Have people's concepts of normal become too fat?
Replies
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I agree. In live in Fife in Scotland now and I notice a huge difference when I go back to London to visit family, generally people are thinner there. I joke that where as in north West London, every other shop on the high street is a nail bar, in Fife, ever other shop is a bakers!!see many cultures its different. Body types are different. In most of Asia, you can be fit (AKA, low body fat %, have a 6 pack etc) and get called fat. You HAVE to be stick thin to be considered not fat here.
I personally say, who cares. Just be happy with your body. Nobody ever got a body that EVERYBODY around him/her were happy with. So why try to fit into what others thought was good looking eh?
I agree with this.
And being from the UK, I do not think it's considered normal to be fatter there at all, but I'm from London where every one aspires to be very thin. Apparently, in northern parts of the country the average sizes of people are bigger.
The most recent version of the UK "fat map" as the media calls it always makes for interesting viewing...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320561/Fat-map-Britain-revealed-East-Midlands-worst-place-obesity-related-hospital-admissions.html0 -
One word "YES" !!!!0
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I honestly do think that as a country (at least in the UK, being a member of said country) our standard of what is average and "normal" has become extremely sloppy. It's ridiculous, I find myself unable to shop at a lot of clothing shops because even their lowest sizes are huge on me, some shops are still ok, but I've found that some places (im looking at you tk maxx and new look) have ridiculously large clothing sizes in relation to what size they are saying they actually are. Also I've noticed that since I've lost the weight people have started expressing concern as they feel I am becoming "too thin". To be honest I just think that everyone else is becoming too fat.
It's impossible to judge the health of someone entirely by looking; or by their clothing size. I don't advocate people telling you you look ""too thin" but the fact that they're larger also doesn't make them "too fat." Whether or not I, for instance, am "too fat" is entirely between me and my doctor, and the rest of the world is NOT entitled to an opinion about it.
If you don't appreciate the concern being expressed, say, "I know you have my best interest at heart, and I appreciate that, but my doctor and I are watching to be sure I stay healthy." But in return you really should refrain from judging other people's weight too.0 -
I actually have a funny story about that. I was online dating for a while and on the profile described myself as 'curvy' (I was 5'8'' and 180 lbs then). I once went on a date with someone that was disappointed that I was 'normal' and not what he thought was 'curvy'. He suggested I should change my description to 'normal' or 'average'. Clearly, at 180 pounds I was overweight but apparently not enough 0
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Yes, and daily exercise is abnormal.
Yup, especially when you're not trying to lose weight. It's like, if I don't have 30+ pounds to lose, why am I trying to eat healthy or exercise?
LOL very true.
There has to be a "justification" for daily exercising such as weight loss. Simply enjoying it, that seems to be considered pathological. :laugh:
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i definitely think peoples concepts are skewed! i'm 5'2" and 138 (which is still overweight in america by 2-3lbs) but people tell me i'm 'tiny' and 'skinny' and dont need to lose weight. i stopped talking about weight loss to the people around me because, after losing 25lbs and getting to a size 4/6 no one thinks i need to lose more weight. i think as long as you are healthy, of mind and food intake, then your goal body is your goal body and it's no one's business to comment on it. you wouldnt walk up to a fat person and call them fat and tell them to stop eating so why would you walk up to a smaller person and tell them that they are skinny and need to eat...TOTALLY RUDE IMO!
Yeah, I get that. If a thin/fit person went up to an overweight/obese person and said "you don't need to eat," there would be an uprising!
Oh, what a crock of bull! Thin people do this all the time, then justify it by saying it's a health issue. You absolutely positively CANNOT tell how healthy a person is by looking.
