Can I log this as water?
Replies
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Technically our body does absorb water from things like tea, coffee, even sodas, food, etc... So technically it is water lol. However, it is not recommended only because our body will also consume the sodium and sugar that comes along with most of those drinks.
and chemicals and other things...I do understand the logic in the OP message...you cannot count your diet soda as water, you cannot count your orange juice as water...I do not even count my tea as water because I add milk and sugar...water (in my opinion) should be just water with nothing mixed in just as our OP suggests!!!.0 -
I was always taught that only polar substances can be dissolved in water. Not "anything." So there is that. But you are the water chemist, right?
I'm going to guess that if I drank a bunch of cyanide dissolved in water I wouldn't be calling anything, anything.
The point is, what is the difference between creating a water based solution outside the body and creating a water based solution inside the body? The answer is that there isn't one. The body is perfectly able to pull water from the solution. That is what it does, in fact. All the time. Even if I hadn't eaten in days and I drank water, by the time it reaches my stomach it will be mixing with bile and acids and still be in solution.
[Also, I don't drink crystal light. Just using it as an example.]
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You are correct, water does only dissolve water soluble things. In my haste, I mistyped that. However, as I pointed out, I don't like to call anything water that isn't water. I wouldn't call beer, Pepsi, or milk water. There is also water in carrots, lettuce and Vodka. We don't log those as water either.0 -
SMH! When will this debate end? For 30 years I never drank any straight H2O unless a dribble happened to go down my throat when I brushed my teeth. Somehow, miraculously, I have survived and am quite healthy actually.
You need to stay hydrated. Your body doesn't give a rat's *kitten* whether you drink purified spring water, lap it out of apuddle, make tea, drink milk, eat fruit or veggies to get it.
If your urine is lightly yellow then you get enough liquids. The whole 8 glasses thing is a complete myth and obsessing about what is water and what isn't is ridiculous.
THANK YOU!!!0 -
More seriously though.
It's one thing to scientifically define water, it's entirely something else when it comes to logging it for health and fitness or weight loss.
When I log water 90 percent of the time it's water, filtered, from the tap, which is connected via pipes to a tank which is filled via more pipes with water from the roof when the rain falls. I neither know, nor care, what else might be in my water.
Given these facts, I think it's reasonable that I also count as water the water I have that is also mixed with mio, or some other water soluable no calorie flavouring.
I know it's not precisely water, but I really don't care.0 -
I was always taught that only polar substances can be dissolved in water. Not "anything." So there is that. But you are the water chemist, right?
I'm going to guess that if I drank a bunch of cyanide dissolved in water I wouldn't be calling anything, anything.
The point is, what is the difference between creating a water based solution outside the body and creating a water based solution inside the body? The answer is that there isn't one. The body is perfectly able to pull water from the solution. That is what it does, in fact. All the time. Even if I hadn't eaten in days and I drank water, by the time it reaches my stomach it will be mixing with bile and acids and still be in solution.
[Also, I don't drink crystal light. Just using it as an example.]
You are correct, water does only dissolve water soluble things. In my haste, I mistyped that. However, as I pointed out, I don't like to call anything water that isn't water. I wouldn't call beer, Pepsi, or milk water. There is also water in carrots, lettuce and Vodka. We don't log those as water either.
You still aren't actually answering the question posed by quite a few of us. Water is always in solution whether it is inside the body or outside. Why does it matter if I mix it before I consume it. If I eat a packet of crystal light or a pixie stick or oatmeal, then drink water, the water still counts even though it mixes in the body. If I mix the water with a packet of crystal light or a pixie stick outside the body (in a bottle or cup) why doesn't it count then? What is the difference? [Hint: None, there is no difference.]0 -
Let's simplify this : If it contains more than H2O - It doesn't go! (H2O+ anything is no longer water!
I tell people in my weight loss challenges "If it is not CLEAR it doesn't go Here" (pointing to the water section on the log sheet.) Which you hear "I can get flavored water that is clear" and I say "If it is flavored and fruity it wont help your BOOTY".
YEAH!!!0 -
I don't see why you can't log your coffee or tea as water. I'd go as far as to say that a soda counts toward your water intake.
