Lose weight first & then lift or do both @ the same time?

24

Replies

  • 5 sets of 15-20.. builds endurance and hard muscles... now diet is key if you have a **** diet you might as welll not even bother.. i wont tell you to cut out carbs but tell you to eat the right carbs at the right time. Whole wheat anything whole grain.. brown rice. Thing of this nature.. we want carbs before we lift for energy protien after for muscle recovery. Meats should only consist of fish chicken turkey and lean beef.. there are others like deer meat and those things but not evwryone can get those.. you should be eaiting 5-6 small meals a day spread out around your workout and dailu life they should be 2 1/2 -3 hours apart. This stimulates your metabolism which.burns calories.... but these are small healthy meals or snacks. Not 6 whoppers a day

    Love this. I will begin tomorrow. Thank you so much. But one more question. Will I still build muscle if I am at a calorie deflect bc I am really needing to lose weight. Or was this a dumb blonde question? I'm sorry if it is! ((I am a blonde so no offense to blondes)).

    Meal frequency, meal timing have no real impact but feel free to follow advice that helps you stck to your plan.

    I can't eat during the day due to my job. I mean I CAN, bc I am the boss, but I am not hungry at all then. And eating makes me sleepy during the day, so I am probably eating the wrong foods then. So I usually don't eat until supper and then a snack or two afterward. I just drink one soda or a glass of diluted juice. Thus I need to start eating during the day don't I? I eat about 1300 calories a day, bc that is all my body wants. I will try to up my calories and eat more frequently.
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    5 sets of 15-20

    Bad advice!

    Have someone teach you all the compound lifts if you don't know them already and lift heavy for 5x5 or 3x8. Start light but work up to heavier weights. Starting Strength is a great book for starting and Stronglifts 5x5 is a free e-book. Compound lifts are better for a balanced body.
    powerlifters and strongman competitor use the 5x5 for what?? To gain mass and strength. You are completely off base here.. i do these routines. But what would i know im only 300lbs amd have won several world powerlifting titles
  • 5 sets of 15-20

    Bad advice!

    Have someone teach you all the compound lifts if you don't know them already and lift heavy for 5x5 or 3x8. Start light but work up to heavier weights. Starting Strength is a great book for starting and Stronglifts 5x5 is a free e-book. Compound lifts are better for a balanced body.

    I don't have anyone to teach me a compound lift. What exactly is that and I will do some research. I AM however, looking seriously at his advice of 5 sets of 15 - 20 bc that is exactly what my trainer had me do. He had me do 3 sets of 15-20 and I believe we only did three sets bc it was full body and we only had an hour. We met two times and sometimes three times a week, it varied based on my prepping for vacations, etc. I got good results from it.

    My trainer was a competitor and won several and trains ppl to compete. They are winning too,.
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    5 sets of 15-20

    Bad advice!

    Have someone teach you all the compound lifts if you don't know them already and lift heavy for 5x5 or 3x8. Start light but work up to heavier weights. Starting Strength is a great book for starting and Stronglifts 5x5 is a free e-book. Compound lifts are better for a balanced body.
    powerlifters and strongman competitor use the 5x5 for what?? To gain mass and strength. You are completely off base here.. i do these routines. But what would i know im only 300lbs amd have won several world powerlifting titles

    A woman eating at a deficit will have a hard time getting much mass but she will get much stronger and firmer developing a strong core. It's all in the body type she is looking for.
  • brandon0523
    brandon0523 Posts: 516
    Then you didnt read her posts.. she said she gained easily.. kids these days
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    Since you aren't new to lifting, you will not gain muscle on a calorie deficit. Since you want to lose weight I assume you are on a calorie deficit. Without lifting, a lot of your weight loss (as much as half of it) will be muscle. To preserve the muscle you have while losing fat, you need to lift and get adequate protein. Without lifting, your body sees no reason to hold on to that muscle. So keep a calorie deficit, lift weights, and get enough protein and you'll get the toned but not bulky look you are wanting. Its as simple as that.

    Okay, I will try it again. It does make sense to do both. Actually nothing else gets me results like lifting. And I do get them fast. In one month I see a difference in my legs, butt and my chest lifts. I just wonder why I looked so big before, unless it was my imagination, but two guys commented and one puffed out at me, lol. That still freaks me out. I have a very petite frame, when I get to goal weight I wear a size 0-2. I have done the bone/frame tests. So maybe I have body-image issues and I wasn't used to the muscle so I THOUGHT I was big.