It's 100% correct that what someone else is eating and how much they weigh is nobody else's business, and when threads like this start that is the only correct response. Each person's weight is between them and their doctor. You have to be pretty overweight before your weight alone makes you necessarily unhealthy and it is absolutely possible to be very unhealthy and also thin. So you CANNOT judge health from weight alone.0 -
I think that marketing also contributes to people feeling ok with their weight. Being an older person on the weight loss journey I have some skirts that I purchased 20 years ago that do not come close to zipping (yet). The tags say that they are size 10 or 12, but the purchases I'm making now (so that I have something to wear until these clothes fit) are a size 8. A ploy to make us feel smaller than we are and thus ok with ourselves. I can't wait til my old clothes fit, I'm interested in seeing what size my new clothes will be.0
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i definitely think peoples concepts are skewed! i'm 5'2" and 138 (which is still overweight in america by 2-3lbs) but people tell me i'm 'tiny' and 'skinny' and dont need to lose weight. i stopped talking about weight loss to the people around me because, after losing 25lbs and getting to a size 4/6 no one thinks i need to lose more weight. i think as long as you are healthy, of mind and food intake, then your goal body is your goal body and it's no one's business to comment on it. you wouldnt walk up to a fat person and call them fat and tell them to stop eating so why would you walk up to a smaller person and tell them that they are skinny and need to eat...TOTALLY RUDE IMO!
Yeah, I get that. If a thin/fit person went up to an overweight/obese person and said "you don't need to eat," there would be an uprising!
Oh, what a crock of bull! Thin people do this all the time, then justify it by saying it's a health issue. You absolutely positively CANNOT tell how healthy a person is by looking.
It's 100% correct that what someone else is eating and how much they weigh is nobody else's business, and when threads like this start that is the only correct response. Each person's weight is between them and their doctor. You have to be pretty overweight before your weight alone makes you necessarily unhealthy and it is absolutely possible to be very unhealthy and also thin. So you CANNOT judge health from weight alone.
That's fine if it's a private doctor.
When everyone else has to foot the bill then the private is also public.
I don't advocate random people walking up to random people telling them they're fat, but you have to appreciate that at least in the UK it's the public purse that pays for healthcare.0 -
What has become the norm is body shaming no matter what. I just hope we remember to be careful what we say in front of children and try to be kind to them. In their developmental stage it becomes easy to make them have a skewed view of weight. That's also why an alarming number of teenage girls suffer from Eating Disorders. I personally have learned to either say something nice or shut it after I saw my 14 year old cousin who was normal weight develop an eating disorder with the view 100lb is a good weight even at her height of 5'8. I learned the impact of the overly skinny celebrities. Seriously pictures and cameras do add weight. I have a degree in TV, they do add weight. When we went to a premiere in NY we saw a lot of celebs in person and they ere skinnier then the pictures and videos show. And models are still thin. Karlie Kloss and I are the same age and nearly same height. She weighs only about 115lbs, that is underweight by a lot. Low healthy is 132ish.
Bu back on topic our society has become where we think our opinion always matter. My Communication law and ethics professor said it best "You have the right to communicate but you also have the right to shut up". Sometimes we forget that words are very powerful weather we are fat shaming or skinny shaming. Try being nice. Your words might affect someone the wrong way.0 -
I think that marketing also contributes to people feeling ok with their weight. Being an older person on the weight loss journey I have some skirts that I purchased 20 years ago that do not come close to zipping (yet). The tags say that they are size 10 or 12, but the purchases I'm making now (so that I have something to wear until these clothes fit) are a size 8. A ploy to make us feel smaller than we are and thus ok with ourselves. I can't wait til my old clothes fit, I'm interested in seeing what size my new clothes will be.