This is actually something that we've discussed in a few of my freshman/sophomore level nutrition courses. It is estimated that the average human requires about 64 oz. of water per day. Water is in all foods, to a degree. However, most of the processed convenience foods are much lower in water content (almost zero). If the experts tell the public to do something extreme (i.e. consuming 64 oz. of pure H2O every day), the goal is to get people to stay better hydrated and choose healthier options than soda.
Of course soda isn't good for you, and if you're trying to lose weight, you really shouldn't drink any. However, it contains almost as much water as the entire volume of beverage. When your body separates the entire mixture, the water will go on to do the same function as the water you drink as pure water, while the sugars and phosphorus will go on to do their functions. Even the water you get from your food is still water. If you eat lots of fruits and vegetables with high water content, you may not even need the full 64 ounces of fluid consumed as liquid. Obviously, that's much harder to measure, and it would just be a better idea to ensure you're hydrated by having something healthy to drink on hand. The 8 8-oz glasses of water per day thing is something we obsess over too much. Your body is unique. You may need more than that amount, or you may need less. I think it's much better to just get in tune with your body, and simply stay hydrated.
EDIT: I know I didn't account for osmosis in my post. But I don't feel the need to. Unless all you drink is soda, as long as you're getting the proper amount of fluid in your diet for your own body, I'm sure you'll be fine.0 -
When you add something to water, it stops being water and starts being a water based solution. Water is the solvent, and whatever you put in it is the solute.
So lets see, if I drink water it is water. But if I add Crystal light of tea or coffee to said water it is no longer water and I receive no benefit from said water based solution by the natural digestion process? Maybe i should just eat my Crystal Light package, tea leaves and/or coffee grounds after I drink my water. Because there is no way that it will be comes a water based solution in my stomach. Right?0 -
More seriously though.
It's one thing to scientifically define water, it's entirely something else when it comes to logging it for health and fitness or weight loss.
When I log water 90 percent of the time it's water, filtered, from the tap, which is connected via pipes to a tank which is filled via more pipes with water from the roof when the rain falls. I neither know, nor care, what else might be in my water.
Given these facts, I think it's reasonable that I also count as water the water I have that is also mixed with mio, or some other water soluable no calorie flavouring.
I know it's not precisely water, but I really don't care.
And this is the best way to look at it. I do as well. The only way to get pure H20 is to drink distilled water (no, not filtered, distilled). And who is really doing that? If you are....well......good for you.
If I drink 6 glasses of water, im in the bathroom all day. So along with a lot of the other folks on here, I must be hydrated?0 -
I really liked reading the posts - loved the one about seasoning on the chicken breast.
The reason some things shouldn't be counted as water is because of how the body reacts when you drink the liquid - not what the liquid is to begin with.
Water with anything flavourful added to t is counted as water but you need to count the calories too to be correct with your diary.
Coffee or any herbal tea with caffeine in it cannot be counted as water because the caffeine dehydrates you - same goes for alcohol.
When you are wondering if you can count your liquid in your water level the difference is - to hydrate or not to hydrate - that is the question.0 -
Water will dissolve anything in it path. You can dump a bunch of cyanide in water too. Would you still drink it and call it water? The entire point is one of nomenclature.
Yes... yes I would...
I would just add an adjective... such as the word "Poisoned"
i.e.- "The terrorists put cyanide in the water, make sure that no one drinks the poisoned water"0 -
Adding flavoring to water doesn't diminish it's hydrating properties nor does it diminish it's effectiveness. I don't see why you wouldn't count it.
If I mix 8 ounces of water with 8 ounces of juice, then I would count the calories for the 8 ounces of juice and the water for the 8 ounces of water.
If I mix in a tablespoon of flavoring to 16 ounces of water then I'm going to count the 16 ounces of water.
I don't actually log water so I really don't care but this doesn't make any sense.
Ditto
My doctor told me years ago to drink (naturally decaffeinated) green tea throughout the day instead of water (as long as nothing is added to it, like sweetener). So I drink plain green tea all day and count it towards my water intakes. I still drink water first thing in the morning and during work outs, but I drink a lot of green tea. It's as hydrating as water.
