is low fat dieting that good for you...

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

I'm just curious, why do you believe you do not have to watch your calorie intake during ketogenic dieting?

show previous quotes

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

I'm just curious, why do you believe you do not have to watch your calorie intake during ketogenic dieting?

That's easy, because fat doesn't make you fat and protein doesn't get stored. lol

You know darn well someone is going to come in here and agree with that. LOL

It's amazing that the satiating effect of low carb dieting for some people gets confused with energy balance.....I would imagine it's never going to make sense to some.

Agreed.

show previous quotes

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

I'm just curious, why do you believe you do not have to watch your calorie intake during ketogenic dieting?

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So, a low fat diet and a low carb diet actually mean the same in the way that you can eat as much as you want just as long as you don't mix carbs and fats together. Why? because of ketosis. Once you follow that rule, you can eat as much as your stomach can hold.

For vegetarians/vegans, eating 500 calories worth of veggies will fill your stomach, and there is very little fat in those veggies.
For Atkins/Paleo dieters, eating 500+ calories worth of fats and meats will fill your stomach and there is little consequence because they are under ketosis.

Never the two shall meet. Eating a "balance," to me, means you are exercising, raising your metabolism and watching calories because you are not under ketosis, thus 1 gram of fat really means 9 calories.

I choose not to follow the Atkins Paleo diet because most meats and dairy are full of things that can hurt you. Whereas with starchy foods, I do have to wash them carefully.

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

show previous quotes

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

I'm just curious, why do you believe you do not have to watch your calorie intake during ketogenic dieting?

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So, a low fat diet and a low carb diet actually mean the same in the way that you can eat as much as you want just as long as you don't mix carbs and fats together. Why? because of ketosis. Once you follow that rule, you can eat as much as your stomach can hold.

For vegetarians/vegans, eating 500 calories worth of veggies will fill your stomach, and there is very little fat in those veggies.
For Atkins/Paleo dieters, eating 500+ calories worth of fats and meats will fill your stomach and there is little consequence because they are under ketosis.

Never the two shall meet. Eating a "balance," to me, means you are exercising, raising your metabolism and watching calories because you are not under ketosis, thus 1 gram of fat really means 9 calories.

I choose not to follow the Atkins Paleo diet because most meats and dairy are full of things that can hurt you. Whereas with starchy foods, I do have to wash them carefully.

LOLWUT?

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Low fat dieting is excellent.

You will find people here, meaning on this forum, that are on a low carb diet, so they will say fat is good for you.

For the sake of argument, I am going to call them Atkin's type dieter or Paleo (high fat, high protein, low carb), the new Atkin's diet is lower fat, higher protein and still low carb.

low fat dieters (myself and other vegetarians and vegans) will argue that essential fat found in plants are good for you but animal fat is not (saturated, trans, and there is a new man-made fat now which I don't remember the name right now).

No one will argue that there are essential fats and they are needed. Essential because our bodies do not produce them and we need to eat them.

The argument is where are these essential fats found. I have learned that they are found only in plants, some will argue otherwise, but we can agree to disagree.

For me, low-fat dieting is really the way to go, unless you do not mind being in a state of ketosis all the time, then you can eat high fats, high protein.

Explain to me why saturated fat is bad.

I would like to know also as there are a lot of saturated fatty acids that are actually beneficial such as stearic acid which occurs in animal fats and milk. Stearic acid has been shown to lower LDL and to be HDL neutral.

Not to mention the effect of a low fat diet on particle sizes of LDL lipoproteins.......basically a low fat diet reduces the size of the particles, hence the reduction in total cholesterol, but smaller particles are also more atherogenic. Also a low fat diet (higher carb diet) has a pretty negative effect on HDL, it lowers it, and despite lower cholesterol numbers if peoples HDL isn't at a decent number no lower effect of LDL is going to help, which has been confirmed by more recent studies that really only confirms what we already knew 30 years ago which is, it's not Total Cholesterol that should be worrisome, but the relationship of HDL/LDL and of course CRP, Lp{a}, trigs in the blood yada, yada.

Why is saturated fat bad? I never said saturated fat is bad. I said low fat dieting is excellent. Listen up.

You insinuated that it was bad. Chill....

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

This is why I say a low-fat, not fat-free diet, is excellent.

Yes, I am aware of the law of thermodynamics. I am able to have 60g + of fats and still get a lot of food to fill me up and stay within my calorie target. Fats are actually more satiating than carbs. BMI is bs for me as I have a high LBM - I am however in the athletic BF% range.

Well there you go. You admit to being above average in exercising so you can consume more calories. Thus the "balance" of macros.

Thanks.

Where on earth did you see that? I do no cardio and have a desk job and outside the gym am a lazy bish. You are seeing things, Higher fat is also good for eyesight btw.

I do not understand why you are finding the concept of moderate carbs/fats/protein so hard to grasp. You seem to be grasping at straws to make me 'unusual'. I am a 45 year old woman with a desk job who basically does no cardio and no activities outside strength training. I have a moderate calorie deficit. I am not a special snowflake.

41
not much cardio
strength train 3 to 4 times a week ...one hour
usually over 60g of fat in a day

You admit to doing strength training, different work out. Different macro requirements.

show previous quotes

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach.

Why? Why do you believe that this is true? Is it because you cannot maintain an energy surplus due to stomach limitations or is it because you believe that carbohydrate is required to gain fat? Or is it neither?


EDIT: You do realize that protein is insulinogenic and that fat itake supresses hormone sensitive lipase even when insulin is low, right?

show previous quotes

Low fat dieting is excellent.

You will find people here, meaning on this forum, that are on a low carb diet, so they will say fat is good for you.

For the sake of argument, I am going to call them Atkin's type dieter or Paleo (high fat, high protein, low carb), the new Atkin's diet is lower fat, higher protein and still low carb.

low fat dieters (myself and other vegetarians and vegans) will argue that essential fat found in plants are good for you but animal fat is not (saturated, trans, and there is a new man-made fat now which I don't remember the name right now).

No one will argue that there are essential fats and they are needed. Essential because our bodies do not produce them and we need to eat them.

The argument is where are these essential fats found. I have learned that they are found only in plants, some will argue otherwise, but we can agree to disagree.

For me, low-fat dieting is really the way to go, unless you do not mind being in a state of ketosis all the time, then you can eat high fats, high protein.

Explain to me why saturated fat is bad.

I would like to know also as there are a lot of saturated fatty acids that are actually beneficial such as stearic acid which occurs in animal fats and milk. Stearic acid has been shown to lower LDL and to be HDL neutral.

Not to mention the effect of a low fat diet on particle sizes of LDL lipoproteins.......basically a low fat diet reduces the size of the particles, hence the reduction in total cholesterol, but smaller particles are also more atherogenic. Also a low fat diet (higher carb diet) has a pretty negative effect on HDL, it lowers it, and despite lower cholesterol numbers if peoples HDL isn't at a decent number no lower effect of LDL is going to help, which has been confirmed by more recent studies that really only confirms what we already knew 30 years ago which is, it's not Total Cholesterol that should be worrisome, but the relationship of HDL/LDL and of course CRP, Lp{a}, trigs in the blood yada, yada.

Why is saturated fat bad? I never said saturated fat is bad. I said low fat dieting is excellent. Listen up.

You insinuated that it was bad. Chill....

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

So, if 1 gram of fat is 9 calories and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories and 1 gram of carbs is 4 calories. I really don't want to eat more fat calories because it is more than double a gram of protein or a gram of carbs. Again, if you are in a state of ketosis, this model doesn't apply. However, if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calorie intake.

Look, the world cancer association came out with recommendations that if you want to avoid certain types of cancer, it is recommended that you be in the lower range of your BMI. So, I don't care how you do it, eat fat, protein whatever, but if you are not in ketosis, you have to watch your calories, and fat, is just too costly per gram.

This is why I say a low-fat, not fat-free diet, is excellent.

Yes, I am aware of the law of thermodynamics. I am able to have 60g + of fats and still get a lot of food to fill me up and stay within my calorie target. Fats are actually more satiating than carbs. BMI is bs for me as I have a high LBM - I am however in the athletic BF% range.

Well there you go. You admit to being above average in exercising so you can consume more calories. Thus the "balance" of macros.

Thanks.

Where on earth did you see that? I do no cardio and have a desk job and outside the gym am a lazy bish. You are seeing things, Higher fat is also good for eyesight btw.

I do not understand why you are finding the concept of moderate carbs/fats/protein so hard to grasp. You seem to be grasping at straws to make me 'unusual'. I am a 45 year old woman with a desk job who basically does no cardio and no activities outside strength training. I have a moderate calorie deficit. I am not a special snowflake.

41
not much cardio
strength train 3 to 4 times a week ...one hour
usually over 60g of fat in a day

You admit to doing strength training, different work out. Different macro requirements.

How so? And what does that have to do with anything related to weight loss or fat consumption?

ETA: Out of interest, what do you eat in an average day? How much weight are you losing on average?

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

show previous quotes

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

It's not that fat is bad, it's what kind of fat and how much.

Having a diet of only fried foods, mayo and butter is not good for you but having a balanced diet that incorporates any of those foods and other foods like avocados, nuts, fish in moderation is all good. Having a breakfast of fried eggs, bacon, and hashbrowns, a lunch of a fast food burger and fries and then a dinner of pizza and cheesebread multiple times a week is too much making it "bad" fat.

But having a poached egg sandwich with a little cheese for breakfast, a burger without the cheese, no mayo, mustard, tomato, avocado and lettuce for lunch, and then a chicken breast with some spinach with a tablespoon of grated parmesan cheese are all much better choices but still with fat that our bodies need.

See the difference?

What is 'bad' about butter?

show previous quotes

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach.

Why? Why do you believe that this is true? Is it because you cannot maintain an energy surplus due to stomach limitations or is it because you believe that carbohydrate is required to gain fat? Or is it neither?


EDIT: You do realize that protein is insulinogenic and that fat itake supresses hormone sensitive lipase even when insulin is low, right?

Looking at your picture, it looks like you muscle build. I would then surmise that you follow a different ratio of fats to proteins to carbs. That's fine. Your diet won't follow mine and we can agree to disagree as my weight goals are different from yours.

You stated

show previous quotes

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

show previous quotes

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

This thread is awesome.

show previous quotes

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

show previous quotes

You stated

We all must understand that after your body receives enough calories (this depends on various factors such as your metabolism for example) any excessive amounts of calories leads to being overweight, or weight gain. I am hinting at the law of thermodynamics.

I think we can all agree on this.

And then you go on to say

Dr. Atkins promotes his ketogenic diet as an all you can eat fat and protein but limit your carb deal. If you understand ketosis, your body uses the fat, which is caloricially much higher than carbs or proteins.

So i could eat 7000-8000 calories of fat and protein a day and not get fat.

I should test this theory.

If you abstain from eating any types of carbs for 3 or 4 days, you should, as long as you can fill your stomach and still eat no carbs or low carbs.

Does this not cause a slight discrepancy in your logic? How do these two coincide with each other?

Please look up ketosis and ask.

I know what ketosis is, I ask you, as you have made these rather preposterous claims, to explain.

What is ketosis please.

I thought you knew? Now how about you stop deflecting and answer the question