Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?

CrabNebula

After having watched a few documentaries on YT about eating disorders, I keep comments to myself either way. One of the things that really got me about the anorexia patients was their absolute obsession with what they thought *society* thought thin was and how they could never live up to it even at 60-70lbs. Sure they are sick, but it really didn't seem to take much of a suggestion at all for those already predisposed to the disorder to go off the deep end with it. Another one of the disturbing things was they they had kids as young as 11 on there who had starved themselves to a bag of bones.

I think the focus should be on celebrating people with normal BMIs rather than looking at celebrating obese or underweight individuals as ideals.

rml_16

The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

So, yes to the thread title.

"Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.

No.

But I can determine that if you remain overweight for long enough -- especially as overweight as people have become in general -- that even if you never develop heart disease or diabetes, your joints are going to give on you and you are going to have trouble even walking short distances. Your quality of life will be lower.

Maybe your quality of life will be lower. Maybe mine would. But "it ain't necessarily so." Quality of life is dependent on SO many things and is entirely, 100%, subjective. I had a friend in college with a poster that said "If you give up wine, women, and song you won''t live longer, but it'll sure SEEM longer." This is just another red herring to justify a bunch of concern over something that is each person's private business. You ALSO cannot determine my "quality of life" by looking.

Walk around an amusement park sometime and take note of people around middle age ridingin scooters.

Pay really close attention to the stamina your overweight friends have when you go dancing or do anything particularly physically demanding.

For me, even an extra 5 pounds slows me down in my workouts and my knees hurt more. I'm only 36 and I'm barely overweight.

antxoable

All of this changes so much depending on the country you live in. I am spanish and all my life I was the largest of my friends being 5'9" and 70kg, now I am 63kg, a BMI of 22 and BF% of about 18. When I moved to UK everyone was telling me how slim I was fitting size 12 and now that I am a 10 some people call me skinny!!!back home i am still a chubby girl...with thick legs, even I have muscle on them define thigs and six pack....I would never be loved from everyone but I know I am healthy go gym, eat well and like my shape, thats the important thing....I think UK people are bigger than in other parts of europe and most of them don't care, I fit in s/m legging when i am a size 10(sometimes 12), while in spain that is for the size 4-6......

DamePiglet

(In the US) I feel like we have gone from having normal body image (up to the 1960s) to too thin (70s, 80s, 90s) to celebrating being overweight (American TV shows "Mike & Molly" and the BBW movement). Ideally, we'd all be comfortable in our bodies AND at a healthy weight, not one or the other! Being obese is nothing to celebrate, as is an eating disorder or being too thin.

IMHO, a lot of "too thin" or "too fat" is more complicated than a height and weight. It's how active you are, your frame, muscle mass, and how good you feel about yourself. But for sure, 5 or 10lbs on either side of an ideal weight isn't too big of a deal... it's when you get in to the 40, 50lbs either way that it becomes a problem!

Yep.
Just a little something to consider here... my husband teaches Tae Kwon Do (for a zillion years now) and is on the border of underweight on the BMI scale (he looks wonderfully athletic to me, btw, especially considering he's 48 years old)
I, on the otherhand, am still overweight on the BMI scale and even in my own eyes - although I'm working on it!)

Funny thing... besides my BMI, I'm the picture of health. I'm only 3 years younger than he is, so that's not a factor.
My life is AT LEAST as stressful as his.
My hubby's cholesterol and blood pressure are high normal.
My blood pressure, cholesterol and other stats are actually "athlete" low now and were always lower than his (even at my largest size, and we've been together 11 years).

Size doesn't necessarily dictate health, friends.

Last bit... as a teen in the '80s (in the U.S.), I thought that to be truly fit and attractive, my thighs should not touch. That's how all the models looked! I was always very active and ate well, yet I couldn't understand why, at 5'8 and 120 lbs, I could NEVER be 'fit and attractive'. Being stuck at a dreaded size 7 was simply torture to my teenage self. Although my family and friends assured me that I was in terrific shape, I just couldn't shake the feeling I was flawed.

While I don't advocate muffin tops being classified as 'curves', I think there is plenty of room in the world for different makes and models of body types.

To males who think the Special K model is not datable due to her "unattracive" or "thick" figure... I recon she'd find you pretty unacceptable, too.

Wilsonj45

Since I lost all of my weight I find myself looking around and noticing just how fat our general population has become. It is quite sad that when I was that size I felt completely normal and didn't feel bad about myself because "everyone else was the same". I could always find someone that was the same size or larger thus making me feel fine about who I was.

Once the weight was dropped, I was now the oddball, I constantly hear "you look sick, you need to eat something" or "you are obsessed, you work out too much" or "can you eat that? its not on your diet plan" Well, I am still about 18% body fat, so I dont think I look sick, I work out routinely (3 to 5 days a week) depending on the routine I want to focus on, and im not on a diet.. it is a lifestyle, I eat whatever I want... Consequently, I am healthier, I don't necessarily "want" to put the same foods in my fuel tank as you may want to.

