Criticism vs Shaming

luckyjuls

I think she gives the credit to her mom..her dying words were for her to lose weight. TBH I dont think the professors comments even need to be in the story. Yeah he was an asshat for saying it but he has the right to say what he wants. Just because someone is a total asshat doesnt mean you have to cont to eat yourself into oblivion. If anything she shoudl get all the credit not the teacher not the mom. She is the one who was fat and fixed it. She took responsibility for her life the reasons behind it matter not.

I guess he technically has the right to say whatever he wants but that would not fly in corporate or retail America. Yea, you could say it out loud, but would you really take the risk of losing your livelihood to voice your holier than thou opinion? Is that worth anyone's while? Just to exercise your right to freedom of speech, you would let this words come out of your mouth for no other reason than to humiliate someone? Yea I guess he could do that if he wanted. Just makes me question his character. What kind of sadism is that? To walk around a hallway insulting people in your place of work with impressionable young minds is beyond disgusting.

I hope your children are never subject to that out right cruelty for whatever character trait they possess that is deemed gross, unsavory, uncool or worthy of commenting on. As someone who was overweight (and I get it, you're overweight and you don't wish that on anyone) as a young kid, I was maybe fifteen pounds overweight at the time and had a boy saunter up to me after a fire drill and SCREAM into my ear, "fatty". I'll never forget it. It was just so cruel. So pointless.

No, I didn't eat my feelings after this boy called me fat. Not everyone eats their feelings. Some people do. Some people just lose the weight. Some people feel unworthy, wrong, horrible for their teen years. Sometimes it goes on into adult years. Me, I just felt ugly and wrong for most of my teen years. I hope your kids never have to feel this way. I see that you are promoting good eating habits for them. But they could hear things for other faults besides being fat because kids(and clearly, adults) are cruel. And trust me, if that happens, you're not going to go around saying, "well, kids, freedom of speech!" You're going to feel something other than that, trust me. Maybe mama bear mode. Maybe not, but you're going to at some point go, WTF, this person does not have the right to make my child feel like crap for their own pleasure. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.

Finally, I totally agree that the subject of the article should get all the credit. She took matters into her own hands barring anything anyone else said. She did it for herself. In a perfect world, this would happen all the time.

2FatToRun

Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.

Everyone does not have the right to say what they want when they want.
Most jobs do not allow people to say whatever they want to their patients, students, employees, customers, clients etc and could very easily face consequences such as lawsuits and professional discipline for doing so.
But, hey, if you want to say what you want to people in your personal life, go right ahead if that's working for you:flowerforyou:
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Just because you may get fired doesnt take your right to say it away. May deter you from saying it out loud at that moment in the setting to avoid the consequences but you are still very well in your right to state your opinion. Thats why I stated earlier it sucks for teachers because their hands are tied in many ways because they need that crappy paycheck to survive and if they say the wrong thing they will get in trouble.

dayone987

Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.

Everyone does not have the right to say what they want when they want.
Most jobs do not allow people to say whatever they want to their patients, students, employees, customers, clients etc and could very easily face consequences such as lawsuits and professional discipline for doing so.
But, hey, if you want to say what you want to people in your personal life, go right ahead if that's working for you:flowerforyou:

Just because you may get fired doesnt take your right to say it away. May deter you from saying it out loud at that moment in the setting to avoid the consequences but you are still very well in your right to state your opinion. Thats why I stated earlier it sucks for teachers because their hands are tied in many ways because they need that crappy paycheck to survive and if they say the wrong thing they will get in trouble.
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So you'd be okay with a teacher making fun of your kid in front of the whole class when they get a low mark on a test? Maybe that would make them study harder?

fitfreakymom

I'm on the fence about the calling fat people fat statement. But then again, I hate when people call me too skinny, or I should go eat a cheeseburger...but somehow the latter is perfectly acceptable. I think it someone asks me, straight up "Hey do you think I'm overweight/or getting fat" then yes, I will tell them and provide support and ways to improve. But I can't just call someone out for that, I feel that is rude and not my place to say.

same

2FatToRun

Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.

Everyone does not have the right to say what they want when they want.
Most jobs do not allow people to say whatever they want to their patients, students, employees, customers, clients etc and could very easily face consequences such as lawsuits and professional discipline for doing so.
But, hey, if you want to say what you want to people in your personal life, go right ahead if that's working for you:flowerforyou:

Just because you may get fired doesnt take your right to say it away. May deter you from saying it out loud at that moment in the setting to avoid the consequences but you are still very well in your right to state your opinion. Thats why I stated earlier it sucks for teachers because their hands are tied in many ways because they need that crappy paycheck to survive and if they say the wrong thing they will get in trouble.

