Should we runners not run?
Replies
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Exercising and a caloric deficit will not result in weight gain, ever whether you have a thyroid issue or not because that is not how the laws of thermodynamics work.
Um, this is false. Hypothyroidism doesn't care about exercise and caloric deficit. It cares about getting some Synthroid to get things right again. Also, I have nfi if running and similar cardio can mess up your thyroid. We didn't learn about that in medical school so I'm a bit suspicious. Oh, and running is so hard I can't stand it. Sometimes I think "I hate runners, they're so annoying" but then I realize I'm just jealous.0 -
Don’t want to stop running? Fine. Then stop complaining about how the fat won’t come off your hips, thighs, and *kitten*. You’re keeping it there.
i beg to differ on this statement. i went from having a big wide butt and not just big and wide but high too (so high my mother said she could rest her teacup on it), to one that is more "normal". the extra giggle in my thighs are gone and my hips are smaller. all because of running.
i'll keep running.
Agreed. I was able to break a plateau (from about 205lbs down in to the mid 190s) by incorporating running in to my routine (after doing the elliptical as my cardio and strength training). My several month long plateau was broken in just a couple of weeks by adding in 3miles/day 3-4 days/week at an 11-12 min pace.
Maybe the point is more that cardio only is not the solution. So many waif-like women ARE on the treadmill and DO struggle with fat burning, the author just chose to take such an extreme approach that it's kind of a turn off. Lesson (as others have said): lift weights, eat clean, and do SOME cardio.0 -
I'm curious about...Training consistently at 65 percent or more of your max heart rate adapts your body to save as much body fat as possible.
In my mind, this is speaking to the heart rate training zones and I've been struggling with that concept lately. Working at 60-70% of my sex-adjusted maximum heart rate, which supposedly burns the most fat, just doesn't feel like I'm working hard enough.
And what does the author mean by "consistently"? I'm not a runner, but I do a stationary bike and a treadmill for 45-60 minutes (combined) 5-6 days a week. I know it's not the 20 hours a week that he's talking about so I'm just wondering if it relates.0 -
I just love all these "women should not" articles.0
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I just love all these "women should not" articles.
Who let you out of the house?
Women should never leave...0 -
I have seen this approach many times from people with the author's background. The are just smart enough to be stupid. They are masters of the minutiae, and therefore they see conspiracies behind every detail. They leap from micro detail to sweeping generalization with the soaring grace of a startled gazelle. The smug condescension behind the author's approach is very revealing, as is his dependence on the most banal of cliches to inflate his sense of superiority.0
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I think all this article is saying is that far too much focus is placed on cardio in general and running specifically. I myself run...but I don't run steady state cardio for hours and hours every day...you do get to a point of diminishing returns and too much cardio also starts burning into your muscle. Look at marathon runners..are they lean and toned? Not really...they're fit, but they're also "skinny fat" just like pretty much every cardio bunny who neglects to do resistance training.
I've never seen a marathon runner that was skinny fat. They are generally just skinny (low weight and low BF) unless they also do other training.
But I have a cousin who is a marathon runner. She also teaches gymnastics, is a personal trainer and a certified Insanity instructor. She is not skinny fat. I have yet to see anyone on MFP with pics that would rival hers for fitness.
My SIL is a marathon runner...whenever she goes into full marathon training (pretty much all cardio and running miles and miles every week) her BF% goes up a bit and her LBM goes down. When she's done with the race she resumes normal training which involves a decent amount of cardio in combination with weight training...her BF% goes down and she builds LBM and just physically looks better.
Either way, she's fit...I'm not talking about fit...I'm talking about and this article is talking about people who just pound away for hours and hours doing cardio and little else...when they could get far more benefit from a more well rounded routine. You and just about everyone on this thread seem to be missing that point for some reason...and I'm also a runner, so I don't have any beef with cardio. People apparently just read the title of this thread and not the article.0 -
Total broscience. You can't take one person as an example and make broad statements out of context. And of course we should all cross train, strength train, eat and hydrate properly. This is why this lady had issues, not just because she ran.
I never EVER thought I'd say this but I love to run. However, I do have to be careful because of an old injury that makes my IT band and "trick" knee act up if I'm not smart. Forget to include proper strength training, stretching, cross training and I'll be benched for weeks. On top of it all, I have to have good shoes. And all of this is why I'm currently semi-benched.
