Starvatio mode, excerices cals ect...

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  • kmahlee
    kmahlee Posts: 2
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    Thanks for the info..
    :smile:
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Also, I honestly think you need to understand how freaking ridiculous your so called "creditentials" are. You sound like a cool guy.
    I would never have brought up my credentials unless challenged. I don't think they're very interesting either, however I also told people they could go and do their own research, but hey, it's much easier to sit here and tell me I'm the one that's wrong.

    www.leangains.com
    www.rippedbody.jp
    www.medicalnewstoday.com

    There's three places I get my information from to start with.
  • Rachel_Fontenot
    Rachel_Fontenot Posts: 25
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    Also, I honestly think you need to understand how freaking ridiculous your so called "creditentials" are. You sound like a cool guy.
    I would never have brought up my credentials unless challenged. I don't think they're very interesting either, however I also told people they could go and do their own research, but hey, it's much easier to sit here and tell me I'm the one that's wrong.

    www.leangains.com
    www.rippedbody.jp
    www.medicalnewstoday.com

    There's three places I get my information from to start with.

    I said nothing about right and wrong. I just think its hysterical that you think your credentials match those of a doctor. Courtney is basing this post on what the doctor has said.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
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    This is bad- really, really bad.

    I'm on a diet break, and yesterday I ate 3k calories, and didn't eat breakfast. No obesity here! It feels GRRRREAT! Y'all should try eating once in a while. You'd be a lot less hangry.

    ...and I'm short, and I have hypothyroid.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
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    I still can't figure out why she brought this to the forum.
    If her doctor and nutritionist is right about eating at a VLCD level then do it and stay off the forums.
    In 2-3 months time when she can't even eat a decent meal without having water weight issues or CNS fatigue she will post another topic "eating 1200 calories and not losing anything! HELP!"
    Type it into the search on the forum then come back with your findings.

    You can't just point to 2 overweight people, 1 6 foot tall and the other 5 foot tall and say "eat 1200 calories to lose weight."
    It's stupid.
    The numbers I posted earler were done on a nutrition calculator using formulas that include age, height, weight, body fat% and activity.
    You can't just blanket a number and call it right.
    Unfortunately nutritionist and doctors do that and end up screwing people up.

    Starvation?
    Hardly.
    Go 3 days with no food or nutrients and you could be in "starvation mode".
    Even then if you have the fat to withstand it and the team if doctors to monitor your vitals like the guy in Scotland who went 250+ days fasted, you would still be doing yourself a disservice.

    Why would anyone want to take the most complex and precious machine in the universe and give it the absolute minimum is beyond me.
    Sorry I'm a bit passionate about this but after helping so many people and proving that you can lose weight and have sustained weight loss eating at 1600-3200 calories a day I feel the need to speak up about this.
    Regular average people.
    Some morbidly obese and some looking to gain lean muscle or weight in general.
    It just doesn't compute why you would opt for bare minimum.
  • phoenixjane1
    phoenixjane1 Posts: 16
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    I still can't figure out why she brought this to the forum.
    If her doctor and nutritionist is right about eating at a VLCD level then do it and stay off the forums.
    In 2-3 months time when she can't even eat a decent meal without having water weight issues or CNS fatigue she will post another topic "eating 1200 calories and not losing anything! HELP!"
    Type it into the search on the forum then come back with your findings.

    You can't just point to 2 overweight people, 1 6 foot tall and the other 5 foot tall and say "eat 1200 calories to lose weight."
    It's stupid.
    The numbers I posted earler were done on a nutrition calculator using formulas that include age, height, weight, body fat% and activity.
    You can't just blanket a number and call it right.
    Unfortunately nutritionist and doctors do that and end up screwing people up.

    Starvation?
    Hardly.
    Go 3 days with no food or nutrients and you could be in "starvation mode".
    Even then if you have the fat to withstand it and the team if doctors to monitor your vitals like the guy in Scotland who went 250+ days fasted, you would still be doing yourself a disservice.

    Why would anyone want to take the most complex and precious machine in the universe and give it the absolute minimum is beyond me.
    Sorry I'm a bit passionate about this but after helping so many people and proving that you can lose weight and have sustained weight loss eating at 1600-3200 calories a day I feel the need to speak up about this.
    Regular average people.
    Some morbidly obese and some looking to gain lean muscle or weight in general.
    It just doesn't compute why you would opt for bare minimum.


