New Study Reveals: Plateaus are NOT real...
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I think you have to be careful telling people their experiences are excuses. It gets really offensive to many, and people's defenses come out. This is such a personal journey and there are differences between men and women too. You should just share your experience and leave it at that.0
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There are always exceptions to the rule as I have written. I think what I propose would work for 95% of people and would be more valuable than a lot of the misinformation on this site.I disagree though, I was in a plateau for 6 months, yet i at pretty good for the most part
.About your numbers matching up, they didn't, you got lucky. For example, if i asked someone who doesn't know how to square a number in math, "what does ^ mean? Here is your example. 2^2 = 4" they might say ^ means to add the same number to itself.
I'm sure something was going on with your body. Something has to be going on. If you are taking in a lot less calories than you are burning but not losing weight over 6 months something abnormal is going on. For my purposes though and for what I shared I don't care about abnormal. I care about the 99% that could benefit and don't have the very strange record that you mention.
Please comment on the bottom of a post, not the top. People read a post from top to bottom. in reply to your post. That's the thing, I stalled out at 1,300 calories for a month, i said screw it and got off that. I stalled out at 3,000 for about 6 months. That's the point I am making, you never really know if you're over or under. IF you're truly eating under maintenance calories and not losing weight it's probably due to dieters edema. This is when people hold on to water. They can hold on to a lot of water, even up to 20lbs or more. Not going to repeat myself, i went in to more detail about this on my blog if you're interested.
http://physiquelore.com/weight-loss-plateaus-edema/
Okay, the bottom then.
Read you blog. I gotta tell you I think there are so many opinions on weight loss out there. Sure, some people will have what happen what you pointed out. Repeating myself again... there will be exceptions.
But what I am saying is posting to a spreadsheet could be another valuable added tool for 95% of the people here. Plateaus are real for sure. But I think just a much of the time there is a physical reason there are also :"mental" reasons. People have heard about plateaus and just assume they are on one. BUT if they look at their numbers, most of the time they will realize that they were just using that as an excuse.
wrong0 -
been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year
I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time
upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works
I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks
so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work
not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:
martyxx0 -
been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year
I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time
upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works
I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks
so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work
not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:
martyxx
lol :drinker:0 -
I think you have to be careful telling people their experiences are excuses. It gets really offensive to many, and people's defenses come out. This is such a personal journey and there are differences between men and women too. You should just share your experience and leave it at that.
But that is the major problem for a lot of people with weight problems. Food is a drug for many. Saying you are on a plateau is an excuse I guess a good chunk of the time, and if you are objective one should take a good look in the mirror and be honest about it. A good test is to crunch the numbers. If the number show.. "er hey..... I now see that I have been eating too much" then you were never REALLY on a plateau. They have they need to think about what else might be going on.
95% of people who lose weight gain it back. It's a fact. google it you will find the study regarding this. What we are doing now is NOT working. So crunching the numbers is one way to find out if you are just lying to yourself. I mean even the numbers lie since most people over report their exercise and under report their calories (you can google the studies on this one too). So, even the spreadsheet can "lie".
My point is that a plateau is often a lame excuse for what is really going on. Yes, plateaus are real. But if you ask 100 people who say they are on a plateau and don't know why they are not losing don't you think a good chunk of them are really just not being honest with themselves? AND a good chunk of them it is for real. Something funky really is going on. But you can't really know until you crunch your numbers.
But its all in the results. If you are getting good results without doing any of this- BRAVO! Really, I'm very happy for you. In fact, I wish everyone can achieve their dreams and goals in life.0 -
Ouch!
