New Study Reveals: Plateaus are NOT real...

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Replies

  • NeverGivesUp
    NeverGivesUp Posts: 960 Member
    I think you have to be careful telling people their experiences are excuses. It gets really offensive to many, and people's defenses come out. This is such a personal journey and there are differences between men and women too. You should just share your experience and leave it at that.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,543 Member
    I disagree though, I was in a plateau for 6 months, yet i at pretty good for the most part

    .About your numbers matching up, they didn't, you got lucky. For example, if i asked someone who doesn't know how to square a number in math, "what does ^ mean? Here is your example. 2^2 = 4" they might say ^ means to add the same number to itself.
    There are always exceptions to the rule as I have written. I think what I propose would work for 95% of people and would be more valuable than a lot of the misinformation on this site.

    I'm sure something was going on with your body. Something has to be going on. If you are taking in a lot less calories than you are burning but not losing weight over 6 months something abnormal is going on. For my purposes though and for what I shared I don't care about abnormal. I care about the 99% that could benefit and don't have the very strange record that you mention.

    Please comment on the bottom of a post, not the top. People read a post from top to bottom. in reply to your post. That's the thing, I stalled out at 1,300 calories for a month, i said screw it and got off that. I stalled out at 3,000 for about 6 months. That's the point I am making, you never really know if you're over or under. IF you're truly eating under maintenance calories and not losing weight it's probably due to dieters edema. This is when people hold on to water. They can hold on to a lot of water, even up to 20lbs or more. Not going to repeat myself, i went in to more detail about this on my blog if you're interested.
    http://physiquelore.com/weight-loss-plateaus-edema/

    Okay, the bottom then.

    Read you blog. I gotta tell you I think there are so many opinions on weight loss out there. Sure, some people will have what happen what you pointed out. Repeating myself again... there will be exceptions.

    But what I am saying is posting to a spreadsheet could be another valuable added tool for 95% of the people here. Plateaus are real for sure. But I think just a much of the time there is a physical reason there are also :"mental" reasons. People have heard about plateaus and just assume they are on one. BUT if they look at their numbers, most of the time they will realize that they were just using that as an excuse.


    wrong
  • martymum
    martymum Posts: 413 Member
    been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year

    I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time

    upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works

    I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks

    so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work

    not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:

    martyxx
  • NeverGivesUp
    NeverGivesUp Posts: 960 Member
    been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year

    I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time

    upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works

    I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks

    so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work

    not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:

    martyxx

    lol :drinker:
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    I think you have to be careful telling people their experiences are excuses. It gets really offensive to many, and people's defenses come out. This is such a personal journey and there are differences between men and women too. You should just share your experience and leave it at that.

    But that is the major problem for a lot of people with weight problems. Food is a drug for many. Saying you are on a plateau is an excuse I guess a good chunk of the time, and if you are objective one should take a good look in the mirror and be honest about it. A good test is to crunch the numbers. If the number show.. "er hey..... I now see that I have been eating too much" then you were never REALLY on a plateau. They have they need to think about what else might be going on.

    95% of people who lose weight gain it back. It's a fact. google it you will find the study regarding this. What we are doing now is NOT working. So crunching the numbers is one way to find out if you are just lying to yourself. I mean even the numbers lie since most people over report their exercise and under report their calories (you can google the studies on this one too). So, even the spreadsheet can "lie".

    My point is that a plateau is often a lame excuse for what is really going on. Yes, plateaus are real. But if you ask 100 people who say they are on a plateau and don't know why they are not losing don't you think a good chunk of them are really just not being honest with themselves? AND a good chunk of them it is for real. Something funky really is going on. But you can't really know until you crunch your numbers.

    But its all in the results. If you are getting good results without doing any of this- BRAVO! Really, I'm very happy for you. In fact, I wish everyone can achieve their dreams and goals in life.
  • AntWrig
    AntWrig Posts: 2,273 Member
    h-iB-1RnKEW5Q-72IDZ0xw2.jpg
    22872058_2818_thumb.jpg

    ^^^DUDE even a pu$$y can do a simple body weight pull up and he does it manly over hand style and not underhand and this is an internet opinion and fact because I have picture proof.. :laugh:
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQH2Blz-eB0me94Na8B4D9oS4uD-a8D9ATDZh3-U54u6stMGKK
    Ouch!

