Everything in moderation? Really?

bacamacho

I'd prefer to cook everything from scratch, or at least order something at a restaurant that is cooked from fresh ingredients, but sometimes I'm a frazzled mom and not on the ball, so I've stopped at McD's, fed my kids canned spaghetti, and chips. Probably more often than I should, but for the most part, we eat plenty of home cooked meals and desserts because I do like to cook a lot. I'm probably at my worst when my husband is deployed. Have to admit, Stouffers makes much better lasagna than I do! I don't know how to make ice cream either. :laugh:

dhakiyya

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

I disagree, at least to an extent. I'm sure there are people who use "everything in moderation" as an excuse to continue eating junk at unhealthy levels, not addressing psychological dependence on certain foods, etc. However many people really do eat unhealthy food in moderation and continue to lose fat successfully. Moderation is the key, they're not everyday foods, they're once in a while foods. There are people who swing from one extreme to the other... from abstinence to bingeing/addictive behaviours. However there are a lot of us who can find a middle ground, and also those who will be moderate when they give themselves permission to be moderate... but who will end up bingeing sooner or later if they abstain. Moderation can be like a pressure release valve.

I also don't see what's liberating in being unnecessarily restrictive. IMO it's liberating to be able to take or leave unhealthy foods as I see fit. I don't need to abstain from them 100% to be able to do that. If I eat them, it's a choice, and one I make knowing that I've fed my body properly, and can spare the calories and/or could do with a calorie spike to boost my metabolism. And yes, I enjoy eating them. That's liberating too, enjoying food while knowing it's not going to mess up my health. I have a policy whereby I only eat junk food if I'm really going to enjoy it. It's not worth the calories otherwise. And I follow the 95% rule, i.e. if 95% of what I eat is healthy, clean food, the other 5% isn't going to damage my progress. (and the reverse is true, if someone eats 95% unhealthy, 5% of healthy food isn't going to make them healthy)

ElizabethRoad

I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".

I am not sure I follow you. I wasn't talking about cravings at all. I rarely have any cravings.

dad106

It's called ITFM aka If it fits my macros.

I don't think I've stopped eating anything I like.. I just eat smaller portions and try to find healthier versions.

I've lost 30 pounds, 6 sizes and about 6% body fat I believe, this way... and I don't intend on changing anytime soon.

jofjltncb6

Have you ever heard the real story of a professor who lost weight by eating Twinkies? So your assumption is wrong, sorry.

I understand what you mean & even I gave up eating junk frequently although I still have it occassionally (I'm just a human being who also have a right to enjoy these things). Although personally I eat as clean as possible however I believe that eating everything in moderation works, yes & that includes on processed foods. So to each their own.

And please never push us to believe on your assumptions simply because you don't believe what the majority thinks. Yes you are entitled to your own opinions but you must also learn to respect other people's opinions too.

Huh? Yes, I've heard of that guy, but how is his situation relevant to lead you to believe that my "assumption is wrong"? I'm not saying it is impossible to reach your goals with "EIM", I'm saying that there is another way that may actually be easier (or that may work when "EIM" has not worked). I'm saying that when people have repeated failed attempts, that "EIM" may be a big factor. May. Be. For those who are struggling, it certainly seems (to me) worth questioning.

I'm glad that "EIM" works for you. (I don't believe it has worked for everyone.) I'm not sure where you think I want to take away your "right" to eat what you want. (I don't.) I'm also not sure why you think I'm pushing you to believe any of my assumptions. (I'm not.) I'm also not sure why I need to "learn to respect other people's opinions too". At what point have I disrespected anyone's opinion? (Disagreeing with an opinion =/= disrespecting an opinion.)

cbevan1229

I agree. I don't believe in cheat days either. There are plenty of things that I just can't bring myself to eat. No eating experience is good enough to be worth how bad I feel afterwards.

I don't agree with "cheat" days - you can't cheat your body, or the scale. I do believe in occasionally making a *choice* to eat something that is an indulgence.

dhakiyya

No, you aren't.
Everyone has their opinion, and we all have things that work for us and things that don't. To each, their own. I do believe in everything in moderation but can see how it doesn't work for all.

