WTF? air line to charge by weight of CUSTOMER

rborkows

Fair or not, the plane doesn't care, it's simply a matter of weight.

I recently got my private pilot's license, and my tiny two-seater trainer plane can weigh 1670 pounds max for takeoff. That includes the empty plane itself, fuel, engine oil, passengers, baggage. Any excess weight on the pilot & passenger means less room for fuel with consequent reduced operating range.

Part of the reason I'm losing weight is so I can put more fuel in the tank :-)

Jessi_Brooks

I read about this a few weeks ago, I was suprised anyone I told didnt seem to be bothered. I think its horrible that they want to signle out people to pick on. Itsnt it just another form of racisim?
What about the fact that muscle weighs more than fat? The whole idea is terrible in my opinion. And it can only help people to become depressed about their weight from public humiliaton.

You're on to something here...the parallels to transportation-related laws during the Jim Crow period are endless.

It's not singling out "fat". Taller people, people with a lot of muscle will be subject to it, just as people who choose to pack a lot of extra clothes. This wasnt introduced as a way to curb obesity or to deal with space issues, it's about the weight added to the plane, not just the person but everything on them and with them.

^ This exactly.

Right right, but for the purpose of explaining how it could potentially play out in a hypothetical legal scenario, think of it this way:

Two people have to take the exact same flight on the exact same day for strong personal reasons (meaning to say, the flight can't be moved to several months from now for either one of them.)

They have control over the size of their suitcases so each backs a 20lb suitcase.

One is a 5'1" woman who is small boned and a normal weight at 110lbs. She's active and maintains her weight easily.
One is a 5'9.5" woman. She has a larger frame due to her height, and played college sports so is muscular. However, she's put on 30lbs since the birth of her child 6 months ago. She weighs 200lbs. She's currently in the process of getting fit but that's where she is at the time of her flight.

Should she be forced to pack a smaller suitcase to afford the flight? Even if she brings NOTHING AT ALL (which is unreasonable) she's still paying much more than the first. She should have to cancel her trip until she is "thin enough" to afford it? Does this, ultimately, seem fundamentally fair?

I'm honestly not saying it is definitely unfair, I'm just interested in how it could be presented. I think its an interesting legal concept that could have implications for all sorts of "fat taxes" that people already debate (such as the new soda laws in NY.) What it comes down to is- is it FAIR to make life more expensive for a heavier person? (Regardless of if that heaviness comes from fat, muscle, height, or genetics?)

I honestly think its interesting. Not sure what my decision would be.

It is unfair for a very muscley person. you know, someone with 10% BF, and big muscles who is in great shape, but wieghs a lot because of it. In this case, it sucks for that person.

It sucks for overweight people, it sucks for tall people, it sucks for muscular people, and it sucks for the woman that wants to pack her whole wardrobe.

But the cost of flying a plane is dependent upon weight, and those people contribute to a higher cost of flying, so unfortunately for them, I think its fair.

I definitely see what you mean though, someone would most likely take it to court, and possibly win. This thread proves that some people find it discriminatory, a judge could find it that way too.

Willowana

Not to mention, it sucks for pregnant women.

Boobarella2

I love how everyone reads one word and jumps on it like starved dogs. I didnt not say this had anything to do with race. I said it was discrimination just like raceism is discrimination. Yes I could have worded what I said better but I'm pretty sure your all intelegent enough to understand what I meant.

3dogsrunning

I read about this a few weeks ago, I was suprised anyone I told didnt seem to be bothered. I think its horrible that they want to signle out people to pick on. Itsnt it just another form of racisim?
What about the fact that muscle weighs more than fat? The whole idea is terrible in my opinion. And it can only help people to become depressed about their weight from public humiliaton.

No it is not just another form of racism, it is a consequence of a choice...the choice to be fat. I don't have a problem with charging by weight. Fat people on planes cause fuel costs to rise (subsidized by our skinnier friends), make seating difficult and uncomfortable for neighbors, and could potentially present a safety risk in the event of emergency evacuation. On a recent flight I sat next to someone who was morbidly obese for 4 hours. Took up her seat and half of mine. The plane was full so there was no chance I could get moved. It was very uncomfortable. She needed to buy two seats since she borrowed half of mine for free. Having said all this, I would not be the cheapest ticket on the plane either, but fair is fair...use more space, use more fuel, pay more.

Fr some people being fat is not a choice. You cant know every intamate detail about every single human being on the earth, thus you have no idea why, how or when the person next to you became obese.

