Should we runners not run?

michellelemorgan

January of 2012 I began aerial dancing and strength training. I built up a lot of muscle during that time but it was difficult to see because of the ten or fifteen pounds of fat over the top of it. So, in May I started running. I was running 5 or 6 miles a day and the fat on top of all the muscle just fell off and within just a few weeks I was left with a sleek, muscular physique. I was really proud of it and I weighed in at the finish around 110-115 pounds. I don't weigh myself so that's all guessing. Earlier this week I hurt myself running and now I'm off of running for a few days to heal and while researching my injury I came across this article...

http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/5343/why-women-should-not-run/

and I'm wondering what you all think. Typically, I feel strength training and running go hand in hand toward the direction of a better healthier body, but I'm open to opinion and am interested in hearing a few educated responses.

CALake

Generally I dismiss anything that completely rules something out.

jzammetti

Generally I dismiss anything that completely rules something out.

me too. Especially if you llove running. Plus you are weight training too - which is the best of both worlds in my opinion.

michellelemorgan

Here's the actual article for those of you who are interested. There is a link to the article in the original topic post.
"I’m not sympathetic.
When I look at the fat guy in the gym wasting his time doing forearm curls to lose weight, I feel no sympathy. When a big tough meathead gets stapled to the bench by 365 pounds—after trying and failing with 315—I don’t feel any sympathetic pangs there, either. Even when I see a girl spend a half hour bouncing back and forth between the yes-no machines—the adductor and abductor units—only to have trouble walking the next day, I can’t muster even an iota of pathos.
Nobody told these people to do these things.
Then, however, I watch my friend Jessica running on the treadmill—day after day, year after year—like a madwoman, and going nowhere. Her body seems to get softer with every mile, and the softer she gets, the more she runs. For her, I feel sympathy, because the world has convinced her that running is the way to stay “slim and toned.”
There’s a Jessica in every gym. Spotting them is easy. They’re the women who run for an hour or more every day on the treadmill, setting new distance and/or time goals every week and month. Maybe they’re just interested in their treadmill workouts, maybe they’re training for their fifth fund-raising marathon, or maybe they’re even competing against runners in Finland via some Nike device. Doesn’t matter to me, because years of seeing my friend on the treadmill has exposed the results, which I’m not going to sugarcoat:
She’s still fat. Actually, she’s gotten fatter.
I’ve tried to rescue her from the clutches of cardio in the past, but my efforts didn’t work until a month ago, when she called to tell me that a blood test had confirmed her doctor’s suspicion: She had hypothyroidism, meaning her body no longer made enough thyroid hormone.
Her metabolism had slowed to a snail’s pace, and the fat was accumulating. This was her body rebelling. When Jessica asked for my advice, I told her to do two things: To schedule a second test for two weeks later, and to stop all the goddamned running until then.
I’m not here to pick on women or make fun of them. There are men out there who do the same thing, thinking cardio will wipe away the effects of their regular weekend beer binges. It’s more of a problem with women, though, and I’m targeting them for three very good reasons:
1. They’re often intensely recruited for fund-raisers like Team-In-Training, lured by the promises of slim, trim bodies and good health resulting from the months of cardio training leading to marathons—in addition to doing something for charity.
2. Some physique coaches prescribe 20-plus hours per week of pre-contest cardio for women, which essentially amounts to a part-time job.
3. Steady-state activities like this devastate the female metabolism. This happens with men, too, but in different ways.