Indeed...and here is another of my opinions:
My thought is that many of the biggest proponents in "everything in moderation" are using it as a crutch and they may not even know it. And that belief may be what is making their attempts at a new dietary lifestyle so difficult to keep. That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know.

You are making an assumption here that a 'moderation' lifestyle is 'so difficult to keep'. It is the easiest thing I've done. I eat pretty much the same way I always have, just in smaller quantities. What's so hard about that?

This is an easy one. Are you telling me that people (on MFP and elsewhere) do not struggle in reaching their dietary goals? That "EIM" has a great track record for success and longevity? I don't believe that's the case and I also don't believe it's just my assumption.

Now, I'll admit, it *is* my assumption that "EIM" is part of the problem for the failure rate of dietary changes, but that "moderation" lifestyle is often not effective seems to be supported by plenty of evidence.

You can see from my ticker that I've overshot my goal by 5lb and now I'm planning on building some more muscle, because I'd rather be 5lb or so heavier than I am now, but with less body fat than I have now (my BMI and body fat percentage are both in the healthy range currently, but I still can lose some more body fat without going into the unhealthy range and more muscle is always good). I eat everything in moderation, and my experience from talking to people on fitness forums like this one and others, people who swing from excessive restriction to unplanned eating of unhealthy foods have more problems sticking to their diet plans, than those who eat unhealthy food in moderation as part of their plan, whether it's for the purpose of spiking the metabolism, or as a psychological release valve from abstention, or from a combination of both. That's my experience from talking to a lot of people online. I'm sure there are exceptions and this is not a scientific study.

I can see why some people with certain issues, e.g. emotional eating, who have trigger foods that once they start they can't stop, might be better off abstaining if they're totally unable to be moderate with those foods. But if you can be moderate I really don't see what the issue is.

tiffanyrose519

You're not the only one, once I found out all the chemicals in a lot of "foods" I won't knowingly eat them. I am very conscious of labels and don't want to put chemicals in my body. I think you would really like the website foodbabe.com, it really opened my eyes to what is really in our food and how to change your lifestyle to avoid them.

corpus_validum

To each, his own. I like food, especially sweets, so I eat it, in small quantities. That's what works for me. For someone else, those are just junk, not something that's worth the caloric hit. As long as we each find a sustainable path to being fit, all is well.

Agreed. Everyone's different with unique medical conditions, and there's more than one route to a fit, healthy body. I don't have any serious medical issues so I find the "everything in moderation" and not restricting anything, along with exercise, to be my preferred method to a healthy and fit lifestyle.

I think moderation boils down to portion control, which is definitely a struggle for many. It was for me too. I grew up in household where we had to finish everything on our plates. So I've had to learn a few tricks to overcome certain destructive habits. For one, I now keep much smaller plates and bowls in the cabinets, and I don't go for seconds. I also treat myself to a single dessert on a daily basis, but only if I've eaten "clean" or exercised a lot that day.

So for me, it wasn't about eliminating all "unhealthy" food choices. I mean I still strive to eat as healthy as possible but don't worry about the occassional bad items. It was more about revising my daily habits to attain a healthier life. It's a lifestyle, not a diet...unless I'm cutting to try to reveal a six-pack during the summer season ;-)

jofjltncb6

It's great to hear that EIM is working for many of you. (And I'm admittedly disappointed that more "not EIM" haven't responded.)

I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.

3foldchord

my thoughts & opinions on this:

1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.

2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.

3. There is a lot more to health than food.

4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.

runmybunsoff

my thoughts & opinions on this:

1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.

2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.

3. There is a lot more to health than food.

4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.

YES.


And I also look at it this way: What people think in terms of the way that I eat is none of my business. That's just how I look at it, no intention to be a buzzkill. Now let me go run and crawl into my bunker in a fetal position and wait for some potential bashings. LOL

dhakiyya

Nothing is off-limits to me. There are things that I would decide against eating, but nothing that I would say "never" to. Maybe if you have a difficult relationship with food, your attitude makes sense, but to me "everything in moderation" works just fine.

I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".

I don't get cravings. I get the desire to eat something. If I get the desire to eat broccoli (which I love, btw) then I'll happily eat it every day. If I get the desire to eat chicken nuggets (which I also rather like) then I'll make it a once a week max thing, keep my portion size reasonable and refrain from ordering fries and a soft drink with them, because I don't like them that much and consider them a waste of calories.

