Keto Diet

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  • digitalsteel
    digitalsteel Posts: 374 Member
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    link me the full study.

    There are variables which have been mentioned, such as TEF and dehydration... depend how they calculated bodyfat... many variables to account for.

    Since fat is not carbs(loads muscle with glycogen and water), it's possible it had a dehydration effect, and it doesn't WEIGH much per volume.

    Consume 500 calories from fat then weigh yourself and compare that to 500 calories of protein... there is a difference.

    http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16623456/762005489/name/28131415-Kekwick-Pawan-1956-Lancet.pdf

    Wait, they gave them 10,000mg of salt a day, and then found what you think is statistical weight loss after 7-9 days?!

    That was done as a control to make sure varying ammounts of salt was not the reason...

    This was just the first set of tests... you should read the whole thing.

    Actually it was for both diet series 1 and 2, and they said that diet series 3 was an extension of diet series 2 to show that the same results could be obtained using "normal portions". They do not specifically mention how many mg of salt were given, so it's difficult to say.

    That is a good point, but I would still think because of how they tested for body fat % that it should be irelivant. Even though it is not explisitly tested for in this study, I dont think it would impact the results. I have never been too concerned with sodium intake, but let me read a few other things over with that in mind to see how it might cause an error in calculation.
  • meusey
    meusey Posts: 5 Member
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    Strung out on pixie sticks man! *twitch* *twitch*
  • CoderGal
    CoderGal Posts: 6,800 Member
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    If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.

    Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.

    Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
    I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:

    Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
    ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
    So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:
  • digitalsteel
    digitalsteel Posts: 374 Member
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    If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.

    Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.

    Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
    I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:

    Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
    ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
    So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:

    Check the references here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction
    And before you scoff at wikipedia before even looking, dont. Read it, follow the references, then discuss.
  • CoderGal
    CoderGal Posts: 6,800 Member
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    If cutting carbs sucks for you then why are you doing this? You don't have to experience discomfort or suffering. You'll be much better off if you're comfortable and happy.

    Some may think this is extreme, but cocain addicts use the same ideal as this. I find sugar, grains, and the like that pump your body full of glucose cause an addiction affect in the brain. It is literaly the same reaction. There are even studies to prove this.

    Can you post these studies? I'm having a hard time seeing the two as comparable.
    I'm going to make one up. The brain runs on glucose (that part isn't made up). Giving yourself glucose can make the brain happy. Cutting it out makes it feel like the same reaction as an addiction affect on the brain because...the brain needs it to live :laugh:

    Actually http://ezinearticles.com/?Wellness-Coaching---Your-Brain-Was-Designed-for-Ketones&id=6490960
    ROFL....If I'm looking for credibility, you know it's going to be from someone whos credentials is holistic guy who co-founded a day spa. This sounds more like an advertisement then a reference.
    So it may be because I'm totally coked out of my mine on the coke I'm drinking with my vegetable stirfry right now (since it contains sugar :drinker:). But was there anything other then she spa dude supporting sugar=cocaine other then the fact it looks kinda similar in a pile? :laugh:

    Check the references here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction
    And before you scoff at wikipedia before even looking, dont. Read it, follow the references, then discuss.
    lol In that case isn't anything anyone is addicted to like cocaine? I'm addicted to exercise. I should probably stop. Should people addicted to food completely stop eating? Should people addicted to vitamin pills stop eating things with vitamins? Some people are addicted to fat. Gluck limiting that and trying to absorb nutrients...
  • Nreumann
    Nreumann Posts: 3
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    Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.
  • dare2love81
    dare2love81 Posts: 928 Member
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    Most people use it as a SHORT TERM diet to help jump start their weight loss. But the fact remains, for *most* people (me included) such a low carb diet is not sustainable for very long. One of my friends has been doing keto since November. Problem is, she eats well for a few days, then binges and has to re-set all over again. Kind of defeats the purpose. And as many have said, the minute you reintroduce carbs back into your diet, you will regain most (all) of the weight.

    So, sure, it'll work if you want to eat that way for the rest of your life. Personally, I enjoy my carbs and there are much more balanced ways of losing weight that acheive the same end result. I think it's better to find a "diet" that isn't really a diet, and represents a more realistic way of how you're going to eat for the rest of your life (for the most part) not just until you hit goal weight. It may take longer to lose the weight, but it's more likely that you'll keep the weight off long term if you choose to "diet" this way.

    Everything in moderation, and exercise. It's really not that hard, and doesn't have to be so strictly restrictive.
  • ze_hombre
    ze_hombre Posts: 377 Member
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    Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.