    Now I'm part of the anti-cleanse posse so feel free to ignore me but what follows is intended as good advice.
    Hey there anti-cleanser, I have absolutely no problem with people who hold opinions and beliefs different than my own. I value everyone for who they are. The only reason I said that to him was because of WHAT he posted. He was clearly being sarcastic. It's a long story so lets not waste our time with that.
    You should do both because strength training, form and the benefits of lifting take time. Even if you are the most unique woman on the face of the earth one of the rate limiting steps will be the amount of Dodd you consume, especially after your initial gains.
    What is a Dodd?
    Second, the muscular gains you are initially seeing are only partially muscle - actually a large part, or even the majority of that gain is glycogen/water swelling - it looks like muscle, feels like muscle but it isn't. This swelling takes anything from a few hours to a few days to lose. Drinking more water actually helps to clear.
    I think I know what you mean now that you say this. What about getting on the treadmill afterward, will this help? And/or the sauna?
    If you are seeing muscular growth that seems above average I suggest you see your GP or sport physician - if it is testosterone driven you shoud know because this can have cardiovascular and other medical effects tat you might want to be more aware of. If it is water retention driven it can be an indicator of various edemic responses to exercise. You probably have nothing but extreme swole can point to things that your trainer would miss.
    I believe I have testosterone levels which are high. There is one other thing that I know is odd and my Mom told me to get tested for testosterone. Dang it. I'm a dude! What is a GP? Gynocologist?
    If you are seeing significant strength increase with the swole then, yes, you are somehow building greater than average muscles and improving on the neuromuscular recruitment - congrats, tae advantage of that. Build up, compete.

    I do get it easily, I am not the kind to compete. I like feminine but toned. As in the fitness comps, but not bodybuilding. AKA, I like the Barbie look . This was very helpful. Thank you!

    Dodd = food. Typo.

    Swole will not be reduced significantly by sauna or treadmill as it is driven by muscular adaptation/recovery mechanism. At its base it is a good thing, it can be reduced by diuretics or anti-histamine/anti-leukotrienes but I REALLY do not recommend that path as the dosages necessary create an increased risk of rhabdomyolysis or compartment syndrome.

    GP is a general practitioner. If you prefer you can get tested direct by a lab in certain states/countries but a referral and a medical reading are usually normal.

    Testosterone is also produced in women, just normally at lower quantities. Testosterone levels do not make you "a dude" not only s there a lot of variability but medical conditions that can result in changes do not suddenly make your sex change. I know you are joking but since it can be traumatic for some, I'm taking it as a serious comment.

    Glad it helped.
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    5 sets of 15-20

    Bad advice!

    Have someone teach you all the compound lifts if you don't know them already and lift heavy for 5x5 or 3x8. Start light but work up to heavier weights. Starting Strength is a great book for starting and Stronglifts 5x5 is a free e-book. Compound lifts are better for a balanced body.

    I don't have anyone to teach me a compound lift. What exactly is that and I will do some research. I AM however, looking seriously at his advice of 5 sets of 15 - 20 bc that is exactly what my trainer had me do. He had me do 3 sets of 15-20 and I believe we only did three sets bc it was full body and we only had an hour. We met two times and sometimes three times a week, it varied based on my prepping for vacations, etc. I got good results from it.

    My trainer was a competitor and won several and trains ppl to compete. They are winning too,.
    A compound lift would be a squat, deadlift. A compound movement would be a push up, chin up, pull up, etc. I still would disagree with 5x20 or 3x20 and most isolation exercises are a waste when you could be doing compound movements that build balance and coordination. But do whatever you want.
  • 5 sets of 15-20

    Bad advice!

    Have someone teach you all the compound lifts if you don't know them already and lift heavy for 5x5 or 3x8. Start light but work up to heavier weights. Starting Strength is a great book for starting and Stronglifts 5x5 is a free e-book. Compound lifts are better for a balanced body.

    I don't have anyone to teach me a compound lift. What exactly is that and I will do some research. I AM however, looking seriously at his advice of 5 sets of 15 - 20 bc that is exactly what my trainer had me do. He had me do 3 sets of 15-20 and I believe we only did three sets bc it was full body and we only had an hour. We met two times and sometimes three times a week, it varied based on my prepping for vacations, etc. I got good results from it.

    My trainer was a competitor and won several and trains ppl to compete. They are winning too,.
    A compound lift would be a squat, deadlift. A compound movement would be a push up, chin up, pull up, etc. I still would disagree with 5x20 or 3x20 and most isolation exercises are a waste when you could be doing compound movements that build balance and coordination. But do whatever you want.

