Forced flu shot at work

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  • kodibear123
    kodibear123 Posts: 185 Member
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    I would refuse. Every time I get a flu shot I get very sick!
  • arcticfox04
    arcticfox04 Posts: 1,011 Member
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    I haven't had a flu shot in 17 years. I never seem to get it.
  • kbmnurse
    kbmnurse Posts: 2,484 Member
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    Another example of nurses losing their voices.
  • kbmnurse
    kbmnurse Posts: 2,484 Member
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    I have been a nurse for 32 years never had the flu shot or the flu.
  • agentscully514
    agentscully514 Posts: 616 Member
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    From the third article:

    "A prospective study was conducted to estimate the relative risk of hospital-acquired influenza-like illness (ILI), based on exposures to other contagious individuals. Surveillance of influenza was conducted over 3 seasons."

    I don't know about you but 'hospital-acquired influenza-like illness' tells me that they didn't swab them.

    Additionally, things like the following statement mean that it is not conclusive that the infections where caused by staff:

    "The likely source of influenza transmission for the outbreak was from health care worker contact, as only 15% of the unit staff had been immunized against influenza."

    From the abstract for the second article:

    "Vaccination of health care workers (HCWs) is recommended as a strategy for preventing influenza in elderly patients in long-term care. However, there have been no controlled studies to show whether this approach is effective. During the winter of 1994-1995, 1059 patients in 12 geriatric medical long-term-care sites, randomized for vaccination of HCWs, were studied. In hospitals where HCWs were offered vaccination, 653 (61%) of 1078 were vaccinated. Vaccination of HCWs was associated with reductions in total patient mortality from 17% to 10% (odds ratio [OR], 0.56; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.40-0.80) and in influenza-like illness (OR, 0.57; 95% CI, 0.34-0.94). Vaccination of patients was not associated with significant effects on mortality (OR, 1.15; 95% CI, 0.81-1.64). Results of this study support recommendations for vaccination against influenza of HCWs in long-term geriatric care. Vaccination of frail elderly long-term-care patients may not give clinically worthwhile benefits."

    Show me where it says they were swabbed. Where are there controls regarding other factors? The fact is that other factors were not controlled.

    The first study does state that the patients were swabbed. Where is the proof that the patients from the previous year got the flu from staff? Where are other factors being controlled? What was the flu like during the research year? One year of study does not mean squat.

    I hold a Masters in Nursing Education and do research. These studies are meaningless unless they control factors that can and will affect the outcome. Additionally, I would like to see the actual results and plug them into my own statistical analysis graph. Statistics can be skewed to show whatever the researcher wants, which is why I like to see how they come up with the conclusion.

    On top of that, who are the researchers doing the study for? In other words, who is financing the study? That makes a difference. Many universities will give the results that a corporation wants by skewing their research in order to obtain funding.

    In the case of the second article, you are right, they didn't mention swabbing. I had seen that in another one that I didn't post.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10675165

    you clearly have a strong research background and will be able to find fault with every one of these clinical studies. I get that and honestly don't have the energy, so if you want to "win" this you're welcome to it. however, you are choosing to overlook the conclusions that have been found over and over again, which is that giving vaccination to health care workers HAS been shown to reduce mortality (and flu) among patients, whether you like it or not.
  • anacsitham5
    anacsitham5 Posts: 814 Member
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    I did some research on this after I got sick after getting the vaccine. I definately wouldn't get one. I'd get a note from a doctor. They should not be able to MAKE you get a vaccine.
  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    I have been a nurse for 32 years never had the flu shot or the flu.

    Been alive 30 years. Never had the flu shot. Only had the flu once. It lasted a week. Wasn't the worst thing in the world. I've had colds that were worse.
  • glitteringloke
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    I work in a hospital and we can either take it or sign a waiver (and wear a mask if we get it). I think most people forget that not all hospital employees have contact with actual patients. I work in the basement, in the lab. The only patients near my office are the ones in the morgue. And I doubt if they care if i get a flu shot or not. I'm for many vaccinations, if it's suitable for that demographic (I got my HPV Vaccine just in time!). But the flu is so variable. 4 strains out of how many that exist? I'll bet on my own immune system. thanks.
  • manderson27
    manderson27 Posts: 3,510 Member
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    Had them for 12 years at my last place but you were not forced to have them.
  • HiKaren
    HiKaren Posts: 1,306 Member
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    I would be fine with that as long as my employer was "forced to" give us a group health insurance plan. If we had group health insurance, I would be happy to make that sacrifice.

    The current policy is: Get the Flu..... Come to work sick, and get all your employees sick in the meantime...

    Then make sure they only have 1 sick paid day off per calendar quarter

    Currently I heard that a ex employee, who found a job that includes health ins... He pays $70 per check for his policy... That really sucks because I have to pay $430 per month for mine... And all out of my pocket 100%.... Then if Im sick and have to see the doctor... Add another $50 copay..

    So instead of letting them get me sick this year.. I made sure I was protected with the flu shot, for the first time in my life... And I was one of the only ones this year, who did not get sick.. Good thing I got the shot.
  • saragato
    saragato Posts: 1,154
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    I'm actually disturbed people are fighting over this. Jesus Christ guys, it's a hypothetical question.