So you'd be okay with a teacher making fun of your kid in front of the whole class when they get a low mark on a test? Maybe that would make them study harder?
[/quote]

My son was born with Unilateral Schizencephaly and has a shunt in his head since birth. They took him 2 weeks early because his head was too big to birth. Until recently when the state of fl stopped having e.s.e. classes (which when I was in school was the slow kids classes) he was in them. I knew all too well because of his head and the classes he was going to be ridiculed and so forth. I did not coddle him one bit! I told him kids were going to make fun of him and call him water tank head and big head or retard. For a while I even called him bubble head. I know everyone will think this is absolutely horrible. That little boy is 12 years old now and yes there were times he was teased and called those names esp retard for the e.s.e. classes, but I would ask him when he would tell me about it if he was okay. He would shrug his shoulders and tell me something about that kid like he could run faster than him/her or he/she picked their nose and wiped it under the lunch table LOL Thats what happens when you teach a child realistic expectations and dont coddle them and wait for them to break. You reinforce their foundation in hopes that when they are shaken by life they are strong enough to remain tall and strong. So yeah call my kid retard all you want..he is waiting for it....wont flinch or miss a beat because he can see all your flaws too. No one is perfect but everyone can be better. So to answer your ?....It wouldnt bother me none but due to the situation his teachers were specially trained for children with learning disabilities so IDK it never happened. I teach my kids that no matter what ANYONE says to you, it is up to you how you react and that most the time all ppl want from you is that reaction. Just because someone says something with the intention to hurt your feelings or be mean doesnt mean you have to be stupid enough to fall into their trap. He is an arrogant lil son of a gun too. And yes that is my fault lol I am proud he doesnt rely on others opinions to mold him and has made his own identity.

UKMarjie

I would say bullying and shaming aren't great but when someone told me that the way I bit my nails and skin on my fingers looked like leprosy it made me take another look and stop biting them.

I wish people in a position appropriate to discussing your health wouldn't pull their punches – although in the case of children discuss it with parent or guardian and make comments age appropriate. A lot of health issues are weight related and that should be a top priority in treating things (e.g.: my plantar fasciitis could have been healed a lot sooner by dropping weight and not running until I was thinner - although some runners are lucky to not get PF regardless of weight). We need to learn that quick solutions aren't always the 'true' or best solution - I could take pain pills and get arch support but without dealing with the cause of the injury - my weight- I would never find permanent relief.

petersonabt

I wish someone would have been out right blunt with me. it wasn't till my doctor told me that it was okay I wasn't able to hold anything down durning my pregnancy because I had enough fat to feed my baby and it would actually do me some good that I realized what I had truly done to myself.

the truth hurts, but it changed my life. and I have been much happier and healthier. for not only myself but my family also. HOWEVER with all that sad.

Kids are WAY different. I was a grown women. not a child. I feel that children shouldn't be bullied or "told how it is" or whatever. They are growing and changing so much mentally I do not feel it is right to belittle a child about their weight, appearance or anything of the sort. For the most part it is not the childs fault they are over weight it is the parents.

2FatToRun

I wish someone would have been out right blunt with me. it wasn't till my doctor told me that it was okay I wasn't able to hold anything down durning my pregnancy because I had enough fat to feed my baby and it would actually do me some good that I realized what I had truly done to myself.

the truth hurts, but it changed my life. and I have been much happier and healthier. for not only myself but my family also. HOWEVER with all that sad.

Kids are WAY different. I was a grown women. not a child. I feel that children shouldn't be bullied or "told how it is" or whatever. They are growing and changing so much mentally I do not feel it is right to belittle a child about their weight, appearance or anything of the sort. For the most part it is not the childs fault they are over weight it is the parents.

Yes...I am still a little crappity towards my family and old man fo rnot saying anything to me lol I mean I knew I had gained a few lbs but FFS not a whole entire person HA! Best I can figure is they were scared to say anything I might beat them up lol when you are an arrogant person like myself who never does any wrong and is always the hottest thing going on it is hard to see just how fat you are lol I am so disgusted with the whole thing I cant wait to get back to fit

CrazyTrackLady

I think we'd have less childhood obesity IF: 1) parents opened their eyes and realized when their kids are fat and need to lose weight and be willing to say NO to the kid and start making better food purchases, send the kids out to play and maybe cook more at home and 2) pediatricians are more willing to tell those parents they really are being neglectful by allowing their child to gain that much weight.