    I have done squats. The pt had me doing 3 sets of 20 with a barbell (mega heavy lifting on that). The compound exercises sound like P90X stuff and he gets great toning results so I can see this working - good idea. That makes sense. Couldn't I alternate? For example, doing the heavy lifting and then on other days do the compound exercises? I own P90X but have never used it. I have a chin up bar too.

    I'll start doing both the heavy lifting and the compounds on alternating days if it isn't too much. I imagine I will be sore though so may have to ease into doing both.
  • taunto
    taunto Posts: 6,420 Member
    People have given you sound advice you have so far chosen to ignore them. I would at this point suggest talking to a personal trainer and a nutritionist since MFP can't help you so far. Good luck in future
  • :love:Gentlemen,

    Thank you all very much for answering my questions. I found very valuable information and I do understand what kind of game plan I need to get going on tomorrow.

    I am very happy that I started this thread.
    Thank you all again SOOOO much :flowerforyou:
  • People have given you sound advice you have so far chosen to ignore them. I would at this point suggest talking to a personal trainer and a nutritionist since MFP can't help you so far. Good luck in future

    I am not ignoring any of them. Where in the world did you get that from? They all offered different advice, but I have found something useful from nearly every person who posted.

    I am going to do 5 sets of 15 - 20 and break it up into body parts (this was from Brandon)

    I am going to eat 5 - 6 mini meals offered also by Brandon (I normally only eat in the evening)

    I am going to get my testosterone checked by a GP and drink more water after a workout to decrease swole (new vocab word for me) all provided by Evgenizytex.

    I am going to do compound exercises (which was new to me before tonight's post) and offered by The Devastator.

    Poster "PU" reminded me to be patient and told me when the results should typically appear so that I won't get frustrated. For that advice I am also thankful.

    SkydiveD30571 explained that I need to watch my calories and not be at a deficit and explained how I can lose muscle, etc.

    I learned A TON. And again, thanks guys!
  • chardi7
    chardi7 Posts: 42 Member
    Whatever you choose remember..."patience young Jedi"

    As an afterthought...also check out/google stronglifts 5X5...I like it so it must be good! Lots of FREE info.
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    I have done squats. The pt had me doing 3 sets of 20 with a barbell (mega heavy lifting on that - omg). The other stuff is P90X stuff and he gets great toning results so I can see this working. That makes sense. Couldn't I alternate? For example, doing the heavy lifting and then on other days do the compound exercises? I own P90X but have never used it. I have a chin up bar too.

    I just can't agree with anyone doing 3x20. Seems like wasted time and energy to me. I mean do heavy lifting with compound lifts. If you can do 3x20 on the squats, it's too light. You should work up to 135 pound squats with 5x5 if you aren't there already.
    This is too complicated to explain but if you want to read into it, Starting Strength is a great book. The main thing is to stay at a deficit while doing these lifts until you have the body you want and then maintain it.

    I didn't mention cardio but you should work up to sprinting. It really is the best way to lose the weight in less time.
  • I have done squats. The pt had me doing 3 sets of 20 with a barbell (mega heavy lifting on that - omg). The other stuff is P90X stuff and he gets great toning results so I can see this working. That makes sense. Couldn't I alternate? For example, doing the heavy lifting and then on other days do the compound exercises? I own P90X but have never used it. I have a chin up bar too.

    I just can't agree with anyone doing 3x20. Seems like wasted time and energy to me. I mean do heavy lifting with compound lifts. If you can do 3x20 on the squats, it's too light. You should work up to 135 pound squats with 5x5 if you aren't there already.
    This is too complicated to explain but if you want to read into it, Starting Strength is a great book. The main thing is to stay at a deficit while doing these lifts until you have the body you want and then maintain it.

    I didn't mention cardio but you should work up to sprinting. It really is the best way to lose the weight in less time.

    I will work up to sprinting for sure. Would you suggest daily and doing it at intervals with walk and jog?

    I will look into the book, I am a reader.
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    If you have hormone imbalances you might want to eat more fennel, flax seed and sesame seeds because they are high in phytoestrogens which help increase good estrogen. Don't ask why I know this!
  • oops double post.
  • Whatever you choose remember..."patience young Jedi"

    As an afterthought...also check out/google stronglifts 5X5...I like it so it must be good! Lots of FREE info.

    What about alternating 5 x 5 one day and then 5 x 15 - 20 with lighter on other days. I know of a trainer who does that.