Getting healthy is a choice.

A logical, non humiliating solution would be to offer larger seat to accomodate larger passengers, thus they pay more for their own comfort. Not for the comfort for some ignorant person who has judged them for their apearence.

I get the first part. But I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not about shaming anyone. It's not about seat size. It's not about size. It's about weight which plays a huge factor in flying. How much the plane weighs affect fuel usage, how much fuel they put in the plane, how much runway is required, how much the plane will weigh when it lands, etc etc. Larger airlines don't have to worry as much about this but this particular airline has much smaller planes where weight plays more of a factor.
Like I said before, it's total weight you take on the plane including luggage, not if you are obese or not. The airline doesn't care if you are 150 lbs with 50 lbs of luggage or if you are 200 lbs with no luggage. You would pay the same.

Delicate

If it comes down to safety, im for it

if it comes down to money grabbing by airlines, im not for it

Maybe they should do a BMI chart of flight fees!

2FatToRun

Thoughts of fat me.....NOT FAIR how dare them
Thoughts of new me.....exercise harder I can think of better ways to spend that money.

As a fat person I cant feel sorry for other fat ppl anymore, if lazy me after over a decade of drinking,drugs, and face feeding can do this anyone can.

3dogsrunning

Well, I think if they are charging by the weight, they need to put a person on the same scale as their luggage. One flat fee.

The question I have is, do they fill a flight quicker if the passengers weigh more (less people per load = empty seats)? Or do they still cram everyone in like sardines?

Because on one hand, it might be a safety issue, and on the other hand, it could just be pure greed.

That is exactly the idea. Except its a flat fee per pound.

They still sell seats with people estimating their weight. I suspect if they ended up overweight they would do what all airlines do and hold back some luggage for another flight to prevent the plane from being overweight (happened to me on my las trip on a regular airline)

ahviendha

i love it!

meshashesha2012

As well they should

Right on!

agreed. i'm overweight and i fit in the seat but there are many people who dont and who should be charged for taking up 2 seats.

and c'mon now it's samoan air.....

squirrelzzrule22

I read about this a few weeks ago, I was suprised anyone I told didnt seem to be bothered. I think its horrible that they want to signle out people to pick on. Itsnt it just another form of racisim?
What about the fact that muscle weighs more than fat? The whole idea is terrible in my opinion. And it can only help people to become depressed about their weight from public humiliaton.

You're on to something here...the parallels to transportation-related laws during the Jim Crow period are endless.

It's not singling out "fat". Taller people, people with a lot of muscle will be subject to it, just as people who choose to pack a lot of extra clothes. This wasnt introduced as a way to curb obesity or to deal with space issues, it's about the weight added to the plane, not just the person but everything on them and with them.

^ This exactly.

Right right, but for the purpose of explaining how it could potentially play out in a hypothetical legal scenario, think of it this way:

Two people have to take the exact same flight on the exact same day for strong personal reasons (meaning to say, the flight can't be moved to several months from now for either one of them.)

They have control over the size of their suitcases so each backs a 20lb suitcase.

One is a 5'1" woman who is small boned and a normal weight at 110lbs. She's active and maintains her weight easily.
One is a 5'9.5" woman. She has a larger frame due to her height, and played college sports so is muscular. However, she's put on 30lbs since the birth of her child 6 months ago. She weighs 200lbs. She's currently in the process of getting fit but that's where she is at the time of her flight.

Should she be forced to pack a smaller suitcase to afford the flight? Even if she brings NOTHING AT ALL (which is unreasonable) she's still paying much more than the first. She should have to cancel her trip until she is "thin enough" to afford it? Does this, ultimately, seem fundamentally fair?

I'm honestly not saying it is definitely unfair, I'm just interested in how it could be presented. I think its an interesting legal concept that could have implications for all sorts of "fat taxes" that people already debate (such as the new soda laws in NY.) What it comes down to is- is it FAIR to make life more expensive for a heavier person? (Regardless of if that heaviness comes from fat, muscle, height, or genetics?)

I honestly think its interesting. Not sure what my decision would be.

FTR I'm here for the same reason you are, I find the idea interesting but don't know what my decision is. This is the third thread I've participated on and the only one that has actual arguments on it.

My question is does it have to be fair? There are presumably other airlines and modes of travel. It is a private company. What legal responsibility do they have to be fair to the public?

Larger people often pay more for clothes. Is that not the same?