I hate a lot of things about the fitness industry, but over-prescribed cardio would have to be at the very top of my list. I’m not talking about walking here, nor am I referring to appropriate HIIT cardio. This is about running, cycling, stair-climbing, or elliptical cardio done for hours at or above 65 percent of your max heart rate. The anaerobic threshold factors into this, obviously, but I’m painting gym cardio in very broad strokes here so everyone will understand what I’m railing against.
Trashing steady-state cardio isn’t exactly a novel idea, and the better physique gurus figured at least a portion of this out years ago, when they started applying the no-steady-state-cardio rule to contest preparation. They failed, however, to point out the most detrimental effect of this type of training—one that applies specifically to women:
Studies—both clinical and observational—make a compelling case that too much cardio can impair the production of the thyroid hormone T3, its effectiveness and metabolism[1-11], particularly when accompanied by caloric restriction, an all too common practice. This is why many first or second-time figure and bikini competitors explode in weight when they return to their normal diets, and it’s why the Jessicas of the world can run for hours every week with negative results.
T3 is the body’s preeminent regulator of metabolism, by the way it throttles the efficiency of cells[12-19]. It also acts in various ways to increase heat production[20-21]. As I pointed out in previous articles, this is one reason why using static equations to perform calories-in, calories-out weight loss calculations doesn’t work.
When T3 levels are normal, the body burns enough energy to stay warm, and muscles function at moderate efficiency. When there’s too much thyroid hormone (hyperthyroidism), the body goes into a state where weight gain is almost impossible. Too little T3 (hypothyroidism), and the body accumulates body fat with ease, almost regardless of physical activity level. Women inadvertently put themselves into a hypothyroid condition when they perform so much steady-state cardio.
In the quest to lose body fat, T3 levels can offer both success and miserable failure because of the way it influences other fat-regulating hormones[22-31]. Women additionally get all the other negative effects of this, which I’ll cover below. Don’t be surprised here. This is a simple, sensible adaptation of a body that’s equipped to bear the full brunt of reproduction.
Think about it this way: Your body is a responsive, adaptive machine that has evolved for survival. If you’re running on a regular basis, your body senses this excessive energy expenditure, and adjusts to compensate. Remember, no matter which way we hope the body works, its endgame is always survival. If you waste energy running, your body will react by slowing your metabolism to conserve energy. Decreasing energy output is biologically savvy for your body. Your body wants to survive longer while you do what it views as a stressful, useless activity. Decreasing T3 production increases efficiency and adjusts your metabolism to preserve energy immediately.

Nothing exemplifies this increasing efficiency better than the way the body starts burning fuel. Training consistently at 65 percent or more of your max heart rate adapts your body to save as much body fat as possible. After regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat the way they once did during moderate-intensity activities[32-33]. Energy from body fat stores also decreases by 30 percent[34-35]. To this end, your body sets into motion a series of reactions that make it difficult for muscle to burn fat at all[36-41]. Instead of burning body fat, your body takes extraordinary measures to retain it.
Still believe cardio is the fast track to fat loss?
That’s not all. You can still lose muscle mass. Too much steady-state cardio actually triggers the loss of muscle[42-45]. This seems to be a twofold mechanism, with heightened and sustained cortisol levels triggering muscle loss[46-56], which upregulates myostatin, a potent destroyer of muscle tissue[57]. Say goodbye to bone density, too, because it declines with that decreasing muscle mass and strength[58-64].
And long term health? Out the window, as well. Your percentage of muscle mass is an independent indicator of health[65]. You’ll lose muscle, lose bone, and lose health. Awesome, right?
When sewn together, these phenomena coordinate a symphony of fat gain for most female competitors after figure contests. After a month—or three—of 20-plus hours of cardio per week, fat burning hits astonishing lows, and fat cells await an onslaught of calories to store[66-72]. The worst thing imaginable in this state would be to eat whatever you wanted, whenever you wanted. The combination of elevated insulin and cortisol would make you fat, and it would also create new fat cells so you could become even fatter[73-80].
I won’t name names, but I’ve seen amazing displays of gluttony from some small, trim women. Entire pizzas disappear, leaving only the flotsam of toppings that fell during the feeding frenzy. Appetizers, meals, cocktails and desserts—4000 calories worth—vanish at the Cheesecake Factory. There are no leftovers, and there are no crumbs. Some women catch this in time and stop the devastation, but others quickly swell, realizing that this supposed off-season look has become their every-season look.
And guess what they do to fix it? Double sessions of cardio.
This “cardio craze” is a form of insanity, and it’s on my hit list. I’m determined to kill it. There are better ways to lose fat, and there are better ways to look good. Your bikini body is not at the end of a marathon, and you won’t find it on a treadmill. In fact, it’s quite the opposite if you’re using steady-state cardio to get there. The show may be over, and the finish line crossed, but the damage to your metabolism has just begun.
Don’t want to stop running? Fine. Then stop complaining about how the fat won’t come off your hips, thighs, and *kitten*. You’re keeping it there.
And as for Jessica, my friend whose dilemma sparked this article? She took my suggestion and cut out the cardio. Two weeks later, her T3 count was normal. Go figure.
References (click to expand)"

andrewjuu

Generally I dismiss anything that completely rules something out.

so IOW you completely rule it out?

