Body pump as weight training ?

You will get strength gains in bodypump as long as you are working to fatigue.

Exactly... like I said before, if you lift heavy enough, use resistence/follow proper form, and work to fatigue you will make gains.
I am proof of it.

Don't get me wrong some people in my class use an empty bar and have no resistence in their moves and you wonder why they are there....

I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.

You want cardio, go for a run.

ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.

I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.

Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.

That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.

Bodypump is absolutely the latter.

Categorize it any way you want. You will get strength gains in bodypump as long as you are working to fatigue. You will get MORE gains if you do lower reps, but that doesn't mean you will get ZERO gains from high reps. That is a persistent myth that is not supported by research.

Who ever said there would be no gains? You get strength gains in your legs running miles on end as well...but that doesn't qualify it as 'strength training'.

Look at it like this, it's an overlapping scale. Low reps (4-6 or so) for strength, mid reps (8-12) for building muscle, high reps for endurance (15+). You will build endurance with low reps, just not much. You will build strength with high reps, just not much. Many people work in the middle range for some of both benefits. For fat burning, I want hormonal response...which is promoted most efficiently in the low rep range. Plus I...and those I most often deal with...are looking for strength improvement and fat loss far more than 'bigger muscles', or to be able to 'lift weights longer' etc.

Form follows function.

Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.

That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.

Bodypump is absolutely the latter.

OK well "that's great" that you feel this way. I personally don't care :laugh:

If you pick up a weight during a cardio session, it becomes more than just a cardio session. The standard is what YOU set in your mind. Telling someone to jump into the free weights area because you don't consider a workout that incorporates weights in your standards doesn't mean it is any less part of the general scope of weight training.

It's not just me...it's a fitness industry standard...used so everyone can be on the same page when they discuss exercise programs (instead of just flinging wild opinions based on how they 'feel'). Go argue it with the people that developed it.

And I didn't tell her to jump into freeweights. You might take a look at what was actually written before replying next time.

I do body pump 2 times a week and I can see muscle definition, and I am steadily increasing my weights... so while I can't say it's the same as lifting in the weight room it offers way more than cardio. If you are lifting heavy enough, you are doing the moves properly/with resistence and you are working hard enough to increase your weights there is a benefit to it.

You want cardio, go for a run.

ETA: So are the ones suggesting pump is only cardio, also suggesting using the circuit weight machines is only cardio too?
I have seen FAR more changes in my muscles/body, since starting body pump.

I don't think anyone said it's ONLY cardio. It is primarily cardio in nature--yes. I don't get the comparison between body pump and the weight machines.

Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.

That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.

Bodypump is absolutely the latter.

so what if i am doing pyramid set???? i am doing just as many reps as in a body pump class so is that considered endurance/cardio too???

a bunch of freaking know it all that dont know **** just because they are afraid to try new stuff. 3 sets of 10-12 reps of the same exercise over and over again gets very boring; keep it fresh

I agree, it's very boring. I just would hate to see someone who is curious complete stop what is working for them at their pace because some of us more 'advanced' lifters don't "consider" it to be partial weight training. I think this class is too easy for me but to another, it may be the beginning of learning a love for lifting.

I agree... there will come a time where I will have to leave the pump class for the larger muscles. I am getting very close to being unable to lift my squat weight above my head -- so I will need the machine for squats.

Actually, a few people here are insisting it's just cardio. If you have weights in your hand, it can be considered weight training, low rep, high rep, it doesn't matter. Everyone's definition of "weight training" is different. I have moved away from these kind of classes as my primary source of weight lifting, now spending a lot of time in the free weights area with barbells.. I still consider both to be weight lifting, one just has more cardio involved than the other.

That's great that you consider it both. That's great that you consider anything involving weight 'weight training'. There is actually a set standard of what is considered 'weight training' (or more correctly stated 'strength training'), and what is considered endurance/cardio.

Bodypump is absolutely the latter.

OK well "that's great" that you feel this way. I personally don't care :laugh:

If you pick up a weight during a cardio session, it becomes more than just a cardio session. The standard is what YOU set in your mind. Telling someone to jump into the free weights area because you don't consider a workout that incorporates weights in your standards doesn't mean it is any less part of the general scope of weight training.

It's not just me...it's a fitness industry standard...used so everyone can be on the same page when they discuss exercise programs (instead of just flinging wild opinions based on how they 'feel'). Go argue it with the people that developed it.

And I didn't tell her to jump into freeweights. You might take a look at what was actually written before replying next time.

I read very carefully. You're just coming off as really pushy and argumentative... OP is not at your level, if you are here to be helpful, start off by posting links that back up your claims of "fitness industry standard" so that we all may be educated instead of arguing with anyone who doesn't post what you think. It doesn't make it fact and you won't change my mind.

Who ever said there would be no gains? You get strength gains in your legs running miles on end as well...but that doesn't qualify it as 'strength training'.

You will build muscle with high reps. And it isn't "doing squat for you" (your words) in terms of strength training, if you are working to fatigue. Your post on what builds muscle implied that you won't build muscle with high reps. Low, medium, high all will build muscle using different mechanisms and with differing levels of increase. Medium may be "the best" but it doesn't mean that bodypump "isn't going to do squat" because it is high reps.

Lets try this a different way. What are you doing in bodypump? Trying to 'build muscle'? Trying to 'burn fat'? What's your goal? Weight loss? Strength gain? Lets establish a basis for discussion here.

I read very carefully. You're just coming off as really pushy and argumentative... OP is not at your level, if you are here to be helpful, start off by posting links that back up your claims of "fitness industry standard" so that we all may be educated instead of arguing with anyone who doesn't post what you think. It doesn't make it fact and you won't change my mind.

Links? You need links to back up one of the basics of strength training? I'm sorry miss, but it's pretty clear that 'links' won't change your mind either. And honestly, if I'm coming off as pushy and argumentative, you're coming off as defensive and stubborn (I was going to add another adjective here as well...but it wouldn't come off as politely as I'm intending this...so I didn't. You can fill in the blank yourself) lol. This isn't about what 'level' someone is at. Level, in general...is a factor of the amount of weight you're lifting, not the routine you're doing.

Also, you clearly did NOT read carefully. I never told the OP to enter the freeweight section. You stated that I did. Pretty cut and dry.

I never get these debates. It's like people want to wave a magic wand over an activity and magically declare it's something that it obviously isn't. If I go for a 3 mile run with dumbbells in my hand do I suddenly call it heavy lifting? If I am doing heavy lifting in the gym but add a few jumping jacks between sets, do I get to log it as an hour of aerobics?

Body pump is not lifting, sorry. It's a form of cardio, like circuit training. Does it have benefits? Absolutely. Can you use it exclusively to get in shape? Maybe, if that's your thing. But it's not lifting. For my non-lifting day work, I take dumbbells or a 50-80 lb sandbag and do a series of exercises for 40 mins with no rest breaks. Am I lifting something heavy? Sure feels like it. But am I 'lifting heavy'? No. No. No. No. That's cardio.

Do Body Pump if you want. Don't lift if you don't want to. But don't NOT lift and then tell people that you're lifting.

Last note: if I'm paying for a gym and there's a section I'd like to use, then I'm going to use it. I don't avoid the yoga studio because there's too many flexible women in there or avoid the spin bikes because there's too many endurance athletes in there. It's my gym same as it's their gym and if I choose to not go in those areas, it's because I'm just making an excuse to not do something I didn't want to do anyway.

I never get these debates. It's like people want to wave a magic wand over an activity and magically declare it's something that it obviously isn't. If I go for a 3 mile run with dumbbells in my hand do I suddenly call it heavy lifting? If I am doing heavy lifting in the gym but add a few jumping jacks between sets, do I get to log it as an hour of aerobics?

Body pump is not lifting, sorry. It's a form of cardio, like circuit training. Does it have benefits? Absolutely. Can you use it exclusively to get in shape? Maybe, if that's your thing. But it's not lifting. For my non-lifting day work, I take dumbbells or a 50-80 lb sandbag and do a series of exercises for 40 mins with no rest breaks. Am I lifting something heavy? Sure feels like it. But am I 'lifting heavy'? No. No. No. No. That's cardio.

Do Body Pump if you want. Don't lift if you don't want to. But don't NOT lift and then tell people that you're lifting.

Last note: if I'm paying for a gym and there's a section I'd like to use, then I'm going to use it. I don't avoid the yoga studio because there's too many flexible women in there or avoid the spin bikes because there's too many endurance athletes in there. It's my gym same as it's there gym and if I choose to not go in those areas, it's because I'm just making an excuse to not do something I didn't want to do anyway.

Everything he said.

I get how the "man" section of the gym can be intimidating, but you have every right to be there if you want. If you don't, that's cool, but don't let fear prevent you from going over there and doing your thing.

I take BP classes 3x a week and I love them. I can't speak as to whether they are better than machines, but I will say that BP has lowered my body fat, helped me lose 10 inches, and I can lift more now than when I started the class.

Most importantly it got me interested in weight lifting and I'm about to transition to heavy lifting. I've always been intimidated by the free weights section too but this class has taught me the basic moves and form to feel confident enough to venture over there.

I'd say at least check it out!

Body pump is not lifting agreed.. we are talking about weight training though which is really a large scope when you think about. Maybe I am too open minded.

Anyway, I found it hard until recently to even work up the nerve to get into the lifting section of my gym. All I saw were amazingly built men who spent a lot of time at the machines. It was intimidating.. one day I just decided to go do barbell squats and realized that all my fears had gone away. No one was watching me, harassing me and everyone gave me my space (as I gave them theirs). After that, I went to the bench press area, and spent a lot of time waiting and watching. I wanted something more challenging than the fitness classes at the Y so I was ready mentally for a new weight training routine.

