Yes! Sugar IS the enemy.
Replies
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I think you started this thread sincerely. Most times when someone starts a Lustig thread, they have some kind of orthorexic axe to grind. I also, applaud you're efforts to do better than your family history and be up to date on research.
The problem with someone like Lustig and why the draw such disrespect is they stop being a researcher and scientist and start being an extremeist advocate with an agenda based on fear mongering. That is why he is viewed by many with such disdain despite his PHD, which is no guaratee of inteligence and integrity BTW.
If you really want to learn more, one of the best sites you can utilize is James Kreiger's site, Weightology.com. He has credentials and is objective. Also, you can find lot's of good info on here in the group Eat, Train, Progress, especially in the "important posts to read" thread. I've put links to both below.
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=3
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/10067-eat-train-progress-
@ MMapags: Thanks for the info. I will definitely look into it when I find time. And yes, as I said, I am careful not to “appeal to the authority” yet credentials should be considered.
@ Acg67: The links you sent me were great. Alan had a lot of good information. I was digging into them quite a bit last night.
I had to LOL when I realized what a polarizing figure Dr. Lustig is. I had no idea until yesterday. Of course, on cue, he wrote a blog on the Huffington Post yesterday. It had a ridiculous amount of comments too. I'm sure it was linked here about 20 times!
So, the main problem I see with Dr. Lustig is his sensationalism. I have to admit. He did scare the **** out of me at first. But when I watched his video again, I don't think that was his intention. I think he is just very passionate about the subject and wants to make a positive change. Perhaps he has some alternative evil agenda (hence the zealots on the anti-Lustig side) but I doubt it. Maybe he just wants to sell a book. I'm fine with that. Everyone has a book these days. First amendment all the way.
However, after looking into a lot of the critiques of Dr. Lustig, it seems to me that a lot of his arguments are misrepresented. Admittedly, I think it partly due to his sensationalism. For example, people say he is only specifically concerned about high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). Yet, he says in his lecture that he agrees sucrose and HFCS are seen as identical by the human body. (He does go into how HFCS is cheaper, so more is used, but that’s a long discussion.) What he is concerned about, and what interests me, is the fructose part of both HFSC and sucrose and how it is metabolized. That's the part that I want to know more about. Also, I want to know more about why fruit gets a pass. He didn't really explain why adding fiber suddenly makes fructose perfectly fine.
"He's just a quack" is not a good rebuttal btw. If we are talking about logical fallacies, Ad Hominem arguments don't impress me.
So, I'm sure people's eyes are strained from rolling them so much. Btw, no one is forcing you to beat the horse with me, just like no one is forcing you to drink that Coke
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However, after looking into a lot of the critiques of Dr. Lustig, it seems to me that a lot of his arguments are misrepresented. Admittedly, I think it partly due to his sensationalism. For example, people say he is only specifically concerned about high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). Yet, he says in his lecture that he agrees sucrose and HFCS are seen as identical by the human body. (He does go into how HFCS is cheaper, so more is used, but that’s a long discussion.) What he is concerned about, and what interests me, is the fructose part of both HFSC and sucrose and how it is metabolized. That's the part that I want to know more about. Also, I want to know more about why fruit gets a pass. He didn't really explain why adding fiber suddenly makes fructose perfectly fine.
I think these 2 peices are the key. The sensationalism and the fact that he makes statement like you show above but never really addressed the questions of dose and context. Is it healthy to down 400 grams per day of sugar? NOT. What about 40? .........
And is sugar typically consumed in a vacumn? I'm not a big advocate of soda but let's say, your have a salad with chicken on top for lunch and a coke with it. In that context there is fiber and protein. Food for thought.0 -
I'm tracking everything I eat (thanks, scanner on my phone!), and I can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods. My question: How do I control it? Or will it get easier over time: BTW: just joined MFP this month.0
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I'm tracking everything I eat (thanks, scanner on my phone!), and I can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods. My question: How do I control it? Or will it get easier over time: BTW: just joined MFP this month.
What do you mean by this "can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods"? What "healthy" foods are you finding a lot of sugar in?0 -
I think there is a real problem with sugar.
The problem is that it makes a lot of food highly palatable and particularly when combined with highly calorific foods make over consumption rather easy.
The other issues? Meh.0 -
I think there is a real problem with sugar.
The problem is that it makes a lot of food highly palatable and particularly when combined with highly calorific foods make over consumption rather easy.
