Should we runners not run?

Lupercalia

The overall point of what this article is trying to convey is women believe that in order to lose weight they MUST eat much fewer calories and they MUST run themselves silly and this is just false.

He's trying to say you can get faster, if not better results from HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes a day instead of running 5 days a week 60 minutes or more a day.

Is he saying it in the best way? Probably not.

He's just trying to get the point across that only running (and lots of it) is not the way to a sleek sculpted body. Now, will your lungs be happy? Sure thing. But the other muscles in your body? Nope.

^^THIS! I think this article has been taken out of context in this thread...or nobody actually read it. Keifer wasn't saying nobody should run, or women should not run. He's talking about women beating themselves into the ground with steady state cardio. Running was the example he used, but it could be any sort of steady state cardio.

He's also not saying DO NOT DO CARDIO. This article is making the case in favour of HIIT (high intensity interval training) over steady state cardio (running, stair master, elliptical, bike, etc) for fat loss.

momofJandA

While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:

agreed!

_DaniD_

That article is nothing but ramblings of a crazy person.

3dogsrunning

The overall point of what this article is trying to convey is women believe that in order to lose weight they MUST eat much fewer calories and they MUST run themselves silly and this is just false.

He's trying to say you can get faster, if not better results from HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes a day instead of running 5 days a week 60 minutes or more a day.

Is he saying it in the best way? Probably not.

He's just trying to get the point across that only running (and lots of it) is not the way to a sleek sculpted body. Now, will your lungs be happy? Sure thing. But the other muscles in your body? Nope.

^^THIS! I think this article has been taken out of context in this thread...or nobody actually read it. Keifer wasn't saying nobody should run, or women should not run. He's talking about women beating themselves into the ground with steady state cardio. Running was the example he used, but it could be any sort of steady state cardio.

He's also not saying DO NOT DO CARDIO. This article is making the case in favour of HIIT (high intensity interval training) over steady state cardio (running, stair master, elliptical, bike, etc) for fat loss.

I think part of the problem was the original post and title. When I did read the article I answered then went back to edit. After reading another reply I realized that the author wasnt saying don't do cardio, I implied that based on the topic.

I agree with all of the above.

bcattoes

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

I copied and pasted the entire article just a comment or two down but here is the website again http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/category/training/

The link times out and won't open (we have a filter that fails if a link takes too long to open). I saw the article. I didn't see where it said who wrote it.

Lupercalia

Is running making women into muffin top blobs? Why can't I find any pictures of women marathon runners with huge spare tires that the author here is referring to?

Here's an article by fitness author/trainer Rachel Cosgrove on what running did to her previously lean body:

http://members.rachelcosgrove.com/public/The_Final_Nail_in_the_Cardio_Coffin.cfm

Of course she didn't get a "huge spare tire", but she says her body did indeed change whilst she was training for her first Ironman.

"My body was soft, with no definition, and had definitely changed due to spending the majority of my training in the steady-state aerobic zone — the same "fat burning zone" many books and magazine still talk about.

I was in great shape as far as my endurance and cardiovascular system were concerned, but I had less noticeable muscle tone and didn't have the definition I was used to having in my abs and arms.

Put it this way: I didn't even want to wear a crop top at my race because I didn't have abs, to show. In fact, I felt like I had rolls for the first time ever! My body had started to look like that of a flabby endurance athlete.

I'd lost some muscle and looked soft and flabby, but I was still happy with my performance and thrilled that I accomplished my goal."

Cosgrove gets into the whys and hows of it in the article and goes on to discuss how she regained her previously lean body by first dropping all the steady state cardio and instead doing HIIT or circuit training styled workouts. She dropped the fat and returned to her lean state within about 8 weeks.

michellelemorgan

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

I copied and pasted the entire article just a comment or two down but here is the website again http://www.dangerouslyhardcore.com/category/training/

The link times out and won't open (we have a filter that fails if a link takes too long to open). I saw the article. I didn't see where it said who wrote it.

D.H. Kiefer

cwolfman13

I think all this article is saying is that far too much focus is placed on cardio in general and running specifically. I myself run...but I don't run steady state cardio for hours and hours every day...you do get to a point of diminishing returns and too much cardio also starts burning into your muscle. Look at marathon runners..are they lean and toned? Not really...they're fit, but they're also "skinny fat" just like pretty much every cardio bunny who neglects to do resistance training.

