Fat-Shaming May Curb Obesity?

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  • Anthonydaman
    Anthonydaman Posts: 854 Member
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    Agreed!
    Sounds like a recipe for an eating disorder.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    It is an interesting theory. I grew up in the 60's and 70's. Fat people were shamed much more than today back then. There were far fewer fat people. But I'm not sure that shaming was the reason. But the author is correct that shaming smokers did cause a dramatic drop in the number of smokers.

    And for those talking of bullying, shaming and bullying are the same thing.
    back then fast food was not delivered, you had to get up off the couch to change the channel, they had no video games, no pc's and being over weight was frowned upon.

    "and being over weight was frowned upon" That was my point. Fat people were shamed back then. And there were fewer fat people back then.
  • Ulfgard
    Ulfgard Posts: 49 Member
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    Public shaming and ostracising worked for smoking. should work for this too.
  • meerjungfrau
    meerjungfrau Posts: 1 Member
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    We already shame the overweight and obese. Society is taught to dislike overweight people. Overweight/obese individuals aren't considered "conventionally attractive" and therefore are treated with disrespect. In our society, image reflects personality, and everyone ASSUMES that overweight/obese people sit on the couch and devour ice cream all day. Or that they're racked with co-morbidities and that's not the case. These individuals are lumped into a generalized category and shamed for it.
    Just some examples for any naysayers:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23295503
    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/12/14/study-questions-advice-given-to-obese-pregnant-women
    http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/10/09/big-girls-in-entertainment-one-step-forward-one-step-back/
    how about this guy? http://jezebel.com/5949338/watch-this-****head-issue-a-non+apology-to-jennifer-livingston-sorry-if-i-hurt-your-feelings
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    Public shaming and ostracising worked for smoking. should work for this too.

    I don't agree with this..lol. When people would make remarks..made me want to smoke more...either to spite them or because they stressed me out and so I ended up puffing like a pissed off chimney.
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
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    "and being over weight was frowned upon" That was my point. Fat people were shamed back then. And there were fewer fat people back then.

    First - I've not read all of your comments. If I'm taking something horribly out of context, I'll happily recant.

    You have to be careful taking any one factor out of context. Yes, fat people were shamed. But also people were significantly more active, generally houses had only one worker, so fresh meals were more commonly put on the table. People ate out significantly less. Portion sizes were smaller. Children weren't conditioned to be sedentary over-eaters.

    So while the shaming may have played a factor, it wasn't the only factor. And it may not have been a factor at all, it may just look that way from the impact of everything else. A favorite statement of mine is "correlation does not equate to causality".

    Further more, the starting point was different. We weren't starting from a position where the majority of the country was already overweight. So you weren't suddenly dumping a whole lot of negativity onto the majority of the country. It's reasonable to assume that given different initial conditions, the same actions don't necessary lead to the same outcomes.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    but a 99% tax on all those over 12% BF... two things will occur, the will lose weight themselves, or they will be so heavily taxed they will not be able to eat those loose weight that way...no excuse to be fat its a personal choice a poor one that that. being fat is like being a drug addict you choose the lift style if you dont like the way your treated change yourself not others.

    Being under 12% fat is not ideal for many women.

    lol notsureifserious.jpeg inform me oh wise one what BF should everyone be?

    There's no reason everyone should have the same BF%. For women a BF% in the 20's is healthy so it would be ridiculous to tax them for being in the heatlhy range.

    its ridiculous to think that. go to a doctor and ask what is healthier 20% or 12%. that thought process alone is the reason why the US population is at a higher rate then anywhere else. why strive to be what you should when you can argue being fat is ok. please stop trying to argue being fat is ok

    Can you point me to statistics that show an increased risk of disease for women with BF% in the 20's?

    Having fat on your body is generally not the same as "being fat" Usually when someone says someone is fat it's because they have too much fat. A BF% in the healthy range is not "too much".
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
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    The actual article (here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.114/full) never says fat shaming should be used. The MSN/Today article does what all news media stories do: take a true story and then embellish/exaggerate it to make it all dramatic and sensationalize it, because the news industry's job is not to tell people what is true, but to make money. And since the public (read: you) gobbles up the most sensationalized version of any story, that is what any news organization has to do in order to stay in business.