The other issues? Meh.
^^ Truth0 -
i gave up all added sugar and fake sugars last year, I feel so much better! It was hard to get used to plain coffee but i did it and now just a touch of milk makes it taste sweet to me.0
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I'm tracking everything I eat (thanks, scanner on my phone!), and I can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods. My question: How do I control it? Or will it get easier over time: BTW: just joined MFP this month.
What do you mean by this "can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods"? What "healthy" foods are you finding a lot of sugar in?
peanut butter, for starters0 -
I think there is a real problem with sugar.
The problem is that it makes a lot of food highly palatable and particularly when combined with highly calorific foods make over consumption rather easy.
The other issues? Meh.
once you break the sugar addiction it is no longer palatable, IME. Sugary foods are sickening to me now (unless i have PMS and still i can only do a little)0 -
Its sugar indirectly causing the fat
Some people cant control themselves when it comes to sugar, so it tends to be a trigger food to make them eat more
Exercise is not present, or even if exercise is present they are still in excess for their total energy
Glycogen then builds up as excess energy in their bodies
thus making them fat
sugar = devil = fat people = excessive amount of sugar is eval threads = annoyed Fitbeto = not going on the message boards as often
:flowerforyou:0 -
I'm tracking everything I eat (thanks, scanner on my phone!), and I can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods. My question: How do I control it? Or will it get easier over time: BTW: just joined MFP this month.
What do you mean by this "can't believe how much sugar is in "healthy" foods"? What "healthy" foods are you finding a lot of sugar in?
peanut butter, for starters
I'm looking at the jar of Maranatha organic peanut butter. It says 3 grams of sugar in a 2 tablespoon serving. Not a lot. If someone is buying a peanut butter with added sugar, they need to read the label more closely.0 -
For me I cant have one cookie or one cup of ice cream or one piece of cake ect ect so for me it is the enemy. And Ive lost quite a few battles but I am winning the war :-)). Edited to mean Added sugar I can have one apple and one bannana I have one a day of each.0
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Realistically practically all whole foods contain a form of sugar. Carrots, beets, fruits, potatoes, etc. all have a good amount and even vegetables have trace amounts.
You'll never totally eliminate it and personally I'd never want to. A good life and health includes enjoyment and satisfaction, and if one goes around being paranoid about every little thing they eat because there might be some sugar in it, then they AREN'T the people who are usually going to be invited to celebrations that involve cake, ice cream, etc. I had friends like that (they chose no longer to be friends).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I think there is a real problem with sugar.
The problem is that it makes a lot of food highly palatable and particularly when combined with highly calorific foods make over consumption rather easy.
The other issues? Meh.
once you break the sugar addiction it is no longer palatable, IME. Sugary foods are sickening to me now (unless i have PMS and still i can only do a little)
I think that's certainly true, especially with food items which are "super sweet" (which is all too common nowadays.)
I believe there's an evolutionary function at play as well. We evolved to seek out items which were high in sugar as it correlated with energy density (necessary for survival) as opposed to say bitter foods which do not (hence we usually eat less of them.)
Sweetness is very recognisable to our taste buds as a result.0 -
There is a potential enemy lurking behind just about every food. When applied to the skin, broccoli can cause an allergic rash in hypersensitive people.0
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Realistically practically all whole foods contain a form of sugar. Carrots, beets, fruits, potatoes, etc. all have a good amount and even vegetables have trace amounts.
You'll never totally eliminate it and personally I'd never want to. A good life and health includes enjoyment and satisfaction, and if one goes around being paranoid about every little thing they eat because there might be some sugar in it, then they AREN'T the people who are usually going to be invited to celebrations that involve cake, ice cream, etc. I had friends like that (they chose no longer to be friends).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yeah, I think when you get to the point where the fear and avoidance of foods starts affecting relationships, you want to step back and take a look. If, in the large view, you have set your calorie and macro targets well, a little cake and ice cream on occaision isn't going to make a big difference in your health. Unless "on occaision" for you means everyday, several time a day. :laugh:0 -
Let me this about that:
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I cut out refined sugar and it has worked....I was eating a lot of sugar but not eating a **** load of cake and cookies....sugar on my cereal, in coffee, etc....and sugar in the snacks I ate like innocent granola bars, cereal, yogourt, that kind of thing....cutting it out of my diet has helped me lose weight....now I eat items that contain sugar now and then....but have cut a great deal of it out...I don't have those afternoon slumps where I just want to sleep...I have more energy....so it worked for me but not everyone will feel the same....obviously lol0
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I'm not going to say that sugar isn't addictive or cannot make you fat, but I don't think it's evil.