    Yet my ex PT said the body doesn't need muscle confusion to grow.
  • Definitely both! No doubt! :)
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    5 sets of 15-20.. builds endurance and hard muscles... now diet is key if you have a **** diet you might as welll not even bother.. i wont tell you to cut out carbs but tell you to eat the right carbs at the right time. Whole wheat anything whole grain.. brown rice. Thing of this nature.. we want carbs before we lift for energy protien after for muscle recovery. Meats should only consist of fish chicken turkey and lean beef.. there are others like deer meat and those things but not evwryone can get those.. you should be eaiting 5-6 small meals a day spread out around your workout and dailu life they should be 2 1/2 -3 hours apart. This stimulates your metabolism which.burns calories.... but these are small healthy meals or snacks. Not 6 whoppers a day

    Love this. I will begin tomorrow. Thank you so much. But one more question. Will I still build muscle if I am at a calorie deflect bc I am really needing to lose weight. Or was this a dumb blonde question? I'm sorry if it is! ((I am a blonde so no offense to blondes)).

    Meal frequency, meal timing have no real impact but feel free to follow advice that helps you stck to your plan.
    then why are the leanest people in the world so strict about it?????? People who have professional nutritionist telling them.this..
    There are plenty of lean people that IF, that do one bolus meal, even here you will find people with very low bf% that do not subscribe to either high frequency or specific protein timing. Certainly for someone just starting on weight lifting this is not part of the most important basic information she should be focusing on, IMHO.

    If many meals work for someone great. You can lift and lose bf without it though. Would you like some references here? I can ask them to post.
  • [changed mind
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    I have done squats. The pt had me doing 3 sets of 20 with a barbell (mega heavy lifting on that - omg). The other stuff is P90X stuff and he gets great toning results so I can see this working. That makes sense. Couldn't I alternate? For example, doing the heavy lifting and then on other days do the compound exercises? I own P90X but have never used it. I have a chin up bar too.

    I just can't agree with anyone doing 3x20. Seems like wasted time and energy to me. I mean do heavy lifting with compound lifts. If you can do 3x20 on the squats, it's too light. You should work up to 135 pound squats with 5x5 if you aren't there already.
    This is too complicated to explain but if you want to read into it, Starting Strength is a great book. The main thing is to stay at a deficit while doing these lifts until you have the body you want and then maintain it.

    I didn't mention cardio but you should work up to sprinting. It really is the best way to lose the weight in less time.

    I will work up to sprinting for sure. Would you suggest daily and doing it at intervals with walk and jog?

    I will look into the book, I am a reader.
    It's really up to you. you can go M,W,F cardio T, Th lifting or vice versa or MWF both cardio and lifting with T, Th rest or something completely different.
    It's really up to your schedule and fitness level.
  • I have done squats. The pt had me doing 3 sets of 20 with a barbell (mega heavy lifting on that - omg). The other stuff is P90X stuff and he gets great toning results so I can see this working. That makes sense. Couldn't I alternate? For example, doing the heavy lifting and then on other days do the compound exercises? I own P90X but have never used it. I have a chin up bar too.

    I just can't agree with anyone doing 3x20. Seems like wasted time and energy to me. I mean do heavy lifting with compound lifts. If you can do 3x20 on the squats, it's too light. You should work up to 135 pound squats with 5x5 if you aren't there already.
    This is too complicated to explain but if you want to read into it, Starting Strength is a great book. The main thing is to stay at a deficit while doing these lifts until you have the body you want and then maintain it.

    I didn't mention cardio but you should work up to sprinting. It really is the best way to lose the weight in less time.

    I will work up to sprinting for sure. Would you suggest daily and doing it at intervals with walk and jog?

    I will look into the book, I am a reader.
    It's really up to you. you can go M,W,F cardio T, Th lifting or vice versa or MWF both cardio and lifting with T, Th rest or something completely different.
    It's really up to your schedule and fitness level.

    Was the info on the cardio about alternating sprinting with walking?
  • Cr01502
    Cr01502 Posts: 3,614 Member
    BOTH
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    Was the info on the cardio about alternating sprinting with walking?

    jogging and walking to sprinting and running depending on your fitness level.
  • Was the info on the cardio about alternating sprinting with walking?

    jogging and walking to sprinting and running depending on your fitness level.

    But it is meant as an interval exercise obviously, bc one couldn't sprint for long. Am I correct? I think I just stated the obvious.
  • 5 sets of 15-20.. builds endurance and hard muscles... now diet is key if you have a **** diet you might as welll not even bother.. i wont tell you to cut out carbs but tell you to eat the right carbs at the right time. Whole wheat anything whole grain.. brown rice. Thing of this nature.. we want carbs before we lift for energy protien after for muscle recovery. Meats should only consist of fish chicken turkey and lean beef.. there are others like deer meat and those things but not evwryone can get those.. you should be eaiting 5-6 small meals a day spread out around your workout and dailu life they should be 2 1/2 -3 hours apart. This stimulates your metabolism which.burns calories.... but these are small healthy meals or snacks. Not 6 whoppers a day

    Love this. I will begin tomorrow. Thank you so much. But one more question. Will I still build muscle if I am at a calorie deflect bc I am really needing to lose weight. Or was this a dumb blonde question? I'm sorry if it is! ((I am a blonde so no offense to blondes)).

