Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property?

Personal choice and responsibility ends when you do something in public that harms someone else, and 2nd hand smoke is more deadly than doing it yourself. But saying that...I do think that in bars you should be able to allow smoking. But any place that allows children, I think it should be banned.

I also live in Ohio, and it was the best thing that happened in my opinion.

I had a procedure done on Monday and the woman in the bed next to me had emphysema severely and never smoked a day in her life and neither did her parents etc, she could not recall ever being around cigarette smoke so it may not entirely be the cigarette smoke thats causing such health problems, it could be all the pollutants in the air we breathe.

Until companies stop polluting the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food they serve us and everything else, I will continue to enjoy my only vice, I mean after all it is perfectly legal.

I am very considerate of non-smokers as long as they give the same consideration.

Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.

I am going through this thread and I am not sure it's been brought up but, in my experience, smokers tend to litter. A LOT. In that respect, I would say they are selfish scum.

Not all. I will go out of my way to find an ashtray or trashcan or put a butt in my pocket before throwing it on the ground. I've seen plenty of non-smoking people that litter, so that is a pretty generalized stereotype. :flowerforyou:

Then you appear to be in the minority of smokers. I drive an hour to and from work every day, mostly on two lane roads, so when you get behind someone, you tend to be behind them for quite a while. Most of the people that I see smoking in their car throw their butts out the window when they are done,

In order to walk from my house to the downtown area, we have to walk through a congested intersection with gravel shoulders. It's disgusting how many of hundreds and thousands of cigarette butts are on the shoulder there. If you want to talk about legislature that should be implemented immediately, I'd love to start seeing $50-$100 tickets being handed out for littering (for any kind of litter, but definitely keep after the cigarette butts).

Believe what you want. The bars have seen a huge dip in revenue, especially int he winter time, and the bowling allies cant get people to go there. Read any American paper and you will see. Doesnt take a lot to research it.

They haven't in Ohio where I live. Bars and clubs are just as busy (or slow) as they were prior to the ban. Restaurants actually seem to have LONGER wait lists and are busier.

"Those who trade a little liberty for a little security will loose both and deserve neither."-Ben Franklin

I plan to quit soon but sadly this thread reminds me why I love smoking so much.

I get to piss off uptight people.

I'm not uptight at all. But smoking bothers me tremendously. I can not breathe in it. It also irritates my eyes. I don't have a problem with people smoking. It is their choice. But I think there should be designated smoking areas in any establishment that allows it.

Some people get deathly ill from peanut dust. I don't plan to stop eating those either.

You people have already won that fight in more and more places. Not only are smokers designated to a certain area, anymore you just can't smoke inside. Anywhere. Then they start making rules about how far you have to be from a building to smoke. It never ends.

I won't tell you how to live your life if you don't tell me how to live mine.

Yes, thats another one that bugs me. My daughter came home from school with a note that said no peanut butter sandwiches are allowed at lunch because there is a kid at school that is allergic to peanuts. So because one kid has an allergy, thousands cant have a sandwich. Instead of the parents of this kid taking precautions for their child, they expect everyone else to cater to them. How is that fair to the kids that love peanut butter? Just more of the same BS>

This is an ignorant post. There are children out there that have severe allergies to peanuts where simply being touched by someone who has handled peanuts/peanut butter causes them to go in to anaphylactic shock, which if not dealt with quickly can cause death, and this does not need scientific proof. What are parents supposed to do? Not send their kids to school because your daughter wants to eat her sandwich? So children could lose their lives or just not leave a bubble? Please, pull your head out of your butt and start thinking of others. ps. having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.

BTW, the initial discussion here is if smokers are selfish or a persecuted minority. At no point did the original poster say, hey give me your opinion on how small businesses are affected by the smoking bans. You turned it into that.

You found a posting from the Heartlander...Really?....Come on man...

Neither, some smokers are considerate, but there are a few who are not and don't take into account their surroundings when lighting up.

I am glad smoking is banned in public places here i the UK, I don't want to breathe other people smoke in, but fully respect those that are considerate.

Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.

That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.

Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.

That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.

Change your mind if you come to California. It is illegal to smoke in a car with a child inside. Yeah!!

Persecuted Minority.

I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.

I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.

I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.

I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:

Persecuted Minority.

I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.

I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.

I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.

I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:

The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries