Paleo vs The China Study - What are your views?
Replies
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information I've gleaned from reading The China Study and The Paleo Diet for Athletes, along with perusing Mark's Daily Apple.
Explains alot.0 -
information I've gleaned from reading The China Study and The Paleo Diet for Athletes, along with perusing Mark's Daily Apple.
Explains alot.
should I have read something else besides The China Study to learn about The China Study?0 -
The agricultural revolution is why we are here now.I am pro Paleo...The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years.
Pretty sure this is missed tounge-in-cheek. If you look at his diary he eats enough bread to start his own bakery.0 -
information I've gleaned from reading The China Study and The Paleo Diet for Athletes, along with perusing Mark's Daily Apple.
Explains alot.
should I have read something else besides The China Study to learn about The China Study?
Start here:
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/0 -
I find all of these "diets" to be rather absurd. It's one or a small group of people jumping up and down about an idea saying "hey, look what we did". But they all seem to go to one extreme or another. What the paleo group seems to overlook is that man continued to evolve and survive well past that particular point in history.
The human body is an amazing machine. It can and has adapted to change. People live quite happy, healthy lives eating only vegetables. Others eat animal parts predominantly and thrive quite well. Each and every person is different. What works for one may well put the next in the hospital.0 -
I am pro Paleo...The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years.
Your Paleo diet (sorry, I mean "lifestyle") would be absolutely, unequivocally IMPOSSIBLE without the agricultural revolution. Without agriculture, how are you going to get your year long, ample supply of organic kale and berries? How do you get eggs, much less every morning to go along side your bacon, which comes from a domesticated animal? Where does your grass fed steak come from? How do you explain people in snowy climates having access to the endless quantities coconut milk, coconut oil, coconut flour this diet seems to demand?
Yeah, ok, I fell for it. But there are tons of Paleos who have been brainwashed to believe this. It's a freaking cult.0 -
information I've gleaned from reading The China Study and The Paleo Diet for Athletes, along with perusing Mark's Daily Apple.
Explains alot.
should I have read something else besides The China Study to learn about The China Study?
Start here:
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
that's ok.0 -
I've never watched Forks, nor am I likely to, as I'm a cheap beast and am not going to pay to view an "diet documentary". I've seen the preview though, and have heard the old guy saying that the Chinese did not eat animal product. Seriously! Have you ever been for dim sum? Chicken feet, tripe, and cow stomach are NOT made of tofu. And, those are certainly not part of a SAD (or happy, depending on what you think of chicken feet) diet.
Because that fallacy is the basis for the study, I already know the study is flawed. Besides, China is a very industrialzed nation, with fewer people living on rice patty farms then working in factories, and that was the case before McDonalds moved in.0 -
The agricultural revolution is why we are here now.I am pro Paleo...The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years.
Pretty sure this is missed tounge-in-cheek. If you look at his diary he eats enough bread to start his own bakery.
LOL start a bakery! Thats funny stuff there. See people let this be a lesson to us all if you are going to write sarcasm make sure to add something slightly unbeliveable so it reads better. Look at us all now doubting this poor guy's intelligence when he could have the IQ of Einstein. I feel bad now.
This is how I would have written this sentence:
I am pro Paleo only eat raw deer carcass...The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years. Why if there hadn't been any grains around we would all have cool hover boards and warp drive by now.0 -
The agricultural revolution is why we are here now.I am pro Paleo...The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years.
Pretty sure this is missed tounge-in-cheek. If you look at his diary he eats enough bread to start his own bakery.
Oh, thank fluff for that (Hid diary isn't open to non-friends, though)0 -
My sister went Paleo two years ago. She was close to 300 lb. at the time, now she is below 210 and on her way to onederland! Her doctor advised against Paleo but she had high chol., was borderline diabetic, all her numbers were bad. A year later the same doctor apologized when the same tests were run. All of her numbers were much lower, no more high chol. or risk of diabetes. She made me a believer, even though I am not in a position to go full paleo.
Real numbers!! Not hype.
I was close to 300 myself, and I lost a decent amount of weight focusing mostly on calorie deficit with no real change in the type of food I eat. All of my numbers have dropped considerably to a very acceptable range. I've managed the same thing as your sister but with the enjoyment of donuts, toast, potatoes, corn, nuts, etc, etc, etc. There are many, many, many more on MFP who can spout the same results as me. Some will claim vegan, some will claim paleo, some will claim IIFYM.
