Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?

CollieFit

The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

So, yes to the thread title.

"Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.

A colleague pediatrician, who sees very young obese children who develop leg and joint deformities thanks to the vast amount of weight their little growing legs are expected to support.

You can SEE their discomfort as they toddle towards you. He sees 3-4 year olds with such bad joints that you can already say at that age that thanks to obesity you're looking at early onset arthritis, medication management, surgery....

But hey quality of life is all relative eh?

I'm done here...

jolodo

bump

seltzermint555

I actually have a funny story about that. I was online dating for a while and on the profile described myself as 'curvy' (I was 5'8'' and 180 lbs then). I once went on a date with someone that was disappointed that I was 'normal' and not what he thought was 'curvy'. He suggested I should change my description to 'normal' or 'average'. Clearly, at 180 pounds I was overweight but apparently not enough

Yeah even at 260 I was told by several guys upon meeting me, "Oh you are curvy/few extra lb, not BBW" ummm morbidly obese is definitely BBW category (a term I actually hate, but didn't want to specify myself as "a few extra lbs" or "curvy" like I was in denial, and BBW was the largest category). Apparently if you are still proportionate and/or "girl-shaped" as one guy put it you're not a "BBW" to many men.

spookiefox

The average dress size in the US a few years ago was 12. Now it's 14. Both are not small sizes (I think they translate to 14 and 16 UK, but I'm not sure). I was just this side of obese on the BMI scale when I wore a size 12. Even a tall woman in a size 14 is a pretty good sized woman.

But yet I hear all the time how pop culture needs to start putting out larger "role models" because, after all, size 14 is average and therefore "normal."

It's overweight. Just because the average is overweight doesn't make it a healthy weight or size. It just means more people are overweight. That isn't something to celebrate.

So, yes to the thread title.

"Overweight" is not a synonym for "unhealthy." In fact it's not a useful word at all. You cannot determine health or unhealth by looking.

A colleague pediatrician, who sees very young obese children who develop leg and joint deformities thanks to the vast amount of weight their little growing legs are expected to support.

You can SEE their discomfort as they toddle towards you. He sees 3-4 year olds with such bad joints that you can already say at that age that thanks to obesity you're looking at early onset arthritis, medication management, surgery....

But hey quality of life is all relative eh?

I'm done here...

"Quality of life" is indeed a personal thing, and how a person's health is affected by his/her weight is between a person and his/her doctor, as I said.

hajenkatt

My husband and I were just talking about this the other day. I do think it's true that public perception has changed. We love Fats Domino, and his first hit in 1950 was called "The Fat Man". The beginning of the song goes like this:


They call, they call me the fat man
´Cause I weigh 200 pounds:
All the girls they love me
´Cause I know my way around

If his nickname was Fats because he weighed 200 pounds (which is true), in this day and age I don't think anyone would bat an eye at that weight.

It's not one of my favorites from him, but still a good one. You can listen here if you've never heard it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIz1cPfTRW4

pinkraynedropjacki

Got this in an email today. Real women? Since when is FAT a real woman now? Does that mean because I'm not the size they state I am NOT a real woman? Talk about warped. People need to wake up to this crap.

FlaxMilk

"Quality of life" is indeed a personal thing, and how a person's health is affected by his/her weight is between a person and his/her doctor, as I said.

We should not tell people that quality of life may not be impacted. Being overweight at 20 doesn't necessarily feel so bad. There is no guarantee that an obese person will develop medical problems later in life, but the chances are increased, and that shouldn't be ignored. Quality of life today will not always look the same as it does is in the future. Someone may feel that being overweight is worth it at 30 and be miserable for another 20 years once they turn 50. A person who smokes cigarettes is not guaranteed to develop lung cancer or other problems, but it is not shaming to tell them that they might, and to warn them that their quality of life will suffer with lung cancer.

Your friend in the wheelchair still has a quality life and no one said otherwise. But most would say that life became more uncomfortable when they have to be in wheelchairs. Your friend would most likely choose to not have to use a wheelchair if he could. Do I know that? No, of course not, but we can't speak for every exception out there.