What I get from this is that people would get far more benefit if they did some combination of some cardio and some resistance training...and I would agree with that. Having been on this site for awhile, I'm always amazed and bewildered by the amount of cardio people do for no other purpose than a calorie burn. When you set fitness goals beyond that, things start falling into place much better in RE to your training.

PaulDJohnson

Take a look at this article in RW. It addresses the blog you are referring to. It sounds like the OP of the blog post didn't read the studies.

http://www.runnersworld.com/health/how-does-endurance-training-affect-your-thyroid-and-vice-versa

In short the likelihood that the blog post is accurate is very low. I can say that excessive ANYTHING tends to be bad. I remember getting ready for a marathon and just piling up one injury (impact or fatigue related) after another. I came to the conclusion that marathon running exacted too great a price for the sense of accomplishment.

Elzecat

weightloss happens in the kitchen. fitness happens in the gym.

Long distance running does not cause thyroid conditions. See: almost every serious marathoner ever. Some marathon runners may acquire thyroid issues. Just like some non-marathon runners acquire thyroid issues. In fact, I'd wager more non-marathoners acquire thyroid issues than marathoners.... OMG, NOT running a marathon will give you a thyroid condition! Yeah, no.

When you run long distances, anything over 20 miles in a week, you need to treat it very seriously - you need to pay attention to your diet, your shoes, your hydration, your strength training, your flexibility training. "Carbohydrate loading" is typically the reason people gain weight while running - because they thought their 45 minute run entitled them to a giant plate of pasta instead of the two pieces of fruit it was really calorically worth. Muscle loss happens when you don't strength train regardless if you run or not, and a lot of people think strength time and cardio time are interchangeable in the gym, when they are not.

If you're running less than 20 miles in a week, it really doesn't matter what you do so long as you stay injury free, you're likely not going to hurt yourself running "too much" if you've worked up to it. People who get heart or other serious medical problems actually from running are typically in the 100 miles a week plus category - they're professional runners, who make money by running farther, faster, and sacrifice health for their jobs. Much like the desk jockeys sacrifice their health for their jobs.

You like running? Keep it up. Learn from your body, eat, drink and train responsibly, and have fun. But don't pay too much attention to people who claim that a passtime healthy human beings have enjoyed since we started walking upright is "dangerous", especially if they claim it's only dangerous for people with vaginas.

Yep. To everything you wrote here, spot on!
They used to tell women not to run because their uteruses would be damaged.
Now we know better.

tubaman58

What she says

Okay. My take on all of this. There are lots of people who will say that cardio is not the way to go. Is it the best way to lose weight? No. Is it the only thing you should do? No. However, there are some people that do it for reasons other than weight loss or fundraising (like what was suggested in the article). There ARE benefits to cardiorespiratory activities. For some of us, it's about more than weight loss. It's about helping the heart, decreasing risk of diabetes, reduced stress, decreasing blood pressure...some of us have a horrible family history and are trying to be proactive. Are there other ways to do this? Sure, but it drives me nuts when people say to not do it, the only reason we do it is to eat more/binge, it's a waste of time.....
I run (along with other things) and I do it mainly for the cardiovascular benefits. I do it because I have an awesome running group and enjoy my time with them. I do it because I enjoy it. Period. People shouldn't automatically assume WHY people run and just be happy they are doing something that benefits them. So yeah, I disregard articles like this. Do what you like and don't look back. Open your mind and try other things as well, but NEVER will I tell someone to stop because there's something better for them when they are doing something that does have benefits

Lupercalia

I couldn't get the link to open. Who wrote the article?

While certainly running, like any exercise, can be overdone, running is good exercise. Our bodies are designed to run. We'd probably all be better off if we ran.

The author's name is Kiefer. It originally appeared on EliteFTS.com

Boogage

The only reason I don't like running is because I believe its not good for the joints. However I have friends who seem happy running and they must be getting results or surely they'd stop and try something else. If you enjoy it and it makes you feel good stick with it

PaulDJohnson

That being said...

I enjoy running far more than I have ever enjoyed any other form of exercise. So much so that I really don't view it AS exercise. In my experience the activity you enjoy is the one you will do and do consistently. As I get older I am trying to be more disciplined with regard to resistance training.