And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.

Okay so this thread isn't for me them thank you for clarifying I know a LOT of people who have succeeded with the everything in moderation strategy, including those who used to go from extreme to extreme (i.e. abstinence to bingeing) who found it easier after they started with the everything in moderation strategy

We are all different though, and everyone has to find what works for them, and I agree if someone has been repeatedly failing then they need to find a different approach.

PANZERIA

It hasn't worked for me. I find that if I do cheat, I start craving junk, so the best way for me to lose has been to completely cut out the junk.

EIM may work for some, but it most certainly doesn't work for me.

dhakiyya

For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.

That I agree with very much. And the opposite too, i.e. those who find that abstinence punctuated by bingeing is stopping them reaching their goals should question whether abstinence is the best strategy for them.

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo

Have you ever heard the real story of a professor who lost weight by eating Twinkies? So your assumption is wrong, sorry.

I understand what you mean & even I gave up eating junk frequently although I still have it occassionally (I'm just a human being who also have a right to enjoy these things). Although personally I eat as clean as possible however I believe that eating everything in moderation works, yes & that includes on processed foods. So to each their own.

And please never push us to believe on your assumptions simply because you don't believe what the majority thinks. Yes you are entitled to your own opinions but you must also learn to respect other people's opinions too.

Huh? Yes, I've heard of that guy, but how is his situation relevant to lead you to believe that my "assumption is wrong"? I'm not saying it is impossible to reach your goals with "EIM", I'm saying that there is another way that may actually be easier (or that may work when "EIM" has not worked). I'm saying that when people have repeated failed attempts, that "EIM" may be a big factor. May. Be. For those who are struggling, it certainly seems (to me) worth questioning.

I'm glad that "EIM" works for you. (I don't believe it has worked for everyone.) I'm not sure where you think I want to take away your "right" to eat what you want. (I don't.) I'm also not sure why you think I'm pushing you to believe any of my assumptions. (I'm not.) I'm also not sure why I need to "learn to respect other people's opinions too". At what point have I disrespected anyone's opinion? (Disagreeing with an opinion =/= disrespecting an opinion.)

At the end of the day, its still about calories in vs calories out. If it didn't worked for others, it simply because they thought they're doing it right but the reality is they're eating on a surplus which is why they fail. Heck you can even fail & struggle even by eating clean. Let's face it, even with this logging tool we always tend to underestimate everything we log while overestimating calories burned. So we thought that we created a deficit but in reality it is the opposite. I've seen a lot of posts here saying they're eating XXX calories & working out for XX hours but still don't lose anything. Those people with medical conditions such as PCOS, underactive thyroid, diabetes (I have two of those myself) thought this formula doesn't work for them (or us) but the reality is that these illnesses are simply metabolic that will cause us to burn fewer calories as we might think. And if there's no change in calorie consumption, then boom! Weight gain.

Now I'm not saying that junk foods are OK because personally I only eat those ocassionally & I eat clean for most of the time. However what I mean is that no matter what the type of diet you follow or whether you believe in EIM or not, it all boils down to calorie consumption.

jofjltncb6

my thoughts & opinions on this:

1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.

2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.

3. There is a lot more to health than food.

4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.

1. I can see this.
2. Agreed, and certainly didn't mean to sound like I was contradicting this.
3. Obviously, but this is admittedly a narrowly-focused MFP forum post and not inclusive of all other health-related factors. =P
4. The MFP forums would be very boring if everyone brought this mindset to it. (Although I'm not entirely convinced it wouldn't be vastly improved.)

CuteAndCurvy83

AllTehBeers

And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.

I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.

I don't understand how the idea you're trying to get across is the same as what you're saying.

If people are actually eating in moderation then they should be able to reach their goals or stay in maintence. I think what you're talking about is less "everything in moderation" and more about the actual relationship with food.

jofjltncb6

For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.

That I agree with very much. And the opposite too, i.e. those who find that abstinence punctuated by bingeing is stopping them reaching their goals should question whether abstinence is the best strategy for them.

Yay! Two opposing sides of an MFP forum discussion have found common ground.

Let this thread be an everlasting monument to this historic event...

...(at least until it spirals out of control and is then mod-nuked into oblivion as if it never even happened).