I didn't develop a condition I have from being overweight, but it can be caused by being overweight. If I knew what the pain was like in advance and was given a chance to keep it from happening by staying at a healthy weight, I would want to go for it. The condition interferes with my life and reduces my quality of life. If someone didn't warn me about it by seeing me doing something that could predict this condition happening to me, I'd be ticked off. Most people feel that chronic pain reduces their quality of life--not whether they have a quality life. Again, I'm sure there are examples of people who don't feel that it does. But quality of life refers to well-being, not a judgment on whether or not someone has a quality life, and like anything else, there will always be exceptions.

Of course I don't think that anyone should be shamed or not allowed to have attractive clothing, have fun, or get their needs met. If someone does not feel his quality of life is being hurt by being overweight and has his eyes wide open about risks, that's his business. I make lots of decisions that others don't necessarily understand. I have to stand by what makes my life meaningful and feels right. But there's nothing shaming about acknowledging an increased chance of discomfort. We're not talking about one day of misery and dying 20 years early but having a great time until a person gets there. People are instead risking years and years of discomfort and medical problems. Without crystal balls to know how our lives will turn out, we all just have to do what we can.

Iwishyouwell

Yes, absolutely, at least in the US it has. It's actually rather shocking. We are growing, as a nation, so fat that we are collectively redefining what our concept of "normal" is.

I am seeing more and more "feel good" platitudes like "real women have curves", and related such nonsense. And meanwhile anybody who is naturally very thin, or loses weight to the point of being within a perfectly healthy, lean range, is susceptible to claims of anorexia and villianiation for being "unhealthy", too thin, or even a bad influence.

Even on weight loss boards like MFP I find that many, many people set their goal weight far too high. I really, truly believe the average American is so use to seeing overweight people that even on a weight loss journey it seems completely unfathomable to imagine getting down to truly lean, slim weights. Or they've been so far for so long, so defeated in their overweightness/obesity, that they can't even imagine being at lower body weight.

I'm appalled every time I see an average height woman claim her goal weight is around 170 lbs or so, and nothing lower because she's afraid of looking "like a bag of bones" or "sickly". Give me a break, it's extremely hard to just wake up suddenly and look like a "bag of bones". That's the same foolish mindset that keeps many women from lifting weights because they think throwing around some poundage in the gym will accidentally turned them into she-hulks.

And for my fellow guys, it's even worse; very rarely these days do I see men who truly realize what a proper, healthy, non-fat body weight, and body fat percentage, looks like. Many are settling for just smaller guts and less rounded love handles. The idea of getting the body down to anything even approaching a lean, low body fat frame is laughable.

This is, IMO, an epidemic problem that threatens to keep us collectively fat from here on out. Because even when people do decide to shed the fat, and hopefully get healthier, many people simply won't actually finish their journeys.

RoadsterGirlie

Yes, absolutely, at least in the US it has. It's actually rather shocking. We are growing, as a nation, so fat that we are collectively redefining what our concept of "normal" is.

I am seeing more and more "feel good" platitudes like "real women have curves", and related such nonsense. And meanwhile anybody who is naturally very thin, or loses weight to the point of being within a perfectly healthy, lean range, is susceptible to claims of anorexia and villianiation for being "unhealthy", too thin, or even a bad influence.

Even on weight loss boards like MFP I find that many, many people set their goal weight far too high. I really, truly believe the average American is so use to seeing overweight people that even on a weight loss journey it seems completely unfathomable to imagine getting down to truly lean, slim weights. Or they've been so far for so long, so defeated in their overweightness/obesity, that they can't even imagine being at lower body weight.

I'm appalled every time I see an average height woman claim her goal weight is around 170 lbs or so, and nothing lower because she's afraid of looking "like a bag of bones" or "sickly". Give me a break, it's extremely hard to just wake up suddenly and look like a "bag of bones". That's the same foolish mindset that keeps many women from lifting weights because they think throwing around some poundage in the gym will accidentally turned them into she-hulks.

And for my fellow guys, it's even worse; very rarely these days do I see men who truly realize what a proper, healthy, non-fat body weight, and body fat percentage, looks like. Many are settling for just smaller guts and less rounded love handles. The idea of getting the body down to anything even approaching a lean, low body fat frame is laughable.

This is, IMO, an epidemic problem that threatens to keep us collectively fat from here on out. Because even when people do decide to shed the fat, and hopefully get healthier, many people simply won't actually finish their journeys.

This. I have yet to see anybody of a BMI of 25 looking like a bag of bones.

