New York OKs nation's first ban on super-sized sugary drinks

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  • Tracepa98
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    My reasoning is flawed?
    Yes. All of your arguments center around the government taking responsibility for parenting our children. So the government should handle the beverage oversight for our children ? What about sugary breakfast cereal? Should the government step in with oversight as well? After school snacks? Processed foods?

    If we wanted to we could relinquish all of our parental repsonsibility to the government. Consider the technology we have on hand. Most people pay using a debit card at the grocery store. When a parent made a purchase at the store all of data (items that were purchased) could be sent to a government database. The parents grocery list could be analyised to determined the quality of the food. If the foods purchased were deemed unhealthy then CPS could been immediatley dispatched to the home to remove the children from an enviromnment that contained unhealthy foods.

    Allowing the government to raise our children? Hmmm?

    Perhaps the parents should raise their children.

    LOL Wow that was one hell of a leap. My hypothetical was to show a point that rather than assume that this action is an attack on our level of control it is purely an action to educate and advise that quantities of a certain product are not healthy and are deemed bad. Why is everyone jumping leaps from my original statements? Im commenting regarding the limitations of mass quantities of soda...just as the article states. And everyone is coming at me with everything else too. Im not talking about cereals, alcohol, meals or anything else. lol
  • Onaughmae
    Onaughmae Posts: 873 Member
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    Against...I know its a bad idea...the people that are drinking them know its a bad idea...but I am a grown up and this is supposed to be a free country. If I want to do something unhealthy that is only harming me then that is my business.
  • Vguthman
    Vguthman Posts: 15 Member
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    I am against this. A person has the right to do eat and drink what they want whether its the right or wrong decision. So people be healthier sure but forcing something like this one them isnt going to make them change their behaviors. If they were really worried about peoples overall health they would have to ban McDonald's and Burger King and all other fast food cause that is just as unhealthy as a soda even more so.
  • MeganG12345
    MeganG12345 Posts: 66 Member
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    I'd be fine with a warning label, but a ban is ridiculous.

    Though this is from the same man who banned giving away free formula in hospitals and required that new mothers be given "a talk" before allowing them to feed formula to their infants because of the benefits of breast milk. Nanny state much?

    He is a paternalistic pain in the *kitten*.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    <snip>Hypothetical situation. Would a parent (knowing that it was bad for you) continue to give soda to a child in large quantities even if they continued to ask for it? I would hope as a responsible parent you would say no. How is this any different?
    FFS, we're not children.

    No doubt! We are talking about ADULTS here. The government is NOT our mom and dad!

    True and yet most adults act like children. Stubborn and uncaring of our actions no matter what the consequences. Think what you will but I don't believe its going to start riots.

    A riot, by definition, is an act of violence. Violence is unacceptable.
  • bcf7683
    bcf7683 Posts: 1,653 Member
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    Can someone explain to me, rationally, how a ban on selling excessive servings of soda will transform America from a free nation to one under the jackboot of communist oppression?

    The slippery slope argument (it all starts from this one thing and will then mushroom into many other negative things) is fallacious at best and outright politics of fear at worst. Sheesh, I'm not American but even I have more confidence in the robustness of your democracy than that.

    The market will do nothing to stop rising obesity levels - its function is to increase production and consumption. People it seems have difficulty limiting their own portion sizes so what is there left to do? It is all well and good saying people should exercise self control but what if they don't as is clearly the case? How is the social cost of obesity to be paid for then?

    Well in America, the role of government is to protect our liberties. We are the only country that (at least used to) operates under that guiding principle. It isn't the market's responsibility to control demand, neither is it the role of government. Consumers want what they want. It is the role of the market to provide what consumers want, and it is the role of government to provide justice if there is fraud or a breech of contract.

    ^^^^Quoting you- "Consumers want what they want".