I highly recommend lifting if you want to get serious with your weight training and if you find BodyPump not challenging, however, I also believe in taking baby steps. You are more likely to quit if you jump head over heels from what may be still challenging to you to another new world. People on MFP including crisanderson will be here when you are ready to make that move and have any questions. Best of luck

I taught Body Pump for about two years before stopping to have my bub. Post bub, I now do weight training by myself near the boys in the free weights section. After quite a long time around gyms...I don't feel intimidated at all in that section myself anymore but totally understand you not wanting to be there yet. It can be very intimidating until you feel ready. I often see women/girls wander over, dying to have a go of something and kind of slipping away...scared of looking silly as they learn.

I loved my time teaching Pump, I guess the biggest difference I can tell you - is free weights will change your body faster and you will become stronger quicker. Pump is all about keeping the weight lighter and doing a LOT of reps. So each muscle group - you will spend a minimum of five minutes....sometimes up to about seven minutes doing very similar movements. Whereas these days I do four sets of eight reps of each exercise - and am by far in much better shape that when I was teaching - even post baby. Although Pump is FANTASTIC if you have no to little idea about weights/exercises/correct form/etc. The instructor is right there telling you how to perform each move to help you not become injured. So it's always a great place to start.

I think pump falls somewhere between cardio and lifting....

*gasp* are you suggesting that this is not a black and white issue???

I used to go to a functional fitness gym. Almost every class was a mix of "lifting" and cardio. Of course, I might be offending certain folks here by claiming that me doing 10 dead lifts of a heavy kettlebell is lifting just as jumping rope for 1000 revolutions is cardo. Who knows...

I am just maintaining that pump is not only cardio.

Anyway, I found it hard until recently to even work up the nerve to get into the lifting section of my gym. All I saw were amazingly built men who spent a lot of time at the machines. It was intimidating.. one day I just decided to go do barbell squats and realized that all my fears had gone away. No one was watching me, harassing me and everyone gave me my space (as I gave them theirs). After that, I went to the bench press area, and spent a lot of time waiting and watching. I wanted something more challenging than the fitness classes at the Y so I was ready mentally for a new weight training routine.

I highly recommend lifting if you want to get serious with your weight training and if you find BodyPump not challenging, however, I also believe in taking baby steps. You are more likely to quit if you jump head over heels from what may be still challenging to you to another new world. People on MFP including crisanderson will be here when you are ready to make that move and have any questions. Best of luck

Excellent, and reasonable post. I agree with this 150%.

For the record, I never took exception to bodypump, just to people stating that it is weight/strength training.

To the OP, again...if you don't want to lift freeweights, the machines can absolutely be useful to you. I'd highly suggest freeweights, but that choice is yours.

Of course, I might be offending certain folks here by claiming that me doing 10 dead lifts of a heavy kettlebell is lifting just as jumping rope for 1000 revolutions is cardo.

Why would that offend anyone? If the kettlebell is heavy enough you can only lift it 10x...it's absolutely strength training/lifting. Pushups are strength training as well, if performed in a manner where your reps are limited to under 15 (preferably under 12 in my opinion) by your strength. Same for jumping jacks (if you're so out of shape you can't do 15 in a row). Those things become 'heavy' lifting if you can't perform them more than 8x. For some people the act of standing up is absolutely strength training. The thing that differentiates strength training (and heavy lifting) from cardio/endurance type exercises, isn't the exercise itself. It's the effort required to lift the weight involved. We gauge this by the amount of reps you can perform with a given weight. I can do squats with a bare barbell (45lbs usually) forever. Is this lifting for me? NO. Add 300lbs to that bar...and suddenly my reps drop to 4. Same exercise, and now it's heavy lifting. For my 15yr old daughter...the bar alone is heavy lifting.

Is my point clearer now?

This thread is hilarious, I am particularly enjoying reading the haughty comments of heavy lifters who clearly have never been to a class. I've been doing pump for several years now and I can tell you that my favourite moments are when those like these cocky 'heavy lifters' come to class and think they know it all. Yet halfway through the second track, the squat track, they realise they don't. They struggle so much with endurance, their form is appalling and they have to put their weights down well before the breaks. Yet they are probably lifting a fraction of what they would lift usually. They never come back.

Giving advice on classes you don't attend makes as much sense as me giving advice on heavy lifting which I don't do.

Ultimately I would like to combine the endurance benefits of pump with the strength gains of low reps, but I have so much more fun in pump than I would ever have lifting on my own in the gym. I have substantially increased my upper body strength through pump and it is very good for teaching technique.

Of course the heavy lifters don't excel in your class. They aren't endurance athletes. The fact that they do so poorly in a body pump class sort of proves the point that it's not heavy lifting, doesn't it?

pump it up!!!