It is also humorous to be out with people that didn't know me when I was fat... They see the amount of food that I eat now and are like man, how do you stay so thin? or, eating like that is going to catch up to you" Well folks, I have had two trainers that convinced me that you need to "feed the machine", to keep your metabolism going you need to eat (multiple meals a day - Every two to three hours) and be active. I eat more food now than I did when I was fat and continue to lose body fat % and gain lean muscle mass. There are days that I actually get tired of eating but I am literally still hungry. Its a wonderful thing when your body is so efficient that you can eat pretty much anything you want and still hit your fitness goals.

Anyway, look at society, try to be a role model for change, and try to inspire just one person to live a healthier lifestyle. If you see someone trying to make a change, try to help them and not tease or make fun of them, you could help to save their life.

edack72

YES!!!!!

climbing_trees

Walk around an amusement park sometime and take note of people around middle age ridingin scooters.

Pay really close attention to the stamina your overweight friends have when you go dancing or do anything particularly physically demanding.

For me, even an extra 5 pounds slows me down in my workouts and my knees hurt more. I'm only 36 and I'm barely overweight.

I am a gogo dancer, and I'm about 20-30 lbs heavier than the rest of the girls. However, I am the most active, I work out (cardio and weights) regularly and attempt to eat a balanced diet. I can dance circles around my team mates. They may look "hotter" and "fitter" but they get tired after 5-10 minutes and switch out with each other to rest while I keep going.

Not trying to argue, I just wanted to offer an alternative to your point. I believe that fitness and weight are definitely related, though the closer you get to "normal" weight, the harder it is to tell by just looking.

rml_16

Walk around an amusement park sometime and take note of people around middle age ridingin scooters.

Pay really close attention to the stamina your overweight friends have when you go dancing or do anything particularly physically demanding.

For me, even an extra 5 pounds slows me down in my workouts and my knees hurt more. I'm only 36 and I'm barely overweight.

I am a gogo dancer, and I'm about 20-30 lbs heavier than the rest of the girls. However, I am the most active, I work out (cardio and weights) regularly and attempt to eat a balanced diet. I can dance circles around my team mates. They may look "hotter" and "fitter" but they get tired after 5-10 minutes and switch out with each other to rest while I keep going.

Not trying to argue, I just wanted to offer an alternative to your point. I believe that fitness and weight are definitely related, though the closer you get to "normal" weight, the harder it is to tell by just looking.

You're also 22 and from your photo, while you may be heavier than the rest, you also appear to be a healthy weight.

I would like to hear what you have to say in 10-15 years and a few more pounds on your frame, if you are still able to do this.

LaurenAOK

Yes, I think so. When I started I was 5'4" and 145lbs, which is right on the normal/overweight border of BMI (I'm actually almost that heavy again now, but I did a bulk and put on some muscle so I look different. Anyway that's besides the point). But yes back before I started losing weight, I thought I looked great... I mean I was still thinner than a lot of people I knew! It wasn't until I started losing weight that I actually realized how much extra fat was on my body, and learned that jeans aren't supposed to make you feel like you can't breathe when you put them on :laugh: I definitely feel that in America, especially the South, we see oveweight people so often that it basically has become the new "normal."

BTW... I'm not necessarily saying this is a terrible thing. I think it's important that we get exposed to all body types as being "normal." I'm glad this isn't like back in the 80s or whatever where being anything besides "skinny" was considered strange and wrong. Don't get me wrong, there's still tons of fat-shaming out there. But with so much of the population being overweight, I think we're seeing less of that than we used to. So maybe that's the bright side of things?

spookiefox

The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

So, yes to the thread title.

"Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.

No.

But I can determine that if you remain overweight for long enough -- especially as overweight as people have become in general -- that even if you never develop heart disease or diabetes, your joints are going to give on you and you are going to have trouble even walking short distances. Your quality of life will be lower.

Maybe your quality of life will be lower. Maybe mine would. But "it ain't necessarily so." Quality of life is dependent on SO many things and is entirely, 100%, subjective. I had a friend in college with a poster that said "If you give up wine, women, and song you won''t live longer, but it'll sure SEEM longer." This is just another red herring to justify a bunch of concern over something that is each person's private business. You ALSO cannot determine my "quality of life" by looking.

Walk around an amusement park sometime and take note of people around middle age ridingin scooters.

Pay really close attention to the stamina your overweight friends have when you go dancing or do anything particularly physically demanding.

For me, even an extra 5 pounds slows me down in my workouts and my knees hurt more. I'm only 36 and I'm barely overweight.

So you're the ultimate decider of what constitutes a quality life? People who can't or don't dance automatically have a lower quality of life? I'll let my friend who was paralyzed in a car accident know.

I'm at amusement parks all the time--I LOVE amusement parks--but what's your point about scooters? Disabled people can't enjoy amusement parks?

Obviously working out "fast" (whatever that means) is important to you, but it's not important to all of us. Some of us have experienced things that make it harder for us to work out, and we just go at our own pace. Not all of us want life to be a race.