ValerieMomof2

Okay. My take on all of this. There are lots of people who will say that cardio is not the way to go. Is it the best way to lose weight? No. Is it the only thing you should do? No. However, there are some people that do it for reasons other than weight loss or fundraising (like what was suggested in the article). There ARE benefits to cardiorespiratory activities. For some of us, it's about more than weight loss. It's about helping the heart, decreasing risk of diabetes, reduced stress, decreasing blood pressure...some of us have a horrible family history and are trying to be proactive. Are there other ways to do this? Sure, but it drives me nuts when people say to not do it, the only reason we do it is to eat more/binge, it's a waste of time.....
I run (along with other things) and I do it mainly for the cardiovascular benefits. I do it because I have an awesome running group and enjoy my time with them. I do it because I enjoy it. Period. People shouldn't automatically assume WHY people run and just be happy they are doing something that benefits them. So yeah, I disregard articles like this. Do what you like and don't look back. Open your mind and try other things as well, but NEVER will I tell someone to stop because there's something better for them when they are doing something that does have benefits

michellelemorgan

Thanks for the responses guys! I'd love to hear from a few people who choose not to incorporate running into their workouts.

singingflutelady

it's talking about running 20 plus hours a week so running a little is ok LOL

LoosingMyLast15

Don’t want to stop running? Fine. Then stop complaining about how the fat won’t come off your hips, thighs, and *kitten*. You’re keeping it there.

i beg to differ on this statement. i went from having a big wide butt and not just big and wide but high too (so high my mother said she could rest her teacup on it), to one that is more "normal". the extra giggle in my thighs are gone and my hips are smaller. all because of running.

i'll keep running.

So_Much_Fab

While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:

ejwme

weightloss happens in the kitchen. fitness happens in the gym.

Long distance running does not cause thyroid conditions. See: almost every serious marathoner ever. Some marathon runners may acquire thyroid issues. Just like some non-marathon runners acquire thyroid issues. In fact, I'd wager more non-marathoners acquire thyroid issues than marathoners.... OMG, NOT running a marathon will give you a thyroid condition! Yeah, no.

When you run long distances, anything over 20 miles in a week, you need to treat it very seriously - you need to pay attention to your diet, your shoes, your hydration, your strength training, your flexibility training. "Carbohydrate loading" is typically the reason people gain weight while running - because they thought their 45 minute run entitled them to a giant plate of pasta instead of the two pieces of fruit it was really calorically worth. Muscle loss happens when you don't strength train regardless if you run or not, and a lot of people think strength time and cardio time are interchangeable in the gym, when they are not.

If you're running less than 20 miles in a week, it really doesn't matter what you do so long as you stay injury free, you're likely not going to hurt yourself running "too much" if you've worked up to it. People who get heart or other serious medical problems actually from running are typically in the 100 miles a week plus category - they're professional runners, who make money by running farther, faster, and sacrifice health for their jobs. Much like the desk jockeys sacrifice their health for their jobs.

You like running? Keep it up. Learn from your body, eat, drink and train responsibly, and have fun. But don't pay too much attention to people who claim that a passtime healthy human beings have enjoyed since we started walking upright is "dangerous", especially if they claim it's only dangerous for people with vaginas.

llkilgore

I love running and have no intention of stopping, but I have proven to my own satisfaction that running isn't enough - at least for me. While I didn't gain weight when I slacked off on strength training as I ramped up my running time, I did gain a muffin top. And more distressing, I lost a lot of strength. What finally knocked some sense into me was the realization that I was getting progressively less steady on my feet as I ran. After 2 falls in as many weeks I cut back on my running time and began looking around for a good strength training program I could do at home.

michellelemorgan

weightloss happens in the kitchen. fitness happens in the gym.

Long distance running does not cause thyroid conditions. See: almost every serious marathoner ever. Some marathon runners may acquire thyroid issues. Just like some non-marathon runners acquire thyroid issues. In fact, I'd wager more non-marathoners acquire thyroid issues than marathoners.... OMG, NOT running a marathon will give you a thyroid condition! Yeah, no.

When you run long distances, anything over 20 miles in a week, you need to treat it very seriously - you need to pay attention to your diet, your shoes, your hydration, your strength training, your flexibility training. "Carbohydrate loading" is typically the reason people gain weight while running - because they thought their 45 minute run entitled them to a giant plate of pasta instead of the two pieces of fruit it was really calorically worth. Muscle loss happens when you don't strength train regardless if you run or not, and a lot of people think strength time and cardio time are interchangeable in the gym, when they are not.

If you're running less than 20 miles in a week, it really doesn't matter what you do so long as you stay injury free, you're likely not going to hurt yourself running "too much" if you've worked up to it. People who get heart or other serious medical problems actually from running are typically in the 100 miles a week plus category - they're professional runners, who make money by running farther, faster, and sacrifice health for their jobs. Much like the desk jockeys sacrifice their health for their jobs.

You like running? Keep it up. Learn from your body, eat, drink and train responsibly, and have fun. But don't pay too much attention to people who claim that a passtime healthy human beings have enjoyed since we started walking upright is "dangerous", especially if they claim it's only dangerous for people with vaginas.

This is typically the direction that I lean. I run 30-35 miles a week, strength train and eat a healthy diet. In May I'll begin training for a half-marathon in October, but I have heard a few things out there about running being too time consuming and not being as effective exercise as we think and when speaking to him about running a physician mentioned to my husband recently that he sees a lot of people that are "running themselves into the ground". So I thought I'd bring it up for discussion here to see what results.

michellelemorgan

I love running and have no intention of stopping, but I have proven to my own satisfaction that running isn't enough - at least for me. While I didn't gain weight when I slacked off on strength training as I ramped up my running time, I did gain a muffin top. And more distressing, I lost a lot of strength. What finally knocked some sense into me was the realization that I was getting progressively less steady on my feet as I ran. After 2 falls in as many weeks I cut back on my running time and began looking around for a good strength training program I could do at home.

What sort of programs are you doing at home?

llkilgore

...a physician mentioned to my husband recently that he sees a lot of people that are "running themselves into the ground". So I thought I'd bring it up for discussion here to see what results.

Yep, that was quite literally what I was doing. I've reformed.

meredith1123

Do not kid like this. if you love running, keep doing it.
there are some folks that tend to over do it, but I dont see a problem with getting out there two or three times a week and running a 5 to 10 k.


I cant imagine not having running in my life. I dont care what any article says. it's what works for me both physically and mentally and often times emotionally.

3dogsrunning

I think the idea of cardio is bad is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Is excessive amounts of cardio the best route for weight loss? No.
Are there issues pairing massive amounts cardio with low calorie intake? Yes.
Does this mean cardio should be abandoned altogether? Absolutely not.

The article is giving the classic example of someone thing to lose weight, cutting calories and upping cardio to huge levels for no other reason but to lose weight. You will frequently see people here advise those doing massive amounts of cardio to cut back unless they are training for something specific. You will also see people suggest strength training to help combat muscle loss.
It is also strongly suggested around here that those who do a lot of exercise for reasons like they are training for an event that they eat to fuel their body and to track calories.

There are other scenarios than the ones the author talks about. This is pretty extreme

ETA - to clarify - eat to fuel your body does not mean running means you can eat whatever you want. This is frequently why runners gain weight.

Mamalea32

I have a pulled hamstring, but i did not stop running. I just cut running in half and substitute cardio time on the elliptical. It is healing slow. I am not taking any anti inflammatories or pain relief. I just get nice and sweaty and i stretch it out extra everyday.

irishdancer1984

If you like running, stick with it. Train, stretch, recover, take care of your body in doing so. I feel as though every exercise/activity affects each body differently. I do a lot of cardio in the form of dance, spin, and elliptical workouts, but mainly to help strengthen my lungs (yay, asthma), not so much for weight loss. I lift weights and have seen positive body recomposition as a result. No two people prefer the same workouts nor will they agree on what's best.

Kinda irks me when people say "this" or "that" type of activity is bad.

run_way

interesting saving for later

wareagle8706

The overall point of what this article is trying to convey is women believe that in order to lose weight they MUST eat much fewer calories and they MUST run themselves silly and this is just false.

He's trying to say you can get faster, if not better results from HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes a day instead of running 5 days a week 60 minutes or more a day.

Is he saying it in the best way? Probably not.

He's just trying to get the point across that only running (and lots of it) is not the way to a sleek sculpted body. Now, will your lungs be happy? Sure thing. But the other muscles in your body? Nope.

ejwme

...a physician mentioned to my husband recently that he sees a lot of people that are "running themselves into the ground". So I thought I'd bring it up for discussion here to see what results.

Yep, that was quite literally what I was doing. I've reformed.

I totally did this too... but rather than change my miles, I changed my diet. I was eating too little to fuel my workouts. Upped the calories and felt like a million bucks. YMVMV, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

moonbaby12

Yes yes yes this right here!

weightloss happens in the kitchen. fitness happens in the gym.