"More than a decade's worth of research about green tea's health benefits -- particularly its potential to fight cancer and heart disease -- has been more than intriguing, as have limited studies about green tea's role in lowering cholesterol, burning fat, preventing diabetes and stroke, and staving off dementia."0 -
Coastal cities and ocean-islands with a lack of fresh water have long-used desalinization plants to convert salty sea water into fresh water. In consideration of the goofy flawed logic of the "pure water only" people on this thread, I must ask:
How are we going to break it to all of those people who's water comes from a desalinization plant that they are not drinking water?
Never mind....I think I get it now....Maybe it isn't water if they are members of MFP.0 -
Water will dissolve anything in it path. You can dump a bunch of cyanide in water too. Would you still drink it and call it water? The entire point is one of nomenclature.
Yes... yes I would...
I would just add an adjective... such as the word "Poisoned"
i.e.- "The terrorists put cyanide in the water, make sure that no one drinks the poisoned water"
The terrorists would market it as "new and improved". Want to drink this "new and improved" water with added "nutrients"?
Cmon, you know you want to try some.0 -
If I don't feel hydrated after drinking it I wouldn't log.. but the only things I drink: coffee first thing in the morning, milk with cereal, tea on occasion to help kill cravings, and water. I drink water like a fish
I also don't ever log it.. I know I'm getting enough.. I'm not one of those people that has to mask water to make it 'taste good'. I've got a huge 57 oz bottle and I drink out of that all day. 0 -
Even if you put pure H2O into your mouth, it won't stay that way for long. Like you said, it is a universal solvent.
Your body can get the necessary water out of solution.
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.
Bah Dam Bah
For real, though, I'm with ChristinaL...unless you have a separate digestive tract for liquid than for food, or you never drink within hours of eating, this whole discussion seems pretty pointless.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: and the winner is ^^^^^0 -
Coastal cities and ocean-islands with a lack of fresh water have long-used desalinization plants to convert salty sea water into fresh water. In consideration of the goofy flawed logic of the "pure water only" people on this thread, I must ask:
How are we going to break it to all of those people who's water comes from a desalinization plant that they are not drinking water?
Never mind....I think I get it now....Maybe it isn't water if they are members of MFP.
When I was in the Navy, we drank brominated water, exclusively, while on deployment. We were primarily in the middle east area where temperatures approached 140F in most places. Brominated water kept me well hydrated and very healthy.0 -
Many people have asked if they can log something like tea or coffee as water. The answers always sparked debate. I have devised this quick and dirty guide to help. Answer these questions, and you will never have to ask this question again.
1. Would you use it to water a plant or your lawn?
2. Would you put it in your dog's bowl or hamster's bottle?
3. Would you use it to fill a fish tank?
4. Does it fall from the sky when it's raining?
5. Can find large bodies of it to surf, fish, or swim in it?
6. Would you use it in a recipe instead of water?
7. Would you rinse your car or dishes with it?
8. Would you bathe, wash your face, or shampoo your hair in it?
9. Would you use it to rinse your mouth after brushing your teeth?
10. Can you build a snowman out of it or ski on it when it is in a frozen, crystallized form?
If you answered "no" to any of these questions, the liquid is probably not water. Don't log it as water. If you have added something to the water like Crystal Light or Mio, go back and ask yourself these questions about the "water" in its current, altered state. Again, if you answer any of these questions as "no" then it's not water.
If I could use coffee for bathing, brushing my teeth, in my fish tanks, washing my car, etc. I think I'd still smell like I did when I worked at Dunkin Donuts at 16 years old! :laugh:0 -
Many of you are confusing physical change with chemical change. Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a PHYSICAL change, adding Crystal Light to water is a CHEMICAL change. They are both two very different things, if you disagree that is fine, but you are WRONG. Should have paid attention to physical science class while you had the opportunity. Have a nice day.
Kay, normally I don't get involved in this debate, but this time I just gotta put in my two cents' worth. The capital letters that follow are simply a continuation of this poster's writing style......