    To the OP, good job on keeping notes. That is something that many fail to do when starting a fitness journey. I personally believe that the "plateau" is over played. People don't know what a true plateau is.
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    been on a plateau/unintentional maintenance/same weight...(pick a name) for a year

    I have eaten 1200/1400/1600 etc etc calorie cycled for 8-12 weeks at a time

    upped and downed and changed exercise and nothing works

    I haven't changed any meds or anything else...in fairness crap diet last couple of weeks

    so yep for some people it happens...when you are nearer your goal weight let us know if your numbers still work

    not insulted more amused at the fountain of all knowledge :drinker:

    martyxx

    sorry to hear that. might be a good idea to crunch the numbers in a spreadsheet. might reveal some trend. try it, if you have not already. good luck!
  • NeverGivesUp
    NeverGivesUp Posts: 960 Member
    wow you really do think you know it all, don't you?! Wait till you are closer to goal and then we shall see if your plateau theory stands. You really haven't been at this long enough to think you have discovered the secret to weight loss. Do you really think you will last counting and crunching numbers for the rest of your life?? I sure as hell will not be 80 years old and tracking every bit of food going into my mouth. I have gone months without tracking and have gotten really good at figuring out what I need to be doing without the numbers in the way. We are all different and our journeys are different. Let people be. People know if they are doing right by their bodies. They really do. You don't need to point it out to them. At this point in your journey, you should just be sharing your own experiences and learning as much as you can, not inventing science out of your own research. That is not science as others have pointed out to you.
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    wow you really do think you know it all, don't you?! Wait till you are closer to goal and then we shall see if your plateau theory stands. You really haven't been at this long enough to think you have discovered the secret to weight loss. Do you really think you will last counting and crunching numbers for the rest of your life?? I sure as hell will not be 80 years old and tracking every bit of food going into my mouth. I have gone months without tracking and have gotten really good at figuring out what I need to be doing without the numbers in the way. We are all different.

    you know, this is a good forum to be honest. Also, for sure should be nice and respectful also.

    Actually I know I DO NOT know it all. In fact, I don't think I know much at all. I am really looking forward to learning more as more objective obesity studies that are sure to released. Now opinions are all over the place, even in the scientific community. I hope that there will be more agreement in the future so people can just get down to the business of getting healthy rather than wasting their time arguing here all day. :)

    One thing I do know: The vast majority of people would benefit from being able to look at their results in a spreadsheet format.

    And I don't think anyone would have to enter numbers the rest of their lives. But frankly, I think some people probably would have to if it gives them the discipline needed to keep their bodies healthy. It depends on the person.

    Anyway, didn't mean any offense. It's interesting and enjoyable to chat with others about a topic like this. :)
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    I disagree though, I was in a plateau for 6 months, yet i at pretty good for the most part

    .About your numbers matching up, they didn't, you got lucky. For example, if i asked someone who doesn't know how to square a number in math, "what does ^ mean? Here is your example. 2^2 = 4" they might say ^ means to add the same number to itself.
    There are always exceptions to the rule as I have written. I think what I propose would work for 95% of people and would be more valuable than a lot of the misinformation on this site.

    I'm sure something was going on with your body. Something has to be going on. If you are taking in a lot less calories than you are burning but not losing weight over 6 months something abnormal is going on. For my purposes though and for what I shared I don't care about abnormal. I care about the 99% that could benefit and don't have the very strange record that you mention.

    Please comment on the bottom of a post, not the top. People read a post from top to bottom. in reply to your post. That's the thing, I stalled out at 1,300 calories for a month, i said screw it and got off that. I stalled out at 3,000 for about 6 months. That's the point I am making, you never really know if you're over or under. IF you're truly eating under maintenance calories and not losing weight it's probably due to dieters edema. This is when people hold on to water. They can hold on to a lot of water, even up to 20lbs or more. Not going to repeat myself, i went in to more detail about this on my blog if you're interested.
    http://physiquelore.com/weight-loss-plateaus-edema/

    Okay, the bottom then.

    Read you blog. I gotta tell you I think there are so many opinions on weight loss out there. Sure, some people will have what happen what you pointed out. Repeating myself again... there will be exceptions.