True, very true.

But another issue could come up with the disparate impact of it- for example, if it is shown to have a significant impact on certain communities that are more "protected" than simply weight....I can think of a couple possibilities: What if accross the board, this ends up having a statistically significant impact on men? Or mothers? I can even envision race coming into play, as where I live in the greater DC area, statistically speaking the African American population is much heavier an average than the white DC population. (Silly hypo, of course, but) If this were a DC area airline you can BET it would affect one race much more than another.

Honestly what I think of as a 5'8" female with a normal BMI is that if I wanted to fly to Florida with my 5'2" normal-but-on-the-low-end BMI roommate and we both packed a dress, flip flops, and a bikini....I would pay much more, and I would be ticked off.

That being said, it absolutely is a private company and that safety/ weight issue is totally valid for flying small planes!

autumnpath

I think its a good idea. That means that I can carry the 50lbs I lost as luggage instead of fat

LOL. I like that idea! :0)

brianlampert

When I was in Fiji we had to be weighed to make sure the 12, or so, of us would all fit on the plane. We weighed too much and they had to send a second plane just for our luggage. I'll bet they wished we paid per pound.

It makes a big difference on those smaller planes. We also had assigned seats that would properly balance the plane.

3dogsrunning

True, very true.

But another issue could come up with the disparate impact of it- for example, if it is shown to have a significant impact on certain communities that are more "protected" than simply weight....I can think of a couple possibilities: What if accross the board, this ends up having a statistically significant impact on men? Or mothers? I can even envision race coming into play, as where I live in the greater DC area, statistically speaking the African American population is much heavier an average than the white DC population. (Silly hypo, of course, but) If this were a DC area airline you can BET it would affect one race much more than another.

Honestly what I think of as a 5'8" female with a normal BMI is that if I wanted to fly to Florida with my 5'2" normal-but-on-the-low-end BMI roommate and we both packed a dress, flip flops, and a bikini....I would pay much more, and I would be ticked off.

That being said, it absolutely is a private company and that safety/ weight issue is totally valid for flying small planes!

As someone who is always on the higher end of BMI even when I am very lean it would be a similar situation.
I'm sti sorting out what I think about it I am just trying to get past the knee jerk reaction. Weight is such a sensitive issue but it is a different context here which I find interesting.

slkehl

I don't think it's discriminatory to make people pay more if they weigh more. I have to pay more if my luggage weighs over 50 lbs.

I'd definitely be a fan of a rule that you must buy two seats at a certain size, though I'm not sure how they could make a firm rule since size is influenced by weight, height, muscle mass, ect.

257_Lag

I am all for this concept. We are nothing more than cargo that needs to poop and pee. Charge by TOTAL weight, bags and all! They are a business after all.

And for all the people that think this can never happen mainstream I guarantee that major airlines have employees or are employing firms to analyze the reaction to this news. No doubt they will read this post as well as 1000's of others.

It won't happen soon, but it will happen eventually.

cwolfman13

Actually, weighing customers isn't really anything new. This is the first I've heard of paying by weight, but it makes sense actually for these types of flights. I've spent my fair share of time puddle jumping on these little jumpers in Central America and the Caribbean. I've been denied getting on a flight because it would have been overweight with me on the plane...I've had my luggage have to come on another flight and even by ferry because they would have overloaded the plane. It absolutely makes sense to pay by the pound for this type of flight.

Look at it this way, let's say the cost of a jump is $100. The plane has enough capacity (very hypothetical) to carry 350 Lbs. The company could have one individual at 350 Lbs and make $100 or two people weighing 175 Lbs and make $200. With a flat fee, you lose out on $100 with the obese individual. Paying by the Lb, you could break even either way.

Again, this is for little hop flight planes, not your big jumbo jet passenger airliners...put it in a little perspective.

slkehl

People of any size are bringing 100+lbs in their carry on to put in the overhead bin so that they don't have to pay the overweight baggage fees.

This is me, 100%

michellelemorgan

I think the only people who would be offended by this are the overly obese. If they only charged by the pound and nothing else, people would get cheap flights.

Exactly. I'm flying air somoa!

prdavies1949

I haven't read the whole thread so someone else may have pointed this out. This story broke on April 1st and was the picked up by some main media outlets including the BBC. From there everyone has been reporting it. But if you google Samoa Air you find that the airline went bust in 2003. Maybe, just maybe this is an April fools joke!!!!!!!