Fat Shaming: Drawing the line.
spongekitty
Posts: 24 Member
So a lot of us wouldn't be here if we weren't trying to stay or get in shape. We've come to the conclusion that being how we are (read: fat) is not how we want to be, and this quickly develops into a feeling of fat shaming. We just don't believe that being thick is the way to a happy healthy life.
That said, everyone has their own goals in mind. There are big-boned people out there who are going to be curvy no matter how much they try, their bodies can become healthy but not model-thin. There are a lot of people who don't even believe model-thin is the way to be, and a full-bodied (though not obese) shape is the way to go.
I saw a group discussing this picture on facebook today:
And the most shocking thing I read in the comments was "I think what the dove ad is trying to say is, it's okay to hurt yourself."
Obviously the comparison here was trying to shift the image of a healthy woman, though saying that being extra-small (and photoshopped) is ugly universally might not be the best way to do it... but at what point do we say that being curvy is too curvy? How much belly is too much belly? Are we better off not weighing in on what someone ought to look like at all? And going both ways, how to encourage our friends to look one way without shaming the other way?
That said, everyone has their own goals in mind. There are big-boned people out there who are going to be curvy no matter how much they try, their bodies can become healthy but not model-thin. There are a lot of people who don't even believe model-thin is the way to be, and a full-bodied (though not obese) shape is the way to go.
I saw a group discussing this picture on facebook today:
And the most shocking thing I read in the comments was "I think what the dove ad is trying to say is, it's okay to hurt yourself."
Obviously the comparison here was trying to shift the image of a healthy woman, though saying that being extra-small (and photoshopped) is ugly universally might not be the best way to do it... but at what point do we say that being curvy is too curvy? How much belly is too much belly? Are we better off not weighing in on what someone ought to look like at all? And going both ways, how to encourage our friends to look one way without shaming the other way?
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actually i scrap my comment and agree with the lady below
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How about we stop body shaming period. I've seen people bash on every body type. Fat, skinny, muscular, doesn't matter. I may not like looking at a specific body type, but I'm an adult and can keep my comments to myself.
ETA: We shouldn't be concerned with how our friends look either. We each do our own thing and one day maybe we can be a good example to our friends when it comes to general health, not body type.0 -
There are body fat charts that define ranges that relate to peak levels of fitness.
That's more definitive than silly pictures of people.
When I think of this, specific numbers comes to mind: 12% body fat, 185 lbs, 32 waist...
That to me represents optimal health,
Some guys my height and build would consider that fat while others too little.
To each his or her own.
Strive toward your own ideal, be happy with that while not making excuses for failure.
Success Is A Choice :drinker:0 -
I think everyone is getting far too caught up in the skinny versus curvy debate.
The point is to be at a healthy weight for your height. A weight that you can maintain. A weight that you are happy with.
What other women may or may not look like is irrelevant.0 -
sorry but how is someone expressing their opinions and preferences the same as fat shaming?
i think many people on here need to understand that just because someone says they find one type shape attractive doesnt mean they are denigrating any other shapes.
not everyone is going to like you, your personality, how you look, how you talk etc. that's called life and living on a planet with billions of other people.
i also think many of the people who feel they are being shamed need to take a step back and look into how much of their own issues they are projecting on to the issue and stop trying to make other people responsible for their own sensitivities. after all, if someone pushes your buttons, you have to remember that they are YOUR buttons, created by you...
PS by you i mean the general you, not the OP0 -
It has to start at the individual level. I'm here for my own health and fitness goals, as defined by me alone. It's not about comparing myself to others, judging anyone, or trying to adhere to someone else's standard of perfection.0
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We've gotten oh-so-sensitive about this. If you call someone fat, you're being rude, cruel, and stuck up; if you call someone skinny, you're just jealous because you're fat. That's crap. Some people are fat, some people are skinny, and very few people are 100% satisfied with their bodies. I think the point where it matters is when you start having medical problems because of your body, one way or the other. At that point, you're too curvy or too skinny. And while a lot of people might want to warn a friend to not gain more weight to avoid getting diabetes, or to eat more so she doesn't lose her period, I've found most people won't change until they have their own personal wake-up call. It comes from within. If someone were to ask me what I think of their body and their lifestyle I'll comment; otherwise it's none of my business, and I'll carry on doing what I'm doing and so will they.0
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I agree with usmcmp. People tell me I look "anorexic", which is a serious illness, when I'm simply thin. Every one of my numbers are in healthy ranges. Stop shaming indeed.0
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There's a difference between thin and anorexic
There's a difference between fat and slobby, and round/curvy.
