Another (potential) strike against red meat

That's interesting. I read a study a while back that L-carnitine is good for your heart.

ETA: I think this is the one that I read.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/carnitine-l-000291.htm

Bacon is still better.

Bacon is red meat.

I like this part:

"Even after consuming a large amount of carnitine, vegans and vegetarians did not produce significant levels of TMAO, while omnivores did, according to the study in the current issue of the journal Nature Medicine."

So, even being part-time vegetarian has health benefits!

I like this part:

"Even after consuming a large amount of carnitine, vegans and vegetarians did not produce significant levels of TMAO, while omnivores did, according to the study in the current issue of the journal Nature Medicine."

So, even being part-time vegetarian has health benefits!

An omnivore IS a part-time vegetarian. :laugh:

We'll have none of that clever, sexy logic in here!

Awww....*sniffles* I mean technically...they are...*sniffles again*

I eat my steak with a bottle of red wine. This way I am assured that all bacteria is alcoholized and neautralized! :drinker:

Good time to be vegetarian.

The study specifically identifies "long-term (5-year) vegetarians and vegans" not just vegetarians and vegans.

i love red meat - bacteria and all -- I don't even wash my veggies

I eat my steak with a bottle of red wine. This way I am assured that all bacteria is alcoholized and neautralized! :drinker:

^^^This is brilliant! :laugh:

It does amuse me a little that the very same people who, in a fitness related thread, will be banging on about the importance of 'evidence' and 'research' dismiss 'evidence' and 'research' without any thought or argument, when it doesn't fit with their particular view on the world.

I don't care who does and doesn't eat read meat, for the record. But the dodgy logic on this thread entertains me.

Interesting. I have not actually seen that in this thread.

Speaking from a scientific standpoint, the study is actually quite well done, and the authors performed a number of additional observational and interventional studies that helped strengthen the presumptive but not proven association between carnitine consumption, the action of gut flora, and production of TMA and thereby TMAO, an established atherogen.

This is an intriguing study that supports an alternative mechanism of red meat consumption-associated atherogenesis, one that challenges the conventional wisdom. A degree of healthy skepticism is natural and indeed justified. As with any solitary study, there will be limitations due to study design as well as a need for follow-up studies to confirm/refute the findings, as well as to further elucidate the underlying mechanisms. But to simply discount it altogether, citing that it has flaws or limitations (which all studies have to some degree) or is as yet unsupported by other studies, is as equally erroneous as relying upon it as gospel.

Paradigm shifts in scientific thought occur all the time. When a study, however rigorously performed, significantly challenges the established thinking, it is generally greeted with a high degree of skepticism. As a case in point, the bacterial infection hypothesis of peptic ulcers was widely discounted at the time, but eventually was accepted as truth and earned the initial proponent(s) a Nobel Prize. More importantly, this new understanding of the mechanism of peptic ulcer formation led to a more rational management for peptic ulcers that avoided prolonged medical treatment or potentially risky surgery in favor of specific and effective treatment in the form of antibiotic therapy.

In the same way, if the weight of accumulated evidence builds in favor of the carnitine-bacterial production of TMAO hypothesis, this paradigm shift will spur new lines of research into the development of targeted therapies that specifically block the synthesis or action of TMAO. Accordingly, just as we now have statins to help manage high cholesterol, we may in the future have agents that can block TMAO. This isn't to advocate counteracting poor eating habits by taking pharmaceuticals, but in the future those carnivores/omnivores among us (myself included) may be able to enjoy that occasional steak while avoiding some of the negative health impacts that have been traditionally associated with its consumption.

Cheers!
-- yellowabc