My new routine (I will post how it goes) is to run to the local gym, do a focused and intense resistance routine, run home. I can add miles to the run as I adapt but for now it is challenging and fun. I am fortunate to have a decent gym with 24 hour access near my home. I have another gym about 4 miles away which I will run to when I build up my endurance. That will let me integrate 8 mile daily runs with resistance training and get it all done before most people get out of bed. On days when I need to take it easy I can run to the nearer gym.

Sound crazy?

3dogsrunning

2. Some physique coaches prescribe 20-plus hours per week of pre-contest cardio for women, which essentially amounts to a part-time job.

Bulls**t!!! If you can run a 10 minute mile then that would mean you're doing 120 miles a week of running. This is sheer sensationalism. I ran 150 miles last month and my total running time was just over 22 hours. That's for the entire month.

3. Steady-state activities like this devastate the female metabolism. This happens with men, too, but in different ways.

It makes your body more efficient by lowering your heart rate and improving your cardio vascular system. I wouldn't say this devastates your metabolism.

I am not a fan of the article but I did just want to respond to that. At the end my coach did have me doing close to 20 hrs a week of cardio pre-contest, however it wasn't running. It was slow steady state cardio or shorter HIIT sessions (one in the morning and one later). I did joke it was a part time job. I also believe it had a negative impact on my metabolism. Hindsight is 20/20 and I warn girls looking to do these competitions about what plans their trainers will use.

runs4zen

While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:

Ditto. I will never stop running. Never.

michellelemorgan

Is running making women into muffin top blobs? Why can't I find any pictures of women marathon runners with huge spare tires that the author here is referring to?

Here's an article by fitness author/trainer Rachel Cosgrove on what running did to her previously lean body:

http://members.rachelcosgrove.com/public/The_Final_Nail_in_the_Cardio_Coffin.cfm

Of course she didn't get a "huge spare tire", but she says her body did indeed change whilst she was training for her first Ironman.

"My body was soft, with no definition, and had definitely changed due to spending the majority of my training in the steady-state aerobic zone — the same "fat burning zone" many books and magazine still talk about.

I was in great shape as far as my endurance and cardiovascular system were concerned, but I had less noticeable muscle tone and didn't have the definition I was used to having in my abs and arms.

Put it this way: I didn't even want to wear a crop top at my race because I didn't have abs, to show. In fact, I felt like I had rolls for the first time ever! My body had started to look like that of a flabby endurance athlete.

I'd lost some muscle and looked soft and flabby, but I was still happy with my performance and thrilled that I accomplished my goal."

Cosgrove gets into the whys and hows of it in the article and goes on to discuss how she regained her previously lean body by first dropping all the steady state cardio and instead doing HIIT or circuit training styled workouts. She dropped the fat and returned to her lean state within about 8 weeks.

That was a very informative article. I read the entire thing... her pictures weren't popping up though. piffle. Thanks for suggesting it!

PaulDJohnson

From Runner's world:

P.S. Okay, one final point in response to that blogger claiming that endurance exercise shuts down your thyroid. There was a study published last year in the journal Hormones, from the University of North Carolina, that compared the acute effects of high-intensity interval training to steady-state endurance training. The findings: 12 hours later, the T3 levels in the interval group were lower than in the steady-state or control groups.

toaster6

Exercising and a caloric deficit will not result in weight gain, ever whether you have a thyroid issue or not because that is not how the laws of thermodynamics work.

N4monsters

Following

Lupercalia

Is running making women into muffin top blobs? Why can't I find any pictures of women marathon runners with huge spare tires that the author here is referring to?

Here's an article by fitness author/trainer Rachel Cosgrove on what running did to her previously lean body:

http://members.rachelcosgrove.com/public/The_Final_Nail_in_the_Cardio_Coffin.cfm

Of course she didn't get a "huge spare tire", but she says her body did indeed change whilst she was training for her first Ironman.

"My body was soft, with no definition, and had definitely changed due to spending the majority of my training in the steady-state aerobic zone — the same "fat burning zone" many books and magazine still talk about.

I was in great shape as far as my endurance and cardiovascular system were concerned, but I had less noticeable muscle tone and didn't have the definition I was used to having in my abs and arms.

Put it this way: I didn't even want to wear a crop top at my race because I didn't have abs, to show. In fact, I felt like I had rolls for the first time ever! My body had started to look like that of a flabby endurance athlete.

I'd lost some muscle and looked soft and flabby, but I was still happy with my performance and thrilled that I accomplished my goal."

