that no one said "eat whatever". Glad I could help.0 -
Just here to say that I thought the topic was "Clean junk- does it matter?"0
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nohttp://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
By satiety index, are you referring to the glycemic index?
it was a study about the satisfaction of food with 13 subjects i believe.
it talks about what food is more filling
you can google it and read up on it
I will. I'm just not understanding how satiety can be quantified to be indexed. But I will read about it.0 -
Oh good... another post where a bunch of body builders/ huge men/ women who don't have much to lose try to convince us all that eating whatever is okay and laugh at the attempt to eat healthy/clean.
I agree. While don't agree with the "clean" label, I do eat mostly whole food most of the time. I know my self, and I know my own personal factors, some of which are medical. I know what works for myself. I can never understand why people want to attack others for not enjoying junk food. It makes me feel physically bad. I eat what I like. I just hit the ignore button on the vultures who like to dogpile on others. They only bring destruction. They don't want to build anyone up as long as they can get away with tearing us down. I say to each his own.0 -
My situation is not related to orthexia. I am talking about what is more filling and they do have talks about satiety will vary from food to food.People can adapt to very small amounts of food and not "feel" hungry regardless of what they are eating. There is also the psychological aspect of eating or depriving certain foods and mental health issues associated with classifying foods and as "clean" or "dirty". Orthorexia.
I dont know anyone that can adapt to eating super small amounts of food even on heavy appetite suppressants. I am talking about the stuff that is illegal
I was just trying to say that how full a certain food can make you is not usually a very big factor in this discussion and will vary per person and their habits. It is good info to know for those that are struggling with feeling hungry but not as helpful to those that struggle with cravings. All different factors in developing a diet that can be sustained.0 -
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Glad you realize the comment about bodybuilders with very little to lose was out of line and incorrect and that no one said "eat whatever". Glad I could help.
I don't think it was out of line, nor incorrect... but maybe directed at the wrong source.0 -
nohttp://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
By satiety index, are you referring to the glycemic index?
it was a study about the satisfaction of food with 13 subjects i believe.
it talks about what food is more filling
you can google it and read up on it
I also believe (as in this is my personal opinion) that for some people consumption of relatively large amounts of "junk" food can lead to lower energy levels than would be the case with "clean" food.
This in turn has an affect on NEPA / NEAT (pick your acronym) which I am coming to consider plays a much larger part in weight loss than is usually credited to it.0 -
of course.
My situation is not related to orthexia. I am talking about what is more filling and they do have talks about satiety will vary from food to food.People can adapt to very small amounts of food and not "feel" hungry regardless of what they are eating. There is also the psychological aspect of eating or depriving certain foods and mental health issues associated with classifying foods and as "clean" or "dirty". Orthorexia.
I dont know anyone that can adapt to eating super small amounts of food even on heavy appetite suppressants. I am talking about the stuff that is illegal
I was just trying to say that how full a certain food can make you is not usually a very big factor in this discussion and will vary per person and their habits. It is good info to know for those that are struggling with feeling hungry but not as helpful to those that struggle with cravings. All different factors in developing a diet that can be sustained.
there are too many extremes in this world
from nutrition to health to fitness and to life.
Hell I even lift for about 35 minutes for my diet plan. I can still DB press 120 x 7 each arm
moderation is the key to everything0 -
Eating clean makes it easier to achieve results, however, moderation is a good practice if you do desire less beneficial foods. For some, denying foods that one considers enjoyable can cause a mental roadblock affecting commitment.
Perfectly said!0 -
i can imagine low energy levels due to micronutrient deficiency. i havent had any problem.
nohttp://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-12-clean-eating-vs-iifym-if-it-fits-your-macros/
Different sides of the same coin...
yea iifym has been tarnished by saying only eating junk food
both are the key.
thats is why paleo is so effective due to the satiety index
By satiety index, are you referring to the glycemic index?
it was a study about the satisfaction of food with 13 subjects i believe.
it talks about what food is more filling
you can google it and read up on it
I also believe (as in this is my personal opinion) that for some people consumption of relatively large amounts of "junk" food can lead to lower energy levels than would be the case with "clean" food.
This in turn has an affect on NEPA / NEAT (pick your acronym) which I am coming to consider plays a much larger part in weight loss than is usually credited to it.
i am on a pretty high deficit so i am low on energy due to caloric intake.0
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