7 Reasons why women should lift heavy

KBjimAZ

Oh honestly, you're just wanting to bicker about it and feigning curiosity about lifting. If you don't want to lift heavy then why not get busy not doing it? Why come in here and be a downer when you're not even interested? What's the payoff?

I don't want to lift heavy. I don't enjoy lifting at all. But if there is evidence that lifting heavier actually provides more protection against bone density than lifting 15-25 lbs then I might consider it, whether I enjoyed it or not. But I've never seen any, and still haven't despite the agressive replies telling me it exists. And an internet search has provided none. I don't think there is any.

Wolff's Law....an widely accepted reference on this subject.

Wolff's law is a theory developed by the German anatomist and surgeon Julius Wolff (1836–1902) in the 19th century that states that bone in a healthy person or animal will adapt to the loads under which it is placed. If loading on a particular bone increases, the bone will remodel itself over time to become stronger to resist that sort of loading. The internal architecture of the trabeculae undergoes adaptive changes, followed by secondary changes to the external cortical portion of the bone, perhaps becoming thicker as a result. The inverse is true as well: if the loading on a bone decreases, the bone will become weaker due to turnover, it is less metabolically costly to maintain and there is no stimulus for continued remodeling that is required to maintain bone mass.

keepongoingnmw

If you keep feeding the Trolls they will keep coming back for more!!!!!

Regarding the "negative effects" of weightlifting for women....if you expierence them, see a doctor don't ask and take medical advice from anonymous strangers on the internet. In another thread a woman said she was spotting after heavy lifting, it could be nothing, it could be something don't ignore things because strangers tell you they are okay.

carry on..... interesting topic as I am trying to decide where to start with heavy lifting.

lnewcombe91

I love the power rack. I supplement with protein and am in the gym 6 times a week. At first the thought of doing weights was intimaidating but as I started to progress it became more about the challenge and the progress than about what other people thought of me.

The feeling when you squat more than your bodyweight is incredible.

Even with all of the supplements and the time spent in the gym I'm no she-hulk. I'm toned and I feel so much better for it. People notice too.

I got a lot of advice from Bodybuilding.com about weights for women, then i realised there shouldn't be any difference between male and female training programmes.

SanteMulberry

From Weighttraining.com under the topic, "Can everyone benefit from weight training?" and "Does it increase testosterone levels?"

"...Women can suffer from missed or irregular periods, weight gain, acne, thinning hair and more. Men, on the other hand, benefit greatly from high levels of testosterone..."

I don't think they were discouraging women from weight lifting but I think they were apprising them of the possibility that it could produce some changes.

You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.weighttraining.com/faq/does-exercise-and-weight-training-raise-testosterone-levels

I wonder if the fellow who was recommending that women not lift over 25 pounds was thinking of the testosterone issue (if there is one) when he made that recommendation?

That is an article on a weight training site with no source. Not to say is completely false, but plenty of women lift heavy and don't have any of those issues. Some people are already wary or lifting heavy, and I can tell you from experience the benefits far out weight any alleged problems. I just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea from an unsubstantiated blog post.

Yeah, please carefully consider the sources when you share something entirely negative about women and weight lifting.

As for the guy in the original article being discussed, he was recommending women not lift above 25 lbs because he is a tool, period, and is probably trying to drum up business for his gym. Many women are very scared of lifting heavy weights, as evidenced by pretty much any lifting thread on MFP, so by saying "not over 25 lbs" he will having women sighing with relief that they don't have to actually lift anything "big" and don't have to worry about getting strong (and turning into MEN OMG). He doesn't have any sort of secret weightlifting knowledge that the rest of us who lift are too dumb to figure out, I can guarantee that.

There are many women on MFP with PCOS and other conditions that come with hormonal imbalance. Lifting heavy weights is actually VERY helpful for us, even if we do have an abundance of testosterone. It does NOT make us "bulk up", grow hair, turn into men, etc.

Lifting heavy has helped me lose fat, which in turn helps ease the symptoms of PCOS. Lifting heavy has also regulated my cycle (no more missed or irregular periods), and it has also helped increase insulin sensitivity (I have insulin resistance, also somewhat common with PCOS). My hormones are balanced like never before at this point. I do not suffer from acne these days, though I certainly have in the past.