^^^DUDE even a pu$$y can do a simple body weight pull up and he does it manly over hand style and not underhand and this is an internet opinion and fact because I have picture proof.. :laugh:
To the OP, good job on keeping notes. That is something that many fail to do when starting a fitness journey. I personally believe that the "plateau" is over played. People don't know what a true plateau is.0 -
been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year
I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time
upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works
I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks
so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work
not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:
martyxx
sorry to hear that. might be a good idea to crunch the numbers in a spreadsheet. might reveal some trend. try it, if you have not already. good luck!0 -
wow you really do think you know it all, don't you?! Wait till you are closer to goal and then we shall see if your plateau theory stands. You really haven't been at this long enough to think you have discovered the secret to weight loss. Do you really think you will last counting and crunching numbers for the rest of your life?? I sure as hell will not be 80 years old and tracking every bit of food going into my mouth. I have gone months without tracking and have gotten really good at figuring out what I need to be doing without the numbers in the way. We are all different and our journeys are different. Let people be. People know if they are doing right by their bodies. They really do. You don't need to point it out to them. At this point in your journey, you should just be sharing your own experiences and learning as much as you can, not inventing science out of your own research. That is not science as others have pointed out to you.0
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wow you really do think you know it all, don't you?! Wait till you are closer to goal and then we shall see if your plateau theory stands. You really haven't been at this long enough to think you have discovered the secret to weight loss. Do you really think you will last counting and crunching numbers for the rest of your life?? I sure as hell will not be 80 years old and tracking every bit of food going into my mouth. I have gone months without tracking and have gotten really good at figuring out what I need to be doing without the numbers in the way. We are all different.
you know, this is a good forum to be honest. Also, for sure should be nice and respectful also.
Actually I know I DO NOT know it all. In fact, I don't think I know much at all. I am really looking forward to learning more as more objective obesity studies that are sure to released. Now opinions are all over the place, even in the scientific community. I hope that there will be more agreement in the future so people can just get down to the business of getting healthy rather than wasting their time arguing here all day.
One thing I do know: The vast majority of people would benefit from being able to look at their results in a spreadsheet format.
And I don't think anyone would have to enter numbers the rest of their lives. But frankly, I think some people probably would have to if it gives them the discipline needed to keep their bodies healthy. It depends on the person.
Anyway, didn't mean any offense. It's interesting and enjoyable to chat with others about a topic like this. 0 -
There are always exceptions to the rule as I have written. I think what I propose would work for 95% of people and would be more valuable than a lot of the misinformation on this site.I disagree though, I was in a plateau for 6 months, yet i at pretty good for the most part
.About your numbers matching up, they didn't, you got lucky. For example, if i asked someone who doesn't know how to square a number in math, "what does ^ mean? Here is your example. 2^2 = 4" they might say ^ means to add the same number to itself.
I'm sure something was going on with your body. Something has to be going on. If you are taking in a lot less calories than you are burning but not losing weight over 6 months something abnormal is going on. For my purposes though and for what I shared I don't care about abnormal. I care about the 99% that could benefit and don't have the very strange record that you mention.
Please comment on the bottom of a post, not the top. People read a post from top to bottom. in reply to your post. That's the thing, I stalled out at 1,300 calories for a month, i said screw it and got off that. I stalled out at 3,000 for about 6 months. That's the point I am making, you never really know if you're over or under. IF you're truly eating under maintenance calories and not losing weight it's probably due to dieters edema. This is when people hold on to water. They can hold on to a lot of water, even up to 20lbs or more. Not going to repeat myself, i went in to more detail about this on my blog if you're interested.
http://physiquelore.com/weight-loss-plateaus-edema/
Okay, the bottom then.
Read you blog. I gotta tell you I think there are so many opinions on weight loss out there. Sure, some people will have what happen what you pointed out. Repeating myself again... there will be exceptions.
But what I am saying is posting to a spreadsheet could be another valuable added tool for 95% of the people here. Plateaus are real for sure. But I think just a much of the time there is a physical reason there are also :"mental" reasons. People have heard about plateaus and just assume they are on one. BUT if they look at their numbers, most of the time they will realize that they were just using that as an excuse.
My spreadsheet brought great insight, I do get what you're saying. I don't disagree with that. There are real plateaus, and imaginary ones.(Eating at maintenance and thinking you're eating below maintenance). If you look closely at what you're saying, you make it sound like "plateaus aren't real, just track your food more carefully." If i eat above maintenance and track intensively doesn't mean i'll drop body fat. That's the point that you're leaving out. The spread sheet is assuming everyone is being accurate with their calorie counting. You're saying "use this spread sheet and you'll lose weight." A lot of people miscalculate and estimate incorrectly. In general though, i will agree with you, a spreadsheet can bring good insight to what you're doing.
Maybe you took me wrong. Sometimes things read differently than you intend. I don't think I am that black and white as you state. I am saying I think a good chunk (half? who knows...) are imagined. Bringing this point to light is important and for many people may not have even thought of it as an option.