I'd say the deciding factor of what is "too big" is how much "jiggle" and "overlap" of things are there.
Round is ok, as long as you're healthy.
But if you have a gut that could compare with a beer-chugging man-bear, then that's going to look pretty bad.
Of course, different strokes for different folks. I prefer petite Asian women for the most part /shrug0 -
I don't think I get it. Am I supposed to think that the models in the Dove ad are fat? Because I sure don't think that.
Personally, I think they look perfectly healthy to me. The Victoria's Secret models look a little anorexic. You can see the bones in the one models thigh.
BTW, the Dove models look happier, at least they are smiling.0 -
I agree that everyone is built differently, therefore will look differently. I think that as a society, women are harsher than men when it comes to body image and what is acceptable. In a perfect world, everyone would accept each other as they are, but we don't live in a perfect world and it is so hard to get rid of the body bashing.0
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sorry but how is someone expressing their opinions and preferences the same as fat shaming?
i think many people on here need to understand that just because someone says they find one type shape attractive doesnt mean they are denigrating any other shapes.
The difference between expressing an opinion and shaming are how you put it. There was a woman who was competing in a bodybuilding competition. Someone else shared her pictures and people commented how gross or disgusting she looked. That's shaming. Saying they preferred how she looked post bulk over her competition look is not shaming. Do they really need to say anything at all if they don't like it? No.0 -
The whole fat=unhealthy campaign is used as an excuse for fat shaming. Being a little overweight can actually have protective qualities for women. Being very obese (like me) is definitely not healthy I'm not trying to say it's ok to be very obese.. but slightly overweight is necessarily NOT a health issue for women.0
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sorry but how is someone expressing their opinions and preferences the same as fat shaming?
i think many people on here need to understand that just because someone says they find one type shape attractive doesnt mean they are denigrating any other shapes.
The difference between expressing an opinion and shaming are how you put it. There was a woman who was competing in a bodybuilding competition. Someone else shared her pictures and people commented how gross or disgusting she looked. That's shaming. Saying they preferred how she looked post bulk over her competition look is not shaming. Do they really need to say anything at all if they don't like it? No.
i dont see it that way. feeling shame is a personal thing and once again in that example, other people are projecting their own feelings onto the matter. they are ASSUMING that if they were in the lady's position being depicted she would feel shamed by the comments. i seriously doubt that considering she probably doesnt give a crap about what people on MFP are saying about her. if she were then odds are she wouldnt be doing what she's doing.
no one can make you feel shame unless you already feel it..
i guess i dont understand why people are letting anyone - especially strangers on the web - determine what their self-esteem is yet not looking to the true root of the problem : self-esteem is an internal process more so than an external one0 -
sorry but how is someone expressing their opinions and preferences the same as fat shaming?
i think many people on here need to understand that just because someone says they find one type shape attractive doesnt mean they are denigrating any other shapes.
not everyone is going to like you, your personality, how you look, how you talk etc. that's called life and living on a planet with billions of other people.
i also think many of the people who feel they are being shamed need to take a step back and look into how much of their own issues they are projecting on to the issue and stop trying to make other people responsible for their own sensitivities. after all, if someone pushes your buttons, you have to remember that they are YOUR buttons, created by you...
PS by you i mean the general you, not the OP
I couldn't have said it better myself.0 -
I would kill tolook like any one of the women in the Dove campaign. Not a single one of them has "too much belly". I am built thick and no matter how much weight I lose, I will never be thin and I'm learning to be okay with that.0
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sorry but how is someone expressing their opinions and preferences the same as fat shaming?
i think many people on here need to understand that just because someone says they find one type shape attractive doesnt mean they are denigrating any other shapes.