That's really reassuring to know, Lupercalia. Thanks.

SanteMulberry

From Weighttraining.com under the topic, "Can everyone benefit from weight training?" and "Does it increase testosterone levels?"

"...Women can suffer from missed or irregular periods, weight gain, acne, thinning hair and more. Men, on the other hand, benefit greatly from high levels of testosterone..."

I don't think they were discouraging women from weight lifting but I think they were apprising them of the possibility that it could produce some changes.

You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.weighttraining.com/faq/does-exercise-and-weight-training-raise-testosterone-levels

I wonder if the fellow who was recommending that women not lift over 25 pounds was thinking of the testosterone issue (if there is one) when he made that recommendation?

I doubt it. Sounds like sexism to me. i.e. people who think women are fundametally weak and that exertion is dangerous for women...

How did the human race survive if heavy exertion like lifting heavy things screwed up women's menstrual cycles? If those symptoms result from following a heavy lifting programme, then how did humans breed in the palaeolithc era and every other era since then where women would have had to do any kind of heavy work? Even being a housewife before the invention of mod cons like hoovers, washing machines etc, women would have had to exert themselves considerably just keeping a house clean.

Weight training does not increase women's testosterone levels enough to produce the symptoms on the list. Additionally, women are supposed to have testosterone in their system, and if it's too low (i.e. lower than it should be for a woman) that can cause health issues . I know a lot of women who have noticed an increase in libido and general health from lifting heavy weights, because it raised their testosterone levels a little. If you look up what happens in a woman's body if her ovaries are removed, a large number of health complications from that are actually due to the fact that she no longer has testosterone in her system. This is produced by the ovaries. IMO there's probably more risk to women from having too low testosterone levels than there is risk from the slightly elevated testosterone levels due to heavy lifting. Massively increased testosterone levels are not good for women, but weight lifting will not increase them by that much.

Also, I've seen the posts of several women on this site who have PCOS (a condition that causes too high testosterone levels and the symptoms on the list in that article) who have posted that their PCOS symptoms got somewhat better, not worse, as a result of lifting heavy, i.e. it seems to have helped to regulate the endocrine system, rather than causing any hormone level to be outside the healthy range.

And one last thing, menstrual disturbances can be caused by undereating or having a too low body fat level, if a woman who is into heavy lifting is having this problem (i.e. menstrual disturbances and loss of hair), this is far more likely to be the cause than testosterone. This is due to the reproductive system producing less female hormones in response to not having enough nutrition to sustain a pregnancy. Her testosterone levels would also be low, and men who eat too little also suffer from low testosterone, which leads to a low sperm count. Low testosterone levels are bad for men and women, and just because women naturally have a lot less testosterone than men, it does not mean that any small increase in testosterone is going to be a bad thing.

I think you are probably right and that is a reassuring thought. Thanks.

bcattoes

But if there is evidence that lifting heavier actually provides more protection against bone density than lifting 15-25 lbs then I might consider it

No you won't. You've been here for 11,448 posts. It would be literally impossible to miss the evidence you request.

You just don't want to hear it.

Don't lift. That's fine. But there's no need to troll the rest of the forum with excuses and faux interest.

I do lift. I never said I didn't. And in 11,000+ posts (or 50+ years being alive, or 30+ years in healthcare) I've never seen one article, study or other evidence that only lifting progressively heavy will prevent bone loss. I'm not trolling, I'm asking someone (anyone) to back up these statements. If they can.

So if you can provide it, please do. Otherwise just keep the insults coming. It's very convincing.

I agree that you're trolling--you come into many threads on lifting and attempt to derail them with your inane questions. Do your own research--I'm assuming you have access to all sorts of wonderful medical journals since you work in health care, and then perhaps you could start your own thread asking these questions rather than being disruptive.

My questions are asking people to back up statements in this thread which I believe to be untrue, so this seems the appropriate place.

All I've gotten is more insults, and still no information to back up statements.

jonnythan

But if there is evidence that lifting heavier actually provides more protection against bone density than lifting 15-25 lbs then I might consider it

No you won't. You've been here for 11,448 posts. It would be literally impossible to miss the evidence you request.

You just don't want to hear it.

Don't lift. That's fine. But there's no need to troll the rest of the forum with excuses and faux interest.