Not trying to take anything away from your sister, great for her, but her results are not indicative of a paleo supremacy. For me, personally, the most important thing is calorie deficit for weight loss, exercise and lifting weights for fitness and body composition.0 -
I was a vegetarian, near vegan for almost 20 years. When I was in my twenties it worked just fine. by 40 I couldn't help but see that I had no energy, I was putting on tons of weight, I was utterly fatigued all the time. As I was beginning to experiment with adding in a little meat, my husband red the China Study and became fascinated. I started to read it but so many basic flaws in the causation that was being presumed which was actually just correlation. Believe me, i wanted to believe it b/c i validated what I'd been spouting since I'd been 17. I also was in love with Kris Carr's book Crazy Sexy Diet (more kudos to the vegan side) Of course, over the next few years the China Study research was widely debunked. Anyone switched from the SAD to China Study eating would certainly get healthier though. Then I had the pleasure of hearing both Gary Taubes and Mark Sisson speak. This stuff was against my grain, but they made fundamental sense. I had to read more. (I've come to not love Sisson as much). Then I read It Starts With Food (more Paleo) by the Hartwigs (this is perhaps the most entertaining and and went from now mostly vegetarian to doing their 30 day all whole foods, high quality Paleo. I never felt better in my life. I was sold! I have since come to understand that there isn't one true diet, but rather, there's what helps each person thrive best, and is sustainable at this particular moment in our lives. Once I found this brilliant article my Natasha Campbell-McBride, I got it. I could clearly see how it all fits together. And this is what has resonated in my own body, which is the only way we can really know what is true for us
http://www.doctor-natasha.com/feeding-versus-cleansing.php0 -
I didnt read all the replies, but i did read 'the paleo solution' and its full of science. its written by a biochemist and he explains everything in great detail. he had very bad health issues that have been resolved since changing his diet. He has a bunch of success stories of people in remission from arthitis, RA and a bunch aof other auto-imune diseases. he gives out a load of information on his website its not like a 'buy my book and youll find out' . robbwolf.com and theres also Marksdailyapple.com
i think paleo/primal is the way to go
just wish i could stcik to it0 -
oh theres also an awesome vid on youtube its called fat head or fathead. its a documentary thats about an hour long more or less. in that vid you can see how the government silenced some studies because it wasnt profitable for them.0
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oh theres also an awesome vid on youtube its called fat head or fathead. its a documentary thats about an hour long more or less. in that vid you can see how the government silenced some studies because it wasnt profitable for them.
"Fat Head should be renamed Hollow Head for what it does to people's education of the various topics it butchers. A good way to make knowledgable people want to punch their monitor is have them sit through that raging piece of crap. " ~ Alan Aragon0 -
I was a vegetarian, near vegan for almost 20 years. When I was in my twenties it worked just fine. by 40 I couldn't help but see that I had no energy, I was putting on tons of weight, I was utterly fatigued all the time. As I was beginning to experiment with adding in a little meat, my husband red the China Study and became fascinated. I started to read it but so many basic flaws in the causation that was being presumed which was actually just correlation. Believe me, i wanted to believe it b/c i validated what I'd been spouting since I'd been 17. I also was in love with Kris Carr's book Crazy Sexy Diet (more kudos to the vegan side) Of course, over the next few years the China Study research was widely debunked. Anyone switched from the SAD to China Study eating would certainly get healthier though. Then I had the pleasure of hearing both Gary Taubes and Mark Sisson speak. This stuff was against my grain, but they made fundamental sense. I had to read more. (I've come to not love Sisson as much). Then I read It Starts With Food (more Paleo) by the Hartwigs (this is perhaps the most entertaining and and went from now mostly vegetarian to doing their 30 day all whole foods, high quality Paleo. I never felt better in my life. I was sold! I have since come to understand that there isn't one true diet, but rather, there's what helps each person thrive best, and is sustainable at this particular moment in our lives. Once I found this brilliant article my Natasha Campbell-McBride, I got it. I could clearly see how it all fits together. And this is what has resonated in my own body, which is the only way we can really know what is true for us
http://www.doctor-natasha.com/feeding-versus-cleansing.php
I agree with you completely-- I watched a talked Gary Taubes gave on why people get fat and he really gave some interesting food for thought on fat accumulation being more complicated than thermodynamics.0 -
Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.0 -
Have you seen "Foods that Kill"? It is a documentary, you can find it on youtube. He goes into explaining how fats work through our system, plant vs. animal. I am a plant based eater, and my family made the change after watching Forks Over Knives a year ago. I think you would like the Foods that Kill documentary.0
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I have been eating Paleo/primal ( hard to ditch all dairy) 80% or so, exercising, lifting and losing weight for 10 months. Before starting I was diabetic (metformin), on BP meds and my dr wanted me on insulin. I have dropped all the meds and brought my BP to 110/65, my avg BG to 90-100 and dropped 70lbs.