    But what I am saying is posting to a spreadsheet could be another valuable added tool for 95% of the people here. Plateaus are real for sure. But I think just a much of the time there is a physical reason there are also :"mental" reasons. People have heard about plateaus and just assume they are on one. BUT if they look at their numbers, most of the time they will realize that they were just using that as an excuse.

    My spreadsheet brought great insight, I do get what you're saying. I don't disagree with that. There are real plateaus, and imaginary ones.(Eating at maintenance and thinking you're eating below maintenance). If you look closely at what you're saying, you make it sound like "plateaus aren't real, just track your food more carefully." If i eat above maintenance and track intensively doesn't mean i'll drop body fat. That's the point that you're leaving out. The spread sheet is assuming everyone is being accurate with their calorie counting. You're saying "use this spread sheet and you'll lose weight." A lot of people miscalculate and estimate incorrectly. In general though, i will agree with you, a spreadsheet can bring good insight to what you're doing.

    Maybe you took me wrong. Sometimes things read differently than you intend. I don't think I am that black and white as you state. I am saying I think a good chunk (half? who knows...) are imagined. Bringing this point to light is important and for many people may not have even thought of it as an option.

    Humans have survived up to this point I think because we are overly optimistic. However, i don't think it serves us well when we think about how much we are really eating and exercising.
    http://upstart.bizjournals.com/views/columns/natural-selection/2007/11/28/Human-Brain-Hardwired-for-Optimism.html?page=all
  • lisst87
    lisst87 Posts: 26 Member
    Really interesting post, thanks!
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    here's another study about how humans are overly optimistic. very interesting. I'm glad were like that though. It's hard to cope without it. :) Hell, almost every major people group in the world believes they are going to live again after they die. Very optimistic! I hope it is true!

    http://io9.com/5901251/are-humans-too-optimistic-for-their-own-good
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    For me, it's certainly true.

    Times I've stopped losing are when calories in have equalled calories out

    I still suggest this is true for everyone, but do accept that in some cases the body may have altered 'calories out' - it's burning less than we think.

    I've been uisng a motoactv to monitor daily activity and even doing a reasonable bit often burn only JUST more than MFP says for the level 2 (one above sedentary); if you add in miscalculating food (packaging, weights, missing the oil used in cooking, say) and what could be a 500kc deficit can easily be eating at TDEE.
    If I was just using MFP TDEE and exercise figures, I'd be over-eating by a fair bit pretty regularly.
  • Bump
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    For me, it's certainly true.

    Times I've stopped losing are when calories in have equalled calories out

    I still suggest this is true for everyone, but do accept that in some cases the body may have altered 'calories out' - it's burning less than we think.

    I've been uisng a motoactv to monitor daily activity and even doing a reasonable bit often burn only JUST more than MFP says for the level 2 (one above sedentary); if you add in miscalculating food (packaging, weights, missing the oil used in cooking, say) and what could be a 500kc deficit can easily be eating at TDEE.
    If I was just using MFP TDEE and exercise figures, I'd be over-eating by a fair bit pretty regularly.

    That's another good point. The exercise and calorie values used for MFP are often wrong. I track my calories by measuring portions most of the time. But even then I'm sure there is some error.

    Thank you for sharing your results. Seems like spreadsheets are good for some, but not for others.. interesting. Hardly a scientific sampling though since people looking at this probably have some significant interest and/or emotion toward this topic either way.
  • peterdt
    peterdt Posts: 820 Member
    Here's the spreadsheet I made for everyone. Hope it works. Never used google before for this.

    Very basic, but hopefully will serve the purpose of entering data to see where you are at.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiJHvhndZJWWdHdUa0RQby1BcldsU0g4WncwWmNtVnc#gid=0
    please contact me should you have any problems with it.

    To calculate BMR go here:
    http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html
    NOTE: I motified my number down from 2964 to 2500. I suspect you will need to do something similar to get the numbers to match up, and hopefully allow you to do some realistic goal setting over the long term.
  • nsblue
    nsblue Posts: 331 Member
    i always thought ...a stall is a month or more of no weight loss and a plateau is a few days/weeks.... doesn't really matter which...one has to keep on trucking in your weight loss journey....(BEING HONEST IN ALL YOU DO) eventually the body starts to lose the pounds again.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    My One persons study. It is not scientific... but I think is insightful. By not scientific I mean 100's of people would need to do something similar to what I have done and then see what the results are. So, my results are extremely subjective. Honestly, its just a provocative blog headline to get some attention.
    What study are you referring to?