No, YOU are wrong. Seriously, a CHEMICAL change? A chemical change alters the initial molecule. Period. That is the definition.
Dictionary.com:
"chemical change - noun
Chemistry . a usually irreversible chemical reaction involving the rearrangement of the atoms of one or more substances and a change in their chemical properties or composition, resulting in the formation of at least one new substance: The formation of rust on iron is a chemical change. "
To help distinguish chemical and physical changes is to see whether or not the starting material in the change may be recovered using only physical processes. If you boil the water off of a salt solution, you'll obtain salt. The two molecules have not altered each other's bonds. Period.
Whether there is crystal light, phosphoric acid and caramel color, aspartame, or minerals in the water, it is still water. Yes, as the OP pointed out, the bond angles can change depending on the solutes, but this is due to hydrogen bonding - which is not true bonding, and is simply an attraction between the dipoles of the ends of various molecules. Hydrogen bonding is responsible for the surface tension of water; it is still water, not a water polymer. It remains water, two hydrogens and one oxygen. Perhaps chemistry degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Or the bandwidth used for the 20-minute physical science course tht apparently I slept through.
The human body is an amazing thing, hence the reason we all haven't perished. It has the ability to pull water out of anything. Anything that goes into your mouth gets taken apart, molecule-by-molecule and atom-by-atom for the atoms to be used rebuilt into what the body needs. Yes, I stayed awake during all of my chemistry classes, and lo and behold, my nutrition classes as well.
For the record:
20 years food chemist
10 of that is chemical research into the analysis of trace comtaminants in food
Husband has been a water chemist for 20 years as well
chemistry degree with minor in nutrition
Yes I stayed awake
Perhaps you should review your text books0 -
Various articles on the subject of "the proper amount of water to drink" and the "8x8 rule":
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp
http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2012/09/glasses-water-day-origins-nutritional-adage/
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/283/5/R993.long
http://chriskresser.com/hydration-101-how-much-water-do-you-really-need
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eight-glasses-water-per-day0 -
Many of you are confusing physical change with chemical change. Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a PHYSICAL change, adding Crystal Light to water is a CHEMICAL change. They are both two very different things, if you disagree that is fine, but you are WRONG. Should have paid attention to physical science class while you had the opportunity. Have a nice day.
Kay, normally I don't get involved in this debate, but this time I just gotta put in my two cents' worth. The capital letters that follow are simply a continuation of this poster's writing style......
No, YOU are wrong. Seriously, a CHEMICAL change? A chemical change alters the initial molecule. Period. That is the definition.
Dictionary.com:
"chemical change - noun
Chemistry . a usually irreversible chemical reaction involving the rearrangement of the atoms of one or more substances and a change in their chemical properties or composition, resulting in the formation of at least one new substance: The formation of rust on iron is a chemical change. "
To help distinguish chemical and physical changes is to see whether or not the starting material in the change may be recovered using only physical processes. If you boil the water off of a salt solution, you'll obtain salt. The two molecules have not altered each other's bonds. Period.
Whether there is crystal light, phosphoric acid and caramel color, aspartame, or minerals in the water, it is still water. Yes, as the OP pointed out, the bond angles can change depending on the solutes, but this is due to hydrogen bonding - which is not true bonding, and is simply an attraction between the dipoles of the ends of various molecules. Hydrogen bonding is responsible for the surface tension of water; it is still water, not a water polymer. It remains water, two hydrogens and one oxygen. Perhaps chemistry degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Or the bandwidth used for the 20-minute physical science course tht apparently I slept through.
The human body is an amazing thing, hence the reason we all haven't perished. It has the ability to pull water out of anything. Anything that goes into your mouth gets taken apart, molecule-by-molecule and atom-by-atom for the atoms to be used rebuilt into what the body needs. Yes, I stayed awake during all of my chemistry classes, and lo and behold, my nutrition classes as well.