Long distance running does not cause thyroid conditions. See: almost every serious marathoner ever. Some marathon runners may acquire thyroid issues. Just like some non-marathon runners acquire thyroid issues. In fact, I'd wager more non-marathoners acquire thyroid issues than marathoners.... OMG, NOT running a marathon will give you a thyroid condition! Yeah, no.

When you run long distances, anything over 20 miles in a week, you need to treat it very seriously - you need to pay attention to your diet, your shoes, your hydration, your strength training, your flexibility training. "Carbohydrate loading" is typically the reason people gain weight while running - because they thought their 45 minute run entitled them to a giant plate of pasta instead of the two pieces of fruit it was really calorically worth. Muscle loss happens when you don't strength train regardless if you run or not, and a lot of people think strength time and cardio time are interchangeable in the gym, when they are not.

If you're running less than 20 miles in a week, it really doesn't matter what you do so long as you stay injury free, you're likely not going to hurt yourself running "too much" if you've worked up to it. People who get heart or other serious medical problems actually from running are typically in the 100 miles a week plus category - they're professional runners, who make money by running farther, faster, and sacrifice health for their jobs. Much like the desk jockeys sacrifice their health for their jobs.

You like running? Keep it up. Learn from your body, eat, drink and train responsibly, and have fun. But don't pay too much attention to people who claim that a passtime healthy human beings have enjoyed since we started walking upright is "dangerous", especially if they claim it's only dangerous for people with vaginas.

MercenaryNoetic26

How much do you love running? I love weight training way more, so I choose that over running. I dabbled in running, but I always found that if I wanted to develop one ability over the other, it was always strength and muscle. I preferred my body with more muscular curves. Running for me, sabotages hard earned muscle.

So if you're a runner, and passionate about it, keep running.

cbeckl

While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:

same here....I'll never stop running!

ami5000psu

I have a pulled hamstring, but i did not stop running. I just cut running in half and substitute cardio time on the elliptical. It is healing slow. I am not taking any anti inflammatories or pain relief. I just get nice and sweaty and i stretch it out extra everyday.

....it's healing slow because you won't let it have time to heal.

bcattoes

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

michellelemorgan

I have a pulled hamstring, but i did not stop running. I just cut running in half and substitute cardio time on the elliptical. It is healing slow. I am not taking any anti inflammatories or pain relief. I just get nice and sweaty and i stretch it out extra everyday.

....it's healing slow because you won't let it have time to heal.

Yeah. This totally stinks but while I'm injured I'm sitting out as well. I hurt myself on Saturday and haven't been able to run since. I've just been doing tons of upper body stuff and core work. I tried running today but only made it a quarter of a mile before the pain kicked in and I had to come home. It was sad to stop but I'd rather be better in a week or two than take longer to heal because I won't allow my body the time it needs.

I'm so glad there is interest on this topic!

3dogsrunning

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

If you scroll down a bit the OP copied and pasted it.

TL;DR
Excessive amounts of cardio and dieting can cause problems.

michellelemorgan

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

I copied and pasted the entire article just a comment or two down but here is the website again http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/category/training/

iWaffle

1. They’re often intensely recruited for fund-raisers like Team-In-Training, lured by the promises of slim, trim bodies and good health resulting from the months of cardio training leading to marathons—in addition to doing something for charity.

What's wrong with being in good health while doing something for charity? I don't know what the point of this note was.

2. Some physique coaches prescribe 20-plus hours per week of pre-contest cardio for women, which essentially amounts to a part-time job.

Bulls**t!!! If you can run a 10 minute mile then that would mean you're doing 120 miles a week of running. This is sheer sensationalism. I ran 150 miles last month and my total running time was just over 22 hours. That's for the entire month.

3. Steady-state activities like this devastate the female metabolism. This happens with men, too, but in different ways.

It makes your body more efficient by lowering your heart rate and improving your cardio vascular system. I wouldn't say this devastates your metabolism.


I get it. The writer in this piece wants you to stop doing nothing but cardio. This is true. I would add in strength exercise as well but there's no point in cutting out the running if you enjoy it. Can you get fat running? Yes, you can get fat doing anything or nothing. Eat back the calories you burn running but don't continue eating the same amount when you slow down your training. This is just common sense stuff that has nothing to do with the specific sport of running.

Is running making women into muffin top blobs? Why can't I find any pictures of women marathon runners with huge spare tires that the author here is referring to?