And I also believe that parents should be better role models for their kids as well. It's hard to tell a child to lose weight when the parent is morbidly obese. And, it's never, ever a good thing to say "Oh look at that chubby toddler -- isn't he/she cute?" NO, not if they're so fat they are having trouble breathing at night. NO 4year old should weigh 90 lbs, ever.

persistantone

Personally, in our culture in the USA, I think it's rude to even comment on another person's body.

Shaming is NEVER ok. Shame is an attack upon the person's inner self...the "who" of who they are. A body is NOT all there is about a person. I was shamed so often as a child that it took me many years to believe I was even worth being alive.

Criticism can be shaming depending on the words chosen. But it can also be gentle and kind. Which do you like to recieve?

Having a private talk with a friend or relative about an unhealthy habit is not the same thing. You tell them your concerns and offer help and support but you ultimately accept what they decide to do. But, anyone who has been through any educational system, teachers don't necessarily care, and that's life.

Not everyone is as thin skinned as you or needs coddling. I prefer that someone be honest and not worry about hurting my feelings. You are only responsible for what you say...not for how the person comprehends it. How I understand and deal with a person saying I am grossly fat is probably way different than you would take it. I know it is a fact but in the same aspect I know who I am and what I am capable of so those words dont hurt me therefore I dont take them as hurtful but for what they are..truthful.

I'm pretty thin-skinned, and I agree with this. Our feelings are our responsibility. The world doesn't owe anyone anything. People don't have to be nice to you or make sure to say the right things at the right time in the right way. It took me a while to realize that, and I'm glad that I finally did.

"Fat" is a neutral word. We give it the emotional baggage. To be fat is a fact, just like being skinny or muscular. It is what it is. If you don't like, do all that you can to change it instead of feeling sad that it's being pointed out in derogatory way. Yeah, it sucks that the teacher did that, especially when you think about the power dynamics at play there, but people can be ***holes. It's life. And, to me, it's okay if feelings get hurt, you can get over them if you choose. It sounds really cliche, but you can't really control how people are going to treat you. You can only control how you'll respond to their treatment.

If I was in that student's place, and my teacher said that and my fellow students laughed at me, I'd feel like crap. I would. But, I'd probably also think, he's an ***, he's probably got some issues to work out if he's going to treat a student in such a way, totally unprofessional. But, am I actually obese? If so, why I am choosing to live this way? Do I like being obese? If I did, my feelings wouldn't have been hurt.

But still, the teacher's comment wasn't helpful at all. He acted childishly. If he did care, he probably would have talked to her after class, privately. That's how most people conduct themselves when they care.

persistantone

For the most part it is not the childs fault they are over weight it is the parents.

Totally agree here. It's the parents that supply the food, condone the inactivity, and make the excuses. Generally, those same parents also don't take care of their own health.

persistantone

My son was born with Unilateral Schizencephaly and has a shunt in his head since birth. They took him 2 weeks early because his head was too big to birth. Until recently when the state of fl stopped having e.s.e. classes (which when I was in school was the slow kids classes) he was in them. I knew all too well because of his head and the classes he was going to be ridiculed and so forth. I did not coddle him one bit! I told him kids were going to make fun of him and call him water tank head and big head or retard. For a while I even called him bubble head. I know everyone will think this is absolutely horrible. That little boy is 12 years old now and yes there were times he was teased and called those names esp retard for the e.s.e. classes, but I would ask him when he would tell me about it if he was okay. He would shrug his shoulders and tell me something about that kid like he could run faster than him/her or he/she picked their nose and wiped it under the lunch table LOL Thats what happens when you teach a child realistic expectations and dont coddle them and wait for them to break. You reinforce their foundation in hopes that when they are shaken by life they are strong enough to remain tall and strong. So yeah call my kid retard all you want..he is waiting for it....wont flinch or miss a beat because he can see all your flaws too. No one is perfect but everyone can be better. So to answer your ?....It wouldnt bother me none but due to the situation his teachers were specially trained for children with learning disabilities so IDK it never happened. I teach my kids that no matter what ANYONE says to you, it is up to you how you react and that most the time all ppl want from you is that reaction. Just because someone says something with the intention to hurt your feelings or be mean doesnt mean you have to be stupid enough to fall into their trap. He is an arrogant lil son of a gun too. And yes that is my fault lol I am proud he doesnt rely on others opinions to mold him and has made his own identity.