I'm a cancer survivor (cue the "you must have an unhealthy lifestyle and it must be your fault you had cancer" people here. Because no one EVER gets cancer unless they have this ethereal "unhealthy lifestyle) and I'm well aware that I am likely to have a recurrence. So I moderate my "eat healthy and exercise" with some "do what you enjoy." For me, quality of life is more than JUST my weight and fitness level.

The point is, we all decide what is important to our quality of life. If I'd prefer to be a little heavier and work out a little less because I want to eat what I like and do what I want that's quality of life for me. If working out really "fast" is important to you, that''s your quality of life.

You absolutely positively CANNOT determine someone's quality of life by looking!

PapaverSomniferum

And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.

Um, so you'd prefer us fatties run around naked? O.O

yes, please

(this has been a message from your friendly creepy chubby chaser)

rml_16

And this is exactly why having plus size models, clothing stores & the like have got to go.

Um, so you'd prefer us fatties run around naked? O.O

yes, please

(this has been a message from your friendly creepy chubby chaser)

Well, shame 'em into being thin! Why not? lol

While I say yes to the thread title, I don't have a problem with plus-sized models and stores. That's silly.

My concern is that there are so many people in denial. "I'm the average size, so that means I'm OK."

beekay70

I know that obesity is a growing problem in developed countries, but I don't think it's become the new "normal". I think that we've realized that a healthy weight isn't determined solely by a person's gender and height. I see that the OP is 5'10" and states that his weight is normal at 135-138. I am 6'1", 210 lbs, and have 16% body fat. I have a hard time imagining someone 3" shorter than me and 75lbs lighter as "healthy". That can be due to body composition. Maybe the OP has a small frame with no musculature. That's not meant to be an insult, just to illustrate that body type has everything to do with your proper weight range. So, I don't find it that odd that someone might tell him to eat a sandwich.

porcelain_doll

Yes, I believe perspectives have been skewed. My current weight would have been considered obviously overweight back in the mid-90s, but today people are telling me I do not need to lose anymore or else I will be too skinny. Funny, nobody had a problem with me being "too skinny" when I was at my goal weight/normal weight back then.

Also, I think clothing sizes have been "adjusted." Right now, I am 5'6"/170 lbs. and I wear a size 10 jeans. Again, back in the 90s, I would have worn a size 10 if I were 20-30 lbs. lighter. By the time I get to my goal weight now, I will likely fit into a size 6 and I've never worn a 6 in my life (excluding my junior high years, of course). I have also been buying size S and M tops that do not look like they should be sized S or M..... it's just weird.

laurenward1990

in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!

If you think the Special K girl is "fat" you are deluded. I think some of the people here should be ashamed of themselves for being such terrible "fattists". Have you ever considered the other side of the scale (pardon the pun) - that being unhealthily thin has become desirable and that also impacts on health?

I consider myself "fat" (although my BMI is 23 - which is within the "healthy" weight range) and I often feel like i should be ashamed about how I look, all because there are people who think that unless you're in the gym 5+ times a week and eating "clean" 100% of the time, you're not a respectable person and you have let yourself go.

I think it's a little disrespectful to say that fat has become a social norm and something that is accepted when it shouldn't be. Now i'm not saying there aren't health problems with some people who are VERY overweight, but unless someone is obese and it is a hindrance on their life and their health, what does someone's shape or weight have to do with any body else?

I do realise MFP is here to help change peoples habits and to make people healthier, but I don't think that once you've got to that place you should look down on other people who are above average weight. We can't all be your idea of "healthy-looking".

Maybe i'm missing the point?

QuietBloom

Here in the US - definitely. BTW, being told to 'eat a sandwich' is skinny shaming. We've gone from a culture that fat shamed to a culture that skinny shames. Neither is acceptable. :mad:

rml_16

Have you ever considered the other side of the scale (pardon the pun) - that being unhealthily thin has become desirable and that also impacts on health?

When the new average size is "too skinny," we can debate that. As it stands, the majority of people are overweight or obese and the "average" size is overweight.

The too-skinny look may be what the media portrays as desirable, but it isn't the size most people outside of Hollywood and the modeling industry actually ARE.

And there has been a backlash against the too-skinny ideal. They're banning models under a certain BMI from working in many countries.

spookiefox

I know that obesity is a growing problem in developed countries, but I don't think it's become the new "normal". I think that we've realized that a healthy weight isn't determined solely by a person's gender and height. I see that the OP is 5'10" and states that his weight is normal at 135-138. I am 6'1", 210 lbs, and have 16% body fat. I have a hard time imagining someone 3" shorter than me and 75lbs lighter as "healthy". That can be due to body composition. Maybe the OP has a small frame with no musculature. That's not meant to be an insult, just to illustrate that body type has everything to do with your proper weight range. So, I don't find it that odd that someone might tell him to eat a sandwich.

I know that's common belief, but is it really? Is it really a "growing problem in developed countries?" We live longer than our counterparts in third world countries. And is a longer life even more important than enjoying the life you have?

laurenward1990

Could anyone tell me what they personally think "over weight" is in terms of height/weight/clothes size/BMI?

laurenward1990

What should the average size/weight be in your opinion?