For the record:
20 years food chemist
10 of that is chemical research into the analysis of trace comtaminants in food
Husband has been a water chemist for 20 years as well
chemistry degree with minor in nutrition
Yes I stayed awake
Perhaps you should review your text books
^^^ BAM! We just got scienced!0 -
Drink some water and whatever else you like. As long as you aren't dying of thirst, you should be fine.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Many of you are confusing physical change with chemical change. Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a PHYSICAL change, adding Crystal Light to water is a CHEMICAL change. They are both two very different things, if you disagree that is fine, but you are WRONG. Should have paid attention to physical science class while you had the opportunity. Have a nice day.
Kay, normally I don't get involved in this debate, but this time I just gotta put in my two cents' worth. The capital letters that follow are simply a continuation of this poster's writing style......
No, YOU are wrong. Seriously, a CHEMICAL change? A chemical change alters the initial molecule. Period. That is the definition.
Dictionary.com:
"chemical change - noun
Chemistry . a usually irreversible chemical reaction involving the rearrangement of the atoms of one or more substances and a change in their chemical properties or composition, resulting in the formation of at least one new substance: The formation of rust on iron is a chemical change. "
To help distinguish chemical and physical changes is to see whether or not the starting material in the change may be recovered using only physical processes. If you boil the water off of a salt solution, you'll obtain salt. The two molecules have not altered each other's bonds. Period.
Whether there is crystal light, phosphoric acid and caramel color, aspartame, or minerals in the water, it is still water. Yes, as the OP pointed out, the bond angles can change depending on the solutes, but this is due to hydrogen bonding - which is not true bonding, and is simply an attraction between the dipoles of the ends of various molecules. Hydrogen bonding is responsible for the surface tension of water; it is still water, not a water polymer. It remains water, two hydrogens and one oxygen. Perhaps chemistry degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Or the bandwidth used for the 20-minute physical science course tht apparently I slept through.
The human body is an amazing thing, hence the reason we all haven't perished. It has the ability to pull water out of anything. Anything that goes into your mouth gets taken apart, molecule-by-molecule and atom-by-atom for the atoms to be used rebuilt into what the body needs. Yes, I stayed awake during all of my chemistry classes, and lo and behold, my nutrition classes as well.
For the record:
20 years food chemist
10 of that is chemical research into the analysis of trace comtaminants in food
Husband has been a water chemist for 20 years as well
chemistry degree with minor in nutrition
Yes I stayed awake
Perhaps you should review your text books
^^^ BAM! We just got scienced!
I love when I get scienced. I hate that I agree with both sides of this seemingly inconsequential debate though. Basically, I'm just happy when I pee clear.0 -
Many of you are confusing physical change with chemical change. Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a PHYSICAL change, adding Crystal Light to water is a CHEMICAL change. They are both two very different things, if you disagree that is fine, but you are WRONG. Should have paid attention to physical science class while you had the opportunity. Have a nice day.
Kay, normally I don't get involved in this debate, but this time I just gotta put in my two cents' worth. The capital letters that follow are simply a continuation of this poster's writing style......
No, YOU are wrong. Seriously, a CHEMICAL change? A chemical change alters the initial molecule. Period. That is the definition.
Dictionary.com:
"chemical change - noun
Chemistry . a usually irreversible chemical reaction involving the rearrangement of the atoms of one or more substances and a change in their chemical properties or composition, resulting in the formation of at least one new substance: The formation of rust on iron is a chemical change. "
To help distinguish chemical and physical changes is to see whether or not the starting material in the change may be recovered using only physical processes. If you boil the water off of a salt solution, you'll obtain salt. The two molecules have not altered each other's bonds. Period.
Whether there is crystal light, phosphoric acid and caramel color, aspartame, or minerals in the water, it is still water. Yes, as the OP pointed out, the bond angles can change depending on the solutes, but this is due to hydrogen bonding - which is not true bonding, and is simply an attraction between the dipoles of the ends of various molecules. Hydrogen bonding is responsible for the surface tension of water; it is still water, not a water polymer. It remains water, two hydrogens and one oxygen. Perhaps chemistry degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Or the bandwidth used for the 20-minute physical science course tht apparently I slept through.