Temps were rising and I got this grand idea to start working on my distance. I was like one of those idiots who drives like a maniac during the first big snow storm of the season - lalala, nothing can hurt me, I'm just fine OH CRAP :crash, bang, boom:!
The first run was fine but after the second run in my old shoes combined with sub-par stretching and no strength training, my "trick" knee started to get crunchy. Yup, that was just dumb. I've upped my strength training, improved my stretching and even done a couple short runs but won't push it until I get my new runners. So excited to pick those up this weekend and get back to it!0 -
Is running making women into muffin top blobs? Why can't I find any pictures of women marathon runners with huge spare tires that the author here is referring to?
Here's an article by fitness author/trainer Rachel Cosgrove on what running did to her previously lean body:
http://members.rachelcosgrove.com/public/The_Final_Nail_in_the_Cardio_Coffin.cfm
Of course she didn't get a "huge spare tire", but she says her body did indeed change whilst she was training for her first Ironman.
"My body was soft, with no definition, and had definitely changed due to spending the majority of my training in the steady-state aerobic zone — the same "fat burning zone" many books and magazine still talk about.
I was in great shape as far as my endurance and cardiovascular system were concerned, but I had less noticeable muscle tone and didn't have the definition I was used to having in my abs and arms.
Put it this way: I didn't even want to wear a crop top at my race because I didn't have abs, to show. In fact, I felt like I had rolls for the first time ever! My body had started to look like that of a flabby endurance athlete.
I'd lost some muscle and looked soft and flabby, but I was still happy with my performance and thrilled that I accomplished my goal."
Cosgrove gets into the whys and hows of it in the article and goes on to discuss how she regained her previously lean body by first dropping all the steady state cardio and instead doing HIIT or circuit training styled workouts. She dropped the fat and returned to her lean state within about 8 weeks.
Every time I read this, my reaction is: "Well, you must have been following a suck-*kitten* fitness and diet routine, to get those results. How is your failure proof of anything?" Her story is an n=1 anecdote that is interesting, but hardly groundbreaking.
I work with hundreds of people a year. You see all sorts of outcomes--I've had people do almost all steady-state and look firm and lean and I have seen (especially now) dozens of people following Cosgrove-type programs who still look like giant tubs of goo---actually like big bowls of quivering jello from all the jumping around they feel they have to do to be "just like Rachel".0 -
Don't worry about it. The person who wrote it does not understand the physiology of cardiovascular exercise. The statement is blatantly untrue.I'm curious about...Training consistently at 65 percent or more of your max heart rate adapts your body to save as much body fat as possible.
In my mind, this is speaking to the heart rate training zones and I've been struggling with that concept lately. Working at 60-70% of my sex-adjusted maximum heart rate, which supposedly burns the most fat, just doesn't feel like I'm working hard enough.
And what does the author mean by "consistently"? I'm not a runner, but I do a stationary bike and a treadmill for 45-60 minutes (combined) 5-6 days a week. I know it's not the 20 hours a week that he's talking about so I'm just wondering if it relates.0 -
I'm curious about...Training consistently at 65 percent or more of your max heart rate adapts your body to save as much body fat as possible.
In my mind, this is speaking to the heart rate training zones and I've been struggling with that concept lately. Working at 60-70% of my sex-adjusted maximum heart rate, which supposedly burns the most fat, just doesn't feel like I'm working hard enough.
And what does the author mean by "consistently"? I'm not a runner, but I do a stationary bike and a treadmill for 45-60 minutes (combined) 5-6 days a week. I know it's not the 20 hours a week that he's talking about so I'm just wondering if it relates.
ok - big secret here, so lean in - "fat zone" = shenanigans. Yes, if you are truly in your "fat burning" heart rate zone, a higher percentage of your calories burned will come from fat instead of glycogen stored in your liver. But you know what, that glycogen stored in your liver has to be used or it will turn into fat. And that glycogen has to be replaced anyway, because that's the way we work. But if you exercise at a higher heart rate, you will burn more total calories (including calories from fat), and lose weight faster.
If you're looking to lose weight, do high intensity intervals and strength training, and fuel your workouts (don't under-eat). Strength training builds muscle, and HIIT burns more calories for the time commitment.
If you're looking to build cardiovascular health (and are not at all concerned with weight), cardio at lower intensities (lower aerobic range) builds capillaries better than cardio at higher intensities (anaerobic range). But you won't burn as many calories for the time involved.
