Everything in moderation? Really?
Replies
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my thoughts & opinions on this:
1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.
2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.
3. There is a lot more to health than food.
4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.0 -
my thoughts & opinions on this:
1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.
2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.
3. There is a lot more to health than food.
4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.
YES.
And I also look at it this way: What people think in terms of the way that I eat is none of my business. That's just how I look at it, no intention to be a buzzkill. Now let me go run and crawl into my bunker in a fetal position and wait for some potential bashings. LOL0 -
Nothing is off-limits to me. There are things that I would decide against eating, but nothing that I would say "never" to. Maybe if you have a difficult relationship with food, your attitude makes sense, but to me "everything in moderation" works just fine.
I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".
I don't get cravings. I get the desire to eat something. If I get the desire to eat broccoli (which I love, btw) then I'll happily eat it every day. If I get the desire to eat chicken nuggets (which I also rather like) then I'll make it a once a week max thing, keep my portion size reasonable and refrain from ordering fries and a soft drink with them, because I don't like them that much and consider them a waste of calories.And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.
Okay so this thread isn't for me them
thank you for clarifying I know a LOT of people who have succeeded with the everything in moderation strategy, including those who used to go from extreme to extreme (i.e. abstinence to bingeing) who found it easier after they started with the everything in moderation strategy
We are all different though, and everyone has to find what works for them, and I agree if someone has been repeatedly failing then they need to find a different approach.0 -
It hasn't worked for me. I find that if I do cheat, I start craving junk, so the best way for me to lose has been to completely cut out the junk.
EIM may work for some, but it most certainly doesn't work for me.0 -
For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
That I agree with very much. And the opposite too, i.e. those who find that abstinence punctuated by bingeing is stopping them reaching their goals should question whether abstinence is the best strategy for them.0 -
At the end of the day, its still about calories in vs calories out. If it didn't worked for others, it simply because they thought they're doing it right but the reality is they're eating on a surplus which is why they fail. Heck you can even fail & struggle even by eating clean. Let's face it, even with this logging tool we always tend to underestimate everything we log while overestimating calories burned. So we thought that we created a deficit but in reality it is the opposite. I've seen a lot of posts here saying they're eating XXX calories & working out for XX hours but still don't lose anything. Those people with medical conditions such as PCOS, underactive thyroid, diabetes (I have two of those myself) thought this formula doesn't work for them (or us) but the reality is that these illnesses are simply metabolic that will cause us to burn fewer calories as we might think. And if there's no change in calorie consumption, then boom! Weight gain.Have you ever heard the real story of a professor who lost weight by eating Twinkies? So your assumption is wrong, sorry.
I understand what you mean & even I gave up eating junk frequently although I still have it occassionally (I'm just a human being who also have a right to enjoy these things). Although personally I eat as clean as possible however I believe that eating everything in moderation works, yes & that includes on processed foods. So to each their own.
And please never push us to believe on your assumptions simply because you don't believe what the majority thinks. Yes you are entitled to your own opinions but you must also learn to respect other people's opinions too.
Huh? Yes, I've heard of that guy, but how is his situation relevant to lead you to believe that my "assumption is wrong"? I'm not saying it is impossible to reach your goals with "EIM", I'm saying that there is another way that may actually be easier (or that may work when "EIM" has not worked). I'm saying that when people have repeated failed attempts, that "EIM" may be a big factor. May. Be. For those who are struggling, it certainly seems (to me) worth questioning.
I'm glad that "EIM" works for you. (I don't believe it has worked for everyone.) I'm not sure where you think I want to take away your "right" to eat what you want. (I don't.) I'm also not sure why you think I'm pushing you to believe any of my assumptions. (I'm not.) I'm also not sure why I need to "learn to respect other people's opinions too". At what point have I disrespected anyone's opinion? (Disagreeing with an opinion =/= disrespecting an opinion.)
Now I'm not saying that junk foods are OK because personally I only eat those ocassionally & I eat clean for most of the time. However what I mean is that no matter what the type of diet you follow or whether you believe in EIM or not, it all boils down to calorie consumption.0 -
my thoughts & opinions on this:
1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.
2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.
3. There is a lot more to health than food.
4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicitaed opinions.
1. I can see this.
2. Agreed, and certainly didn't mean to sound like I was contradicting this.
3. Obviously, but this is admittedly a narrowly-focused MFP forum post and not inclusive of all other health-related factors. =P
4. The MFP forums would be very boring if everyone brought this mindset to it. (Although I'm not entirely convinced it wouldn't be vastly improved.)0 -
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And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
I don't understand how the idea you're trying to get across is the same as what you're saying.
If people are actually eating in moderation then they should be able to reach their goals or stay in maintence. I think what you're talking about is less "everything in moderation" and more about the actual relationship with food.0 -
For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
That I agree with very much. And the opposite too, i.e. those who find that abstinence punctuated by bingeing is stopping them reaching their goals should question whether abstinence is the best strategy for them.
Yay! Two opposing sides of an MFP forum discussion have found common ground.
Let this thread be an everlasting monument to this historic event...
...(at least until it spirals out of control and is then mod-nuked into oblivion as if it never even happened).0 -
Why keep on insisting us that they don't work? The fact that you're getting many posts saying the opposite simply means that your assumption is wrong. EIM or not, if youre eating more than you burn then you're guarantee to gain weight. Period.It's great to hear that EIM is working for many of you. (And I'm admittedly disappointed that more "not EIM" haven't responded.)
I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.0 -
At the end of the day, its still about calories in vs calories out. If it didn't worked for others, it simply because they thought they're doing it right but the reality is they're eating on a surplus which is why they fail. Heck you can even fail & struggle even by eating clean. Let's face it, even with this logging tool we always tend to underestimate everything we log while overestimating calories burned. So we thought that we created a deficit but in reality it is the opposite. I've seen a lot of posts here saying they're eating XXX calories & working out for XX hours but still don't lose anything. Those people with medical conditions such as PCOS, underactive thyroid, diabetes (I have two of those myself) thought this formula doesn't work for them (or us) but the reality is that these illnesses are simply metabolic that will cause us to burn fewer calories as we might think. And if there's no change in calorie consumption, then boom! Weight gain.
Now I'm not saying that junk foods are OK because personally I only eat those ocassionally & I eat clean for most of the time. However what I mean is that no matter what the type of diet you follow or whether you believe in EIM or not, it all boils down to calorie consumption.
What I meant, only said better.0 -
IDK. I like a lot of things that are bad for me (college student yanno, & I have a deep appreciation for good beer) ... I've tried avoiding those things completely in the past, & it worked, but it also made me miserable - EG not being able to eat or drink anything other than water when going out with friends, etc. Yea, I want to lose weight, but I don't want to revolve my entire life around it!
since I started doing MFP I have noticed that I can still eat basically all of the things that I like as long as they fit in my goal. if I want to make something fit I just work enough to make it fit. if it doesn't fit that day then I won't eat it that day, but I'll put it away for some other time when it works. for me, in that sense, "everything in moderation" works.
I can definitely see what you're saying with it not working for some people - it can lure them into a false sense of security. but I guess for myself personally I'd rather be able to eat some crappy things sometimes (I seriously don't care about chemicals in food & can't afford to buy natural/organic anyway) & not beat myself up about it than try to be a health nut 100% of the time. it's too much stress.0 -
And I should have been more clear about this from the beginning...if someone is able to change their dietary habits and reach their goal and maintain while still adhering to "EIM", then that's awesome. No seriously, that is really great. This isn't really for them. This is more for those who have tried and failed...many times...who continue to find the strength to try again, but can't quite seem to get there...or who get there, but can't stay there. It's those people that I want to know that there may be another way, and it doesn't take any more "effort", and in my opinion, may actually be "easier" especially once you get through the early stages of the transition.I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
I don't understand how the idea you're trying to get across is the same as what you're saying.
If people are actually eating in moderation then they should be able to reach their goals or stay in maintence. I think what you're talking about is less "everything in moderation" and more about the actual relationship with food.
Hmmm, those two quote seem very consistent to me. When I say "everything in moderation", I'm talking about the *types* of foods, not the *quantity*. And yes, although I didn't explicitly say this, it is a matter of calories in calories out...but my point is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to adhere to the plan.0 -
Feel better?0
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I've found that if I totally abstain, I will drive myself mad and end up getting depressed or binging and giving up.
However, the two times I've had success, I had planned "cheat" meals (once a week or less) and that was the psychological release valve to get me through the tough times. Both of those times I was successful, I kept the weight off for a year or more and felt liberated.
I fell back into my old habits because of depression and stress.
This third time around, I'm employing the tried and true strategy for me...exercise six days a week...all meals good except for once a week, same day (one of my exercise days)...other than that, running myself into the ground.
I think EIM works better for people like me who bounce at one end of the spectrum to the other depending on their mental state. However, if someone is consistently eating junk and can't seem to get off that wagon, I would agree that getting off the stuff and eating clean for a while will probably be the key.
My mind is my enemy...not my plate. But that's just me.0 -
If it's delicious, it's worth the hit.
I even drink pure DHMO in moderation.0 -
For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
That I agree with very much. And the opposite too, i.e. those who find that abstinence punctuated by bingeing is stopping them reaching their goals should question whether abstinence is the best strategy for them.
Yay! Two opposing sides of an MFP forum discussion have found common ground.
Let this thread be an everlasting monument to this historic event...
...(at least until it spirals out of control and is then mod-nuked into oblivion as if it never even happened).
LOL yay indeed 0 -
I think there is a big difference for me in deciding that I am going to make my grandmother's apple pie recipe (or her coconut cream pie) and deciding that I'm going to eat Twinkies. I'm fine with indulging in high calorie items on special occasions if they are made with real food ingredients. What I do want to give up for good is the highly processed stuff that is full of chemicals. So when I think "all things in moderation" I think "all real food in moderation" especially after I hit my goal weight. I'm probably not going to have chocolate cake any time soon.0
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my thoughts & opinions on this:
1. More like "Most things in Moderation"- and somethings need to be a LOT more strictly moderated than others.
2. To each their own- in their own individual place on this healthy journey. for some it doesn't take much to be a HUGE STEP FORWARD- and berating them for not being on track with the healthy gurus of many years won't do them any good.... BUT other probably should have grown past certain things after so many years of this.
3. There is a lot more to health than food.
4. I really don't care what other people's unsolicited philosophies are. And don't plan on being a giver of copious amounts of unsolicited opinions.
Well said!'
My opinion is that having less restrictions will make people more compliant in the beginning but that peoples diets evolve as their goals, habits and level of knowledge change.
As an example, I see so many people on here who eat crap within their caloric limits for a while, then realise they will be more successful if they pay attention to their macros, then they become more conscious of their micronutrient needs etc. Slowly over time their diet evolves (I know this has happened to me).
There is no one-size fits all. What ever gets people on the road to a healthier life (however fast or slow that may be) has to be a good thing!0 -
Well, for me, I have tried everything. I did atkins, the grapefruit diet, I did vegatarian, primal. I have done diet pills. Nothing has ever worked for me. I always caved in and went nuts which eventually led to giving up. There are certain things that I love that I cannot live without. Namely they are ice cream, cheese cake, ranch dressing, and wine. This time around I am not giving those things up. Do I eat them every week? Only the ranch dressing, but I measure it out and don't go over one serving. The rest of the things I only eat once or twice a month and yes, in moderation, meaning a serving of it.
I have been doing this religiously since May. I haven't lost a ton of weight in a short amount of time, but I have lost consistently. I lost 20 pounds last year in 6 weeks. And I gained it back through the holidays. My philosophy is I eat very healthy 80 percent of the time. But once in a while, I get a treat. As long as I know I can limit myself successfully, I do alright. I will add that the 20 pounds I lost last year had me a size bigger than this time around losing 17 pounds. I am a fully comfortable size smaller than I was after last years loss.
However, I know a lot of people who cannot eat this way, so I understand your theory. Not everybody can just have a slice of pizza or MAYBE two and then stop. They have to eat till they can't move. So while I am living this lifestyle, I know it is definitely not for everyone. I do agree with you though that EIM doesn't mean eating pizza and ice cream every day. Its doing it once in a great while.
My old way of eating used to involve a lot of pizza, pasta, and lots of prepackaged crap. Now I eat fresh veggies and fruit every single day. I usually have a big salad with one meal a day. I stopped using the salt shaker. I stopped drinking pop. I have only had pasta twice since I started all of this. And for the first time ever trying to lose weight, I am HAPPY. I am not cranky, craving, or raving mad. I am just happy with where I am, what I am eating, and who I am becoming.0 -
Why keep on insisting us that they don't work? The fact that you're getting many posts saying the opposite simply means that your assumption is wrong. EIM or not, if youre eating more than you burn then you're guarantee to gain weight. Period.It's great to hear that EIM is working for many of you. (And I'm admittedly disappointed that more "not EIM" haven't responded.)
I still say that there are some out there for whom it has *not* worked, but have been told that it is the only way. For those who have not been able to reach and maintain their goals, I believe EIM is worth questioning.
You really believe that because a couple of dozen people have posted that EIM worked for them that the obvious conclusion is that it has a successful track record with everyone else? And what is this assumption of mine that's wrong?