I do lift. I never said I didn't. And in 11,000+ posts (or 50+ years being alive, or 30+ years in healthcare) I've never seen one article, study or other evidence that only lifting progressively heavy will prevent bone loss. I'm not trolling, I'm asking someone (anyone) to back up these statements. If they can.

So if you can provide it, please do. Otherwise just keep the insults coming. It's very convincing.

I agree that you're trolling--you come into many threads on lifting and attempt to derail them with your inane questions. Do your own research--I'm assuming you have access to all sorts of wonderful medical journals since you work in health care, and then perhaps you could start your own thread asking these questions rather than being disruptive.

My questions are asking people to back up statements in this thread which I believe to be untrue, so this seems the appropriate place.

All I've gotten is more insults, and still no information to back up statements.

Your questions and attacks are an attempt to rationalize your own decision not to lift.

You do not lift and have no interest whatsoever in lifting. Your entire aim, whether you realize it or not, is to justify and defend that position for yourself. You're obviously insecure in your decision not to lift, which appears to me to be an admission that you know how beneficial it is. You just don't want to, and you want to feel good about your decision not to.

And despite over 11,000 posts you still haven't found any successful knowledgeable people telling you it's OK.

dietcokeg

i adore anyone that lifts! i am usually the only woman in my gym that lifts, i get some weird looks from the men sometimes but i get the odd trainer high-fiveing me! i love lifting and the good it has done to my body speaks for itself!

bcattoes

Your questions and attacks are an attempt to rationalize your own decision not to lift.

You do not lift and have no interest whatsoever in lifting. Your entire aim, whether you realize it or not, is to justify and defend that position for yourself. You're obviously insecure in your decision not to lift, which appears to me to be an admission that you know how beneficial it is. You just don't want to, and you want to feel good about your decision not to.

And despite over 11,000 posts you still haven't found any successful knowledgeable people telling you it's OK.

What attacks have I made? And I do lift, so no need to rationalize why I don't. My entire aim is for someone to back up what they posted. Period.

icyeyes317

I guess I am gonna get super bulky since I was bench pressing 75 lbs this morning. Oops.

(I know it is not a lot, but I am just starting again).

Ophidion

bump

Lupercalia

i adore anyone that lifts! i am usually the only woman in my gym that lifts, i get some weird looks from the men sometimes but i get the odd trainer high-fiveing me! i love lifting and the good it has done to my body speaks for itself!

Yay, good for you! I'm usually the only woman lifting at my gym on the days/times I'm there, too. I'd like to think there are other women lifting at my gym, and that we just have different schedules.

I got some weird looks at first, and I'm pretty sure that was because I was an overweight woman, but whatever. Nobody was rude or anything like that.

I kept showing up and lifting, and now I think I'm just part of the free weights area landscape. :laugh:

libertychoury

I didn't want to go through and quote all the other posts and then forget what I am wanting to say...but if you're looking for information on why women should lift heavy, and the benefits for women who do, I have just picked up New Rules of Lifting for Women and the author is very good at detailing the reasons with loads of studies to back them up. To be honest, that stuff bores me a little. I don't really need to read the reasons why, I can look at women who lift heavy and I can see exactly why I should be! I had already started lifting myself about 3 months ago, but I just thought lifting heavy meant lift as heavy as you can to complete 3 sets of 10 reps each. But I wasn't paying attention to trying to lift anything heavier than what I could successfully pick up. So I was just getting better at the 3 sets, more efficient. But not stronger. The book has detailed that I should be able to move forward in the weight in order to gain muscle mass. I'm really excited to move forward in my training because in what I have done I have seen physical changes in my body and I look better than I did, but I know I can look better! And feel better...but that's besides the point for me, since I'm a visual person

3laine75

I agree with the premise of the rest of the stuff on there, but I am so unbelievably sick of the idea that "lifting heavy" for women means doing curls with pastel dumbbells. The dude owns a gym. How can he fail to mention powerlifting and O-lifting? Surely he knows that women (seriously hot women) do that too.

Yeah, he owns a gym and he wants women to come in. If you haven't noticed, telling women to get under a 45-lb bar and squat with it doesn't usually go over well.

you're obviously telling the wrong women.

yup, all the personal trainers at my gym try to talk you out of using the barbell rather than critiquing my form like i asked them. but its okay for the fat dude who's sweating buckets and looks like he's going to have a heart attack. not saying this guy shouldn't btw, just that why shouldn't i?

these guys are the reason i feel i have to go train between 1 and 4am - cheers

jonnythan

I agree with the premise of the rest of the stuff on there, but I am so unbelievably sick of the idea that "lifting heavy" for women means doing curls with pastel dumbbells. The dude owns a gym. How can he fail to mention powerlifting and O-lifting? Surely he knows that women (seriously hot women) do that too.

Yeah, he owns a gym and he wants women to come in. If you haven't noticed, telling women to get under a 45-lb bar and squat with it doesn't usually go over well.

you're obviously telling the wrong women.

yup, all the personal trainers at my gym try to talk you out of using the barbell rather than critiquing my form like i asked them. but its okay for the fat dude who's sweating buckets and looks like he's going to have a heart attack. not saying this guy shouldn't btw, just that why shouldn't i?

these guys are the reason i feel i have to go train between 1 and 4am - cheers

I think you read something in my post that I didn't say.

I absolutely encourage women to lift heavy. Look at my posting history and you will see that I recommend heavy barbell training to virtually everyone.

However, from a business perspective, telling women to do squats and deadlifts simply doesn't get you very far. Relatively few women want to do that or are willing to do that. You can get more butts in your gym if you tell women they don't need to do that and can just do some Jillian Michaels BS with pink dumbbells.

bcattoes

I didn't want to go through and quote all the other posts and then forget what I am wanting to say...but if you're looking for information on why women should lift heavy, and the benefits for women who do, I have just picked up New Rules of Lifting for Women and the author is very good at detailing the reasons with loads of studies to back them up. To be honest, that stuff bores me a little. I don't really need to read the reasons why, I can look at women who lift heavy and I can see exactly why I should be! I had already started lifting myself about 3 months ago, but I just thought lifting heavy meant lift as heavy as you can to complete 3 sets of 10 reps each. But I wasn't paying attention to trying to lift anything heavier than what I could successfully pick up. So I was just getting better at the 3 sets, more efficient. But not stronger. The book has detailed that I should be able to move forward in the weight in order to gain muscle mass. I'm really excited to move forward in my training because in what I have done I have seen physical changes in my body and I look better than I did, but I know I can look better! And feel better...but that's besides the point for me, since I'm a visual person

No, if the question you refer to is the one I keep asking, it wasn't about the benefits of lifting heavy. It's whether one has to lift consistently heavier in order to prevent bone loss and specifically whether lifting greater than 25 lbs weights is necessary.

_chiaroscuro

No, if the question you refer to is the one I keep asking, it wasn't about the benefits of lifting heavy. It's whether one has to lift consistently heavier in order to prevent bone loss and specifically whether lifting greater than 25 lbs weights is necessary.

See the results section in particular. To be within that percentage of your 1 RM, and to see the benefits, you need more than 25 lbs.

Effect of weighted exercises on bone mineral density in post menopausal women. A systematic review.
Zehnacker CH, Bemis-Dougherty A.
Source
Physical Therapy Consults, Frederick, MD 21701, USA. doctorcz@comcast.net
Abstract
PURPOSE:
Osteoporosis is both preventable and treatable with exercise playing an important role in osteogenesis. The purpose of this systematic review was to determine which specific exercise programs utilizing weights were effective in maintaining or increasing bone mineral density (BMD) in postmenopausal women.
METHODS:
A computerized search of the MEDLINE, CINAHL, EMBASE, PEDro, and Science Citation databases was conducted for the period 1990 through February 2005. The search was performed using English language-only keyword searches using MESH terms osteoporosis, postmenopausal, exercise, weight training, and bone mineral density. A total of 20 articles was critically evaluated for the quality of an intervention study using the criteria developed by MacDermid. An expert on the topic was asked to review the list of articles for omissions.
RESULTS:
The review revealed evidence to support the effectiveness of weight training exercises to increase BMD in postmenopausal women. The increases in BMD were site-specific and required high loading with a training intensity of 70% to 90% of 1 RM for 8 to 12 repetitions of 2 to 3 sets performed over one year duration.
CONCLUSION:
Weighted exercises can help in maintaining BMD in postmenopausal women and increasing BMD of the spine and hip in women with osteopenia and osteoporosis. The exercise program must be incorporated into a lifestyle change and be lifelong due to the chronic nature of bone loss in older women.

libertychoury

No, if the question you refer to is the one I keep asking, it wasn't about the benefits of lifting heavy. It's whether one has to lift consistently heavier in order to prevent bone loss and specifically whether lifting greater than 25 lbs weights is necessary.

