Explain why "organic" is better?

Options
135678

Replies

  • postrockandcats
    postrockandcats Posts: 1,145 Member
    Options
    I don't generally lean towards the mass-produced organic stuff. If you want to do good by the environment and your local economy, buy at a farmer's market. The reasons organic is "good" has been stated, so I won't repeat it again. ;)
  • dayone987
    dayone987 Posts: 645 Member
    Options
    Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

    E. Coli found in manure can be deadly.

    yes, true, but only when not treated properly in the course of composting. you can't spread most manures directly on fields. this is partly why we have e coli breakouts: because the composting isn't done properly.

    then the other part is what they feed the animals that produce the manure. it's a deadly cycle. it's not about caring for the crops (livestock or crops), it's about turning a fast profit. so with that attitude, it's really clear why we have food safety problems within agribusiness.
    Unless there is a reliable way to ensure that maure is composted correctly there will always be a higher risk with organic foods grown using manure.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
    Options
    No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?

    i'm not a farmer, i don't know what they do (though generally infections aren't fatal, so i feel your question is a bit outrageous)

    This does happen, but not on small farms very often. And it only happens with certified organic. A responsible small farmer won't always be certified, but practices better than certified. A good farmer will raise meat without antibiotics as part of the practice, but may use antibiotics if necessary. A certified organic farm can't do that because of the abuse in the "conventional" farming methods.

    I even hate the term "conventional" because it implies this is how it's done, when really, organic farming has been the only way to farm for as long as agriculture has existed. Chemical farming is less than 100 years old, really only about 60. So much misinformation, so little time to disambiguate.
  • jonward85
    jonward85 Posts: 534 Member
    Options
    meh, i grow my own garden when i can :)....it's fun for the kids too. On that note, i've not noticed a huge difference in organic vs non-organic. I buy whats cheapest, but i love the local farmers markets.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
    Options
    Unless there is a reliable way to ensure that maure is composted correctly there will always be a higher risk with organic foods grown using manure.

    the reliable way to ensure that manure is composted correctly is to keep the farms to a manageable size and distribute locally.
  • epixed
    epixed Posts: 8 Member
    Options
    Hmmm. Crop yields between the two don't differ very much. The expense for organic is typically more: one because it's such a niche market still so there aren't a lot of producers, and two because organic pesticides and the like are often more expensive than non-organic.

    I can't remember why they said so, but all my ag professors at Purdue generally agreed that organic foods aren't as healthy for you. I'm not saying that non-organic is completely better, because many non-organic products are just as bad or worse. It all depends on the farmer, location, and chemicals used in the process of producing the product. My recommendation: start your own garden. Then you can control what is put on it and can research any chemicals/additives you use and will know exactly what you are eating. If you know someone raising cattle (or some other animal), ask them if you can by a portion of a cow. That's what we do. The farmer raises the cow, and we buy half a cow directly from him come butchering time. I think we paid ~$3/lb last year including the butchering cost, but I'm sure it'll be a bit more this year. If you don't know someone, drive out to the country and ask around. I'm sure people will tell you where to go.

    Oh, plus you have to be careful with the word organic. I think the term is too strict and kind of stupid really. If you feed a chicken cookie crumbs, bread, or backfeed the shells, they aren't considered organic because they are consuming animal by-products. The cookies and bread both typically have eggs and milk. So even if the eggs and milk are organic, it screws the whole thing up.
  • omma_to_3
    omma_to_3 Posts: 3,265 Member
    Options
    "With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil. "


    Well, every farmer I know rotates crops. Every.single.year. We rotate between wheat, soybeans,and feed corn. Granted our farmer (we lease our land to the neighbor) only does between 2K and 3K acres a year, so not a huge farming conglomerate. But all the farmers here definitely rotate their crops.

    And "pulling weeds" Really? On THOUSANDS of acres? Wow...so not going to sustain the world.
  • kayemme
    kayemme Posts: 1,782 Member
    Options
    Unless there is a reliable way to ensure that maure is composted correctly there will always be a higher risk with organic foods grown using manure.

    and that's not really true. i get email updates to recalls by the USDA, 95% or more are not organic items.
  • omma_to_3
    omma_to_3 Posts: 3,265 Member
    Options
    I will also say that to date, the ground water in our area is not contaminated. But it is a concern of course. I'd prefer not to live in pesticide alley but hey, it pays the bills. Well, the property tax bill anyway.
  • ShaunMc1968
    ShaunMc1968 Posts: 204
    Options
    //www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/677465-do-you-buy-organic

    See my pots on organic...I think it's the second post.
  • dad106
    dad106 Posts: 4,868 Member
    Options
    I only buy organic because its cheaper at the grocery store. I know thats not always the case, but it just so happens to be that way at Mariano's.

    I shop at Mariano's too in the suburbs of Chicago, and organic is not cheaper by a long shot.... I think you need to take another look at the prices.

    To OP:
    I'm not sure why Organic is better... All I know is Organic Valley Chocolate Milk tastes a whole hell of a lot better then any other chocolate milk I've had... and if it wasn't 4 bucks a half gallon, i'd prob. buy more of it!
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
    Options
    Explain why organic is better? I don't have to explain it, your taste buds will explain it. Go pick up an organic local cantaloupe and a pesticide sprayed conventional cantaloupe and have a taste off.
  • Spanaval
    Spanaval Posts: 1,200 Member
    Options
    For me, eating organic (and I pick and choose) is more about the environment than it is the pesticide residue in the food. Traditional farming is a major contributor to pollution, especially to water sources, and to me, that's a good enough reason to support organic farming practices. I'm generally supportive or small, local operations, farms included, and organic produce tends to come from such sources.
  • ShaunMc1968
    ShaunMc1968 Posts: 204
    Options
    when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "
    Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.