    Yes, they do. That is why their happy, soda-loving selves can just buy two if that's what they really want. If they still don't believe in self-control after someone is basically slapping them in the face and telling them no, then they can walk around with two 16 oz cups. No hair off my as$
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    Hello? Fascism is when the government dictates everything. Ever heard of WWII? Mussolini? It is complete totalitarianism - authoritarian regime. The absence of government is laissez faire, otherwise known as "freedom." Communism and free markets are not necessarily opposites. Communism can be authoritarian or it can be completely voluntary. In America, we had small pockets of voluntary communism back in the 1960s. So long as it's voluntary it's fine. Government use of force or coercion is wrong, just as individual use of force or coercion is wrong. It is the "force" part that makes it wrong. It is always wrong to initiate force against someone.

    It seems you may have read too much economic theory of John Maynard Keynes.

    WE, the PEOPLE, are the consumers. Consumers aren't "the other guy." Yes, if there are enough people who desire a product or service, the market CAN and WILL step up and provide that product or service.

    As to your pollution example, that is the same as fraud. That is when the government steps in, when consumers get something other than what they request.

    Facism is not simply a political ideology - it is also an economic ideology.
    Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. Their aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak.[6] In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class.[7] Historian Gaetano Salvemini argued in 1936 that fascism makes taxpayers responsible to private enterprise, because "the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise... Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."[8] Fascist governments encouraged the pursuit of private profit and offered many benefits to large businesses, but they demanded in return that all economic activity should serve the national interest.[9]

    (link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism)

    In short, society should pay for the failure of the unfettered market as I mentioned previously...

    I don't really know what JMK's work really has to do with anything but with regard to your fraud example as being an instance where the government should step in, much like pollution, then surely obesity is, in your own words "when consumers get something other than what they request."?

    JMK is the reason that people believe that government interference in the market is a good thing. Someone who believes his theories is always going to be confused about economics.

    When an act of pollution is committed, it is a violation of property rights. When a customer buys a soda, it's a conscious choice.
  • brendaj39
    brendaj39 Posts: 375 Member
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    My opinion, it was the government who okayed all this extra large servings and now they got us all addicted to it , and now they are going to take it all away...whats next chocolate??? boy there would be alot of PMSing women ready to kill if that would happen....


    and i think high fructose corn syrup is more of a problem than real sugar...i think they need to ban the us of HFCS in foods, that is a horrible chemical they allowed to be used in our foods that we eat...its almost like they are trying to kill us off faster
  • alleykat69
    alleykat69 Posts: 282 Member
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    You can still get free refills. I know most places you eat will give you free refills when eating in.
    What's next?
  • Serafimangel
    Serafimangel Posts: 174 Member
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    We could tax the *kitten* out of unhealthy foods (and the companies) to levy the healthy ones! No kid needs flourescent blue soda, but loads of people cannot even afford fruit. Cheaper fruit and veg and we can make macdonalds and coca cola pay for it!

    Ah, just you wait, when I take over the world...

    Seriously though I think the ban is a good idea, but maybe dealt with wrongly, but serving sizes in the USA are baffling. Granted it is just political posturing though.
  • TinGirl314
    TinGirl314 Posts: 430 Member
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    Sadly I think this is a bad idea.
    You can't ban everything that is unhealthy... where are our personal freedoms?
    Should people get a hint when they look at a 36 ounce soda and say 'wow that might be a lot of sugar' of course they should.
    Eating and living healthy is a personal choice ...just like drinking alcohol.
    You know it's straight up poison to your liver, you see people die from it either by overdose or driving into a tree...but that's legal.

    Yes people can still go out and get soda, and they will...but to put a ban on something that 45% of the country (As seen on wiki answers, msnbc.com) drinks is just...dumb and fruitless. People who are willing to pay 2-3 dollars for a soda with dinner are still going to do so.