Another note - any heart rate zone that you've figured out from a formula involving your age and sex is also likely so far off it's useless. Especially if you're extremely fit, have a heart condition, or are otherwise too far from whatever "average" the formula depends on. My max heart rate, according to my age and gender and the standard formula, should be 187. Meaning anything over that should be quite impossible unless I'm having a cardiac event... Except that I get it over 210 at least once a week, with no ill effects. True, not for very long, and I don't purposely do it, but it's 23 beats off the formula, so the rest of the formula also doesn't work for me.
Instead, use a heart rate monitor and do a pseudo VO2 max test, or a lactic threshold heart rate test, (googles will tell you how), and get your REAL max/anaerobic threshold heart rates. But even if you do that, that won't make sitting in the "Fat burning zone" the most efficient use of your time, it will just give you a better idea of your actual health.0 -
I trained for and ran a local 15K for 5 years in a row when I was in my 30's. I wasn't counting calories then but I didnt restrict them in any way. I did eat healthier though without a lot of junk. A few years before I started I was diagnosed as hypothyroid. After a year of replacement meds for my thyroid I still felt like I was in a fog though. I wasnt overweight..just fell slow and groggy!
I started to jog a few times a week....that turned into abt 4 days a week. Slowly the fog lifted and after awhile I felt absolutely fantastic.! The muscles in my legs and butt were incredible! I lifted some upper body weights and had some arm definition...
Body fat measured was about 18-20%. I never felt better in my life. I didnt want to go crazy and make it my life...but it was a definite positive in my life!
I had a minor car accident and hurt my lower back, and also got plantar fascitis. Not majorly but just bothers me if I run..so I don't any longer.
I miss it.
If you enjoy running...then run!0 -
Exercising and a caloric deficit will not result in weight gain, ever whether you have a thyroid issue or not because that is not how the laws of thermodynamics work.
Um, this is false. Hypothyroidism doesn't care about exercise and caloric deficit. It cares about getting some Synthroid to get things right again. Also, I have nfi if running and similar cardio can mess up your thyroid. We didn't learn about that in medical school so I'm a bit suspicious. Oh, and running is so hard I can't stand it. Sometimes I think "I hate runners, they're so annoying" but then I realize I'm just jealous.
No it is not-- my aunt has hypothyroidism and if she gets down to a low enough caloric deficit (it has to be very low so she doesn't do it anymore), she loses weight. There is nothing you can do to your metabolism that will prevent you from losing weight if you are not getting any sustenance. Your body can not create fat if it is not taking in enough material to do so.0 -
The overall point of what this article is trying to convey is women believe that in order to lose weight they MUST eat much fewer calories and they MUST run themselves silly and this is just false.
He's trying to say you can get faster, if not better results from HIIT 3 times a week for 30 minutes a day instead of running 5 days a week 60 minutes or more a day.
Is he saying it in the best way? Probably not.
He's just trying to get the point across that only running (and lots of it) is not the way to a sleek sculpted body. Now, will your lungs be happy? Sure thing. But the other muscles in your body? Nope.
^^THIS! I think this article has been taken out of context in this thread...or nobody actually read it. Keifer wasn't saying nobody should run, or women should not run. He's talking about women beating themselves into the ground with steady state cardio. Running was the example he used, but it could be any sort of steady state cardio.
He's also not saying DO NOT DO CARDIO. This article is making the case in favour of HIIT (high intensity interval training) over steady state cardio (running, stair master, elliptical, bike, etc) for fat loss.
You're totally right.
I can think of one girl I know. Her eating is disordered and she spends HOURS on the elliptical every day. You would think that she would be down to nothing but she really has to fight to keep the weight off. Of course she is extremely disordered but it really does show you that steady-state isn't doing much for her desired fat loss.0 -
That being said...
I enjoy running far more than I have ever enjoyed any other form of exercise. So much so that I really don't view it AS exercise. In my experience the activity you enjoy is the one you will do and do consistently. As I get older I am trying to be more disciplined with regard to resistance training.
My new routine (I will post how it goes) is to run to the local gym, do a focused and intense resistance routine, run home. I can add miles to the run as I adapt but for now it is challenging and fun. I am fortunate to have a decent gym with 24 hour access near my home. I have another gym about 4 miles away which I will run to when I build up my endurance. That will let me integrate 8 mile daily runs with resistance training and get it all done before most people get out of bed. On days when I need to take it easy I can run to the nearer gym.