Thank you!!

aliann30

I'm really completely shocked at some of the comments I've read. We're not talking about a teacher who pulled this student aside and said "hey have you talked to a doctor about this? I'm really concerned about your weight"...we're talking about a teacher calling her a name in the hallway, in front of other students who laughed. And people are applauding this?

Like...I REALLY don't get how you can think name-calling is effective. I mean people on here who have a substantial amount of weight to lose themselves are applauding this... So basically every name you'd call a fat person, you also think of yourself? Do you honestly bash yourself like that when you're standing in front of the mirror? And that's working for you?


I agree that AS THE PARENT OF MY CHILD (no, no one else needs to be teaching my child this. I got it, don't worry. I don't need a world full of strangers thinking that it's their "public duty" to toughen up my child by whatever means they feel is appropriate.) I should prepare my child for the harsh reality of what the world will throw at them. I need to build them up in a way that name calling and other nonsense isn't going to crush them and they can just shake it off and move on.

I also get the thin-skinned thing - some people are really sensitive, including myself.

But I can't stand when others think "it's okay, all the sensitive people need to change and deal with it" but don't even think twice that there is also a problem with not being able to filter or control your own mouth. Everyone else should change, because you are just completely unable to shut your trap? You have your stuff so together that now it's time to "coach" everyone else and point out their failures?

I'm working on my sensitivity, you work on your mouth. We all become better people and everyone wins.

2FatToRun

I'm really completely shocked at some of the comments I've read. We're not talking about a teacher who pulled this student aside and said "hey have you talked to a doctor about this? I'm really concerned about your weight"...we're talking about a teacher calling her a name in the hallway, in front of other students who laughed. And people are applauding this?

Like...I REALLY don't get how you can think name-calling is effective. I mean people on here who have a substantial amount of weight to lose themselves are applauding this... So basically every name you'd call a fat person, you also think of yourself? Do you honestly bash yourself like that when you're standing in front of the mirror? And that's working for you?


I agree that AS THE PARENT OF MY CHILD (no, no one else needs to be teaching my child this. I got it, don't worry. I don't need a world full of strangers thinking that it's their "public duty" to toughen up my child by whatever means they feel is appropriate.) I should prepare my child for the harsh reality of what the world will throw at them. I need to build them up in a way that name calling and other nonsense isn't going to crush them and they can just shake it off and move on.

I also get the thin-skinned thing - some people are really sensitive, including myself.

But I can't stand when others think "it's okay, all the sensitive people need to change and deal with it" but don't even think twice that there is also a problem with not being able to filter or control your own mouth. Everyone else should change, because you are just completely unable to shut your trap? You have your stuff so together that now it's time to "coach" everyone else and point out their failures?

I'm working on my sensitivity, you work on your mouth. We all become better people and everyone wins.

LOL.....you are the perfect example of why ppl like me say what we say and stand behind it. You take words that have set meanings throw a bunch of emotions on them and expect everyone around you to be as emotional about them as you are. When I say something I am saying the words without any emotions added to them. Let me post a message from someone who messaged me like an hr ago.....

sender:Subject: criticism and shaming.
Hi 2. In your profile you called yourself a fat lazy slob. To me those words mean something extremely negative and derogatory. Perhaps we just have different understandings of those words. I'm very glad to know you have good self esteem.
Best regards,XXX

my response:Subject: Re: criticism and shaming.
This is how I see it.....AM I fat? YES AM I lazy? VERY lol Am I sloppy? Eh half and half depends how lazy I am being that day lol
Throw them all together on a good day I am a lazy fatty on a bad day I am a fat lazy slob lol To me I am using those words for their meaning and do not alter them with emotion. PPL often add emotions to words and it totally causes alot of misunderstandings. Words have set meanings and I try to use them in that context.

And PS if you are raising your child correctly noone else would have the need to correct them...food for thought

Penfoldsplace

I think shaming is totally counter productive. If a teacher had shamed me in front of everyone it would have made me feel even worse than I already did and when I felt bad I turned to food. When other kids gave me a hard time it didn't make me think oh "I must diet now" it just made me feel helpless and down. Once I was out of the negative school environment and surrounded myself with more positive people I was able to take control of my life.

aliann30

Thank you for your food for thought. No one has ever tried correcting my children, I was simply addressing what seemed to be a flow of idea heading in the direction that it's okay for random strangers to pick up the lesson-teaching that they assume isn't being handled at home by calling my child a name and believing that will save her from obesity.