    Meal frequency, meal timing have no real impact but feel free to follow advice that helps you stck to your plan.
    then why are the leanest people in the world so strict about it?????? People who have professional nutritionist telling them.this..
    There are plenty of lean people that IF, that do one bolus meal, even here you will find people with very low bf% that do not subscribe to either high frequency or specific protein timing. Certainly for someone just starting on weight lifting this is not part of the most important basic information she should be focusing on, IMHO.

    If many meals work for someone great. You can lift and lose bf without it though. Would you like some references here? I can ask them to post.

    I think Capt Apolo (sp) is an IF, because I read it on his profile today but not even sure what "IF" means? . Does it mean "IF I eat?" or rather fasting?
  • TheDevastator
    TheDevastator Posts: 1,626 Member
    But it is meant as an interval exercise obviously, bc one couldn't sprint for long. Am I correct? I think I just stated the obvious.

    Yes, it's interval training. sometimes I'll just jump on a treadmill and do 1 min on 5 mph and 1 min on 10 mph and leave because I dislike cardio but my heart rate will be high so it helps.
  • samsamnojam
    samsamnojam Posts: 34 Member
    I think you do have some bodyweight issues, hun. I think it's just as important to try to adjust your perspective on what you're body was like when you were toned and strong but you felt 'bulky'. And please, please, try to forget how those guys reacted at the time. Remember that a lot of guys are only interested in women who look like models, and we know that a lot of those women are unhealthy-skinny. Being a fit, strong woman requires a whole new appreciation of body shape and size. I'm an endomorph like you, and even when I was at my goal weight, in my mid-twenties, I still felt quite bulky, and still wore a UK size 14 (think 2 sizes smaller than a US 14). That's because I had a lot of muscle.
    I didn't feel like I fitted into the popular convention of fit or beautiful, but I've adjusted my attitude a lot since then and now I appreciate my body for it's strength (though I am overweight at the moment too).

    You know you have to build muscle now. Losing muscle mass is madness, if you can avoid it. Be careful how you diet and do the right kind of training. Sounds like you've been given loads of good advice here about that. To be honest, I don't really know what the best route is. I talk to one trainer who tells me to lift heavy and then another tells me to lift light with lots of reps or do cardio. I'm inclined to go with the first one. Good luck.
  • samsamnojam
    samsamnojam Posts: 34 Member
    5 sets of 15-20.. builds endurance and hard muscles... now diet is key if you have a **** diet you might as welll not even bother.. i wont tell you to cut out carbs but tell you to eat the right carbs at the right time. Whole wheat anything whole grain.. brown rice. Thing of this nature.. we want carbs before we lift for energy protien after for muscle recovery. Meats should only consist of fish chicken turkey and lean beef.. there are others like deer meat and those things but not evwryone can get those.. you should be eaiting 5-6 small meals a day spread out around your workout and dailu life they should be 2 1/2 -3 hours apart. This stimulates your metabolism which.burns calories.... but these are small healthy meals or snacks. Not 6 whoppers a day

    Love this. I will begin tomorrow. Thank you so much. But one more question. Will I still build muscle if I am at a calorie deflect bc I am really needing to lose weight. Or was this a dumb blonde question? I'm sorry if it is! ((I am a blonde so no offense to blondes)).

    Meal frequency, meal timing have no real impact but feel free to follow advice that helps you stck to your plan.
    then why are the leanest people in the world so strict about it?????? People who have professional nutritionist telling them.this..
    There are plenty of lean people that IF, that do one bolus meal, even here you will find people with very low bf% that do not subscribe to either high frequency or specific protein timing. Certainly for someone just starting on weight lifting this is not part of the most important basic information she should be focusing on, IMHO.

    If many meals work for someone great. You can lift and lose bf without it though. Would you like some references here? I can ask them to post.

    I think Capt Apolo (sp) is an IF, because I read it on his profile today but not even sure what "IF" means? . Does it mean "IF I eat?" or rather fasting?

    IF = Intermittent Fasting

    Doesn't work for me.
  • SkimFlatWhite68
    SkimFlatWhite68 Posts: 1,254 Member
    Lots of information to digest in this thread and sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Thanks all!