The human body is an amazing thing, hence the reason we all haven't perished. It has the ability to pull water out of anything. Anything that goes into your mouth gets taken apart, molecule-by-molecule and atom-by-atom for the atoms to be used rebuilt into what the body needs. Yes, I stayed awake during all of my chemistry classes, and lo and behold, my nutrition classes as well.
For the record:
20 years food chemist
10 of that is chemical research into the analysis of trace comtaminants in food
Husband has been a water chemist for 20 years as well
chemistry degree with minor in nutrition
Yes I stayed awake
Perhaps you should review your text books
Nicely put! This was my, albeit less articulate, point. Not to insult the OP but I've only taken 12 hrs of University Chemistry and I know all this. I'm a physics major and I'm taking extra chemistry classes for fun so this seems like something a water chemist should know, right?0 -
When you add something to water, it stops being water and starts being a water based solution. Water is the solvent, and whatever you put in it is the solute.
Not sure if srs...0 -
I think building a snowman using my pink Crystal Light water would be super pretty.
Ha hahahahahahahaha!!! take a pic of that please!0 -
Many of you are confusing physical change with chemical change. Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a PHYSICAL change, adding Crystal Light to water is a CHEMICAL change. They are both two very different things, if you disagree that is fine, but you are WRONG. Should have paid attention to physical science class while you had the opportunity. Have a nice day.
Kay, normally I don't get involved in this debate, but this time I just gotta put in my two cents' worth. The capital letters that follow are simply a continuation of this poster's writing style......
No, YOU are wrong. Seriously, a CHEMICAL change? A chemical change alters the initial molecule. Period. That is the definition.
Dictionary.com:
"chemical change - noun
Chemistry . a usually irreversible chemical reaction involving the rearrangement of the atoms of one or more substances and a change in their chemical properties or composition, resulting in the formation of at least one new substance: The formation of rust on iron is a chemical change. "
To help distinguish chemical and physical changes is to see whether or not the starting material in the change may be recovered using only physical processes. If you boil the water off of a salt solution, you'll obtain salt. The two molecules have not altered each other's bonds. Period.
Whether there is crystal light, phosphoric acid and caramel color, aspartame, or minerals in the water, it is still water. Yes, as the OP pointed out, the bond angles can change depending on the solutes, but this is due to hydrogen bonding - which is not true bonding, and is simply an attraction between the dipoles of the ends of various molecules. Hydrogen bonding is responsible for the surface tension of water; it is still water, not a water polymer. It remains water, two hydrogens and one oxygen. Perhaps chemistry degrees these days aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Or the bandwidth used for the 20-minute physical science course tht apparently I slept through.
The human body is an amazing thing, hence the reason we all haven't perished. It has the ability to pull water out of anything. Anything that goes into your mouth gets taken apart, molecule-by-molecule and atom-by-atom for the atoms to be used rebuilt into what the body needs. Yes, I stayed awake during all of my chemistry classes, and lo and behold, my nutrition classes as well.
For the record:
20 years food chemist
10 of that is chemical research into the analysis of trace comtaminants in food
Husband has been a water chemist for 20 years as well
chemistry degree with minor in nutrition
Yes I stayed awake
Perhaps you should review your text books
^^^ BAM! We just got scienced!
Your quirkiness makes me laugh everyday! haha0 -
beat me to it ....0
-
Sprinkling seasoning on a chicken breast is a physical change. Much like chopping it or shredding it. When dissolve something in water, that is a chemical change. Have you ever noticed that when you add laundry detergent to water that it feels slicker, wetter? That's because the detergent has cause the bond angle of the H2O to change from its naturally occurring 105 degrees.
Unless the water stops being H2O and the thing you added to it becomes a different chemical, it's not a chemical change.
There's no chemical reaction going on when you add salt/sugar/aspartame/whatever to water. Dissolving is not a chemical change.
edit: Ignore this post I missed the fact that the thread went beyond 1 page!0 -
both my weight loss surgeon and nutritionist expound on the necessity to log everything, and My Fitness Plan is the one they both recommend. On that note, I saw them today and YES, they said that using the crystal lite and/or wyler packets in water does count as "water", especially for those of us that have a hard time getting in all fluids that we are supposed to drink, also herbal teas are considered as part of the water calculation0
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