Sound crazy?
No, that sounds awesome!!0 -
I'm of the "I'm only running if I'm being chased by a bear," mindset (extensive walking and elliptical are my cardio of choice), but it you want to run, run. Balancing it with strength training is a very good idea (I've started that this week with NRoL4Life), but you should do whatever kind of exercise makes you happy. The chances are better that you'll stick with it.0
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That being said...
I enjoy running far more than I have ever enjoyed any other form of exercise. So much so that I really don't view it AS exercise. In my experience the activity you enjoy is the one you will do and do consistently. As I get older I am trying to be more disciplined with regard to resistance training.
My new routine (I will post how it goes) is to run to the local gym, do a focused and intense resistance routine, run home. I can add miles to the run as I adapt but for now it is challenging and fun. I am fortunate to have a decent gym with 24 hour access near my home. I have another gym about 4 miles away which I will run to when I build up my endurance. That will let me integrate 8 mile daily runs with resistance training and get it all done before most people get out of bed. On days when I need to take it easy I can run to the nearer gym.
Sound crazy?
No! Sounds fabulous! Especially the idea of running to and from the gym--very good use of time!
I love running so I run; I do find that I like my body composition better when I add resistance and strength training work. I was in the best shape of my life last spring when I was doing both half marathon training and focused resistance/strength training work, trying to get back there now.0 -
Thanks for the responses guys! I'd love to hear from a few people who choose not to incorporate running into their workouts.
This particular article has been discussed many times previously, and you may want to use the search function to get a good range of opinions.
I love to run. It's not the only fitness activity I do, but I do love it. I know it burns a lot of fat, and that I find it close to impossible to lose when I'm not running. I know that it makes me feel more capable, calmer, and more all round fabulous than anything else. I have no intention of stopping something that gives me so much pleasure, and has been demonstrated to be protective in relation to the development of several age-linked chronic health problems (including arthritis).0 -
I just love all these "women should not" articles.
I endorse the sentiment of this post.0 -
I love running and have no intention of stopping, but I have proven to my own satisfaction that running isn't enough - at least for me. While I didn't gain weight when I slacked off on strength training as I ramped up my running time, I did gain a muffin top. And more distressing, I lost a lot of strength. What finally knocked some sense into me was the realization that I was getting progressively less steady on my feet as I ran. After 2 falls in as many weeks I cut back on my running time and began looking around for a good strength training program I could do at home.
What sort of programs are you doing at home?
Adjustable dumbbells and what's left of my dad's old barbell set.
I started out with this: http://produmbbellworkouts.com/dumbbell-routines/full-body-high-volume/
Then switched to workouts built on one or another of the templates here: http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMenu.html0 -
I don't do much running. Maybe 5 minutes before my workout to warm up. I don't dislike running and I've gone through phases of running a lot (like an hour when I did the Gateway to 8K program a couple years back).
I have been exercising regularly for 7 years so I've had time to stick to a few plans for a while. I was serious about running, powerlifting, mountain biking, and general weightlifting for physique. These days I'm more about functional strength which includes a lot of core work, balance, and plyometrics to move my body weight around. I have the benefit of an exercise science degree so I know what types of activities complement each other. I will say that neither running nor lifting ever got my glutes as tight and perky as plyometrics almost every day.
Articles like these are just being picky for the most part. Considering that 30% of adult Americans are obese, just the fact that YOU ARE MOVING is excellent!0 -
Thanks for the responses guys! I'd love to hear from a few people who choose not to incorporate running into their workouts.
I have run in the past, but I haven't run at all since last June. I hate running on the treadmill and I'm not real crazy about running outside even when the weather is perfect. I don't know if I'll run this year or not. Not because I think it's bad for me, but just because I don't really enjoy it. I really wish I did like it. I envy people who can run and make it look leisurely.
I do plenty of other cardio - Turbo Fire, hiking, biking, general aerobics - though. I'm gonna go home and do a 55 min Turbo Fire cardio workout this evening.0 -
...a physician mentioned to my husband recently that he sees a lot of people that are "running themselves into the ground". So I thought I'd bring it up for discussion here to see what results.
Yep, that was quite literally what I was doing. I've reformed.
I totally did this too... but rather than change my miles, I changed my diet. I was eating too little to fuel my workouts. Upped the calories and felt like a million bucks. YMVMV, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.