I watched about 10 minutes of the video up to the point where he is saying that we're not getting fat because there is more food available (and it's cheaper), he actually goes so far to say that is has never been the case that people have been without adequate food... well... sorry, that is so beyond incorrect and is very insulting. There have always been people in the world who have had access to all the food they want (the richest) and they were often fat, but that's not the case with the poorest in society, or the world, where people are still dying of starvation and malnutrition. Ok, I might be reading too much into this little bit he says, but he is still implying that all of society has always had access to so much food!
(The exact quote being: So and so is eating X amount of calories a day etc... "No question, we're all eating more. The question is: Why? How come? Because it's all there? You know what, it was there before!")
I'm still pretty sure we're, as a whole, eating more because we are able to and food isn't as precious as it once was. Some people are addicted to food and have a problem with leptin, but does that really make sugar evil?
To say I have a sweet tooth is an understatement. I've always eaten a lot of sugar and I've never been overweight, eaten too much, and when I was young and my sugar intake was much much higher I was actually severely underweight. I could even eat so much fruit that I would give myself an upset stomach! I know it's anecdota but I struggle to believe that sugar is the only problem, but I guess it's easy to blame something like sugar for weight gain instead of a myriad of reasons.0 -
I'm not going to say that sugar isn't addictive or cannot make you fat, but I don't think it's evil.
I watched about 10 minutes of the video up to the point where he is saying that we're not getting fat because there is more food available (and it's cheaper), he actually goes so far to say that is has never been the case that people have been without adequate food... well... sorry, that is so beyond incorrect and is very insulting. There have always been people in the world who have had access to all the food they want (the richest) and they were often fat, but that's not the case with the poorest in society, or the world, where people are still dying of starvation and malnutrition. Ok, I might be reading too much into this little bit he says, but he is still implying that all of society has always had access to so much food!
(The exact quote being: So and so is eating X amount of calories a day etc... "No question, we're all eating more. The question is: Why? How come? Because it's all there? You know what, it was there before!")
I'm still pretty sure we're, as a whole, eating more because we are able to and food isn't as precious as it once was. Some people are addicted to food and have a problem with leptin, but does that really make sugar evil?
To say I have a sweet tooth is an understatement. I've always eaten a lot of sugar and I've never been overweight, eaten too much, and when I was young and my sugar intake was much much higher I was actually severely underweight. I could even eat so much fruit that I would give myself an upset stomach! I know it's anecdota but I struggle to believe that sugar is the only problem, but I guess it's easy to blame something like sugar for weight gain instead of a myriad of reasons.
Indeed he did say that. It is interesting you brought this up and have valid points, but maybe he was referring to America in general in the last 30-40 years, not poor societies around the world....although the world now has an obesity epedemic. I do agree there is more than sugar, fructose, and HFCS that points to the cause of obesity. But with todays "sugar in everything" saying, (which it is) its not winning any points for being safe:)0 -
Bumpy!0
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Hey! Don't hate the newbie....everyone is not as fortunate as others to be well knowlegable in all areas of nutrition...KUDOS for him in trying to pass on Great info!!!!
Well said. And thank you for saying it. People come and go on mfp and some topics bear repeating for people at all levels of health seeking.0 -
Sugar is the enemy. Today I ate some jellybeans and some red meat and now I am literally dead.0
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Realistically practically all whole foods contain a form of sugar. Carrots, beets, fruits, potatoes, etc. all have a good amount and even vegetables have trace amounts.
You'll never totally eliminate it and personally I'd never want to. A good life and health includes enjoyment and satisfaction, and if one goes around being paranoid about every little thing they eat because there might be some sugar in it, then they AREN'T the people who are usually going to be invited to celebrations that involve cake, ice cream, etc. I had friends like that (they chose no longer to be friends).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yeah, I think when you get to the point where the fear and avoidance of foods starts affecting relationships, you want to step back and take a look. If, in the large view, you have set your calorie and macro targets well, a little cake and ice cream on occaision isn't going to make a big difference in your health. Unless "on occaision" for you means everyday, several time a day. :laugh:
did you guys watch the video?0 -
Realistically practically all whole foods contain a form of sugar. Carrots, beets, fruits, potatoes, etc. all have a good amount and even vegetables have trace amounts.