    I think maybe you need to read things before you start spouting things of sir, your almost as bad as the guy with the list of people he talked to. If you actually read it you would see she posted this because she asked because she was seeing so much conflicting information on here! Maybe you dont know what forums are for but they are to help, you can use constructive critsim as say something different worked for you. But shockingly for you im sure is the news that your body may be different then someone else. For instane my mother at 65 years old rarely eats 1200 calories and guess what she lost 35lbs 14 years ago and she is not struggling to mantain it....So yes for you, you need that many calories too function she never once said she didnt she said that IF your not hungry for them you dont NEED to force yourself to eat more then you want.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Also, I honestly think you need to understand how freaking ridiculous your so called "creditentials" are. You sound like a cool guy.
    I would never have brought up my credentials unless challenged. I don't think they're very interesting either, however I also told people they could go and do their own research, but hey, it's much easier to sit here and tell me I'm the one that's wrong.

    www.leangains.com
    www.rippedbody.jp
    www.medicalnewstoday.com

    There's three places I get my information from to start with.

    I said nothing about right and wrong. I just think its hysterical that you think your credentials match those of a doctor. Courtney is basing this post on what the doctor has said.
    O.o
  • scapez
    scapez Posts: 2,018 Member
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    If you're new to MFP and plug in your stats, you often get the 1200 cals/day recommendation, so naturally you presume 1200 is the magic number, especially if it works initially.

    I was that person once - and 1200 did work - for awhile. Then I plateaued.

    What broke me out of my plateau? Eating more.

    I learned a lot here, probably the most important lesson was that you need to eat to fuel your body...there is no one number that works for everyone, you need to find that number that works for you, but a VLCD works for no one, unless your goal is to waste away and lose lean body mass.

    Just because "someone's" doctor or nutritionist told them "something" that does not make it the golden rule for "all". If you're new-ish here, please keep that in mind.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    Also, I honestly think you need to understand how freaking ridiculous your so called "creditentials" are. You sound like a cool guy.
    I would never have brought up my credentials unless challenged. I don't think they're very interesting either, however I also told people they could go and do their own research, but hey, it's much easier to sit here and tell me I'm the one that's wrong.

    www.leangains.com
    www.rippedbody.jp
    www.medicalnewstoday.com

    There's three places I get my information from to start with.

    I said nothing about right and wrong. I just think its hysterical that you think your credentials match those of a doctor. Courtney is basing this post on what the doctor has said.

    I didn't see where he was comparing his credentials to a doctor nor bragging on himself. Bottom line is he is right and doctor's are fallible. Particularly in the area of nutrition as they don't study much of it. Most doctors will refer to a registered dietician as they know they don't have adequate knowledge in this area. The fact that the OP is telling what a doctor said really carries no weight with me.

    I am a professional chef with a lot of nutritional training. If you gave me a choice and it was life or death and I had to chose between the info in the OP and what Ironanimal, helloitsdan or psulemon is saying, I'd take them all day long. Their recommedations line up both with my training and all my self study. So you might want to get off the whole deal with Ironanimal's credentials and get back on the topic.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

    Are you a doctor? Because OP was quoting a doctor.

    I agree with everything the OP doctor said.

    Starvation mode is a ridiculous myth and numerous studies have been done to show that it only really happens in extreme situations and/or EDs. Here's one such study:

    http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

    There is no reason to stuff yourself and make yourself sick eating back exercise cals either, as someone else mentioned. If I tried to eat back all my exercise cals, I'd probably throw up from being so full.

    Everyone should really just use common sense when they eat and exercise. If you are truly hungry (not just bored, craving a flavor etc.) then eat something sensible, if you eat an unhealthy meal or snack once in a while don't freak out-- just move on and if you are finding you don't have enough energy to walk around or function, then eat more and/or see a doctor.

    I really wish people would stop quoting this blog. If you actually look at the studies that this is based on you will find that yes, people start to lose muscle primarily at a very low BF%. They DO NOT show that you lose no muscle above that BF%.


    http://www.ajcn.org/content/83/5/1068.full which is a study conducted by Freidl et al (which is the group that conducted the studies that blog was based on). What the study actually shows is that you will lose LBM.

    From the same series of studies:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10797147


    <snip> After 8 wk, most of group 1 achieved a minimum body fat, serum 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine (T(3)) was below normal (78 +/- 20 ng/dl), testosterone (T) approached castrate levels (4.5 +/- 3.9 nmol/l), insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) declined by one-half (75 +/- 25 microg/l), and cholesterol rose from 158 +/- 31 to 217 +/- 39 mg/dl<snip>

    I particularly like the castrate levels of testosterone!

    Edited to fix typos
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    If you're new to MFP and plug in your stats, you often get the 1200 cals/day recommendation
    Indeed. it is utterly brain dead to apply an "if answer < 1200 then answer = 1200" algorithm and then start the "eating back" nonsense from 1200. Some real flaws in what MFP does.