I'd been eating enough to feel good and maintain my weight, but my lean body mass was already on the low side even before I overdid the cardio because of my age (late 50s) and my sedentary lifestyle before I lost the weight. By the time the flab was (mostly) gone I weighed less than I had since high school, and I was a skinny adolescent then. Seemed a good idea to concentrate on building muscle for a while. I'm still running about 15 miles a week and don't know how counterproductive that is, if at all. But at least the face plants have stopped.0 -
When I read this article at first I thought it was just for those women who do a ton of cardio/running becasue of the 20 hour a week comment. But I read some of the comments below and it seems like the author is saying running is bad . Here is the comment:
Poster:
You refer to hours of running per day. What about someone who runs 30 min a day a few times a week, or even 30-40 min every day? Some of your language suggests running is out completely for women, but then you describe what most women would consider extreme workout schedules. Is your point more that women shouldn't over-do it with cardio? Can you be more specific about how much running is too much and could cause these kinds of negative results?
Author:
From the research, a few times per week at less than 30 minutes should not have as heavy of an impact, but you're riding a fine line here and there are gaps in the research. So I can't answer this fully. If you find you can run 2 times per week at this intensity and it has no effect on you whatsoever and you're happy with how you look, keep doing it. If, however, you're using this activity to achieve a body that you desire or to increase your health, then ditch it. It's not helping your cause.
So basically if you run a few (2-3) times a week less than 30 mins you are fine (maybe), but anymore it will be negative. So it is not just someone who is running 20 hours a week. I have been running for 7 months. I have lost a lot of weight and my butt is smaller and is looking a lot better. I just started to incorporate weight lifting (4 weeks now). I am going to keep running, because I love it. It makes me happy:)0 -
I almost never do cardio except when trying to lose the last few pounds. It is like an ace I keep in my back pocket because cardio work great.......until it does not work anymore.0
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I agree with it, but mostly because I don't think anyone should run
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When I read this article at first I thought it was just for those women who do a ton of cardio/running becasue of the 20 hour a week comment. But I read some of the comments below and it seems like the author is saying running is bad . Here is the comment:
Poster:
You refer to hours of running per day. What about someone who runs 30 min a day a few times a week, or even 30-40 min every day? Some of your language suggests running is out completely for women, but then you describe what most women would consider extreme workout schedules. Is your point more that women shouldn't over-do it with cardio? Can you be more specific about how much running is too much and could cause these kinds of negative results?
Author:
From the research, a few times per week at less than 30 minutes should not have as heavy of an impact, but you're riding a fine line here and there are gaps in the research. So I can't answer this fully. If you find you can run 2 times per week at this intensity and it has no effect on you whatsoever and you're happy with how you look, keep doing it. If, however, you're using this activity to achieve a body that you desire or to increase your health, then ditch it. It's not helping your cause.
So basically if you run a few (2-3) times a week less than 30 mins you are fine (maybe), but anymore it will be negative. So it is not just someone who is running 20 hours a week. I have been running for 7 months. I have lost a lot of weight and my butt is smaller and is looking a lot better. I just started to incorporate weight lifting (4 weeks now). I am going to keep running, because I love it. It makes me happy:)
Could you provide evidence that running doesn't help with health - specifically evidence on cardio and bowel health, and on arthritis....?0 -
Articles like these are just being picky for the most part. Considering that 30% of adult Americans are obese, just the fact that YOU ARE MOVING is excellent!
Well said.0 -
Don't worry about it. The person who wrote it does not understand the physiology of cardiovascular exercise. The statement is blatantly untrue.I'm curious about...Training consistently at 65 percent or more of your max heart rate adapts your body to save as much body fat as possible.
In my mind, this is speaking to the heart rate training zones and I've been struggling with that concept lately. Working at 60-70% of my sex-adjusted maximum heart rate, which supposedly burns the most fat, just doesn't feel like I'm working hard enough.
And what does the author mean by "consistently"? I'm not a runner, but I do a stationary bike and a treadmill for 45-60 minutes (combined) 5-6 days a week. I know it's not the 20 hours a week that he's talking about so I'm just wondering if it relates.
Like to hear your thoughts as you seem to have a pretty solid understanding of exercise physiology.0 -
While I understand that ONLY cardio (and lots of it) definitely isn't the way to go, the author of this article can pry my running shoes out of my cold, dead fingers! :laugh:
Ditto. I will never stop running. Never.
Yes!!!!0
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