You'll never totally eliminate it and personally I'd never want to. A good life and health includes enjoyment and satisfaction, and if one goes around being paranoid about every little thing they eat because there might be some sugar in it, then they AREN'T the people who are usually going to be invited to celebrations that involve cake, ice cream, etc. I had friends like that (they chose no longer to be friends).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yeah, I think when you get to the point where the fear and avoidance of foods starts affecting relationships, you want to step back and take a look. If, in the large view, you have set your calorie and macro targets well, a little cake and ice cream on occaision isn't going to make a big difference in your health. Unless "on occaision" for you means everyday, several time a day. :laugh:
did you guys watch the video?
I have seen the video as well as much of other alarmism and fear mongering that Lustig has tried to spread. Have you read the rubuttals?
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/0 -
One problem I see is we have become accustomed (in America at least) to need shock, humor, witty comments and sensationalism to get and keep our attention. It's almost silly at times. I always picture Al Gore on the scissor lift. I am guilty of this as well, hence the title to my thread. So, minus 1 point for me I guess. Damn, I did it again, minus 2.
Anyway, if you get passed all the bs, Lustig makes some good points. He also makes some questionable points. But I think the most interesting point is how sugar (in all forms) has been added to almost everything. Why is this? Well, because most sugar comes from corn. Corn is one crop that is heavily subsided by the US government. Therefore, it is very cheap relative to everything else. Food companies need to make a profit and one of the ways they entice people to buy their food is to make it taste good. There's nothing wrong with this in my eyes. Everyone wants food that tastes good. So, what are some ways to make food taste good? You can add all kinds of spices and herbs. Yet, most spices are very expensive. You can also add some sweetness. So, maybe add some fresh blueberries to yogurt. Again, this can get expensive and fruit has a short shelf life. So, let’s add pure sugar (mostly in the form of corn syrup), because sugar is very cheap. Let’s also add salt instead of a bunch of spices, because salt is relatively cheap and it serves a dual purpose by preserving the food.
My point is economics plays a big roll. I was watching an interview this morning about how school lunch programs are underfunded. So, in order to make the food edible, they add sugar because they need to stay under budget. And that’s my beef. Sure, you can just say shut up and take responsibility and I completely agree. But, as Ned Flanders’s wife would say "would somebody please think of the children!" It is kind of sickening of how sugary foods are directly marketed to children. I mean if you watch Saturday morning cartoons they are all over the place. I know, you can just tell the parents to be parents, but I can't really comment on that since I am not a parent. Although, I think it's only the parents business to influence a child on how and what to eat.
Is sugar evil? No, of course not. Just like alcohol isn't evil or tobacco, etc. I think there is a limit though and that is where personal responsibility comes in, but also, I think we as a society should at least know all the facts about why it can be harmful and at what level. I mean we know how harmful tobacco and alcohol can be at certain levels, but we're not going to outlaw them.0 -
Moderation in all things! I can't imagine never having sugar again.
This.0 -
I watched that video several months ago. I'm curious to know at what dose fructose would/could actually cause cirrhosis. Obviously it would need to be chronic too. But he never does discuss dosage. With alcohol the amount needed is apparently low enough that some people with extreme habits can reach that level.0
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Sugar has also been linked to Cancer.....and even Alzheimers (which tbh worries me more than getting fat from it).
I'm really trying hard to cut down on foods containing Sugar,... but it ain't easy.
Studies have shown that 100% of people who get cancer and Alzheimers have consumed dihydrogen monoxide.
THAT'S THE REAL DANGER PEOPLE. EDUCATE YOURSELVES!
LOL. this.0 -
I have not seen the video or read all the posts but here is my take as a diabetic. Sugar can be deadly to me IF I CONSUME TOO MUCH and do not take a shot. My doctor told me not to go below a certain amount of carbs, (sugar is included in the carbs), because it is not healthy. sugar is not the sole problem otherwise my doctors would have given me alternatives. it is about getting up and moving your *kitten* and eating things in moderation.
For example, the only time you see regular cokes at my house is when we are having a family gathering. (i do drink diet Mt. Dew from time to time) but we do that to keep the kids from drinking the empty calories. People need to be accountable and take responsibility instead of blaming everyone else for their problems.0
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