Everything in moderation? Really?
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Except wine...
And cheese0 -
I use moderation in moderation. Sometimes extremes are necessary yo.0
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No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.
Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.
It actually is a physical addiction to all the sugars and chemical additives in the processed foods and drinks. I say this because, when I cut it all out cold turkey, I started experiencing symptoms of withdrawal...headaches, nausea, moodiness, shakiness, etc... Definitely not to the extreme that a drug or alcohol addict would experience, but the symptoms were there, nonetheless. These symptoms lasted for a couple of days. Personally, that's my biggest motivation in staying away from it. I know how hard it was to come off of it, and I know, from personal experience, that the more of it I eat, the more I want. It always starts with "just a little taste", then before you know it, you're overindulging on a daily basis. If it's that hard to get it out of my system, it can't possibly be even a little bit good for me. All of that being said, in addition to processed food having some physically addictive properties, for some people it's also an emotional addiction. When you're stressed, anxious, frustrated, etc... junk food and such can have a soothing effect. That feeling, that initial "high", can become addictive.0 -
No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.
Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.
You are making an assumption here that a 'moderation' lifestyle is 'so difficult to keep'. It is the easiest thing I've done. I eat pretty much the same way I always have, just in smaller quantities. What's so hard about that?
Yes, this ^^... I refuse to cut things out of my lifestyle. I'm not on here to *diet* I'm here to make a lifelong lasting change. This change does not include telling myself I can't have something.0 -
I'm always very confused why people worry so much about what other people do. If restricting foods works for you, do it. If everything in moderation works better, do it. Who the heck cares what works for the next person? I personally don't care what others do to lose weight - I'm focused on me and my goals.
{snip}
This^^ ... Everytime I see a thread like this one get started, I think this same thing. I can't understand why some people think it's their duty to be the lifestyle police of MFP. :huh:
QFT!!! :drinker:
I agree! Of course we're here to give opinions and advice, however we should respect that everyone is different. And just because something works for someone, doesn't mean it will work for another! I say everything in moderation because it works for me. Now I don't think "everything" should be taken so literally. I don't eat EVERYTHING. But there are a few things like ice cream or chocolate that I will have in moderation and that works for ME. I wouldn't tell anyone who thinks otherwise to be like me or to stop. Whatever is working for them, congrats!
However, I agree people DO use moderation as an excuse to over eat. That's their problem and they have to realize it for themselves. Hopefully they do
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That was entirely my point. This concept of foods in moderation is an entirely personal decision. I would argue that eating those unhealthy foods in moderation is 'better' but that's a matter of opinion (to use alcohol as a parallel, I similarly think the person who can have a few drinks on occassion has a healthier relationship with booze than the recovering alcoholic who can't have any, though there is of course nothing wrong with the recovering person's strategy since that's what he or she has to do to stay healthy). I think the reason a lot of people advocate this approach is because they, like me, believe it to be 'better' than total abstinence for just the reason I explained. Taking as an assumption that 'unhealthy' food in moderation (i.e. still allowing you to meet your nutrient and total caloric intake targets) isn't bad for you, being able to enjoy that indulgence from time to time could be seen as having a 'better' relationship with that particular type of food. At the end of the day, it entirely boils down to what works best for you individually. If you have to abstain, do that. If you have to have a treat from time to time, do that. People have been successful (and unsuccessful) with both strategies.
Isn't it a false dichotomy though? I'm not saying the choice is between everything in moderation and nothing in moderation. People who have been successful in eliminating certain foods from their diets are most likely eating the foods they eat in moderation. So not only are they eating foods in moderation, but also they are completely omitting certain foods that they have deemed not healthy (or at least not optimal).
While I'm not saying those who follow EIM are necessarily being unhealthy, I believe it's a bit of a stretch to equate a decision to eat only a little bit of a food considered to be unhealthy as healthier than a decision to eat none of it.
You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but it betrays the underlying principle upon which we disagree. For the same reason I thought the casual drinker's one or two pints a month is a healthier relationship with beer than the recovering alcoholic's, I think that being able to eat 'unhealthy' foods in small enough quantities that they cease to be unhealthy is a healthier relationship than total abstinence. You clearly think they're unhealthy in any quantity, so of course even moderation is 'bad'. Agree to disagree I imagine.0 -
Centuries worth of cultures around the world would find your statement utterly ridiculous. Food is part of life. It's part of ritual, and family, and local custom and many other things. All throughout time people found joy through food and celebration. It wasn't until the scientist got involved that food got a bad rap.
I agree with this except for blaming the scientists. It is when we started abusing ourselves with food that the problems started. Just as alcohol can be a fun and healthy part of gatherings and celebrations, so can food of all types. But when you party 24/7 you will run into problems.
I certainly am not advocating for partying 24/7 (or partying at all). And I don't think anyone else here is either. My comment regarding food and celebration through time was directly related to a comment stating that people should basically all view food as fuel and nothing else.
And scientists get the blame because the more "answers" they come up with the more our foods are manipulated to not even closely resemble the foods they once were. Foods created in labs (by scientists) are not nearly as healthful as foods created by nature, but unfortunately, even the foods created by nature are being manipulated. Then you have things like "go-gurt" - which is full of sugar and HFCS, so it's essentially liquid candy disguising itself as yogurt. But parents feed it to their kids thinking they are giving them something healthy - so lack of truth in advertising is to blame as well. It's not as simple as people abusing themselves. People, quite frankly, often have no idea what's healthy and what's not. Sure, Twinkies are obviously bad, but not everything is obvious.0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. Many friends and family think i am crazy for thinking this. Everybody knows themselves well enough to know what are their trigger foods and the foods that are of no quality. I have noticed the people who believe in moderation the most usually just dont want to give up their favorite foods.0
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I certainly don't believe in completely depriving myself of delicious, unhealthy foods that I enjoy. I love me some taco bell, or barbeque, or chocolate cake. However, I hate when people use the "everything in moderation" phrase to justify eating these things on a regular basis. When I say I try to eat these things every once in a while, I mean it. So yes, I do eat these things in moderation, but for me moderation means treating myself every few weeks or even months, not every weekend or every day.
^^^ This is my philosophy....and I've lost 37 pounds by following it. I can honestly say that I rarely have cravings for the stuff I used to eat ALL the time. When I do have a craving, I don't always indulge, but I know that every once in a while it is OK.0 -
I have noticed the people who believe in moderation the most usually just dont want to give up their favorite foods.
Of course. That's the point of moderation. That no food (that you like) is really off limits. As long as it does not affect one's health and fitness goals, does it matter if it is accomplished by giving up all foods that are unhealthy for one, or by eating mostly healthy foods, but also allowing oneself the freedom to indulge in foods they like?0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
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All I have to say is you will never take my chocolate chip cookies from me.0
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as an overeater, i cannot do moderation.
i'm an all or nothing kinda girl.0 -
No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.
Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.
For me it was exactly the opposite. When I totally cut out certain foods and told myself I couldn't have them, I would end up binging on them. It was when I decided to do everything in moderation that I got my eating under control. I was able to adopt a healthy lifestyle with junk thrown in every now and then. I've been liberated from my food obsession by keeping everything in moderation.0 -
I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.
Agreed as well!0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
You missed the point...If you eat like you are talking about without doing it in moderation, you're body fat will be WAY higher than 16.9%.0 -
A few months ago, I would have vehemently disagreed with you. Since then, I've tried to cut processed foods and chemicals out as much as possible. I've found that fast food tastes funny to me now (whereas I grew up eating it constantly) and that I can actually taste the awesome aspects of natural foods more now that I don't really eat much processed stuff (example: hated plain roasted almonds before, now I think they taste sweet and no longer buy the flavored ones).
I still very much believe all REAL foods in moderation. I eat cake, cookies, ice cream, pizza etc but I also make most things myself from scratch and know exactly what's going into it or I buy brands I trust. I think getting to this point is a VERY long process though and for some people it's just not a priority. That's fine with me...they can have the fast food, I'll take the beets 0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
Are those the only choices in your world? Cardboard or candy, donuts and egg sandwiches with syrup (:sick: )?? That's a mighty sad world you live in friend. My BF would be lower than 16% if those were the only choices I had.0 -
The point <I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
Are those the only choices in your world? Cardboard or candy, donuts and egg sandwiches with syrup (:sick: )?? That's a mighty sad world you live in friend. My BF would be lower than 16% if those were the only choices I had.
Your head <
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This made me think I should do a blind fold test and see if I actually enjoy what is being fed to me...0
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The point <I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
Are those the only choices in your world? Cardboard or candy, donuts and egg sandwiches with syrup (:sick: )?? That's a mighty sad world you live in friend. My BF would be lower than 16% if those were the only choices I had.
Your head <
ROFL!! :laugh:0 -
I don't eat clean by any means and I don't eat crap all the time. However I refuse to deprive myself of things. I count for it, I log everything daily. However, I do eat better now then I use to eat. I think people fail to see this, some people are just starting and are just learning, some people believe they can eat what they want as long as they count it. Some people eat better then they did before even if it's not clean. I'm taking little out at a time. I have done away with fried foods and Soda's sugar is another story, I have taken it out a lot but I have days that I cave in. Yup moderation is key, I do believe that, it is for me. What works for me might not be your thing, but I'm not going to knock you for how you do it. I'm healthier now then I've ever been and I do workout and my muscles are becoming more and more visible.
This is a good point...that many may be transitioning to new habits that ultimately eliminate the foods that are causing them problems (but on their way, are keeping the "EIM" mantra). For those people, I would say good work, keep it up.
However, for those who have tried this many times (each time with "EIM"), and find that they are *not* making progress towards their goals, that it continues to be a struggle for them no matter how hard they try, that I believe questioning "EIM" is worth considering...because there are people who *have* accomplished their goals without "EIM" by making a clean break from certain foods, and that these certain foods are what kept them from being successful.
(And the ultimate irony in all of this is that *after* reaching and maintaining their goals, having broken their reliance on these foods, they have been able to successful indulge in them *if/when they want* in *moderation* without falling back into their old habits.)
That's an interesting take. I went off caffeine and sugar completely, now I enjoy both in moderation. Foods like these make a noticeable change in your moods and energy level. Now I can enjoy a little of these for the taste and not consume a lot for their effects.0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
You missed the point...If you eat like you are talking about without doing it in moderation, you're body fat will be WAY higher than 16.9%.
No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
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Too much water is called drowning.
What your discussion is more about deals with the choices we make in our eating or drinking habits, not moderation.
Everything we do is in moderation....it has to be.
Tap water and bottled water could contain arsenic....yet we still drink it.0 -
I agree with the point the OP is making in that 'everything in moderation' doesn't work for everyone and is used as a crutch by many who fail to reach sustained weight loss.
The real problem isn't really the fact that people may have a Twinkie once a month. The problem is that 'moderation' is such a broad term. It can mean once a day, once a week, once a month, or once a year. There's no set definition.
I've cut out a lot of crap from my diet that I once enjoyed. I don't expect to go back - and for the things I've cut out and go back to, it's usually one or twice a month at most.
I always get a disapproving look when I tell people I don't eat grains or don't eat sugar. They shake their heads and say it isn't sustainable or healthy to cut out entire 'food groups' and that 'moderation' is key to success and health, etc.
Well I've been at it for two years and have never felt better. This isn't to say I never ever have grains or sugar, but it's generally on a special occasion.
The other thing that people don't really think of is that for most people tracking calories isn't something that they expect to or want to do for the rest of their lives. So, sure, you can eat your junk foods as long as it fits into your calories (because you exercised like a maniac or starved yourself to make it fit that day), but what happens when you stop counting them?
To me, I would slowly slip into eating more and more junk , and because I allowed junk food 'in moderation' there really was no reason for me to not eat something ('oh, I'll have it just today and tomorrow I'll be good').
Now, without grain and sugar, it's actually difficult for me to eat too many calories, so I know that even if I stop calorie-counting, I'll be able to maintain quite easily.
Like the OP, I'm not saying that this works for everyone, but I would be willing to bet that many who have yo-yo dieted and don't plan on counting calories for the rest of their lives could benefit from an 'elimination' diet, rather than an 'everything in moderation' diet.0 -
No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
Wow - you really do eat like crap. I thought you were exaggerating, but honestly, I think you get the distinction of the person who eats the most junk that I've ever seen on here.0 -
No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
Wow - you really do eat like crap. I thought you were exaggerating, but honestly, I think you get the distinction of the person who eats the most junk that I've ever seen on here.
That was both freakin funny and kinda sad for me at the same time, heheh. Yah some days I am worse then others. This weeks been one of those junk food weeks... actually the past 2 weeks really. I had like 8 cookies plus on Sunday, hah! To each his own though! Glad you are going towards the healthy side and you found out what works for you! Me if I try and restrict myself to whatever I over eat and don't feel satisfied with the healthy foods period so I am constantly searching for more food after I am done. I feel more full, stay full longer, and have more energy off of the junk. AND I burn a heck of alot more because I am jumping off the walls 24/7! I have eaten this way my whole life. Tired healthy for a while and wow my body tanked! Plus it also doesn't help that I am allergic to most all fruits and veggies. That kinda puts a damper in the whole trying to eat healthy anyway. I can only eat broccoli, apples, pears, peaches, and strawberries and even some times those make me itch like a crazy person! No nuts with the exception of peanuts0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
You missed the point...If you eat like you are talking about without doing it in moderation, you're body fat will be WAY higher than 16.9%.
No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
TBH, I ate like that in my early 30s too, and with similarly low BF.
I certainly wasn't healthy back then, but I was still skinny.
*shrug*0 -
Well if it works for you, that's great! You do look great.No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
Wow - you really do eat like crap. I thought you were exaggerating, but honestly, I think you get the distinction of the person who eats the most junk that I've ever seen on here.
That was both freakin funny and kinda sad for me at the same time, heheh. Yah some days I am worse then others. This weeks been one of those junk food weeks... actually the past 2 weeks really. I had like 8 cookies plus on Sunday, hah! To each his own though! Glad you are going towards the healthy side and you found out what works for you! Me if I try and restrict myself to whatever I over eat and don't feel satisfied with the healthy foods period so I am constantly searching for more food after I am done. I feel more full, stay full longer, and have more energy off of the junk. AND I burn a heck of alot more because I am jumping off the walls 24/7! I have eaten this way my whole life. Tired healthy for a while and wow my body tanked! Plus it also doesn't help that I am allergic to most all fruits and veggies. That kinda puts a damper in the whole trying to eat healthy anyway. I can only eat broccoli, apples, pears, peaches, and strawberries and even some times those make me itch like a crazy person! No nuts with the exception of peanuts
I didn't look past this week, so I'm judging based solely on that so if this is a bad week, I might have to take the award back
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It's actually not 'that' bad of a diet and is probably fairly average for Americans, but on this site you generally see people doing their best to eat healthy.
Either way, I couldn't eat like that anymore. I'd always be hungry or if I let myself eat, I'd weigh 250lbs+ (been at around that weight eating fairly healthy).
Crazy about your allergies though! That'd be really tough!0 -
I do not believe in the everything in moderation philosophy either. I am reading this as I eat my Twix candy bar, finish up my donut, & drink the rest of my coffee with a packet of hot cocoa in it full of sugar (seeing as I am already 60 grams over my sugar intake MFP has me on per day), so that I can then eat my processed breakfast sandwich with processed bread and cheese and eggs and sausage dripping in syrup. And I realize... I am quite happy with my 16.3% body fat I have achieved while not limiting myself to anything and I am quite happy with my food too. To each their own! Now I am going to go eat! Have fun debating and eating cardboard
You missed the point...If you eat like you are talking about without doing it in moderation, you're body fat will be WAY higher than 16.9%.
No I didn't... I wasn't missing the point I was being sarcastic and I am at 16.3% body fat and I eat like that every day. Eating healthy has nothing to do with loosing body fat.
TBH, I ate like that in my early 30s too, and with similarly low BF.
I certainly wasn't healthy back then, but I was still skinny.
*shrug*
Not sure I believe you. Low BF is a pretty good indicator of health. She's not skinny fat.0
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