    In other words, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, an article by its title, or by what a news outlet said about it.
  • lewcompton
    lewcompton Posts: 881 Member
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    The charts for obesity list Phillip Heath, Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Lee Haney and the Governator as obese... All Mr. Olympia, top bodybuilder in the world and considered obese by weight charts at the height of their career and at show weight. Also many professional athletes fall into the same category. The labeling of obesity with a number from a scale is ludricrous... While there are too many people that carry far too much body fat, weight and excessive fat are two different issues. The fact that this researcher wants to poke and infuriate those of us that carry more weight shows that he needs some education to accompany his credentials
  • lee91356
    lee91356 Posts: 330 Member
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    Here's my to cents...is you've ever been obese and by that I mean not overweight or but obese you know that you live in a world of fat shaming, especially if your a woman. From the fact that there are fat jokes EVERYWHERE and they are openly made on tv and in movies and usually towards people who are not even slightly overweight, not even 'fat'; to the images we have to look at all day in the media, ads and in stores; the clothes that you buy - again if your obese you know the **** that they call clothes, it pathetic, its like clothing companies think 'hey your fat, put this on and be happy we made something that can cover your fat, you dont deserve to look nice' ; to the way people look at you when you walk down the street and the comments that children make to their mommys about 'that really fat person'.

    Life can be one big walk of shame if you let bullies like this doctor get to you. OR you can tell them all to F off and stop being sizists, thats right I said it, people who HATE fat people. We all know they exist but we are not allowed to talk about it because its permissible. Again its publicly permissible to make fun of fat people so why cant someone publicly hate them, oh wait they can and they can even be called bioethicists.
  • anneerick
    anneerick Posts: 147 Member
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    I hate to be one of "those" people, but the paper has numerous spelling mistakes which really irritates me coming from a professional....and often makes me wonder about its validity.

    Now, back to the topic, I don't believe anyone has the right to shame others. The only person I want to telling me that I am overweight and it is effecting my health is my doctor. People do not have the right to tell me how to live my life or make me feel ashamed for how I do. Everyone will have that skeleton in there closet that someone else could shame.

    What's the point of it? Can we not just focus on the person whom we look at in the mirror?
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
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    The charts for obesity list Phillip Heath, Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, Lee Haney and the Governator as obese... All Mr. Olympia, top bodybuilder in the world and considered obese by weight charts at the height of their career and at show weight. Also many professional athletes fall into the same category. The labeling of obesity with a number from a scale is ludricrous... While there are too many people that carry far too much body fat, weight and excessive fat are two different issues. The fact that this researcher wants to poke and infuriate those of us that carry more weight shows that he needs some education to accompany his credentials

    If you are referring to BMI charts, that's because they are designed to test populations, not individuals.

    For an individual, body fat is a much better indicator of obesity. >25% body fat for men = obese, no matter what your weight or BMI. My BMI is just a hair above the normal range, but my BF% is in the obese range. So BMI can actually lie in both directions when applied to an individual.
  • concordancia
    concordancia Posts: 5,320 Member
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    The actual article (here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.114/full) never says fat shaming should be used. The MSN/Today article does what all news media stories do: take a true story and then embellish/exaggerate it to make it all dramatic and sensationalize it, because the news industry's job is not to tell people what is true, but to make money. And since the public (read: you) gobbles up the most sensationalized version of any story, that is what any news organization has to do in order to stay in business.

    In other words, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, an article by its title, or by what a news outlet said about it.

    Nope, I got that, still think that part of his plan is a lousy idea *in our culture*. We got our low fat, high sugar diets from trying to transplant an idea from other parts of the world without seeing them in context.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    Did you know that people who are overweight are more likely to live longer than those underweight?

    Cite, please. I doubt very much that you have any idea what you are taking about.

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623133523.htm

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/questions/ask-the-expert-does-being-overweight-really-decrease-mortality-no/
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    People I love and care about are considered obese and never in a million years would I call them fat. Especially since they are very active and eat very healthy. So there is also an assumption that the person is a lazy unehalthy slob, which is not the case either.

    How can one "eat very heatlhy" and be obese? Certianly you could eat too much foods that are generally considered "healthy" and become obese from doing so, but that would not be "healthy eating". A heatlhy diet is one that would be expected to improve or maintain health. Obesity would not be expected to do either.

    Saying someone eats too much and/or moves too little is not the same as calling them a lazy unhealthy slob.

    I don't know. They have always been big and their kids were big from even an early age. They eat well because they cook homemade dinners for a family of 7 everyday and there are 4 kids in the home which keeps everyone busy. The father works fulltime and does a lot of outside work (gardening, wood working). The mother had been on weight watchers for YEARS and has lost a lot of weight. I just know they have been eating healthy and exercising and are active for years and year (in their 50s now) and I just picture someone "shaming" them, when really... what else would they be doing differently?

    And aren't you being a bit contradictory? If we don't consider obese people to be lazy and unhealthy then why would shaming be involved?

    Obese people have a much greater risk of being or becoming unhealthy. That has nothing to do with being lazy or a slob.

    You gain weight by consuming more calories than you burn. That is not the same as being lazy. It's the same as eating too much for your lifestyle. Being overweight raises your risk for disease, so IMO it seems illogical to ever say that eating enough to become overweight is a healthy diet.

    None of that has anything to do with being a slob. A healthy person of an ideal weight could be a slob.