The difference between expressing an opinion and shaming are how you put it. There was a woman who was competing in a bodybuilding competition. Someone else shared her pictures and people commented how gross or disgusting she looked. That's shaming. Saying they preferred how she looked post bulk over her competition look is not shaming. Do they really need to say anything at all if they don't like it? No.
i dont see it that way. feeling shame is a personal thing and once again in that example, other people are projecting their own feelings onto the matter. they are ASSUMING that if they were in the lady's position being depicted she would feel shamed by the comments. i seriously doubt that considering she probably doesnt give a crap about what people on MFP are saying about her. if she were then odds are she wouldnt be doing what she's doing.
no one can make you feel shame unless you already feel it..
So if someone was sitting there telling you that you are gross and the way you look makes them want to vomit you wouldn't have a problem with that? Shaming is independent of the person's reactions. She may or may not have cared. It simply doesn't need to be said. I have thick skin, but my mom still taught me that if I don't have anything nice to say that I shouldn't say anything at all. Common decency, not being an *kitten*, treating others how you want to be treated, etc.0 -
i guess i dont understand why people are letting anyone - especially strangers on the web - determine what their self-esteem is yet not looking to the true root of the problem : self-esteem is an internal process more so than an external one
There are two different forms of esteem: the need for respect from others and the need for self-respect (inner self-esteem). Respect from others entails recognition, acceptance, status, and appreciation, and was believed to be more fragile and easily lost than inner self-esteem. Sure people shouldn't give a *kitten* what others think of them (especially on the internet), but why bother being a jerk if you don't have to be?0 -
Personally, I love the Dove campaigns. They have a little bit of variety, unlike the other ads that only feature very thin girls.. they promote feeling good about yourself. I don't think people should shame skinny people any more than fat people, but at the same time there are reasons people do the extreme things they do to be 'model thin' and a lot of that has to do with media and how it influences people. Can't there be room for both ads? /shrug0
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i dont see it that way. feeling shame is a personal thing and once again in that example, other people are projecting their own feelings onto the matter. they are ASSUMING that if they were in the lady's position being depicted she would feel shamed by the comments. i seriously doubt that considering she probably doesnt give a crap about what people on MFP are saying about her. if she were then odds are she wouldnt be doing what she's doing.
no one can make you feel shame unless you already feel it..
i guess i dont understand why people are letting anyone - especially strangers on the web - determine what their self-esteem is yet not looking to the true root of the problem : self-esteem is an internal process more so than an external one
False.
Assuming you don't have any influence on those you interact with is careless. Self esteem is an internal process - but it is not created in a vacuum. Expecting others to do so is asking others to go against human nature.0 -
I don't think I get it. Am I supposed to think that the models in the Dove ad are fat? Because I sure don't think that.
Personally, I think they look perfectly healthy to me. The Victoria's Secret models look a little anorexic. You can see the bones in the one models thigh.
BTW, the Dove models look happier, at least they are smiling.
They look anorexic? They look healthy to me. Soooo.....I look similar to them, I should feel shame? I don't. I wonder why the VS models are the highest paid models in the world? Some one must like the way they look.0 -
Because people are judgmental a-holes. It's just the way it is.Sure people shouldn't give a *kitten* what others think of them (especially on the internet), but why bother being a jerk if you don't have to be?
Part of it obviously comes from insecurities on behalf of those "shaming".
Part of it is probably because a lot of people don't really care about others.
I don't really care in general; I've had several girls tell me that I'm "too skinny" for them or something silly, things that may have seemed hurtful to some, and were definitely along the lines of "shaming," and how a "real man" should be built.
But whatever, it was always girls whom I would have considered outside of my scope of interest, so to speak. One finally admitted it was because she would feel bad about herself if I saw her naked. I think being uncomfortable in one's own skin is what causes this kind of stuff.
It doesn't bother me either way.0 -
I'm not represented in either of the pics!!!
:grumble: :grumble: :grumble: :sad: :sad: :sad:
Guess I can't buy Dove or Vikkis Secret now.
p.s. The Dove Ad (just like the Vikkis Secret Ad) has arranged their models in an aesthetically pleasing way. Almost all of them are the same heights except a couple they threw in the mix (3 to be exact). It is a very calculated way to get you to buy their product.
And honestly every time I have seen the two ads compared I saw more of the "omg those Victorias Secret models look like they need to eat something!" and "Good job Dove for showing what 'real' women look like!". Not so much fat shaming.
I think both Ads look great. But thats all they are...ADs...buy their products if you want and move on.0 -
Fat shaming? More like body shaming period. Shaming someone because of their body period is just wrong. No matter if thin or "thick". I think the only time we should concern ourselves with someone else's body is if they are overweight and it's affecting their health. My bigger butt might gross you out, but I may be perfectly happy with it or even love. The gap between someone else's thighs might gross you out, but they might love it. As long as they don't have a body that is unhealthy we shouldn't be concerned...at you can't tell if someone is healthy just by looking at their body. My body is my body, and I could care less about other peoples bodies. If you're happy with yourself then there is no reason to be judging if someones arm is a little chubbier than you think it should be.0
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Fat shaming? More like body shaming period. Shaming someone because of their body period is just wrong. No matter if thin or "thick". I think the only time we should concern ourselves with someone else's body is if they are overweight and it's affecting their health. My bigger butt might gross you out, but I may be perfectly happy with it or even love. The gap between someone else's thighs might gross you out, but they might love it. As long as they don't have a body that is unhealthy we shouldn't be concerned...at you can't tell if someone is healthy just by looking at their body. My body is my body, and I could care less about other peoples bodies. If you're happy with yourself then there is no reason to be judging if someones arm is a little chubbier than you think it should be.
**I would also like to point out that VS models are highly paid models, and modeling is their job. Therefore going to the gym is their job. Eating healthy is their job. Meaning they are able to put more time and energy into looking like they should...besides being blessed with tiny bodies and curves.0 -
We've come to the conclusion that being how we are (read: fat) is not how we want to be, and this quickly develops into a feeling of fat shaming.
I don't think fat shaming means what you think it means.0 -
Yes, and I am fat, getting fit!!We've gotten oh-so-sensitive about this. If you call someone fat, you're being rude, cruel, and stuck up; if you call someone skinny, you're just jealous because you're fat. That's crap. Some people are fat, some people are skinny, and very few people are 100% satisfied with their bodies. I think the point where it matters is when you start having medical problems because of your body, one way or the other. At that point, you're too curvy or too skinny. And while a lot of people might want to warn a friend to not gain more weight to avoid getting diabetes, or to eat more so she doesn't lose her period, I've found most people won't change until they have their own personal wake-up call. It comes from within. If someone were to ask me what I think of their body and their lifestyle I'll comment; otherwise it's none of my business, and I'll carry on doing what I'm doing and so will they.0 -
People need to stop defining others by their body shapes and sizes. I would go so far as to say this may have ruined my entire life. Ever since I was a teenager I've been horribly self-conscious about my body.
And to this day when I meet someone or hear about someone who is fat who has done amazing things, like working as a reporter in a war zone or doing service work in another country or marrying someone who is wildly in love with them, I am astonished.
That is how much I have learned to let my appearance dictate who I am. And I definitely do blame society.0 -
Victoria's secret's brand IS hot, skinny, big-tittied women in sexy lingerie. Dove is trying to sell more product by appealing to women by making them say "look how progressive Dove is to put 'regular' women as models! I support THAT! Dove soap for me!"
Both brands are selling stuff and have very smart advertising people in charge. I have no idea what the OP is trying to say with this post.0 -
I really dislike Victoria's Secret. The only have one type of model - tall, very very thin with very long waists and little to no muscle tone. Some of them have surprisingly large busts considering breasts are mostly made of fat.
Their top models have said how they are always watching what they eat, working out for hours a day and living off liquid diets for weeks before they have shows/photos - and even then the photographs are photoshopped to death - which really irks me more than anything, as these women put so much hard work into their figures. But I guess the pay makes up for it.
The underwear is also far too expensive for stuff that looks so cheap.0
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