    So based on results of what worked for you, you conclude that no one can possibly experience a plateau that lasts longer than a couple weeks?

    OK then ...
  • I can't comment on whether plateaus are a real phenomenon (though I do think most "plateaus" are caused by one's failure to follow one's plan), I do agree with you on one thing:

    spreadsheets are key.

    For more than a year I logged my weekly losses on a spreadsheet. When I had weeks where I didn't lose, I'd go look at my average and see that I was right on track. My monthly averages almost always lined up perfectly to my calculated deficit. I'd go 2 weeks with nothing then - bam - 4 pounds gone.

    "If I stuck to my plan the weight loss plan results would show up sooner or later."

    I can't agree more. I lost 2 pounds a week on average as long as I wanted to. It wasn't until I was 10-20 pounds from goal that I purposely slowed things down. I never had a plateau.

    It's easy to get frustrated if you're only looking at what you lose this week. When you average out your losses over a month or more, it's really enlightening.

    What layout did you use for your spreadsheet? I tried to make one and it got really messy really quickly (me and Excell aren't friends) so any tips you have would be appreciated!
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

    You need to read up about the hormones that your body produces due to calorie deficits for extended period.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    I have not. Have you? I guess that at least half the time the "plateau" is a result of losing motivation to lose weight.
    Don't people often plateau for over a month at a time?

    I plateaued for more than a year because of hormonal issues due to birth control. There is more to losing weight sometimes than getting the correct calorie deficit. In perfect conditions, and maybe for the vast majority of people, that is all it takes. But you need to consider that there are imperfect conditions and many exceptions to the rule.
  • DBiddle69
    DBiddle69 Posts: 682 Member
    bump
  • mmckee10
    mmckee10 Posts: 405 Member
    bump for when i'm more awake
  • Post spreadsheet to an MFP post in this forum. Folks can copy it into EXCEL using Paste Special, then use Text to Columns ...
  • What does "bump" mean?
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Bump is usually done to bring a thread to the top on forums (for instance a for sale thread), but here is used just so you have a post registered in the thread so it shows up under 'my topics'.
  • HeidiHoMom
    HeidiHoMom Posts: 1,393 Member
    I also have months and months of data tracked and I had a 3 month long plateau where I tracked diligenty, every single bite.

    The scale did not move.

    Thankfully my measurements were changing though.

    I think many people think they are on a plateau but are only using the scale as a measure of success which is rarely the best method.
  • Spreadsheet design is a unique talent. There is no one "way" to design a spreadsheet. LOL.
  • And the point is...?:flowerforyou:
  • kittyraj
    kittyraj Posts: 129 Member
    The body does it's thing. We are all different. To make sense out of water weight and fluctuations will lead you to inconclusive and incorrect assumptions. Just let it go, let your body do it's thing. Have patience. If you gain weight over time you are eating too much, and if you don't lose weight over a long period of time you are likely eating too much. If you lose weight too fast or have problems with too much of a calorie deficit you are not eating enough. You can always notch things up or down by 100. If you have a lot of fat on your body you will not starve. There is no such thing as starving fat people. Look around the world, have you ever seen a starving fat person? If you are not sure just ask your doctor but if you need to lose weight, and you are not, either give it a bit of time and/or eat less. The reason we all got fat in the first place is eating too much. All you have to do is eat less to lose weight. It is that simple. But you have to be patient. The body does it's thing. Having to lose weight is not fun. It's never fun, even when you maintain you fluctuate, life happens, holidays happen, social events happen, stress happens, at some point you have to reign it in again and get back to business. All the skills you learn when you are losing weight comes into play when you maintain. It's not ever easy. It is fun when it happens, it motivates you too keep going, it snowballs when you are motivated, but there is nothing easy about it.

    Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.

    Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You cannot make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.

    The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.


    She's right!!! That's what happened to me!! I stopped losing for about 3 weeks (not an ounce!) and then suddenly on week 4, I lost 2lbs in a day! I was getting frustrated and so during that final week I weighted myself every morning to make sure my scales were accurate.

    I've since continued to lose steadily at 1/2 per week at 1-2lbs per month. It's very slow but I don't feel like I'm on a 'diet'. I figured I'd lost about 2 stones in a year!