See the results section in particular. To be within that percentage of your 1 RM, and to see the benefits, you need more than 25 lbs.

Effect of weighted exercises on bone mineral density in post menopausal women. A systematic review.
Zehnacker CH, Bemis-Dougherty A.
Source
Physical Therapy Consults, Frederick, MD 21701, USA. doctorcz@comcast.net
Abstract
PURPOSE:
Osteoporosis is both preventable and treatable with exercise playing an important role in osteogenesis. The purpose of this systematic review was to determine which specific exercise programs utilizing weights were effective in maintaining or increasing bone mineral density (BMD) in postmenopausal women.
METHODS:
A computerized search of the MEDLINE, CINAHL, EMBASE, PEDro, and Science Citation databases was conducted for the period 1990 through February 2005. The search was performed using English language-only keyword searches using MESH terms osteoporosis, postmenopausal, exercise, weight training, and bone mineral density. A total of 20 articles was critically evaluated for the quality of an intervention study using the criteria developed by MacDermid. An expert on the topic was asked to review the list of articles for omissions.
RESULTS:
The review revealed evidence to support the effectiveness of weight training exercises to increase BMD in postmenopausal women. The increases in BMD were site-specific and required high loading with a training intensity of 70% to 90% of 1 RM for 8 to 12 repetitions of 2 to 3 sets performed over one year duration.
CONCLUSION:
Weighted exercises can help in maintaining BMD in postmenopausal women and increasing BMD of the spine and hip in women with osteopenia and osteoporosis. The exercise program must be incorporated into a lifestyle change and be lifelong due to the chronic nature of bone loss in older women.

By "benefits" I was referring to the book because the author does mention the increase in bone density specifically in post menopausal women. I don't have the book at hand so I can't recite the study or quote the book but I just read it yesterday. I personally think its logical that lifting heavier than 25 lbs, if you CAN will help with bone density because you will build muscle and make your bones stronger. It doesn't need to be 25lbs if you can not lift that much, but the point of lifting is to continue to lift heavier, if your aim in lifting is to build muscle, and in turn build bone density. If you can lift 25lbs like its nothing, you are just efficient at that and you will not progress doing 30 reps or even 100. You will just get more efficient at lifting just that much.

Just to comment, I respect that you have 30 years in healthcare, but quite honestly I don't believe that working in healthcare makes one knowledgable in every aspect of fitness. Maybe I've just met a lot of idiot doctors but I honestly feel like they lack logic when it comes to the more primal functions of the human body. They don't know enough about nutrition, exercise, human relationships, reproduction, etc, but they sure know a lot about prescribing medicine...

dotknott

I'm a little confused by this. Is there or is there not evidence that one much go beyond 25 lbs.

Yes there is. Now let's move on.

Can you provide links or reference? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I've just never read this in any medical recommendation or journal and I'm curious. The recommendation is always just "do resistance exercise".

I'm 20+ years past the age where bone loss typically starts and I've never lifted more than 25 lbs, and I rarely lift that much. I don't enjoy lifting and enjoy lifting very heavy even less so I've been a "more reps" person. And until joining MFP it never really occurred to me to do squats and lunges and certainly not with weights. Though I have always been active and used my legs a lot (walking, jogging, biking, skating, step aerobics, hiking, etc. and only very recently plyometrics) I have no bone loss according to my DEXA scan.

I realize that I'm just an n of one, but it's kind of the one that matters most to me.

Well I know for one thing I love not having to depend on my husband to pick up every little thing that looks like it might be 50 pounds or more lol Why not you do your own research it sounds like you need the bare bone basics of anatomy which would be a very very long and boring conversation. You know how your muscles are made right? You know about stress test and how putting pressure on your bones can actually make them stronger and studies have proven it increases bone mass. There are a lot of books and topics on this subject Good luck researching

Having been unmarried for most of my adult life, I've grown pretty adept at picking things up on my own. It always shocks me that most women apparently couldn't pick things up before they started going to the gym. And 30+ years in healthcare has given me enough of the basics on anatomy. And in all that time, I've never seen a medical recommendation that one must lift to failure to prevent bone loss, despite have been involved in a fairly large osteoporosis study last year..