    Some people do not want to be healthy....some very healthy people live on diet sodas.
    Each person should be responsible for their own actions.
  • FlaxMilk
    FlaxMilk Posts: 3,452 Member
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    I'm in favor of government intervention for the good of the many, and even I'm not in favor of this. They can't point to a study that shows that these sodas are the main or sole cause of obesity. It's arbitrary and decided on by a panel of 8. If all of NYC voted for this, then maybe.
  • GoldspursX3
    GoldspursX3 Posts: 516 Member
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    Can someone explain to me, rationally, how a ban on selling excessive servings of soda will transform America from a free nation to one under the jackboot of communist oppression?

    The slippery slope argument (it all starts from this one thing and will then mushroom into many other negative things) is fallacious at best and outright politics of fear at worst. Sheesh, I'm not American but even I have more confidence in the robustness of your democracy than that.

    The market will do nothing to stop rising obesity levels - its function is to increase production and consumption. People it seems have difficulty limiting their own portion sizes so what is there left to do? It is all well and good saying people should exercise self control but what if they don't as is clearly the case? How is the social cost of obesity to be paid for then?

    Well in America, the role of government is to protect our liberties. We are the only country that (at least used to) operates under that guiding principle. It isn't the market's responsibility to control demand, neither is it the role of government. Consumers want what they want. It is the role of the market to provide what consumers want, and it is the role of government to provide justice if there is fraud or a breech of contract.

    ^^^^Quoting you- "Consumers want what they want".

    Yes, they do. That is why their happy, soda-loving selves can just buy two if that's what they really want. If they still don't believe in self-control after someone is basically slapping them in the face and telling them no, then they can walk around with two 16 oz cups. No hair off my as$

    It's not your place to decide what is an appropriate serving size or not. If a company offers a food product at a certain portion who are you to say that is too much?

    Yes, we get it, that too much soda is bad. Plenty of other things I enjoy are equally bad. I personally don't drink soda, but get some extra sweet ice tea and I could easily drink a bucket of it. I practice self control and drink seldomly. I don't need big government saying how much I can drink.
  • rhonniema
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    I live in New York.
    Though I do not consume large sugary beverages anymore, I feel that this is stupid.
    If you're going to ban this, then ban high calorie entrees at restaurants.

    When I go to the movies, I usually get a large slushee and share it with my boyfriend.
    That's like my favorite part!
  • gertudejekyl
    gertudejekyl Posts: 386 Member
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    It is BS
  • amberlilies
    amberlilies Posts: 41 Member
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    It's stupid and ineffective. It should be a sin tax on ALL sugar-sweetened beverages (to be fair), the revenues from which should go toward fresh ingredients in school lunch programs and other forms of obesity prevention.

    The amount of hoopla (I'm here in NY) about it is also stupid. The government is rife with insane policies and practices (take one look at this election, for example) but soda is what gets people upset.
  • acksaysbillthecat
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    I thought mandating adding nutritional info was too much against individual business rights, but then when I started using that info to make choices all of the time, I was glad to see it!

    Sugary drinks: same thing, I think it's really against our freedom to choose, but then again, it's a good thing to institute. One of my professors walked around with a 64oz diet drink all of the time. He wasn't obese, but I'm sure he was very unhealthy inside.
  • redraidergirl2009
    redraidergirl2009 Posts: 2,560 Member
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    People are just going to order two drinks or skip the ice instead. Pointless ban. A tax would have been more effective.
  • Birdie
    Birdie Posts: 256 Member
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    Can you not just buy 2 if you are that into your soda?

    This is how the new McDonalds happy meal regulations are backfiring. Instead of buying the new smaller meal for the kids, people are buying the bigger value meal and the kids are getting more than twice the fat and calories they would have in the original happy meal.

    If someone really wants it, they'll find a way to get it.
  • samiam321123
    samiam321123 Posts: 38 Member
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    This law is stupid and will most likely be ineffective. They only banned larger sized drinks, not buying two smaller sizes. All this will leed too is more waste in the form of cups/bottles etc.

    Education is the best way to get people to make more informed choices, not outright taking their choices away.

    I know way too many overweight people who don't even drink soda. If NY were really worried about obesity wouldn't they have made a law that forced all overweight people into making better choices and not just the soda drinkers?