I can't say it was just the diet, but it played a large roll. I was a little concerned about my blood work so I had it checked. My HDL was low, but my dr said it was either because my total was so low or from the weight loss and it would balance out.
Total: 130
Tri: 65
LDL: 90
HDL: 27
Ratio: 4.8
my log is open... True paleo peeps will shun the occasional peanut butter, treats and yogurts/cheese.0 -
Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.
Didn't you tell a pro wrestler the other day to use spinach and kale as protein sources? Everyone **** starts, they just don't know it
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Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.
Didn't you tell a pro wrestler the other day to use spinach and kale as protein sources? Everyone **** starts, they just don't know it
He was a prowrester? Didn't see that. And a little spinach and kale never hurt anyone
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I say eat like a Japanese.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I didnt read all the replies, but i did read 'the paleo solution' and its full of science. its written by a biochemist and he explains everything in great detail. he had very bad health issues that have been resolved since changing his diet. He has a bunch of success stories of people in remission from arthitis, RA and a bunch aof other auto-imune diseases. he gives out a load of information on his website its not like a 'buy my book and youll find out' . robbwolf.com and theres also Marksdailyapple.com
i think paleo/primal is the way to go
just wish i could stcik to it
Is that so! The sort of mainstream nutritional advice for those conditions, when any is offered, is to follow a kind of Mediterranean diet.. will check that link, thanks.
edit: yeah really not sure I can part with my yogurt or coffee cream. very quick scan of literature suggests any anti-inflammatory effect could be related to increased fish consumption, not nec the exclusion of grains... but will keep reading. but really really really not sure about the idea of losing my dairy
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My sister went Paleo two years ago. She was close to 300 lb. at the time, now she is below 210 and on her way to onederland! Her doctor advised against Paleo but she had high chol., was borderline diabetic, all her numbers were bad. A year later the same doctor apologized when the same tests were run. All of her numbers were much lower, no more high chol. or risk of diabetes. She made me a believer, even though I am not in a position to go full paleo.
Real numbers!! Not hype.
When a person is 300 lbs. any controlled diet is going to improve their stats.0 -
The agricultural revolution has been nothing but a bane on our species and has set the human race back thousands of years.
This is, quite possibly, the stupidest thing I have read here. Ever.
Yes, that comment is definitely a strange one. For one, I love my garden. For two, I love being able to run to the store to get a gallon of milk without ever having to touch a cow. :laugh:
Just wow!0 -
Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.
Didn't you tell a pro wrestler the other day to use spinach and kale as protein sources? Everyone **** starts, they just don't know it
He was a prowrester? Didn't see that. And a little spinach and kale never hurt anyone
Spinach is delicious! But it belongs as a side dish, next to my red meat!0 -
Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.
Didn't you tell a pro wrestler the other day to use spinach and kale as protein sources? Everyone **** starts, they just don't know it
He was a prowrester? Didn't see that. And a little spinach and kale never hurt anyone
Spinach is delicious! But it belongs as a side dish, next to my red meat!
I like it as a main dish.
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Scanning this thread I have seen no one post any studies. I think there are more fundamental questions here:
Do humans need to eat meat or anything that comes from animals?
Is wheat proven to be bad for people that aren't sensitive or have an intolerance to it?
Honestly I think this was a *kitten* starter thread.
i didn;t post this to cause trouble I cannot be held responsible for people arguing their point so aggressively with each other!
I was simply looking for peoples opinions on both diets, not just which is best. I am of the belief that we should eat a whole food diet with grass fed/organic meats/eggs, organic vegetables, some nuts and seeds, small quantities of legumes and zero wheat and zero refined carbs. That's what I think. I just wanted to understand better why people think Paleo works for them is all.
I just found some of the documentaries and books I have read recently very interesting and wanted to discuss them with likeminded individuals, not start a thread for people to bash each other.0 -
Google the Wahls Foundation, or check it out on Facebook for another interesting perspective. You could also look for Dr. Wahls book, "Minding your mitochondria." I'm not a follower, but she has an interesting perspective and some clinical experience. I'm glad to see you do favor grass-fed beef.0
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I think that unless you have an allergy or a true intolerance there is no need to cut anything out of your diet. Eat healthily with all things in moderation and leave some room for "naughty" treats and you won't go far wrong. Balance is the key.
I have read several articles debunking the china study - and more are now debunking paleo. If it works for you then great - but there is no real need to cut stuff out just because someone wrote a book on it, even if that someone has a PhD.0
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