    Personally I wouldn't care, if that was what they required then I'd do it. It'd be like arguing that it was mandatory I wash my hands or not wear nail polish or any offensive jewelry. It's trivial. If you honestly have a problem with them wanting this, either talk to corporate or find another job.
  • FrenchMob
    FrenchMob Posts: 1,167 Member
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    I'm actually disturbed people are fighting over this. Jesus Christ guys, it's a hypothetical question.

    Personally I wouldn't care, if that was what they required then I'd do it. It'd be like arguing that it was mandatory I wash my hands or not wear nail polish or any offensive jewelry. It's trivial. If you honestly have a problem with them wanting this, either talk to corporate or find another job.
    Washing hands and wearing jewellery does not present unknown substances into my body. You're not even on the same wavelength with your argument.

    Never had the flu shot in my life. Had the flu twice...lasted 2 days both times. Third day I wasn't 100% but back at work. I'll take that vs sticking guesswork in my body.
  • ARDuBaie
    ARDuBaie Posts: 379 Member
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    you clearly have a strong research background and will be able to find fault with every one of these clinical studies. I get that and honestly don't have the energy, so if you want to "win" this you're welcome to it. however, you are choosing to overlook the conclusions that have been found over and over again, which is that giving vaccination to health care workers HAS been shown to reduce mortality (and flu) among patients, whether you like it or not.

    It is not a matter of winning or losing or anything. It is a matter of wanting concrete evidence. The key word is 'concrete'. Indisputable would work as well.

    I deal with facts that are well supported. I don't assume something, like stating that an infection was most likely caused by staff that were unvaccinated. There are too many variables there.

    You are correct that I would find fault with any study you present simply because that the variables cannot be controlled. What variables, you may ask?

    Visitors - were they vaccinated or not?
    Ministers of faith - were they vaccinated or not?
    The person that was standing next to the patient in the elevator on their way to therapy - were they vaccinated or not?
    Was the patient exposed prior to admission?
    Was the patient vaccinated?
    Was the strain of flu that the patient had one that was included in the vaccination?
    Which nurses took care of the patient? Only those who were unvaccinated? Vaccinated? A mix?
    Was it a really bad flu year? The researched year was a milder year?

    See where I am going? There are too many variables to say that there is a correlation between staff being vaccinated and patients infected with influenza.

    It also has to be kept in mind that a vaccination means that the antibodies are peaked in order to kill the virus quickly. The person will still harbor the virus for a short period of time. Is it possible that a nurse who was vaccinated, but harboring the virus, gave the patient the influenza infection?

    Just too many variables to manage.
  • Megs654321
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    It's a load of crap. If YOU don't want the flu and truly believe the shot will help, then by all means go get your shot. Don't tell me or my coworkers what to do. People are so worried about healthcare workers...how about those caring for your chidren, cooking your food or checking you out at the store?
  • DesireeLovesOrganic
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    This study in The Lancet puts efficacy at about 59% for 18-65 range. Not that effective....

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/fulltext#article_upsell
  • ncthomas09
    ncthomas09 Posts: 322 Member
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    I work in a hospital as well. A Catholic hospital at that. This year they are requiring the flu shot. But you know what was required of me to start my job? A drug test (by blood not urine), a breathalizer (yes to check if I have been drinking), they do labs to check for any recent vaccines and if you aren't up to date on Tetanus, Hep B, etc they are all required before your start date. And the first day of orientation you walk into the lecture hall and recieve your TB skin test.

    I can't tell you how many times a week I walk into patient rooms that are in isolation requiring that I wear a protective gown, gloves and sometimes a mask. Some masks in which I have to be properly fitted for. I wear gloves no matter what room i walk into but still. I feel so gross and germy when I get home I can't wait to take my scrubs off!

    So yes I hate needles and have not previously gotten the shot I will take it. I hope to God all my coworkers do too. For one it prevents us from getting it from patients and for two it prevents us from giving it to the patients. Yes you can wash your hands all you want but hey guess what...it can be airborne sometimes too. No the shot won't cover all strains but it does cover the strain that is most popular that year.

    So in my opinion if you work in health care (and have for any length of time) it is your duty to protect yourself and your patients. So i say suck it up and take it. If you don't want to don't work in healthcare!
  • benjit_t
    benjit_t Posts: 12 Member
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    This is illegal. Consult a lawyer. They can't require you to take a medicine. It's a violation of your human rights. What do you know about this vaccine ? Is it safe ? What if they buy it very cheaply ? What if it's a bad batch ? It's your body. They have no right to dictate what you put in it. I repeat - consult a lawyer.
  • benjit_t
    benjit_t Posts: 12 Member
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    @ncthomas09. You had the choice whether to take the job or not BEFORE you had the shots. The OP has already got the job and is now being required to violate her person in order to keep the job. It's out and out illegal.
  • rjjensen2006
    rjjensen2006 Posts: 2 Member
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    Id get a religious exemption, not for religious reasons, but take advantage of that opting out, flu shots are junk science, making people sick
  • loseweightjames
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    My hospital is demanding that everyone take the flu shot this year. You will be fired unless you have a Dr. Note or religous conviction. How would you feel about this at your work place?

    i'd love it

    also... you work at a hospital. Yeah, you definitely need a flu shot