Humans have survived up to this point I think because we are overly optimistic. However, i don't think it serves us well when we think about how much we are really eating and exercising.
http://upstart.bizjournals.com/views/columns/natural-selection/2007/11/28/Human-Brain-Hardwired-for-Optimism.html?page=all0 -
Really interesting post, thanks!0
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here's another study about how humans are overly optimistic. very interesting. I'm glad were like that though. It's hard to cope without it. Hell, almost every major people group in the world believes they are going to live again after they die. Very optimistic! I hope it is true!
http://io9.com/5901251/are-humans-too-optimistic-for-their-own-good0 -
For me, it's certainly true.
Times I've stopped losing are when calories in have equalled calories out
I still suggest this is true for everyone, but do accept that in some cases the body may have altered 'calories out' - it's burning less than we think.
I've been uisng a motoactv to monitor daily activity and even doing a reasonable bit often burn only JUST more than MFP says for the level 2 (one above sedentary); if you add in miscalculating food (packaging, weights, missing the oil used in cooking, say) and what could be a 500kc deficit can easily be eating at TDEE.
If I was just using MFP TDEE and exercise figures, I'd be over-eating by a fair bit pretty regularly.0 -
Bump0
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For me, it's certainly true.
Times I've stopped losing are when calories in have equalled calories out
I still suggest this is true for everyone, but do accept that in some cases the body may have altered 'calories out' - it's burning less than we think.
I've been uisng a motoactv to monitor daily activity and even doing a reasonable bit often burn only JUST more than MFP says for the level 2 (one above sedentary); if you add in miscalculating food (packaging, weights, missing the oil used in cooking, say) and what could be a 500kc deficit can easily be eating at TDEE.
If I was just using MFP TDEE and exercise figures, I'd be over-eating by a fair bit pretty regularly.
That's another good point. The exercise and calorie values used for MFP are often wrong. I track my calories by measuring portions most of the time. But even then I'm sure there is some error.
Thank you for sharing your results. Seems like spreadsheets are good for some, but not for others.. interesting. Hardly a scientific sampling though since people looking at this probably have some significant interest and/or emotion toward this topic either way.0 -
Here's the spreadsheet I made for everyone. Hope it works. Never used google before for this.
Very basic, but hopefully will serve the purpose of entering data to see where you are at.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiJHvhndZJWWdHdUa0RQby1BcldsU0g4WncwWmNtVnc#gid=0
please contact me should you have any problems with it.
To calculate BMR go here:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html
NOTE: I motified my number down from 2964 to 2500. I suspect you will need to do something similar to get the numbers to match up, and hopefully allow you to do some realistic goal setting over the long term.0 -
i always thought ...a stall is a month or more of no weight loss and a plateau is a few days/weeks.... doesn't really matter which...one has to keep on trucking in your weight loss journey....(BEING HONEST IN ALL YOU DO) eventually the body starts to lose the pounds again.0
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My One persons study. It is not scientific... but I think is insightful. By not scientific I mean 100's of people would need to do something similar to what I have done and then see what the results are. So, my results are extremely subjective. Honestly, its just a provocative blog headline to get some attention.What study are you referring to?
So based on results of what worked for you, you conclude that no one can possibly experience a plateau that lasts longer than a couple weeks?
OK then ...0 -
I can't comment on whether plateaus are a real phenomenon (though I do think most "plateaus" are caused by one's failure to follow one's plan), I do agree with you on one thing:
spreadsheets are key.
For more than a year I logged my weekly losses on a spreadsheet. When I had weeks where I didn't lose, I'd go look at my average and see that I was right on track. My monthly averages almost always lined up perfectly to my calculated deficit. I'd go 2 weeks with nothing then - bam - 4 pounds gone.
"If I stuck to my plan the weight loss plan results would show up sooner or later."
I can't agree more. I lost 2 pounds a week on average as long as I wanted to. It wasn't until I was 10-20 pounds from goal that I purposely slowed things down. I never had a plateau.
It's easy to get frustrated if you're only looking at what you lose this week. When you average out your losses over a month or more, it's really enlightening.
What layout did you use for your spreadsheet? I tried to make one and it got really messy really quickly (me and Excell aren't friends) so any tips you have would be appreciated!0 -
You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.
You need to read up about the hormones that your body produces due to calorie deficits for extended period.0
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