When I speak in generalities and implications for the MFP community, I am genuinely talking about others and not just myself. I offer this view in response to seeing others struggle, especially long-term, many of whom have expressed that their struggle with cravings and/or their inability to eat certain foods in moderation was their downfall. My opinion, my view is not doctrine. It's just my opinion. And this is not a challenge to what any of you have done in your successes, but is entirely a viewpoint that I offered to spark this very discussion (and to hopefully lead some to reconsider what may not be working for them).0 -
Hmmm, those two quote seem very consistent to me. When I say "everything in moderation", I'm talking about the *types* of foods, not the *quantity*. And yes, although I didn't explicitly say this, it is a matter of calories in calories out...but my point is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to adhere to the plan.
See, I don't get how moderation is NOT about quantity.
EDIT: If they are not succeeding in their goals, then its also not moderation.0 -
I generally agree with the "everything in moderation" line of thinking. Mainly, it's because I never want to feel like i'm depriving myself of anything. That just makes me crave it more. That said, I definitely do my best to eat clean and I usually don't want junk food, fast food, soda, etc. But, there are times when I eat it and I want to know that I give myself that option. I also don't want to have my kids feel that certain foods are off limits. I hope that I'm instilling healthy eating habits in them, but I want them to know that it's ok to indulge in junk foods once in a while.0
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Hmmm, those two quote seem very consistent to me. When I say "everything in moderation", I'm talking about the *types* of foods, not the *quantity*. And yes, although I didn't explicitly say this, it is a matter of calories in calories out...but my point is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to adhere to the plan.
See, I don't get how moderation is NOT about quantity.
EDIT: If they are not succeeding in their goals, then its also not moderation.
Indeed, *all* failed weight-loss attempts can likely be boiled down to a failure to eat an appropriate/moderate amount of calories.
I think what I'm trying to say is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to stay within your calorie limits. That by eliminating certain foods, it may actually be easier to stay within those calorie limits. That eliminating certain "crave-inducing" foods will lead to not having a craving for those foods.0 -
I agree with everything jofjltncb6 has said about eating in moderation in this thread.
"That overcoming what some may even call an "addiction" (but I will just call a "strong reliance on") may not be a lifetime of deprivation that they think it will be, but instead a liberation from the power that food has over their lives. But until they get out from under "everything in moderation", it's a liberation they may never know."
This thought in particular rings true for me. I had no idea how much of my day was consumed by food and it is such a relief to finally have a normal appetite instead of convincing myself that normal, skinny people eat in moderation so that's what I needed to learn how to do.
That turned out to be a bunch of BS -- for me -- it seems I just needed to stop eating the crap that triggers the overeating and insatiable hunger. Not journal about my emotions, put my fork down between bites, drink a glass of water before eating, make bargains with myself to make sure I'm really hungry and not just eating out of boredom or any other nonsensical advice that's just not needed if you cut out what's causing the problem in the first place. YMMV.0 -
Hmmm, those two quote seem very consistent to me. When I say "everything in moderation", I'm talking about the *types* of foods, not the *quantity*. And yes, although I didn't explicitly say this, it is a matter of calories in calories out...but my point is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to adhere to the plan.
See, I don't get how moderation is NOT about quantity.
EDIT: If they are not succeeding in their goals, then its also not moderation.
Indeed, *all* failed weight-loss attempts can likely be boiled down to a failure to eat an appropriate/moderate amount of calories.
I think what I'm trying to say is that eating certain foods may make it more difficult to stay within your calorie limits. That by eliminating certain foods, it may actually be easier to stay within those calorie limits. That eliminating certain "crave-inducing" foods will lead to not having a craving for those foods.
This makes 100% sense, you should have just said that in your OP. It would have been a lot less confusing.0 -
Whatever works for you! Live and let live.
Moderation doesn't work for everyone because some people don't have the will-power to moderate. As for me, I am perfectly capable of eating just a sliver of chocolate cake at a Birthday party, instead of warding it off as E~V~I~L and not indulging even a little bit.. I am also willing to have a big, juicy burger and fries every now and then (and then work out double-time the next morning.) It's worth it to me to be able to indulge like that. As long as one exercises portion control and MODERATION, it is way more realistic and sustainable that many of the "other" methods out there.
I'm glad you found the One True Way.
If anyone needs me, I'll be over here trying to improve my inadequate will-power.
:huh:
ETA: And eating everything in moderation is "way more realistic and sustainable" than Just Eat Real Food (JERF)? Really? This is still just your opinion though, right?0 -
I believe if youre going to cheat - make it worth it. Cocoa Puffs to satisfy a chocolate craving? No. Get a nice, yummy piece of cake from your local bakery and enjoy! Make it worth it.0
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I believe if youre going to cheat - make it worth it. Cocoa Puffs to satisfy a chocolate craving? No. Get a nice, yummy piece of cake from your local bakery and enjoy! Make it worth it.
Yes!
Commit to that craving. Enjoy it.0
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