MercenaryNoetic26

We're headed towards a WALL-E type world where every one is riding hovercrafts with Buy & Large 32oz shakes in hand. That flick is a real eye-opener.

jaz050465

see many cultures its different. Body types are different. In most of Asia, you can be fit (AKA, low body fat %, have a 6 pack etc) and get called fat. You HAVE to be stick thin to be considered not fat here.

I personally say, who cares. Just be happy with your body. Nobody ever got a body that EVERYBODY around him/her were happy with. So why try to fit into what others thought was good looking eh?

I agree with this.

And being from the UK, I do not think it's considered normal to be fatter there at all, but I'm from London where every one aspires to be very thin. Apparently, in northern parts of the country the average sizes of people are bigger.

I agree. In live in Fife in Scotland now and I notice a huge difference when I go back to London to visit family, generally people are thinner there. I joke that where as in north West London, every other shop on the high street is a nail bar, in Fife, ever other shop is a bakers!!

The most recent version of the UK "fat map" as the media calls it always makes for interesting viewing...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320561/Fat-map-Britain-revealed-East-Midlands-worst-place-obesity-related-hospital-admissions.html

It says map of Britain- whete is Scotland???!!!! Now don't get me started on that as an issue!!!

CollieFit

see many cultures its different. Body types are different. In most of Asia, you can be fit (AKA, low body fat %, have a 6 pack etc) and get called fat. You HAVE to be stick thin to be considered not fat here.

I personally say, who cares. Just be happy with your body. Nobody ever got a body that EVERYBODY around him/her were happy with. So why try to fit into what others thought was good looking eh?

I agree with this.

And being from the UK, I do not think it's considered normal to be fatter there at all, but I'm from London where every one aspires to be very thin. Apparently, in northern parts of the country the average sizes of people are bigger.

I agree. In live in Fife in Scotland now and I notice a huge difference when I go back to London to visit family, generally people are thinner there. I joke that where as in north West London, every other shop on the high street is a nail bar, in Fife, ever other shop is a bakers!!

The most recent version of the UK "fat map" as the media calls it always makes for interesting viewing...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320561/Fat-map-Britain-revealed-East-Midlands-worst-place-obesity-related-hospital-admissions.html

It says map of Britain- whete is Scotland???!!!! Now don't get me started on that as an issue!!!

I know!! Wales isn't on it either and the South Wales Valleys have one of the highest obesity rates in the whole of the UK. Some newspapers appear to think that England is synonymous with Britain or UK... :huh:

kordell70

Got this in an email today. Real women? Since when is FAT a real woman now? Does that mean because I'm not the size they state I am NOT a real woman? Talk about warped. People need to wake up to this crap.

This add is not saying that "Real Women" are size 16-36. Rather the advert is merely stating the clothes have been designed for women sizes 16-36. Many times in the past clothing designers designed clothes for a certain size woman as the felt the clothing would look better on a certain body type. They would they get women who were size 8-14 to model the clothes but market them as being flattering on a woman of size 18 or more knowing in advance this was not the case. So this advert is saying nothing about "Fat" being the real woman now, but rather the clothing is being designed for the women who are really sizes 16-36.

melham

Got this in an email today. Real women? Since when is FAT a real woman now? Does that mean because I'm not the size they state I am NOT a real woman? Talk about warped. People need to wake up to this crap.

This add is not saying that "Real Women" are size 16-36. Rather the advert is merely stating the clothes have been designed for women sizes 16-36. Many times in the past clothing designers designed clothes for a certain size woman as the felt the clothing would look better on a certain body type. They would they get women who were size 8-14 to model the clothes but market them as being flattering on a woman of size 18 or more knowing in advance this was not the case. So this advert is saying nothing about "Fat" being the real woman now, but rather the clothing is being designed for the women who are really sizes 16-36.

kordell70, I totally disagree. I think just about everyone would read the ad to mean that "real women" are size 16-36, and I think that's exactly what the merchant was aiming for.

Iwishyouwell

You misunderstood what I said. Someone's obesity may not be anyone's business but the SUBJECT of obesity is a public health crisis, it's a legitimate topic of debate in a country where healthcare is funded by the tax payer!

It is NOT a "public health crisis." Remember back in the 1990s when they told us of the first generation of kids whose life expectancy was NOT longer than their parents? Supposedly because of obesity? Turns out they were wrong. That generation will live longer than their parents too. This is an imaginary "crisis" and unless you're also talking about people wearing sunscreen and riding motorcycles and scooters and every other thing associated with increased risk of illness and death, it's just fat shaming.