    No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?

    No, we don't let it die - we give it the antibiotics it needs and de-certify the product so it goes into the conventional market.
  • ShaunMc1968
    ShaunMc1968 Posts: 204
    Options
    If "organic" was synonymous with "no genetic engineering" for crops, organic would be better.

    GM...It's the biggest no-no in organics - instant de-certification
  • epixed
    epixed Posts: 8 Member
    Options
    Unless there is a reliable way to ensure that maure is composted correctly there will always be a higher risk with organic foods grown using manure.

    and that's not really true. i get email updates to recalls by the USDA, 95% or more are not organic items.

    Plus, many non-organic farmers use manure too. So the risk isn't really that different between the two.
  • tmos512
    tmos512 Posts: 119 Member
    Options
    Yes, the farming methods are quite different. Many of the chemical pesticides used in conventional farming do stay on the vegetable or fruit, and yes, much research has shown that quite a few of the pesticides used are known carcinogens. Some people like to avoid known carcinogens. I realize that we now live in a world where known carcinogens are everywhere, but I don’t see a problem in making attempt to avoid some of them, if you can.

    The way the weeds are eliminated is different. With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil.

    More on pesticides – they get into the soil and grasses that animals eat, and they most certainly get into the groundwater/drinking water. We’ve done tests. And this is not just affecting humans, it’s affecting animals. Many of the crops (soy and corn, usually) are also fed to the animals we eat and they also drink the water.

    We can talk organically-fed vs. conventionally-fed animals too. There are huge differences. The main one being the feed and the use of hormones and antibiotics.

    There is not enough research out there that shows organic produce is more nutritious than conventionally-grown produce, but there is some initial research out there (though I believe many of the methods used were not very sound). Hopefully more research will come out on this. I’m curious, anyway.

    Many people who switch to organic produce think there is a difference in taste. Whether initially they can taste it or as they get used to it, they try conventionally-grown produce and find there is a difference in taste. The things that taste the most different to me are berries, bananas, and apples.

    I buy organic when I can, because I can, and because I support the farmers and the farming methods used. I think there is plenty of evidence that it is better for the environment. Most of what I buy is also local. I do this because I want to support my community farmers. They make some damn good stuff. It's again, a taste difference. When I moved from CO to WA, a WA apple tasted different. It hadn't been on a truck for days before it got to the grocery store.

    I hope you don’t think I’m being an alarmist or anything. I am just trying to explain the differences. I am not trying to force anyone to eat any differently than they do.

    ^^^
    Like
  • hdsqrl
    hdsqrl Posts: 420 Member
    Options
    Organic fruit (with skin, like apples, etc) tastes like an apple - no metallic/bitter taste on the skin at all. My kids were the first one to pick up on that difference and refuse to eat regular store-bought apples any more. Organic chicken (my experience has been with Smart Chicken) is more dense from not soaking up water/solution as it chills and it's cleaned better than all other chicken I've purchased. We recently went in together with some friends on a locally raised, pasture-fed half of a cow, and the quality of the meat is amazing.

    For me, buying organic whenever possible is a dollar-for-dollar vote in favor of the environment and one more thing I can do to tip the healthy scale in my family's favor. I'm not obsessive about it, but I do notice a difference in the quality and it just feels better to me at the conscious-level when I'm able to support the organic movement.

    Now, that said, I also try to purchase locally whenever possible, as I know "organic" can be interpreted a number of ways, and it's better to buy a local piece of fruit that might carry a trace of pesticides than it is to purchase an organic mango that's been trucked clear from Argentina or something.
  • ShaunMc1968
    ShaunMc1968 Posts: 204
    Options
    Originally posted by me on 22/07/12

    This is my job - I inspect organic and conventional farms for a living. There are certain things which people should definately buy as organic:
    1: Eggs - conventional and free range egg farmers use chemicals in the feeds called Synthatic Amino Acids - some of these are banned in the human food chain as they are carcinogens (can cause cancer) - ironically they can be used in monogastric (single stomach) animal feeds. These chemicals are banned from organic animal feeds.
    2: Milk - conventiol farmers have no restriction on the amount of processed compound feed given to dairy cows - in fact they do not even have to have access to pasture - this means on some dairy farms cattle never set foot in the fields. On orgnaic farms they have to have a minimum of 60% forage on a daily basis and they have to have access to pasture when weather permits. Due to the 60% forage rule most organic dairy farmers feed red clover silage which is high in protein but as a side health benefit this also generates more omega oils in the milk produced.
    3: Fruit and veg if you can afford it - some conventional lettuce for example can be sprayed 10 x - sprays banned in organic production systems.
    4: meat if you can afford it especially pork and chicken - if you have ever seen a broiler house containing 30 - 100,000 birds you would never buy conventional poultry again. Organic birds have to have access to pasture and the stocking densities are massively different. Also pigs in conventional intensive systems is awful - fed and live on slatted floors with a slurry pit underneath them. Organic pigs ahve to have to have access to pasture, wallows and shade - their is nothing finer than seeing an organic pig rooting around a field.
    5: GM depending on your belief and morals. 90% of conventional animals feed will contain GM modified organisms. These are outrightly banned in organic production. Use will result in instant de-certification of all production enterprises in contact with the GM product including fields which the animals have been on.

    Hope this helps to enlighten your decisions,
    S.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Options
    Take a drink of some pesticide and let me know how you feel! :laugh:

Categories