And what is the financial benefit to the manufacturer of skirts that you feel good about yourself? Conspiracy theories make me crazy. No one conspiring to make you fat.0 -
well then you also have to advocate for heavier people telling the thin that they are two skinny. Being underweight has it's share of health problems and they believe you to be underweight. It has to be a two way street. So if it is public health care everyone gets to tell each other what they feel about their weights. Takes me to my previous post "you have the right to communicate but you also have the right to shut up" Not you though previous poster just the idea that in public purse health care.i definitely think peoples concepts are skewed! i'm 5'2" and 138 (which is still overweight in america by 2-3lbs) but people tell me i'm 'tiny' and 'skinny' and dont need to lose weight. i stopped talking about weight loss to the people around me because, after losing 25lbs and getting to a size 4/6 no one thinks i need to lose more weight. i think as long as you are healthy, of mind and food intake, then your goal body is your goal body and it's no one's business to comment on it. you wouldnt walk up to a fat person and call them fat and tell them to stop eating so why would you walk up to a smaller person and tell them that they are skinny and need to eat...TOTALLY RUDE IMO!
Yeah, I get that. If a thin/fit person went up to an overweight/obese person and said "you don't need to eat," there would be an uprising!
Oh, what a crock of bull! Thin people do this all the time, then justify it by saying it's a health issue. You absolutely positively CANNOT tell how healthy a person is by looking.
It's 100% correct that what someone else is eating and how much they weigh is nobody else's business, and when threads like this start that is the only correct response. Each person's weight is between them and their doctor. You have to be pretty overweight before your weight alone makes you necessarily unhealthy and it is absolutely possible to be very unhealthy and also thin. So you CANNOT judge health from weight alone.
That's fine if it's a private doctor.
When everyone else has to foot the bill then the private is also public.
I don't advocate random people walking up to random people telling them they're fat, but you have to appreciate that at least in the UK it's the public purse that pays for healthcare.0 -
I'm speaking about people from the UK here. I'm not sure about other countries, but this is something that i find interesting because i'm 5''10 and my weight is around 135-138 pounds, which is normal under the BMI but people tell me that i look anorexic and that i need to eat a cheeseburger. I don't think it's me that's too skinny, i think that people's concepts of normal have become too fat because now a days there are a lot of chubby/overweight people walking around and that's what people have gotten used to seeing so now it's considered normal to a lot of people.
The big problem is that people often use non-quantifiable means to decide if someone is "normal" or "fat". Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so are "normal", "anorexic", and "fat" if all you're using is the visual assessment. There's also the inherent weakness that "normal" is limited in that it means someone conforms to the norm. If the usual body people see or expect to see is heavier, then "normal" becomes heavier. If they expect to see a thinner body, such as with fashion models, then the normal becomes thinner for that group.0 -
the one thing I have learnt from reading this entire thread that it doesn't seem to matter whether we consider ourselves fat, obese, skinny, slim or whatever, we are more interested in discussing others issues with their bodies rather than our own.
And thank you to the poster who mentioned about the rudeness of 'you're too skinny' comments - I am so looking forward to the next one I get - the riposte of "How come you didn't say I was too fat when I was nearly 5 stone heavier then?" is just waiting.........0 -
I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
Exactly. ^0 -
My favorite kind of fat shaming is "concerned fat shaming". You know, when random folks comment on overweight people but insist it's not how they look that upsets them, it's genuine concern for their health. How dare they try to learn to accept and be happy as they are at a UK 16/US 12; what about their health?
Oh and one time someone told m to eat a burger and it hurt my feelings. How dare these overweight people lash out with even a fraction of the venom the world has heaped on to them; they're not allowed to be bitter and mean; after all I'm slim/athletic/skinny and they should aspire to be more like me because I am closer to the ideal.
Who cares if being fat is more acceptable? Are fat people making you fat? Making your kid fat? Eating all your food? Stealing your jobs or otherwise inhibiting your life in some manner beyond making you look upon their overweight forms? As far a I'm concerned it just means more clothes available in my size; sounds like a win to me.
So this. ^0 -
Dude - I was 190 lbs at 5'10" with 20% BF which is a healthy range, but still overweight on the BMI chart, hence why BMI is totally useless. I could never be 138 lbs without dropping significant muscle mass, which would be unhealthy to do.I'm speaking about people from the UK here. I'm not sure about other countries, but this is something that i find interesting because i'm 5''10 and my weight is around 135-138 pounds, which is normal under the BMI but people tell me that i look anorexic and that i need to eat a cheeseburger. I don't think it's me that's too skinny, i think that people's concepts of normal have become too fat because now a days there are a lot of chubby/overweight people walking around and that's what people have gotten used to seeing so now it's considered normal to a lot of people.
I do agree that there's a lot of fat acceptance these days.0 -
i definitely think peoples concepts are skewed! i'm 5'2" and 138 (which is still overweight in america by 2-3lbs) but people tell me i'm 'tiny' and 'skinny' and dont need to lose weight. i stopped talking about weight loss to the people around me because, after losing 25lbs and getting to a size 4/6 no one thinks i need to lose more weight. i think as long as you are healthy, of mind and food intake, then your goal body is your goal body and it's no one's business to comment on it. you wouldnt walk up to a fat person and call them fat and tell them to stop eating so why would you walk up to a smaller person and tell them that they are skinny and need to eat...TOTALLY RUDE IMO!
Yeah, I get that. If a thin/fit person went up to an overweight/obese person and said "you don't need to eat," there would be an uprising!
Oh, what a crock of bull! Thin people do this all the time, then justify it by saying it's a health issue. You absolutely positively CANNOT tell how healthy a person is by looking.
It's 100% correct that what someone else is eating and how much they weigh is nobody else's business, and when threads like this start that is the only correct response. Each person's weight is between them and their doctor. You have to be pretty overweight before your weight alone makes you necessarily unhealthy and it is absolutely possible to be very unhealthy and also thin. So you CANNOT judge health from weight alone.
That's fine if it's a private doctor.
When everyone else has to foot the bill then the private is also public.
I don't advocate random people walking up to random people telling them they're fat, but you have to appreciate that at least in the UK it's the public purse that pays for healthcare.
So what? Or is everything in another person's life your business because it might affect "the public purse?" Is it your business whether or not someone else wears sunscreen? Whether or not they ride a motorcycle or scooter? Whether or not they look both ways before they cross the street? Whether or not they choose to have children? Women who have never had a child have a MUCH higher risk of female cancers. Should all who choose not to have children be shamed because "the public purse" may have to cover their cancers?
Another persons weight and personal habits are NOT your business, "public purse" or no.0 -
I would hardly say she was "fat" :noway:in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!
That women on the special k advert is not fat. And as for bashing plus size models....its not like they are fat.....they are just bigger than the usual models. I think they are sexy but everyone has their own opinions i guess 0 -
You misunderstood what I said. Someone's obesity may not be anyone's business but the SUBJECT of obesity is a public health crisis, it's a legitimate topic of debate in a country where healthcare is funded by the tax payer!0
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I am totally ambivalent when it comes to 'normal.' I see people on programmes like 'Supersize vs. Superskinny' and think "That skinny has a great figure, she doesn't look too bad" then realise that's INSANE and she's unhealthily thin, but then I also see a lot of bigger people and think they're 'normal' as well.
Our society is very dissonant about weight and body image. We are surround by images of stick thin celebs and models on the one hand, and fat friends/family/society on the other.Both are presented as 'normal' in their different settings, but it leads to a weird state in my brain where nothing is normal and everything is normal.
:sick:
I've confused myself.0 -
I rather suspect it's actually that our idea of 'ideal weight/body shape' has become too thin. The 'ideal' displayed by Hollywood, the music and print media industries is actually representative of an underweight or very-low-range 'normal' BMI*, in most cases (I'm speaking predominantly of females here), with a very low body fat percentage (unhealthily low for women of childbearing age in many cases) and reflects (again, in general) a physique that is only physically-achievable by less than 5% of the population.
The 'ideal' figures of most of the last century were much, much closer to the 'average' female form, and were achievable or at least emulatable in a healthy way by more women, thus the contrast between 'ideal' and 'realistic' was much less startling. Compare celebrities of the past such as Ava Gardner, Sophia Loren, Jayne Russell, Doris Day or Marilyn Monroe to Reese Witherspoon, Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway et al, and this becomes evident very quickly. Even a young Meryl Streep or Diane Keaton was much closer to 'average' in size than the current crop of ultra-thin actresses.
*Which is not a good measure of individual health, but this isn't the place to go into that!
Exactly. ^
Yup. And then it's ex post facto justified as a concern for health and/or the public cost of this supposed unhealth.0 -
Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...0
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I would hardly say she was "fat" :noway:in the uk even the "special k " advert girl is now fat and wearing a one piece !!!
That women on the special k advert is not fat. And as for bashing plus size models....its not like they are fat.....they are just bigger than the usual models. I think they are sexy but everyone has their own opinions i guess
Mmmmm... yeah! Most of the so-called plus-sized models are VERY sexy.0 -
YES0
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Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...
Which cancer am I protected from because I have no had children?0 -
(In the US) I feel like we have gone from having normal body image (up to the 1960s) to too thin (70s, 80s, 90s) to celebrating being overweight (American TV shows "Mike & Molly" and the BBW movement). Ideally, we'd all be comfortable in our bodies AND at a healthy weight, not one or the other! Being obese is nothing to celebrate, as is an eating disorder or being too thin.
IMHO, a lot of "too thin" or "too fat" is more complicated than a height and weight. It's how active you are, your frame, muscle mass, and how good you feel about yourself. But for sure, 5 or 10lbs on either side of an ideal weight isn't too big of a deal... it's when you get in to the 40, 50lbs either way that it becomes a problem!0 -
Ps your analogy with female cancers is rather rubbish as not procreating provides protection from certain cancers as well as increasing the risk of others...
Which cancer am I protected from because I have no had children?
It's called Chronic Bratatosis Disease. It's a cancer that attacks your brain due to a non-stop onslaught of nagging, whining and defiance. It's not fatal, it can't kill you but it can drive you crazy.0 -
I certainly think so. I was out in the sun on Monday - a really lovely, warm day in my neck of the woods - and was quietly astounded at how many fat people they were. This comes from a former fatty. But I would say a good 80% of the people I saw were at the very least overweight, with some being so large they couldn't walk properly.
I often get told not to lose more weight because I'll look "skinny", or "anorexic". I am actually borderline overweight, according to the BMI, and very far from skinny indeed.
My friend has a six year old sister, and there's a worryingly high number of fat children in her class. When I was in school - which wasn't THAT long ago in the scheme of things - there was one token fat kid, and it was me. And, compared to some of the children I've seen, I wasn't anywhere near as big.
I'm all for body confidence and acceptance of all shapes and sizes, but I sometimes think that things have swung too much the other way. Body shapes are being normalised, and that's not necessarily a good thing when it's impacting on people's health. Comfort zones are very, very dangerous.
This exactly! I was the token fat kid as well... nowadays it seems like there's the token "skinny clique" (talking abt an older age group, not 6yr olds) and everyone else is chubby!0 -
You misunderstood what I said. Someone's obesity may not be anyone's business but the SUBJECT of obesity is a public health crisis, it's a legitimate topic of debate in a country where healthcare is funded by the tax payer!
It is NOT a "public health crisis." Remember back in the 1990s when they told us of the first generation of kids whose life expectancy was NOT longer than their parents? Supposedly because of obesity? Turns out they were wrong. That generation will live longer than their parents too. This is an imaginary "crisis" and unless you're also talking about people wearing sunscreen and riding motorcycles and scooters and every other thing associated with increased risk of illness and death, it's just fat shaming.0 -
I disagree most plus size models do not have the curvy Brazilian type of feminine body with thick sculpted glute/hips and good waist to hip ratio.0
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