It's not a public health crisis?????

I guess you're not in the unenviable position to see the figures for your local area regarding obesity spend either from your Local Health Board or your local authority?? If you're under the illusion that this increased spend it not taken away from other areas of health then you are categorically badly informed.

This is an imaginary crisis....???

So I just imagine sitting at work costing out community care packages for double-handed or even triple-handed home care due to obesity? I imagine costing out adaptations to bathrooms due to obesity? I imagine costing out stair lifts due to obesity... motability car applications? I just imagined the phonecall with the Chief of our Fire Service regarding re-housing a service user who thanks to obesity can no longer be safely evacuated via his front door and now needs to be rehoused.... Yes I'm sure it's all in my mind...

My colleagues in health... they just imagine forking out for reinforced beds, special scales, reinforced ambulances...??? I guess they're all delusional too???

You haven't got a bloody clue!

I totally understand your frustration, but that's a pretty common counter-argument used in the Fat Acceptance movement. Many of those women and men are on a crusade to basically try and convince others that there is no real correlation between rising overweight and obesity figures and the relating rise of several diseases linked to fatness. This contingent will argue to the death that the obesity epidemic is just a fairytale, and we should all pretend it doesn't exist and mind our own business.

There really is no breaking through this POV. The amount of actual facts just become totally irrelevant.

lilacinfinity

size THIRTY-SIX?!

pinkraynedropjacki

Got this in an email today. Real women? Since when is FAT a real woman now? Does that mean because I'm not the size they state I am NOT a real woman? Talk about warped. People need to wake up to this crap.

This add is not saying that "Real Women" are size 16-36. Rather the advert is merely stating the clothes have been designed for women sizes 16-36. Many times in the past clothing designers designed clothes for a certain size woman as the felt the clothing would look better on a certain body type. They would they get women who were size 8-14 to model the clothes but market them as being flattering on a woman of size 18 or more knowing in advance this was not the case. So this advert is saying nothing about "Fat" being the real woman now, but rather the clothing is being designed for the women who are really sizes 16-36.

kordell70, I totally disagree. I think just about everyone would read the ad to mean that "real women" are size 16-36, and I think that's exactly what the merchant was aiming for.

Exactly. I complained to the magazine that did the advertising. They are sorry about it & will 'pass on a message to advertising'


Yeah right. I guess I'm not real woman enough. :mad: I guess I'll go burn my bra now...men dont wear them right? Well if I'm not a REAL woman then I must be a man.... my son will be so confused.

Nooditaur

I totally agree... and it's definitely a Western culture issue. I live in the UK, and when I was at a BMI of ~25 (going into the overweight category, and it was definitely fat, not muscle), I looked around to see that a good half of the population were my size or bigger. I have never been called "fat" here, even though I was clearly chubby. Compare that to when I visited China, and stick-thin girls (who would no doubt be called "anorexic" here in the UK) were everywhere, and normal. My clothes would be like a size XXL in China, whereas over here they would be M...

smu_77

You will love this 'global weight comparator' of the BBC!

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18770328&gt;

You enter your weight/gender/height and country and it gives you stats on where you stand compared to other people in your country and in the world.

Just to give you an idea: I live in the US, am 5'8 and 168 (BMI 26).

Nationally (compared to other women living in the US), I am BELOW average. I have a lower BMI than 73% of females aged 30-44 in the US.

On a global level, I have a higher BMI than 62% of females aged 30-44 in the world...

Its fun to do it, definitely recommend it. You can also compare to other countries, e.g. I am originally from Switzerland and there I would be ABOVE average as well....

I_Will_End_You

This add is not saying that "Real Women" are size 16-36. Rather the advert is merely stating the clothes have been designed for women sizes 16-36. Many times in the past clothing designers designed clothes for a certain size woman as the felt the clothing would look better on a certain body type. They would they get women who were size 8-14 to model the clothes but market them as being flattering on a woman of size 18 or more knowing in advance this was not the case. So this advert is saying nothing about "Fat" being the real woman now, but rather the clothing is being designed for the women who are really sizes 16-36.

That ad absolutely says that real women are size 16-36. I guess I'll stick to being a fake woman. :flowerforyou: