Everything in moderation? Really?

jofjltncb6

Am I the only person on MFP who *doesn't* believe in "everything in moderation"? That some foods just aren't worth eating, so I don't? That some foods are processed to the point that they don't really seem like food anymore and the only reason you *think* they taste good is because you are conditioned to believe they taste good? That the excuse of "if I don't eat it, then I'll just crave it more and that will destroy my diet" is just that, an excuse? That maybe, just maybe, the "secret" to ending a "bad relationship" with certain foods that ultimately cause you to stumble in your diet is to stop eating them entirely (and then learning that once you do, these foods no longer have such power over you)?

:huh:

ETA: And please don't misunderstand, I'm not talking about *never* eating something that isn't totally healthy for you. I understand that sometimes, certain foods *are* worth the dietary hit. I'm talking about the constant insistence that *nothing* is ever off limits (and then the subsequent problem: a frequent indulgence in foods like these).

cbevan1229

Here's the thing, I haven't written any food off for good. And I'll readily admit to consuming some aspartame every day, which I know is horrible.

But I do tend to read ingredient lists, and choose foods with ingredients I recognize as actual food, and can pronounce. And after a while, some of the highly processed stuff does start to taste, well.... fake.

3dogsrunning

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

TheFitHooker

I don't eat clean by any means and I don't eat crap all the time. However I refuse to deprive myself of things. I count for it, I log everything daily. However, I do eat better now then I use to eat. I think people fail to see this, some people are just starting and are just learning, some people believe they can eat what they want as long as they count it. Some people eat better then they did before even if it's not clean. I'm taking little out at a time. I have done away with fried foods and Soda's sugar is another story, I have taken it out a lot but I have days that I cave in. Yup moderation is key, I do believe that, it is for me. What works for me might not be your thing, but I'm not going to knock you for how you do it. I'm healthier now then I've ever been and I do workout and my muscles are becoming more and more visible.

ETA: Sorry the edit was not on there when I posted this.

jofjltncb6

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

Spanaval

To each, his own. I like food, especially sweets, so I eat it, in small quantities. That's what works for me. For someone else, those are just junk, not something that's worth the caloric hit. As long as we each find a sustainable path to being fit, all is well.

camrunner

I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.

Spanaval

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

You are making an assumption here that a 'moderation' lifestyle is 'so difficult to keep'. It is the easiest thing I've done. I eat pretty much the same way I always have, just in smaller quantities. What's so hard about that?

TheFitHooker

I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.

Oh that's sorta a pet peeve of mine, I don't like cheat days because calling it a cheat is like saying you are doing something wrong. Honestly I only allow myself a glass of wine when I've worked hard all week and have given it my all. To me it's a treat and its something I feel I worked hard for.

CrysButcher3

Well....I will say that what works well for one may not work well for another? I refuse to give up my potatoes, but I have given up my love of butter and bread. I eat ONE potato a day instead of like 4-5 like I used to. I admit that giving up some things is essential...like fast food....to me that is a waste of our money. (I say that now that I'm not eating it anymore.) I know how bad that stuff is for us.
I'm still trying like heck to give up my sugar free drinks (because I drink like a gallon a day)...it contains that aspartame and I've heard nothing but bad things about it (but yet sadly the dang thing continues to be on our shelves...don't get that actually) I love my sugar free drinks....and I absolutely hate water. But....another thing I will agree with you on is *re-training* our selves to like something....so in my case water.

Not that it matters, but I half agree with you. I agree that fast food should be eliminate altogether just because it is LOADED with sodium, and well....maybe 3 months from now I will be on full ride with you and eliminate those potatoes altogether....who knows?

P.s....even if I was to totally disagree with you....you are still my buddy.((and as I say that I see that elf from buddy!)) lol....I have some serious issues obviously.

SamanthaAnnM

I certainly don't believe in completely depriving myself of delicious, unhealthy foods that I enjoy. I love me some taco bell, or barbeque, or chocolate cake. However, I hate when people use the "everything in moderation" phrase to justify eating these things on a regular basis. When I say I try to eat these things every once in a while, I mean it. So yes, I do eat these things in moderation, but for me moderation means treating myself every few weeks or even months, not every weekend or every day.

ElizabethRoad

Nothing is off-limits to me. There are things that I would decide against eating, but nothing that I would say "never" to. Maybe if you have a difficult relationship with food, your attitude makes sense, but to me "everything in moderation" works just fine.

CrysButcher3

I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.

^^ I agree. Cheat days to me personally is my downfall and in the past has been the reason I failed all to often. I won't do cheat days, it is a lifestyle change, and I have to be able to live with that change....I don't want to have to have a *day* to cheat....if I'm living a healthy lifestyle I won't have to really *cheat*.... :flowerforyou:

jofjltncb6

I don't eat clean by any means and I don't eat crap all the time. However I refuse to deprive myself of things. I count for it, I log everything daily. However, I do eat better now then I use to eat. I think people fail to see this, some people are just starting and are just learning, some people believe they can eat what they want as long as they count it. Some people eat better then they did before even if it's not clean. I'm taking little out at a time. I have done away with fried foods and Soda's sugar is another story, I have taken it out a lot but I have days that I cave in. Yup moderation is key, I do believe that, it is for me. What works for me might not be your thing, but I'm not going to knock you for how you do it. I'm healthier now then I've ever been and I do workout and my muscles are becoming more and more visible.

This is a good point...that many may be transitioning to new habits that ultimately eliminate the foods that are causing them problems (but on their way, are keeping the "EIM" mantra). For those people, I would say good work, keep it up.

However, for those who have tried this many times (each time with "EIM"), and find that they are *not* making progress towards their goals, that it continues to be a struggle for them no matter how hard they try, that I believe questioning "EIM" is worth considering...because there are people who *have* accomplished their goals without "EIM" by making a clean break from certain foods, and that these certain foods are what kept them from being successful.

(And the ultimate irony in all of this is that *after* reaching and maintaining their goals, having broken their reliance on these foods, they have been able to successful indulge in them *if/when they want* in *moderation* without falling back into their old habits.)

graelwyn

To each, his own. I like food, especially sweets, so I eat it, in small quantities. That's what works for me. For someone else, those are just junk, not something that's worth the caloric hit. As long as we each find a sustainable path to being fit, all is well.

This. To each their own. Life is to be enjoyed and if some of that enjoyment comes from less than clean foods, then so be it. And no, saying that's what got me here in the first place wouldn't work as I have never in my life been overweight I have had my share of eating clean, vegan, not eating at all, etc etc, and am happy settling on allowing myself to eat what I fancy, which fortunately happens to be mostly healthy foods, but also some cake, chocolate and ice cream.

tmauck4472

I gave up all processed foods and I don't miss anything but processed meat. I happen to like tyson chicken strips. But I have given them up too thought of getting some today but I walked away and got some fruit instead. I know my body is better off without it. It was just so convenient and kinda like fast food.

jofjltncb6

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

You are making an assumption here that a 'moderation' lifestyle is 'so difficult to keep'. It is the easiest thing I've done. I eat pretty much the same way I always have, just in smaller quantities. What's so hard about that?

This is an easy one. Are you telling me that people (on MFP and elsewhere) do not struggle in reaching their dietary goals? That "EIM" has a great track record for success and longevity? I don't believe that's the case and I also don't believe it's just my assumption.

Now, I'll admit, it *is* my assumption that "EIM" is part of the problem for the failure rate of dietary changes, but that "moderation" lifestyle is often not effective seems to be supported by plenty of evidence.

Crochetluvr

That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives.

You CAN crave some foods...like chocolate....and get rid of the cravings by avoiding it for an extended period of time, yet not give it up for life. I went off chocolate cold turkey for 30 days. However, I have not given up chocolate out of fear I may crave it again. I eat it on rare occasions and in moderate amounts. I no longer crave it but have not given it up, either.

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo

Have you ever heard the real story of a professor who lost weight by eating Twinkies? So your assumption is wrong, sorry.

I understand what you mean & even I gave up eating junk frequently although I still have it occassionally (I'm just a human being who also have a right to enjoy these things). Although personally I eat as clean as possible however I believe that eating everything in moderation works, yes & that includes on processed foods. So to each their own.

And please never push us to believe on your assumptions simply because you don't believe what the majority thinks. Yes you are entitled to your own opinions but you must also learn to respect other people's opinions too.

jofjltncb6

Nothing is off-limits to me. There are things that I would decide against eating, but nothing that I would say "never" to. Maybe if you have a difficult relationship with food, your attitude makes sense, but to me "everything in moderation" works just fine.

I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".

And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.

TeachTheGirl

I like my bad relationship with food. I've just learned how to keep that relationship to the occasional get together.

Sure, my body could be better fueled without the occasional donut, but I can't imagine my life without it. And that's just it; it's MY life and my choice what I put into it. If you don't want to have that kind of relationship with food, I'm glad that works for you!

bacamacho

I'd prefer to cook everything from scratch, or at least order something at a restaurant that is cooked from fresh ingredients, but sometimes I'm a frazzled mom and not on the ball, so I've stopped at McD's, fed my kids canned spaghetti, and chips. Probably more often than I should, but for the most part, we eat plenty of home cooked meals and desserts because I do like to cook a lot. I'm probably at my worst when my husband is deployed. Have to admit, Stouffers makes much better lasagna than I do! I don't know how to make ice cream either. :laugh:

dhakiyya

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

I disagree, at least to an extent. I'm sure there are people who use "everything in moderation" as an excuse to continue eating junk at unhealthy levels, not addressing psychological dependence on certain foods, etc. However many people really do eat unhealthy food in moderation and continue to lose fat successfully. Moderation is the key, they're not everyday foods, they're once in a while foods. There are people who swing from one extreme to the other... from abstinence to bingeing/addictive behaviours. However there are a lot of us who can find a middle ground, and also those who will be moderate when they give themselves permission to be moderate... but who will end up bingeing sooner or later if they abstain. Moderation can be like a pressure release valve.

I also don't see what's liberating in being unnecessarily restrictive. IMO it's liberating to be able to take or leave unhealthy foods as I see fit. I don't need to abstain from them 100% to be able to do that. If I eat them, it's a choice, and one I make knowing that I've fed my body properly, and can spare the calories and/or could do with a calorie spike to boost my metabolism. And yes, I enjoy eating them. That's liberating too, enjoying food while knowing it's not going to mess up my health. I have a policy whereby I only eat junk food if I'm really going to enjoy it. It's not worth the calories otherwise. And I follow the 95% rule, i.e. if 95% of what I eat is healthy, clean food, the other 5% isn't going to damage my progress. (and the reverse is true, if someone eats 95% unhealthy, 5% of healthy food isn't going to make them healthy)

ElizabethRoad

I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".

I am not sure I follow you. I wasn't talking about cravings at all. I rarely have any cravings.

dad106

It's called ITFM aka If it fits my macros.

I don't think I've stopped eating anything I like.. I just eat smaller portions and try to find healthier versions.

I've lost 30 pounds, 6 sizes and about 6% body fat I believe, this way... and I don't intend on changing anytime soon.

jofjltncb6

Have you ever heard the real story of a professor who lost weight by eating Twinkies? So your assumption is wrong, sorry.

I understand what you mean & even I gave up eating junk frequently although I still have it occassionally (I'm just a human being who also have a right to enjoy these things). Although personally I eat as clean as possible however I believe that eating everything in moderation works, yes & that includes on processed foods. So to each their own.

And please never push us to believe on your assumptions simply because you don't believe what the majority thinks. Yes you are entitled to your own opinions but you must also learn to respect other people's opinions too.

Huh? Yes, I've heard of that guy, but how is his situation relevant to lead you to believe that my "assumption is wrong"? I'm not saying it is impossible to reach your goals with "EIM", I'm saying that there is another way that may actually be easier (or that may work when "EIM" has not worked). I'm saying that when people have repeated failed attempts, that "EIM" may be a big factor. May. Be. For those who are struggling, it certainly seems (to me) worth questioning.

I'm glad that "EIM" works for you. (I don't believe it has worked for everyone.) I'm not sure where you think I want to take away your "right" to eat what you want. (I don't.) I'm also not sure why you think I'm pushing you to believe any of my assumptions. (I'm not.) I'm also not sure why I need to "learn to respect other people's opinions too". At what point have I disrespected anyone's opinion? (Disagreeing with an opinion =/= disrespecting an opinion.)

cbevan1229

I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.

I don't agree with "cheat" days - you can't cheat your body, or the scale. I do believe in occasionally making a *choice* to eat something that is an indulgence.

dhakiyya

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

You are making an assumption here that a 'moderation' lifestyle is 'so difficult to keep'. It is the easiest thing I've done. I eat pretty much the same way I always have, just in smaller quantities. What's so hard about that?

This is an easy one. Are you telling me that people (on MFP and elsewhere) do not struggle in reaching their dietary goals? That "EIM" has a great track record for success and longevity? I don't believe that's the case and I also don't believe it's just my assumption.

Now, I'll admit, it *is* my assumption that "EIM" is part of the problem for the failure rate of dietary changes, but that "moderation" lifestyle is often not effective seems to be supported by plenty of evidence.

You can see from my ticker that I've overshot my goal by 5lb and now I'm planning on building some more muscle, because I'd rather be 5lb or so heavier than I am now, but with less body fat than I have now (my BMI and body fat percentage are both in the healthy range currently, but I still can lose some more body fat without going into the unhealthy range and more muscle is always good). I eat everything in moderation, and my experience from talking to people on fitness forums like this one and others, people who swing from excessive restriction to unplanned eating of unhealthy foods have more problems sticking to their diet plans, than those who eat unhealthy food in moderation as part of their plan, whether it's for the purpose of spiking the metabolism, or as a psychological release valve from abstention, or from a combination of both. That's my experience from talking to a lot of people online. I'm sure there are exceptions and this is not a scientific study.

I can see why some people with certain issues, e.g. emotional eating, who have trigger foods that once they start they can't stop, might be better off abstaining if they're totally unable to be moderate with those foods. But if you can be moderate I really don't see what the issue is.

tiffanyrose519

You're not the only one, once I found out all the chemicals in a lot of "foods" I won't knowingly eat them. I am very conscious of labels and don't want to put chemicals in my body. I think you would really like the website foodbabe.com, it really opened my eyes to what is really in our food and how to change your lifestyle to avoid them.

corpus_validum

To each, his own. I like food, especially sweets, so I eat it, in small quantities. That's what works for me. For someone else, those are just junk, not something that's worth the caloric hit. As long as we each find a sustainable path to being fit, all is well.

Agreed. Everyone's different with unique medical conditions, and there's more than one route to a fit, healthy body. I don't have any serious medical issues so I find the "everything in moderation" and not restricting anything, along with exercise, to be my preferred method to a healthy and fit lifestyle.

I think moderation boils down to portion control, which is definitely a struggle for many. It was for me too. I grew up in household where we had to finish everything on our plates. So I've had to learn a few tricks to overcome certain destructive habits. For one, I now keep much smaller plates and bowls in the cabinets, and I don't go for seconds. I also treat myself to a single dessert on a daily basis, but only if I've eaten "clean" or exercised a lot that day.

So for me, it wasn't about eliminating all "unhealthy" food choices. I mean I still strive to eat as healthy as possible but don't worry about the occassional bad items. It was more about revising my daily habits to attain a healthier life. It's a lifestyle, not a diet...unless I'm cutting to try to reveal a six-pack during the summer season ;-)

jofjltncb6

It's great to hear that EIM is working for many of you. (And I'm admittedly disappointed that more "not EIM" haven't responded.)

I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.