"You can't build muscle on a calorie deficit"

carolmcgov

This is one of many things I have heard on the forums, is there something I'm not getting about this statement, for example maybe you can't get "bulky" lifting weights on a calorie deficit? What does it actually mean. Are you guys litrally suggesting you cant increase muscle while on a calorie defecit and if so are you suggesting there is then no point lifting weights while on a calorie defecit?
Im pretty sure that is muscle in my photo there but it mustn't be because I've been eating at 1200 calories. If I listened to some people on the forums I shouldn't have reached my goal weight either because my body should have "clung" on to all my fat due to "starvation mode"
Also I'm not hear to suggest anyone eats at 1200, it suited me as I was at a healthy BMI to begin with. Im not suggesting its for everyone!

Johlawrence

This is one of many things I have heard on the forums, is there something I'm not getting about this statement, for example maybe you can't get "bulky" lifting weights on a calorie deficit? What does it actually mean. Are you guys litrally suggesting you cant increase muscle while on a calorie defecit and if so are you suggesting there is then no point lifting weights while on a calorie defecit?
Im pretty sure that is muscle in my photo there but it mustn't be because I've been eating at 1200 calories. If I listened to some people on the forums I shouldn't have reached my goal weight either because my body should have "clung" on to all my fat due to "starvation mode"
Also I'm not hear to suggest anyone eats at 1200, it suited me as I was at a healthy BMI to begin with. Im not suggesting its for everyone!

I LOVE your post!!! Thank you!!! FInally!!! I am at/under 1200 and I am doing great. I am also doing some lifting and planning to add in more as I go. Love your pics!!! I'd love to know what all you have done! You look great!!!

erinsueburns

You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Some people can build muscle while on a deficit. Those who are new to lifting might build a small amount. For the most part we lift while dieting to preserve muscle and gain strength.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html



And as for 1200, why would anyone want to eat that low? If I can lose weight eating 2000 calories, you bet I'm going to eat 2000 calories, not 1200.

Brownsbacker4evr

I always just thought that term referred to building mass and actually getting bigger. Because you can have muscles and be thin, you just wont actually see a ton of mass. But not too many women go for that anyways.

Im no nutritionist or expert, but that was always what I thought. Correct me if I am wrong.

stumblinthrulife

The point is that fuel is needed to create muscle.

By eating at a deficit, you are exhausting all that fuel just in the process of living, so the body has none left for niceties like building non-essential muscle. Your body's concern is survival, not how good you look on the beach, so it will not expend precious energy on non-essential muscle.

There are three things happening to you -

1. You are losing fat, which is revealing muscle.
2. A small degree of 'newbie gains' which are possible at a deficit.
3. A small degree of water retention in healing muscle. i.e. a 'pump'

Weight loss = body in a catabolic state
Muscle gain = body in an anabolic state

Catabolic and anabolic are opposite. While many professionals believe it is possible to rapidly switch between the two states in order to bulk and cut simultaneously, this is out of reach of most of us who aren't highly trained athletes with a team of trained coaches and nutritionists behind us.

bonitacash08

You didn't "build" that muscle. You just maintained it. To actually grow/build/acquire/whatever term you want to use muscle, you have to eat at a SURPLUS. That muscle in your arm was already there you just removed fat that was covering it.

When people recommend lifting while eating at a deficit it is to do exactly what you did, albeit in a less drastic method, to preserve the muscle they already have. Everybody has a six pack and ripped biceps underneath their layer of fat. Weight lifting keeps it from disintegrating while we try to lose fat.

I must add, feeling "fine" eating 1200 calories isn't the only indicator. Are you sleepy? Are you irritable? Do you feel fatigued? Can you make it through your workouts? Most importantly, how long have you only been eating 1200? For 2-4 weeks, of course it's fine. You'll lose a lot of water weight. But in the long run, as EVERYONE will tell you, it's not sustainable. You might not feel hungry. But you will feel something that tells you it isn't right.

SideSteel

Some people can build muscle while on a deficit. Those who are new to lifting might build a small amount. For the most part we lift while dieting to preserve muscle and gain strength.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html



And as for 1200, why would anyone want to eat that low? If I can lose weight eating 2000 calories, you bet I'm going to eat 2000 calories, not 1200.

^ Everyone curious about this should just read those links.

wheelsjad

I believe you can strengthen the muscles that you already have while eating at a calorie deficit. I also believe you can also remove the fat that hides the muscles while eating at a deficit, giving your muscles a more pronounced look. I believe that most people would have a hard time gaining muscle mass while eating at a deficit.

GetSoda

What does it actually mean. Are you guys litrally suggesting you cant increase muscle while on a calorie defecit..

Yes. Litrally.

and if so are you suggesting there is then no point lifting weights while on a calorie defecit?

Not at all. You can still get stronger, and preserve more lean mass, and end up a healthier person.

UsedToBeHusky

You can build muscle on a deficit. But it's a slow process. Perhaps that is why people think that it is not possible. Building muscle is part of your body's natural reaction to increased demand on the muscles. The muscle is an organ, and the body will protect its organs above all else. The body doesn't deny the muscle unless the calorie deficit is too severe that the energy is required to sustain other important organs.

rocknroll21

From what I understand, overall, you will end up being smaller at the end of a cutting period, but that doesn't mean you won't make any gains! You can still make lean muscle gains from lifting and build muscle to help further burn calories, but if you're looking to pack on a lot of serious size, you probably won't be able to do that from a cut. However, the muscle (and the little you can build from lifting during this period) will start to show more which will give the illusion of increased muscle size. So all in all, the cut will be good for being lean and looking good and possibly making you look bigger!

fbmandy55

You didn't "build" that muscle. You just maintained it. To actually grow/build/acquire/whatever term you want to use muscle, you have to eat at a SURPLUS. That muscle in your arm was already there you just removed fat that was covering it.

This. I was noticing more definition in my arms after starting to strength train and I didn't realize that my muscles were not getting bigger, I was just losing the fat and seeing MORE of the muscle that was already there.

BigGuy47

Im pretty sure that is muscle in my photo

Yes that's muscle.

The question is did you reveal that muscle by removing the fat that covered it or did you build that muscle?

Crankstr

Some people can build muscle while on a deficit. Those who are new to lifting might build a small amount. For the most part we lift while dieting to preserve muscle and gain strength.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html



And as for 1200, why would anyone want to eat that low? If I can lose weight eating 2000 calories, you bet I'm going to eat 2000 calories, not 1200.

^ Everyone curious about this should just read those links.

:flowerforyou:

mikejholmes

There absolutely IS a point to lifting while on a caloric deficit -- it'll help preserve lean body mass.

1200 calories wouldn't be enough for most people -- ESPECIALLY if that is what they eat, as opposed to what they net. (IE: they eat 1200 calories, and then burn 400 on various machines). That does, of course, depend on starting weight, height, etc. But for 95%+ of people, it's not enough to be health at.

I've never quite gotten the "muscle on a calorie deficit" thing either. I don't say that to most people. For people just starting to lift, you WILL gain, even in a deficit. They call it newb gainz. You can't build muscle indefinitely on a deficit -- eventually, your body will have to prioritize between making your muscles bigger, or keeping your heart and lungs working. Heart and lungs win every time. The only person I would say "you can't build muscle on a calorie deficit" to is someone who has been lifting for at least 6 months, and has found that they are hitting a plateau. If THAT were your situation, then absolutely, you need to eat more, lots more, to be able to build more muscle.

_chiaroscuro

I think this is the most cleverly disguised 1200 calorie thread I've seen. But, since I'm already here...

You can gain muscle on a deficit, I think. I believe that is what "newbie gains" means, but this phenomenon does not last as you progress. Lifting while on a deficit is done primarily to preserve muscle mass, not build.

Also, the increased definition in your arm is likely from fat loss to reveal the muscle. Nice job, btw.

As for your intake I'm not going to even look. Do whatchawanna.

Jacwhite22

This is one of many things I have heard on the forums, is there something I'm not getting about this statement, for example maybe you can't get "bulky" lifting weights on a calorie deficit? What does it actually mean. Are you guys litrally suggesting you cant increase muscle while on a calorie defecit and if so are you suggesting there is then no point lifting weights while on a calorie defecit?
Im pretty sure that is muscle in my photo there but it mustn't be because I've been eating at 1200 calories. If I listened to some people on the forums I shouldn't have reached my goal weight either because my body should have "clung" on to all my fat due to "starvation mode"
Also I'm not hear to suggest anyone eats at 1200, it suited me as I was at a healthy BMI to begin with. Im not suggesting its for everyone!

The primary function of lifting while in a deficit is to preserve lean mass.....I don't see muscle in your photo.

murphy612

I've tried to argue this a million times but the more research I do and from my own physique, they are right, grrrr. Lifting weights will help you maintain the muscle you have which is excellent but gaining noticeable muscle eating 1200 is not happening. You are probably getting leaner which is making your muscles look more defined so you think it's bigger but it's probably not. And I'm not bashing 1200 that's what I have done and it's worked well for me. I have upped it because I do want to gain muscle now.

It's not impossible to gain muscle and lose fat, but it's really difficult and unlikely. Keep up the lifting!

JerseyGirlinTN

Thank you for this! Very clear and concise and easy to understand.

The point is that fuel is needed to create muscle.

By eating at a deficit, you are exhausting all that fuel just in the process of living, so the body has none left for niceties like building non-essential muscle. Your body's concern is survival, not how good you look on the beach, so it will not expend precious energy on non-essential muscle.

There are three things happening to you -

1. You are losing fat, which is revealing muscle.
2. A small degree of 'newbie gains' which are possible at a deficit.
3. A small degree of water retention in healing muscle. i.e. a 'pump'

Weight loss = body in a catabolic state
Muscle gain = body in an anabolic state

Catabolic and anabolic are opposite. While many professionals believe it is possible to rapidly switch between the two states in order to bulk and cut simultaneously, this is out of reach of most of us who aren't highly trained athletes with a team of trained coaches and nutritionists behind us.

krhn

You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

I think this ends the discussion pretty neatly

_speshk

Bump. Because I love this thread.

LuHox

I've wasted many months of my life listening to people on these forums and getting no results because of it. I now trust MFP recommendations for the most part.
I've always wondered about this particular thing though. So when you get muscles while in a calorie deficit, are you revealing the ones you already had by burning the fat around them or building some muscle while burning fat?
In my experience I could see more muscle definition, but I had not lost any weight AT ALL while eating in a calorie deficit, so I wondered "Is it possible that I burned fat and built muscle simultaneously"?

lporter229

bump for links

desiv2

I've heard it as well, but those same people normally mention that there are beginner's gains..which would explain why you've gained muscle despite the calorie deficit.

Also, I've seen several thread's that encourage lifting on a deficit as it is necessary to maintain muscle mass. I don't think everyone is telling you there is no point to lifting while on a calorie deficit, and if they do, don't listen to them! However, I think there is a point where you will no longer gain muscle mass without eating more. Does not mean you shouldn't keep lifting, because either way it's beneficial!

Arkhos

All of the above applies... UNLESS you are obese, in which case you can gain muscle while on a deficit.



The joys of being a big fatty

winchestervol63

I don't like blanket statements, like 'you can't build muscle in a deficit'. Especially when they're that general.

Now, it can be easily granted that it's easier to build muscle without being in a deficit, but I don't think it's impossible.

I've was 278 two months ago and am 244 now. My reps for 225 on the bench press have gone from 3 to 7 during that time. My arms have gotten bigger, also. Now, I guess it's possible that I haven't built any muscle at all and have instead just somehow gotten stronger with the same (or less) muscle and that my arms have added fat or water instead of muscle, but that seems to stretch the limits of credulity a bit far, to me.

I think if one were to add muscle in a deficit, it would require moderate strength training and adequate protein. And I think that any added muscle that you might be lucky enough to produce would be less than would have been produced by the same amount of lifting if you weren't eating at a deficit.

I think it's difficult and that the progress is not tremendous, but I just can't bring myself to agree with the common belief that it's impossible.

carolmcgov

You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

My arms haven't changed much in size since I started. they are less flabby and more muscular. I took this picture today and I have not lifted today.

JNick77

.

Jennvandemark

I eat at a deficit and lift. My question is this then. I have not lost more the 5 pounds in the last few months but have lost inches all over my body. I am not a newbi. I have been lifting since I started MFP over a year ago. I have lost over a 100 pounds. So what happen? I thought I had gained muscle but after reading all the post about this topic I am still confused.

Did I not gain muscle since the scale didnt budge and I lost inches?

Achrya

I think this is the most cleverly disguised 1200 calorie thread I've seen. But, since I'm already here...

You can gain muscle on a deficit, I think. I believe that is what "newbie gains" means, but this phenomenon does not last as you progress. Lifting while on a deficit is done primarily to preserve muscle mass, not build.

Also, the increased definition in your arm is likely from fat loss to reveal the muscle. Nice job, btw.

As for your intake I'm not going to even look. Do whatchawanna.

Its nice to see I wasn't the only one drawn in only to go "Wait. What?"

I don't know a lot but I know if a grown man has to eat like a baby elephant and work very hard to put on a few pounds of muscle, a women eating at 1200 shouldn't be able to do it so easily. But maybe I've missed something somewhere. Maybe if I eat 1200 I too can get ripped.