    There is a very big difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. Ketoacidosis is not the goal of a ketogenic diet. Keto diets were used for many years to treat diabetes and epilepsy. If done properly there is little to no ill effects of keto diets and some studies have shown that, at least short term bouts of, ketosis is not only normal but may have some benefit. The fact that you are confusing ketoacidosis with Atkins tells me you might work in healthcare, but aren't a doctor or have any medical training.
  • digitalsteel
    digitalsteel Posts: 374 Member
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    Nice to hear someone with some sense. I'm in healthcare, and there are much healthier ways to lose weight (hence the use of tools like this website.) Putting your body into ketoacidosis is more then ramping up your pancreas. The effects on the kidneys can be pretty nasty as well. I personally will never follow an atkins diet, or keto diet. Seems like people think there is some magic involved in weight loss. Two simple things folks, balanced proper nutrition and exercise.

    There is a very big difference between ketoacidosis and ketogenic diets. Ketoacidosis is not the goal of a ketogenic diet. Keto diets were used for many years to treat diabetes and epilepsy. If done properly there is little to no ill effects of keto diets and some studies have shown that, at least short term bouts of, ketosis is not only normal but may have some benefit. The fact that you are confusing ketoacidosis with Atkins tells me you might work in healthcare, but aren't a doctor or have any medical training.

    I agree. Ketones are regulated with in a specific range in healthy people.

    This is a problem for people. Ketosis is one thing but the reason for ketoacidosis is cause by a lack of proper fat in the diet, not by a lack of carbs. It is 100% sustainable if done correctly, and 100% unsustanable if not.
  • ze_hombre
    ze_hombre Posts: 377 Member
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    Most people use it as a SHORT TERM diet to help jump start their weight loss. But the fact remains, for *most* people (me included) such a low carb diet is not sustainable for very long. One of my friends has been doing keto since November. Problem is, she eats well for a few days, then binges and has to re-set all over again. Kind of defeats the purpose. And as many have said, the minute you reintroduce carbs back into your diet, you will regain most (all) of the weight.

    Very true, but the same argument could be made about any diet plan out there. I have been out of ketosis for about a month now and have not gained any weight back. In fact I have lost a little bit more. Why? Because I got up off my butt and started exercising. Yes, that is why I got fat in the first place, but its near impossible to lose weight on a plan that would have taken me a year to get to the target weight.

    Keto (and any other diet plan out there) is only as good as the person using it. I feel bad for your friend, and I mean no offense when I say this, but if she binges on a diet that allows you to eat all the bacon, steak, and cheese you could want then she has self control issues and is likely to have the same problem with any kind of diet structure.
    So, sure, it'll work if you want to eat that way for the rest of your life. Personally, I enjoy my carbs and there are much more balanced ways of losing weight that acheive the same end result. I think it's better to find a "diet" that isn't really a diet, and represents a more realistic way of how you're going to eat for the rest of your life (for the most part) not just until you hit goal weight. It may take longer to lose the weight, but it's more likely that you'll keep the weight off long term if you choose to "diet" this way.

    Everything in moderation, and exercise. It's really not that hard, and doesn't have to be so strictly restrictive.

    Ok, hypothetical question. You need to lose 50-100 pounds. Would you be willing to give up carbs for six to eight months to lose the weight? While some people have done keto diets for life (there was a thread on the keto subreddit the other day and someone said they had been doing it for 12 years), the majority of people who are successful with keto use it for the bulk of the weight loss, and then switch to either a paleo diet or a more traditional FDA-food-pyramid-style diet and either incorporate exercise or count calories.
  • eastcar0linagirl
    eastcar0linagirl Posts: 3
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    Wow I didn't expect this many people to comment on the topic but all great info, Thanks Guys! Despite some of the negative comments, I will continue with the Keto Diet and hopefully see great results! :wink:
  • ze_hombre
    ze_hombre Posts: 377 Member
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    Wow I didn't expect this many people to comment on the topic but all great info, Thanks Guys! Despite some of the negative comments, I will continue with the Keto Diet and hopefully see great results! :wink:

    Keep calm and keto on! :)
  • dare2love81
    dare2love81 Posts: 928 Member
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    Ok, hypothetical question. You need to lose 50-100 pounds. Would you be willing to give up carbs for six to eight months to lose the weight? While some people have done keto diets for life (there was a thread on the keto subreddit the other day and someone said they had been doing it for 12 years), the majority of people who are successful with keto use it for the bulk of the weight loss, and then switch to either a paleo diet or a more traditional FDA-food-pyramid-style diet and either incorporate exercise or count calories.