    Hence you get people recommending different approaches, like Dan''s -20% or fat2fit's eat for the person you want to be, and the innocent observer is left completely confused. A bigger mess I've yet to find.
  • love4fitnesslove4food_wechange
    love4fitnesslove4food_wechange Posts: 6,897 Member
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    this was such a pointless thread and added nothing to the debate on starvation mode. I'm glad it helped you OP but seriously...nothing about it actually refuted the concept of starvation mode.
  • Courtney_7790
    Courtney_7790 Posts: 56
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    Thank you everyone for your opionons, I want reiterate that I was not pin pointing anyone of you as being wrong or saying your method was wrong, I joined this website a week ago I saw alot of conflicting information, Some which i thought i knew about but i wanted to be sure so I simply asked someone who had the credentials to give me an informed answer. I also want to say that I was saying she said some people do not need 1200 calories and went on to say that if eating less then that is sunstainable for the rest of your life and you are not just doing it for fast results, Just showing the all people are different and they is no one sure fire thing.
  • IronPlayground
    IronPlayground Posts: 1,594 Member
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    Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

    Are you a doctor? Because OP was quoting a doctor.

    I agree with everything the OP doctor said.

    Starvation mode is a ridiculous myth and numerous studies have been done to show that it only really happens in extreme situations and/or EDs. Here's one such study:

    http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

    There is no reason to stuff yourself and make yourself sick eating back exercise cals either, as someone else mentioned. If I tried to eat back all my exercise cals, I'd probably throw up from being so full.

    Everyone should really just use common sense when they eat and exercise. If you are truly hungry (not just bored, craving a flavor etc.) then eat something sensible, if you eat an unhealthy meal or snack once in a while don't freak out-- just move on and if you are finding you don't have enough energy to walk around or function, then eat more and/or see a doctor.

    I really wish people would stop quoting this blog. If you actually look at the studies that this is based on you will find that yes, people start to lose muscle primarily at a very low BF%. They DO NOT show that you lose no muscle above that BF%.


    http://www.ajcn.org/content/83/5/1068.full which is a study conducted by Freidl et al (which is the group that conducted the studies that blog was based on). What the study actually shows is that you will lose LBM.

    From the same series of studies:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10797147


    <snip> After 8 wk, most of group 1 achieved a minimum body fat, serum 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine (T(3)) was below normal (78 +/- 20 ng/dl), testosterone (T) approached castrate levels (4.5 +/- 3.9 nmol/l), insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) declined by one-half (75 +/- 25 microg/l), and cholesterol rose from 158 +/- 31 to 217 +/- 39 mg/dl<snip>

    I particularly like the castrate levels of testosterone!

    Edited to fix typos

    Wait? You're not a doctor! How dare you post science! Who do you think you are? Oh, I know... Someone who is logical and can read. It all makes sense now!
  • theartichoke
    theartichoke Posts: 816 Member
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    You have Iron, mma, Dan and Sara on here doing their dead level best to not allow yet another misguided, ill-informed post on this topic ooze its way onto the forums unchecked. They're right and for the life of me I can't understand how they can still be arsed enough to care. Consider yourselves lucky. Learn something.
  • Courtney_7790
    Courtney_7790 Posts: 56
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    this was such a pointless thread and added nothing to the debate on starvation mode. I'm glad it helped you OP but seriously...nothing about it actually refuted the concept of starvation mode.

    Im sorry that it wasnt helpful to you, It was very helpful for me so I shared it. She stated that starvation mode is not something that just happens if your not getting 1200 calories because maybe your particular body doesnt need them. Starving is a real thing however people who are really starving and have been are not gaining weight, the weight gain come from when you are eating less then your body needs because you are trying to lose weight fast then returning to many more calories therefore your body gains weight because it is used to a low amount of calories. Meaning if you truly dont need 1200 calories you wont need them in a year either and you wont gain weight because you wont start eating more.

    And you can disagree once again i was just clarifing since you seemed to not understand what i was trying to say.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    You have Iron, mma, Dan and Sara on here doing their dead level best to not allow yet another misguided, ill-informed post on this topic ooze its way onto the forums unchecked. They're right and for the life of me I can't understand how they can still be arsed enough to care. Consider yourselves lucky. Learn something.

    I would add SHBoss, Usedtobehusky and psulemon to your list also. Gotta fight BS where you find it!
  • Lkatinas
    Lkatinas Posts: 14 Member
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    Awesome! I really appreciate that you provided expert advice and reliable information instead of critical and demeaning comments that other people like to post on here. Very beneficial :) Thank you!!!
  • wendyskyegger
    wendyskyegger Posts: 1
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    thank you for sharing :)
  • theartichoke
    theartichoke Posts: 816 Member
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    You have Iron, mma, Dan and Sara on here doing their dead level best to not allow yet another misguided, ill-informed post on this topic ooze its way onto the forums unchecked. They're right and for the life of me I can't understand how they can still be arsed enough to care. Consider yourselves lucky. Learn something.

    I would add SHBoss, Usedtobehusky and psulemon to your list also. Gotta fight BS where you find it!

    Added.
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