    I'm not calling anyone a slob. I just don't understand why you are okay with shaming but do not think they are a slob. So what would you be shaming about? Because you "think" they are unhealthy. Did you know that people who are overweight are more likely to live longer than those underweight? Let's shame underweight people then since they are "healthy". Don't BS me. People LOVE the skinny underweight models yet they are MORE unhealthy and undernourished in a lot of circumstances. So if you were so concerned about "health" you'd shame that too.

    You also have to take in to account those who are emotional/stress/bored eaters. I am one and even if I eat "healthy"...I have gone on a binge when I've felt too down..and not on junk food either. Salad, grapes, etc...and I still overate on this (calorie wise). So you wonder How can one "eat very heatlhy" and be obese? - quite easily. I knew a vegan that was bigger than me and she was also a emotional eater.

    Repost from above, which clearly you didn't read: "Certainly you could eat too much foods that are generally considered "healthy" and become obese from doing so, but that would not be "healthy eating". A heatlhy diet is one that would be expected to improve or maintain health. Obesity would not be expected to do either."
  • stumblinthrulife
    stumblinthrulife Posts: 2,558 Member
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    Did you know that people who are overweight are more likely to live longer than those underweight?

    Cite, please. I doubt very much that you have any idea what you are taking about.

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623133523.htm

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/questions/ask-the-expert-does-being-overweight-really-decrease-mortality-no/

    "Stated politely, the paper is a pile of rubbish." - best feedback from an academic on a paper I've ever read.

    Context for those that didn't read - the quote is saying that the initial research, stating that obesity has a lower rate of morbidity, is a pile of rubbish. In addition, there are some very compelling arguments as to why it is a pile of rubbish.
  • Kellyeee2013
    Kellyeee2013 Posts: 221
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    Did you know that people who are overweight are more likely to live longer than those underweight?

    Cite, please. I doubt very much that you have any idea what you are taking about.

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623133523.htm

    A clinical psychologist taught me it in a psyc course a few years ago. But I am sure if you cared that much you could do your own research on it.
  • MirinSerratus
    MirinSerratus Posts: 30 Member
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    but a 99% tax on all those over 12% BF... two things will occur, the will lose weight themselves, or they will be so heavily taxed they will not be able to eat those loose weight that way...no excuse to be fat its a personal choice a poor one that that. being fat is like being a drug addict you choose the lift style if you dont like the way your treated change yourself not others.

    Being under 12% fat is not ideal for many women.

    lol notsureifserious.jpeg inform me oh wise one what BF should everyone be?

    There's no reason everyone should have the same BF%. For women a BF% in the 20's is healthy so it would be ridiculous to tax them for being in the heatlhy range.

    its ridiculous to think that. go to a doctor and ask what is healthier 20% or 12%. that thought process alone is the reason why the US population is at a higher rate then anywhere else. why strive to be what you should when you can argue being fat is ok. please stop trying to argue being fat is ok

    Can you point me to statistics that show an increased risk of disease for women with BF% in the 20's?

    Having fat on your body is generally not the same as "being fat" Usually when someone says someone is fat it's because they have too much fat. A BF% in the healthy range is not "too much".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLO7tCdBVrA
  • EricCowperthwaite
    EricCowperthwaite Posts: 450
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    http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says?lite

    Found this interesting little article.

    A bioethicist thinks that since being nice to obese people isn't helping, maybe a bit of shaming might do the trick. (That's a very concise summary, though)

    Thoughts?
    Since I happen to believe that most obesity is caused by over eating starchy carbs, grains and processed foods, I really disagree with this idea. It's not as if, in our society, fat folks aren't already ashamed, unhappy and depressed. It's not like they (we) want to be fat, or something. The issue is that we are eating foods that make us fat and not eating foods that make us slender. And no amount of fat shaming will help until we change our understanding of diet and nutrition.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
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    Can you point me to statistics that show an increased risk of disease for women with BF% in the 20's?

    Having fat on your body is generally not the same as "being fat" Usually when someone says someone is fat it's because they have too much fat. A BF% in the healthy range is not "too much".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLO7tCdBVrA

    I can't get to youtube right now, but will try to remember to check that out tonight. In the meantime:

    http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/estimating-body-fat-percentage-topic-overview
    Experts differ in their opinions about what is a healthy percentage of body fat. In general, 10% to 25% body fat is considered healthy in an adult man, and 18% to 32% body fat is considered healthy in an adult woman. Above or below this level is usually considered unhealthy and could put you at risk for health problems.

    Percentage of body fat will vary between different population groups. Your age, sex, and activity level will also affect your percentage of body fat. For example, endurance runners have less body fat than swimmers. People living near the North or South Pole generally have more body fat than people living in more moderate temperature zones.

    Remember that percentage of body fat, by itself, doesn't tell whether a person is healthy or unhealthy. The location of the fat is also important. Body fat around your stomach can put you at risk for more health problems than if your fat is around your hips, buttocks, and thighs instead.

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