Still think your 1200 or less diet is a good idea?

I agree, It's not difficult to find some sort of calculator. It's also not difficult to learn some basics about macro nutrients. It's not difficult to set a reachable goal. People jumping on a VLCD are often in a diet mindset way out in left field. That's why they fail. Their whole approach is bad. I doubt people are tracking their food correctly, and are often eating 2-3x as much as they think.

Does metabolic slowdown happen when on a strict cut? Yep, not but not nearly as much as people think. 1200 calories or below should easily allow for sustained fat loss regardless of some metabolic downturn. Even then, that's easy to come out of. Failure is often not the diets fault, it's often the fault of the dieter.

^^this

I think it's funny, because really those people who say they are eating 1200 calories are probably off by 10% or more between not tracking every bite they put in their mouth or by not having to choose "generic" calorie counts. Human nature is to choose the lowest per serving calorie count. So, if you are targeting 1200 calories a day, you're probably eating more like 1400 or more. Add in a "cheat" day, and these "VLCD" folks are actually eating closer to what you all recommend. And, it's not working for them :-)

I was logging everything. Every single thing that was going into my mouth. Lying on my log would only hurt myself. And I wasn't losing on 1200 calories. I went up to 1390 and started losing. And at 5'3 249 pounds, that qualifies as morbidly obese, I'm pretty sure. Now I'm up to 1510 and losing extremely slow so idk.

Nobody thinks that those who under-report are lying. I don't think that is the mechanism. If I did, I could just as easily assume you are lying right now. That makes no sense, either.

I think it is denial.

If 1200 is too little for you, you would be more likely to accurately track calories that are inside of a larger, manageable range. If you are miserable at a low calorie range, you are more likely to lie to yourself or eat something you then forget about.

This.

I am very precise about what I log. I weigh everything on a scale. What cannot be weighed on a scale, are measured as precisely as possible via pyrex cup or measuring spoons (liquids). I use the recipe calculator religiously.

It's a pain in the backside... but it works. I've been that denial person, who thought they were eating less than they were. I first started logging without a scale. I realised how badly off I was when I started to use a scale!

I also have thyroid insufficiency... that hasn't hindered my weight loss at all. Medication works.

I think the problem is you can and do lose weight at 1200 calories or less, but keeping this up and maintaining it is different. People tend to focus on the short term weight loss rather than whether it's maintainable.

Even the people doing TDEE-20% don't keep it up forever. This is the weight loss phase. It will differ from the maintenance phase.

Your maintenance phase is a different plan. If you fail at maintenance, that doesn't mean your weight loss phase was poorly designed. It means your maintenance phase was.

Completely agree!

BMR, plus some if the patient is really sick or malnourished, is the calories our hospital dietitians feed you when we have you knocked out on a vent and turning you every two hours unless you are really obese then your propofol sedation may be all the calories you need to make you lose a little while your under our control. That is truly sedentary activity.

TDEE is the several hundred calories burned every day by brushing your teeth, taking a shower, walking, grocery shopping, yada, yada based on your activity level. It could be lower on a lazy day and higher on a crazy day. That's why people make corrections based on the various contraptions sold to monitor calorie burn for you.

A cut off your TDEE is a calorie deficit. Less calories in than out. You lose weight. It may not happen as fast a you want it to but its safe, sustainable, and maintains health and feelings of well-being. Cut to much and bad things will happen, maybe not right away but remember most bad things that happen to health, happen without out knowing until the damage is done.

True BMR and TDEE can be medically calculated for those that think they have unique bodies, but calculators can give you a free estimate that is useful for most average peeps.

Very obese people can handle greater calorie restrictions for longer periods without weird things happening because...um...they have more energy stored as fat. It's not so good for small people. Where do you think your energy to function is going to come from?

And any doctor that tells you it's ok the eat under 1000 calories a day for an extended period of time, especially with strenuous exercise, without the supervision of a dietitian, routine diagnostic tests, and at least nutritional supplements is investing in his financial future for having you as a patient with chronic health problems in the future.

BMR, plus some if the patient is really sick or malnourished, is the calories our hospital dietitians feed you when we have you knocked out on a vent and turning you every two hours unless you are really obese then your propofol sedation may be all the calories you need to make you lose a little while your under our control. That is truly sedentary activity.

TDEE is the several hundred calories burned every day by brushing your teeth, taking a shower, walking, grocery shopping, yada, yada based on your activity level. It could be lower on a lazy day and higher on a crazy day. That's why people make corrections based on the various contraptions sold to monitor calorie burn for you.

A cut off your TDEE is a calorie deficit. Less calories in than out. You lose weight. It may not happen as fast a you want it to but its safe, sustainable, and maintains health and feelings of well-being. Cut to much and bad things will happen, maybe not right away but remember most bad things that happen to health, happen without out knowing until the damage is done.

True BMR and TDEE can be medically calculated for those that think they have unique bodies, but calculators can give you a free estimate that is useful for most average peeps.

Very obese people can handle greater calorie restrictions for longer periods without weird things happening because...um...they have more energy stored as fat. It's not so good for small people. Where do you think your energy to function is going to come from?

And any doctor that tells you it's ok the eat under 1000 calories a day for an extended period of time, especially with strenuous exercise, without the supervision of a dietitian, routine diagnostic tests, and at least nutritional supplements is investing in his financial future for having you as a patient with chronic health problems in the future.

Best post in this thread.

I can not believe this statement.

Without an objective third party observing my own behavior, I can not make a positive claim about whether or not I am in denial about my behavior.

Denial wouldn't work if you knew you were in denial.

I am no more in denial than any other person. As I am preparing my food, it is weighed/measured and logged before it goes in my body. Even down to the condiment. When I start something I don't do it halfway. And by your argument, if I HAD been in denial, it wouldn't been enough so to stunt weight loss so much that an extra 190 calorie add made possible.

You may be telling the truth. I'm not saying you aren't. I am saying that self-reporting and eye witness testimony are not useful to me. I can't tell if it is accurate at all. It is too close to you, you are too invested in your personal data.

The data where they take people who couldn't lose weight at 1200 cal/day and monitor their caloric intake and don't allow them more then 1200 cal/day is convincing because there is an objective third party.

okay, then explain why anorexics are skinny?

Okay. You have shown the negative. To make your point you need to show all the links where 1200 cal has worked wonders. It also depends on what you are spending those 1200 calories for. Two twinkies and a coke - never happen. Just sayin.........

And what is the proportion of people eating 1200 calories that fall within those parameters? Very small. Guaranteed.

Actually, not that small. Maybe on this website, but generally, the population is getting older and people of my parents generation are the baby boomers, falling square in this age demographic.

FWIW, I don't personally eat 1200 a day, (I eat more -- more like 1600-1900 depending) but I'm disputing that physics has been defied by people who don't lose weight at 1200... that's been disproven ad infinitum but do go on.

And aren't we talking about people "on this website" --isn't this whole thread directed at people on this website? Maybe I'm missing something--if you admit that on this website the proportion of people falling within those parameters is small then you are conceding that for the MAJORITY of people ON THIS WEBSITE 1200 calories is less than ideal.

a) the majority of forum users != majority of site users ... most of my friends are my age or older. (mid 40s to mid 50s, where metabolic slowdown is already starting to occur)

b) I've always maintained that people who are self-reporting a 1200 calorie diet, and are obese, and NOT losing weight, have some other problem... that problem being that they are underreporting their calorie intake. So you going all high and mighty on them to up their intake is less than useful. What would be useful is teaching them how to accurately measure and log their intake so they are able to get a handle on their food logging.