So, I'm going to assume that the progressively passive aggressive tone of replies means there isn't any evidence that going beyond 25 lbs or working to failure is necessary to preserve bone.

Okay I'll pick this one up..

The CDC recommends "To gain health benefits, muscle-strengthening activities need to be done to the point where it's hard for you to do another repetition without help. A repetition is one complete movement of an activity, like lifting a weight or doing a sit-up. Try to do 8—12 repetitions per activity that count as 1 set. Try to do at least 1 set of muscle-strengthening activities, but to gain even more benefits, do 2 or 3 sets."

so.. muscle-strengthening activities need to be done to the point where it's hard for you to do another rep. Do reps of 8-12 per set. Assuming you can't get to the point where it's hard to do another rep what should you do? Quit?

Journal of Bone and Mineral Research
Volume 10, Issue 4, pages 574–585, April 1995
A two-year program of aerobics and weight training enhances bone mineral density of young women

This study had women 20-35 split into 4 groups. 2 years of exercise + supplemental calcium on BMD. Subjects were randomly assigned to 1 of 4 groups: weight training, weight training + calcium, stretching, or stretching + calcium. The weight training group attended three 1-hr classes a week. Weight training emphasized large muscles of the hip and spine with exercises such as bent-knee deadlift and cleans from the floor. Subjects were encouraged to increase the load lifted throughout the 2-yr program. Aerobic exercise (high impact and aerobic bench stepping) was performed once a week at an intensity of 70-85% of HR max.
After 2 years, only the weight training groups had a significant increase in BMD of the spine.

I've been able to find quite a few studies that show that show a correlation between increase in bone density and strength training at 60-80% of 1 RM. In elderly and post-menepausal women this tends to not increase bone density, but has shown to slow or decrease reductions in bone mass in long term studies. Now you'll notice I haven't found anything that limits the weight to 25 lbs, because we're working with 1 rep max, and not WOMEN WHO LIFT 40lbs INCREASED BONE MASS BY 2.3% VS. WOMEN WHO ONLY LIFTED 20 lbs. So no, we can't rule out that only lifting 25 lbs will give you the same percentage increased you'd see at 40 lbs, but you're not taking into account the 1rep max.

IF 25 lbs is 80% of your 1 rep max, fine, you could, long term see the increase (or a slowing in decrease) but I doubt that your 1 rep max is not increasing over that 2 year period.

NOW.. Since you refuse to believe that lifting anything more than 25lbs isn't any more beneficial than lifting 25 lbs, I'd like you to back that up with evidence.

3laine75

I agree with the premise of the rest of the stuff on there, but I am so unbelievably sick of the idea that "lifting heavy" for women means doing curls with pastel dumbbells. The dude owns a gym. How can he fail to mention powerlifting and O-lifting? Surely he knows that women (seriously hot women) do that too.

Yeah, he owns a gym and he wants women to come in. If you haven't noticed, telling women to get under a 45-lb bar and squat with it doesn't usually go over well.

you're obviously telling the wrong women.

yup, all the personal trainers at my gym try to talk you out of using the barbell rather than critiquing my form like i asked them. but its okay for the fat dude who's sweating buckets and looks like he's going to have a heart attack. not saying this guy shouldn't btw, just that why shouldn't i?

these guys are the reason i feel i have to go train between 1 and 4am - cheers

I think you read something in my post that I didn't say.

I absolutely encourage women to lift heavy. Look at my posting history and you will see that I recommend heavy barbell training to virtually everyone.

However, from a business perspective, telling women to do squats and deadlifts simply doesn't get you very far. Relatively few women want to do that or are willing to do that. You can get more butts in your gym if you tell women they don't need to do that and can just do some Jillian Michaels BS with pink dumbbells.

no, i get that you weren't having a go - i just think in general the guys who run the places shouldn't try to palm you off if you want to go down this road. i think a lot of girls who go with the intention of lifting heavy will be put off by some wee *kitten* who's done a six month course who tells you to bench 10k on the machine 10-20 reps and that that will get you better results than what you actually want to do.