I still don't understand how you can arrogantly walk around throwing words out, smirking because they hold no emotional baggage for you. Do you have a freedom of speech? Sure you do. Do you have the right to think however you want about people? Of course.

But you give yourself this license to walk around hurling words at people as if everyone desperately needs your input.

You seriously don't see a difference in the effectiveness and just common decency to sit down and respectfully discuss your concerns with someone vs. throwing a "fat***" out there and walking by with a self-satisfied smile on your face?

I don't know...lol. I'm at a loss for words. :noway:

Penfoldsplace

Thank you for your food for thought. No one has ever tried correcting my children, I was simply addressing what seemed to be a flow of idea heading in the direction that it's okay for random strangers to pick up the lesson-teaching that they assume isn't being handled at home by calling my child a name and believing that will save her from obesity.

I still don't understand how you can arrogantly walk around throwing words out, smirking because they hold no emotional baggage for you. Do you have a freedom of speech? Sure you do. Do you have the right to think however you want about people? Of course.

But you give yourself this license to walk around hurling words at people as if everyone desperately needs your input.

You seriously don't see a difference in the effectiveness and just common decency to sit down and respectfully discuss your concerns with someone vs. throwing a "fat***" out there and walking by with a self-satisfied smile on your face?

I don't know...lol. I'm at a loss for words. :noway:

i have never understood that mentality either. Do people think they are doing some sort of good, or do they just enjoy making people feel awful about themselves. I can only talk from personal experience but I am pretty sure the majority of overweight people know they are. They don't need people making comments. It also bothers me that some people think that being fat is so awful that it gives them the right to shame and belittle. There are worse things in life to be than overweight.

I love this Jk Rowling quote “Is 'fat' really the worst thing a human being can be? Is 'fat' worse than 'vindictive', 'jealous', 'shallow', 'vain', 'boring' or 'cruel'? Not to me.”

2FatToRun

Thank you for your food for thought. No one has ever tried correcting my children, I was simply addressing what seemed to be a flow of idea heading in the direction that it's okay for random strangers to pick up the lesson-teaching that they assume isn't being handled at home by calling my child a name and believing that will save her from obesity.

I still don't understand how you can arrogantly walk around throwing words out, smirking because they hold no emotional baggage for you. Do you have a freedom of speech? Sure you do. Do you have the right to think however you want about people? Of course.

But you give yourself this license to walk around hurling words at people as if everyone desperately needs your input.

You seriously don't see a difference in the effectiveness and just common decency to sit down and respectfully discuss your concerns with someone vs. throwing a "fat***" out there and walking by with a self-satisfied smile on your face?

I don't know...lol. I'm at a loss for words. :noway:

You are assuming I just go around calling ppl fat lol I do not. I could careless if the ppl I do not know around me are fat. But you bet your sweet buttocks if that person is pulling out a food stamp card and has 2 carts full of crap food you will def hear...........SERIOUSLY?!?!?Thats BS........coming straight out my mouth lol I dont go around just calling ppl fat for the simple point that I dont know enough info about them. The professor called her precious, yes a fat reference.....is he an asshat for it? YES Does he have the right to say it ....YES Should he be persecuted for his independent opinion? NO Is making the comment he made towards her a lesson in life? Depends how she took it. Was he trying to save her from her obesity? Only she can do that.

It is not my job nor my concern to sit someone down and discuss their fat issues. But for you to assume I go around smiling and calling ppl fat is ludicrous. If you dont want the chance of someone calling you fat dont be fat. If you choose to be fat then dont get your panties all in a wad because your poor little feelings get hurt because someone (whether they are right or wrong) made an observation and commented about it. Many ppl have posted that it took someone telling them how fat they are because they didnt realize it. This wasnt a child this was a grown woman. BTW even if I did go around calling ppl fat for no reason without knowing why they are fat (which would be stupid) I have that right. How I speak to ppl is not your decision and unless you know me personally you will take everything I say out of context.

lwswann

There is nothing worse than someone else stating the obvious. I think it could be counter-productive. We are all aware of our flaws and when we are ready to change them, we will, ourselves.

2FatToRun

There is nothing worse than someone else stating the obvious. I think it could be counter-productive. We are all aware of our flaws and when we are ready to change them, we will, ourselves.

Not everyone is aware. Read through the posts many needed to be told.