Cosgrove gets into the whys and hows of it in the article and goes on to discuss how she regained her previously lean body by first dropping all the steady state cardio and instead doing HIIT or circuit training styled workouts. She dropped the fat and returned to her lean state within about 8 weeks.

That was a very informative article. I read the entire thing... her pictures weren't popping up though. piffle. Thanks for suggesting it!

If you read it here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_final_nail_in_the_cardio_coffin

You can see the photos.

slipandsink

Don’t want to stop running? Fine. Then stop complaining about how the fat won’t come off your hips, thighs, and *kitten*. You’re keeping it there.

i beg to differ on this statement. i went from having a big wide butt and not just big and wide but high too (so high my mother said she could rest her teacup on it), to one that is more "normal". the extra giggle in my thighs are gone and my hips are smaller. all because of running.

i'll keep running.

Me too, well - kinda. I've started running three times a week and I've noticed in just about 6 weeks that I've started to develop my leg muscles a lot more than they normally are. My butt is looking more toned too!

norcal_yogi

While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:

same here....I'll never stop running!

all i know is once i stopped all my incessant cardio, i lost the last 8 pounds. seriously.

BamaBreezeNSaltAire

weightloss happens in the kitchen. fitness happens in the gym.

Long distance running does not cause thyroid conditions. See: almost every serious marathoner ever. Some marathon runners may acquire thyroid issues. Just like some non-marathon runners acquire thyroid issues. In fact, I'd wager more non-marathoners acquire thyroid issues than marathoners.... OMG, NOT running a marathon will give you a thyroid condition! Yeah, no.

When you run long distances, anything over 20 miles in a week, you need to treat it very seriously - you need to pay attention to your diet, your shoes, your hydration, your strength training, your flexibility training. "Carbohydrate loading" is typically the reason people gain weight while running - because they thought their 45 minute run entitled them to a giant plate of pasta instead of the two pieces of fruit it was really calorically worth. Muscle loss happens when you don't strength train regardless if you run or not, and a lot of people think strength time and cardio time are interchangeable in the gym, when they are not.

If you're running less than 20 miles in a week, it really doesn't matter what you do so long as you stay injury free, you're likely not going to hurt yourself running "too much" if you've worked up to it. People who get heart or other serious medical problems actually from running are typically in the 100 miles a week plus category - they're professional runners, who make money by running farther, faster, and sacrifice health for their jobs. Much like the desk jockeys sacrifice their health for their jobs.

You like running? Keep it up. Learn from your body, eat, drink and train responsibly, and have fun. But don't pay too much attention to people who claim that a passtime healthy human beings have enjoyed since we started walking upright is "dangerous", especially if they claim it's only dangerous for people with vaginas.

Well said.

jenniferrusso7393

I also find muscles where I had none when I start to run... It also helps to keep my genetically induced high blood pressure a little lower...

bcattoes

I think all this article is saying is that far too much focus is placed on cardio in general and running specifically. I myself run...but I don't run steady state cardio for hours and hours every day...you do get to a point of diminishing returns and too much cardio also starts burning into your muscle. Look at marathon runners..are they lean and toned? Not really...they're fit, but they're also "skinny fat" just like pretty much every cardio bunny who neglects to do resistance training.

I've never seen a marathon runner that was skinny fat. They are generally just skinny (low weight and low BF) unless they also do other training.

But I have a cousin who is a marathon runner. She also teaches gymnastics, is a personal trainer and a certified Insanity instructor. She is not skinny fat. I have yet to see anyone on MFP with pics that would rival hers for fitness.

Heaven71

For every srticle saying it's bad you can find 5 that say it's good. Don't read too much in to "Studies"

ejwme

iwaffle, I couldn't agree more, well said.

Otterluv

Maybe a more balanced approach is good: get some cardio, lift some weights, and make darn sure you are eating enough for both of those activities.

I love trail running, and worked hard to be able to do it. Nothing gets my heart rate up quite like it. Running through the woods and over little bridges, it's amazing.

As to it causing injuries and joint problems: I have an old knee injury, and I was worried that running would potentially damage it further. My doctor had me do C25K to ease my joints into it, starting on a track, before I even attempted trail running. I have found that trails are softer on my joints than asphalt is. Also, weight lifting will help strengthen bones and joints, allowing for higher impact activities.

josiereside

bumping to read later..