    Well, I had 50 pounds to lose and while it took me longer than 8 months, it only took me 12 and I ate carbs (lots of them) every single day. So for me, it was worth it to take a little longer to lose the same amount of weight by eating pretty much what I want to eat vs. cutting a couple months off and eating no carbs.

    Like I said, it's a personal thing, but I really don't think it's sustainable for the general population. It works for the people who are extremely dedicated and either don't eat many carbs to begin with, or find that they don't miss them when they're gone.

    Personally, I love my breads and pastas so unless I develop a medical issue that causes me to give up carbs, keto is not in my game plan, especially when what I'm doing is working. And personally, I've found that I need the carbs to support my exercise lifestyle. Without them, I don't have enough energy to get through workouts. But again, that could just be me.
  • ze_hombre
    ze_hombre Posts: 377 Member
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    Personally, I love my breads and pastas so unless I develop a medical issue that causes me to give up carbs, keto is not in my game plan, especially when what I'm doing is working. And personally, I've found that I need the carbs to support my exercise lifestyle. Without them, I don't have enough energy to get through workouts. But again, that could just be me.

    Completely agree with this. I even made a comment earlier in the thread that running was the reason I went off keto and added carbs back into my diet. If I was just running a mile or two a day I wouldn't worry, but my goal is to get up to a 10k by this summer and I need to get my body conditioned back to handling carbs sooner than that, I will need to the carbs to complete that long of a run (although I am sure some hardcore ketoers are rolling their eyes at that comment). I did my first 5k on keto, and had no real ill effects, but the carbs make it easier and faster.

    The point I was trying to make is that a person who leads a 'normal' modern lifestyle (sedentary, maybe a few hours in the gym a week) does not need carbs. It doesn't take a lot of dedication or drive, the only time its really an issue is when you go to a restaurant or to a friend's house for dinner.
    Well, I had 50 pounds to lose and while it took me longer than 8 months, it only took me 12 and I ate carbs (lots of them) every single day. So for me, it was worth it to take a little longer to lose the same amount of weight by eating pretty much what I want to eat vs. cutting a couple months off and eating no carbs.

    First off, congrats! I lost my first 50 pounds in 5 months (maybe closer to 4-4.5), but I might have been a bit on the fringe so I rounded up for what i see from most others. The last 20 pounds took much longer, though. For someone who is distressed easily or isn't patient (like me), keto is great. At my height of weight loss I was losing a pound or two a day. It made it much easier to say no to a slice of bread when I was seeing visible results. If I had been in the boat of maybe seeing a pound or two a week, I probably would have lost heart and given up.

    I agree with you its a personal thing, but your reasoning behind rejecting keto was debatable. As this thread (and countless others like it) has shown, keto and LCHF diets are controversial. The science is conflicting, questionable, or downright bumpkiss, but for many the results speak for themselves.
  • leotardbanshee
    leotardbanshee Posts: 92 Member
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    i feel like a keto diet is a waste of time and a waste of animals. why not just start incorporating healthy habits in your life that you will keep forever rather than speeding up weight loss that you're just going to gain back anyway because you never learned appropriate eating habits?

    just my two cents as someone who wants to eat plants for the rest of my life.
  • ArtsyGeekette
    ArtsyGeekette Posts: 29 Member
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    Always consult your doctor about any major nutritional changes. Keto isn't for everyone. Just like veganism or religion isn't for everyone.

    Drink plenty of water and enjoy unsweetened tea and coffee.

    Avoid using a lot of artificial sweeteners even if low-carb/low glycemic. For some, it can kick you out of ketosis or stall weight loss.

    Get your electrolytes in if you start experiencing Keto flu.

    Eat your vegetables, fat and meats. Seafood and fish are good as well if you want some variety from chicken, pork and beef.

    Avocados can be your friend. Great nutritional powerhouse
    .
    If you are stalling, cut back on dairy and up your natural fats like coconut oil and animal fat.

    Don't be afraid of fiber but don't overdo it either. Try for 28-30 grams max a day.

    Take a multivitamin to help prevent some deficiency. Read the label for any hidden ingredients like wheat gluten or soy lecithin.

    Light exercise and strength training to help keep your endurance up. Even a daily walk helps boost mental/physical efforts.

    Don't Panic: You don't have to be on Keto forever. Just use this lifestyle to help you get the body and energy you want and find a mode of maintenance such as low carb and/or Paleo after you are done with your weight loss. Hey, you might be doing better on a modified Keto or Paleo plan. Everyone is different when it comes to nutritional needs. If we weren't, then there would be no allergies, intolerance, sensitivites or food avoidance.

    Be happy and ignore the comments of those who are misinformed or looking to be an attention troll.

    Feel free to do some investigating yourself on this. :)

    Good Luck to you!

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